Episódios
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Sales isn’t about persuasion but service, resilience, and growth. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, co-hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey welcome sales leader and former professional athlete Jeff Parris to explore the fundamental skills that separate elite salespeople from the rest. Drawing on decades of experience, Jeff shares three often-overlooked yet foundational competencies that drive sales success, and they’re not what you’d expect. Whether you're a VP of Sales building a high-performance team or a seller looking to level up, this episode delivers sharp insights on value selling, business acumen, and sales management excellence.
Key Topics DiscussedWhy great salespeople see themselves as servants first (approx. 04:00)
Jeff outlines why a “motivation to serve” mindset creates stronger client relationships and more consistent revenue generation.
Ego Drive vs. Ego Trip: Understanding the will to win without arrogance (approx. 07:30)
Learn how ego drive, a hunger to persuade for the buyer’s benefit, builds durable sales performance.
Curiosity as the gateway to sales mastery (approx. 10:15)
Jeff and Sean dig into why curiosity fuels continuous improvement and business acumen across every sales process.
How to coach the “accidental salesperson” into a top performer (approx. 11:45)
Kevin asks how people without formal sales backgrounds can thrive by developing the right mindset.
Sales leaders as talent architects: Building high-performance teams (approx. 02:00)
Key Quotes
Jeff draws on his athletic past to share what makes a sales team championship-worthy.
“Sales isn’t something we do to people, it’s something we do for people.”
— Jeff Parris (04:00)“The real goal of a great salesperson is: ‘Mr. Prospect, let me help you solve that problem.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (05:55)“Having the right people, with the right skills, in the right seats makes winning so much easier.”
— Kevin Lawson (03:36)“Curiosity leads to better solutions. Every interaction is a chance to learn and improve your craft.”
Additional Resources
— Jeff Parris (10:50)The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon & Brent Adamson https://a.co/d/2Zpnlq7
Connect with Jeff Parris on LinkedIn: Jeffrey Parris - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffparris/
Learn more at Vector Sales Advisors: https://vectorsalesadvisors.com/
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Evaluate your team (and yourself) on the “Service–Drive–Curiosity” Triad.
Start by asking three questions:Does this salesperson show a genuine desire to serve the customer’s goals?
Do they take pride in persuading with purpose, not just for commission but impact?
Are they consistently seeking to learn more about the customer, the industry, and their performance?
Use these questions in your next 1-on-1 or team coaching session to align your talent strategy with the kind of sales success that sustains revenue generation.
Why You Should Listen to This Episode
If you're tired of surface-level sales advice, this conversation will challenge your thinking and expand your toolkit. Jeff Parris brings clarity, conviction, and humility to what it means to lead with purpose in today’s complex B2B landscape. From building elite sales teams to refining your individual sales strategy, this episode is packed with practical wisdom for leaders, sellers, and anyone serious about mastering the craft of sales. Tune in now and discover the underestimated traits that drive extraordinary outcomes.
B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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When marketing professional services, the playbook isn’t the same as product sales, and today’s episode dives into exactly why. Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson are joined by returning guest Chris Spanier, CEO of Carpe Diem Consulting Group and host of the Practical Actionable Marketing podcast. This conversation tackles the nuances of sales strategies for service-based businesses, blending value selling with measurable marketing and aligning both functions for stronger revenue generation. If you're a business owner, consultant, or fractional executive trying to sharpen your sales processes and improve messaging, this episode is a goldmine of practical advice.
🔑 Key Topics Discussed[02:44] Why traditional product marketing doesn’t work for professional services—and how to adapt
[03:46] The importance of measuring marketing effectiveness and integrating KPIs into the sales process
[07:36] How to position and market services that don’t have tangible “speeds and feeds”
[08:28] Letting go of the fear of “giving away your secret sauce” in thought leadership content
[10:30] Systemizing stories and messaging to scale sales efforts across a growing team
[12:14] How to use lead nurturing email campaigns to drive engagement and trust over time
🗣️ Key Quotes
Sean O’Shaughnessey:
“Sales is a really expensive marketing arm if you're not doing really good marketing.”
— [05:59]Kevin Lawson:
“Tell how you win, how you help others win, and how they win when working with you—this is as key as anything in professional services.”
— [10:52]Chris Spanier:
“If you freely share value, people won’t take advantage of you—they’ll start trusting you. That’s the first step in real sales success.”
📚 Additional Resources
— [08:54]
“Marketing is half magic and half numbers. But the numbers—that’s where the proof comes in.”
— [04:14]B2B Sales Lab - https://b2b-sales-lab.com/
Practical Actionable Marketing Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/practical-actionable-marketing/id1697011310
Chris Spanier’s consulting firm: Carpe Diem Consulting Group (cdcg.us)
Contact Chris: [email protected]
LinkedIn: Chris Spanier
✅ A Significant Actionable Item from this PodcastSystemize your lead nurturing.
🎧 Why You Should Listen Now
Create a recurring, value-focused email campaign to maintain top-of-mind awareness. Whether your cadence is every three or six weeks, focus 80% on providing helpful insights and only 20% on pitching your services. Tracking measures email open rates and clicks, and then the behavior is aligned with site visits or follow-up outreach. This strategy turns occasional touchpoints into consistent momentum, critical for long-cycle sales in professional services.This episode is packed with strategic clarity and tactical insight for anyone selling invisible services. Whether you're a fractional executive, consultant, or marketing-savvy sales leader, you’ll leave with a more innovative approach to messaging, a stronger understanding of sales and marketing alignment, and actionable ways to drive revenue generation with business acumen. Tune in now and rethink how you build trust and momentum in your professional services pipeline.
B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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When sales professionals hit a roadblock, where do they turn? In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey unveil an exciting new initiative: B2B Sales Lab, a private peer networking community designed to support salespeople, sales managers, and business owners in their journey toward revenue generation excellence. This isn’t just a conversation; rather, we are offering an invitation to join something powerful. If you've ever felt alone in a tough sales challenge or wished for experienced advice on your messaging, sales processes, or strategy, this episode is for you.
Key Topics Discussed
(00:00) Why selling isn’t easy and how sales professionals can benefit from a support network
(00:39) The creation and mission of the B2B Sales Lab community
(01:42) How the platform fosters peer-to-peer learning without judgment or pressure
(02:58) The importance of community in developing strong sales strategies and business acumen
(03:54) Guardrails that make this space safer and more effective than LinkedIn or Facebook groups
(05:00) Why there's a membership fee—and why the first three months are free
Key Quotes
Sean O'Shaughnessey (00:01:00): "We're creating a community where people can get together, bounce ideas off each other without fear—just designed to help."
Kevin Lawson (00:02:58): "It’s unreasonable to think your small sales team has all the answers. But it’s completely reasonable to find a community that does."
Sean O'Shaughnessey (00:04:16): "If you're not a salesperson or sales leader, you're not getting in. This isn't about selling to each other. It’s about growing together."
Additional Resources
B2B Sales Lab Information & Registration: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-lab
(Free for the first three months with no obligation.)
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Join the B2B Sales Lab.
If you've ever wished you had a sounding board for a tough sales call, a creative partner to work through messaging, or a peer to validate your sales strategy, this is your moment. Visit the link in the show notes and apply to join the B2B Sales Lab. The first three months are free, giving you access to experienced sales minds, curated content on value selling and revenue management, and a judgment-free environment to grow your sales acumen. Don’t wait for your next deal to fall through; build your support system today.Why You Should Listen
This episode is a call to action for sales professionals serious about growth. If you’re navigating complex sales cycles, seeking stronger messaging, or simply want a community that understands your world, the B2B Sales Lab might be the resource you've been missing. Kevin and Sean, both seasoned in sales leadership and sales management, offer not just insights but an entire framework to elevate your career. Listen now to learn how to take the next step toward sustainable sales success—and connect with others on the same journey.Join the B2B Sales Lab community at https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-lab. We look forward to helping you grow your revenue!
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey are joined by veteran fractional VP of Sales, John McLeod. Together, they dive into a critical topic for today’s sales leaders: embracing artificial intelligence tools without compromising your value proposition, messaging, or sales processes. John brings deep expertise in sales management, business acumen, and revenue generation strategies, offering a measured approach to evaluating sales tech, especially AI solutions, through a risk-and-reward lens. Whether you're a business owner, sales manager, or BDR excited about AI, this conversation grounds you in practical wisdom.
Key Topics Discussed
The Real Risk of AI in Sales (00:01:22): How overreliance on untrained AI tools can misrepresent your brand and do more harm than good.
Sales Productivity vs. Organizational Efficiency (00:02:01): Why the focus shouldn’t just be on doing more faster, but also on syncing with your company's value selling model.
Three Essential AI Use Cases in Sales (00:03:25): Research, qualification, and outreach—and why each comes with its own operational risk.
The Ethical Use of AI and Messaging Integrity (00:07:43): Why maintaining consistent messaging across AI-enabled tools is essential to preserving brand integrity and revenue management.
Training AI for Sales Value (00:10:00): How smart prompt engineering and structured inputs drive better outcomes from generative AI tools.
Key Quotes
John McLeod (00:05:27):
“AI tools are meant to be trained. The biggest risk is: are they in fact supporting your unique and distinctive value proposition and holding true to that?”Sean O'Shaughnessey (00:11:38):
“You won’t lose your job to AI—but you might lose it to another salesperson who knows how to use AI more effectively.”Kevin Lawson (00:09:40):
“When you introduce AI and efficiency, that naturally raises the bar of expectation for performance. What is the new normal when you get there?”Additional Resources
John McLeod’s LinkedIn Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmcleod1/
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Train Your AI with Purpose: Don’t just “plug and play” AI tools. Take the time to structure your inputs and refine your prompts so that the tool reflects your value, not just generic sales content. Spend time A/B testing different approaches to ensure messaging aligns with your company's strategic sales positioning. Start today by reviewing your most recent outreach generated by AI and ask: “Does this truly represent our value?” If not, retrain your prompts before using them again.Why You Should Listen Now
If you’ve ever been tempted by the next great sales tool or AI platform promising instant leads and effortless sales success, this episode will recalibrate your thinking. John McLeod delivers candid insights on balancing tech adoption with strategic discipline. With Sean and Kevin steering the conversation, this discussion is rich with real-world experience in sales management, messaging, and revenue generation. Tune in now to stay ahead without losing what makes your company valuable.To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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In this high-impact episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey welcome sales acceleration expert Patrick O'Donnell to tackle one of the toughest challenges facing small business CEOs: hiring and onboarding top-performing sales talent. Together, they dive deep into proven sales strategies that help CEOs find strong candidates and keep them engaged, successful, and driving revenue. If you’ve ever hired a salesperson who didn’t work out, or you’re planning to hire your first, this conversation is your roadmap to sales success. From creating a robust onboarding plan to integrating soft skills training and cultural alignment, this episode is packed with value-selling insights you can apply immediately.
Key Topics Discussed:
[00:01:00] Why small business CEOs struggle to attract and retain top salespeople
[00:03:00] Patrick’s proven hiring and onboarding process for sales roles
[00:05:10] The importance of structured 30-60-90 day plans and Sean’s GUTS framework
[00:07:00] Kevin’s NASA Plan for onboarding: A granular, hourly approach to early success
[00:10:00] The role of soft skills and professional development in retaining talent
[00:11:50] A lighthearted look at entrepreneurship: Why Patrick bought a historic Indianapolis tavern
Key Quotes:
"They're in such a hurry to take the sales hat off their head that they hire the first person who looks okay on the surface. That rushed approach almost always ends poorly."
– Patrick O'Donnell [00:02:06]"I hand every new rep a GUTS document—Getting Up To Speed. It’s a 30-60-90 plan that clearly spells out what they need to accomplish. They can be ahead, but they can’t fall behind."
– Sean O'Shaughnessey [00:05:10]"Most small business owners think they have a plan because it's in their head. But if it’s not written down, it doesn’t exist."
– Kevin Lawson [00:07:29]"We want every new hire to be the most professional person in the company, because it's their job to make everyone around them better."
– Sean O'Shaughnessey [00:10:35]Additional Resources:
LinkedIn profile for Patrick O'Donnell https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickwodonnell/
Soft skills training programs referenced by Sean for onboarding enrichment
GUTS (Getting Up To Speed) framework and NASA Plan discussed during onboarding best practices
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:
Implement a Written 30-60-90 Onboarding Plan with a Two-Week NASA Schedule.
Salespeople need clarity to succeed. Whether you're a first-time sales manager or a seasoned executive, stop relying on verbal plans or “tribal knowledge.” Create a written 30-60-90 onboarding plan that details expectations, milestones, and key outcomes. For the first two weeks, apply the NASA method: a daily, hour-by-hour schedule that aligns the new hire with every department, cultural cue, and technical requirement. Doing so sets a strong foundation for success and dramatically reduces early turnover.Summary Paragraph:
If you’re serious about improving your sales management, elevating your sales processes, and building a team that drives real revenue generation, this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is essential listening. Kevin, Sean, and Patrick break down what too many business owners get wrong—and how you can get it right. Whether you're scaling a team or hiring your first rep, these insights around onboarding, messaging, and business acumen will accelerate your journey toward consistent sales success. Press play now and walk away with tools you can use today.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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In this week’s episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey are joined by the “Elder Statesman” of fractional sales management: John Lee. With nearly four decades of experience and a deep track record of helping companies hire top-performing sales professionals, John shares a masterclass in sales hiring strategy. Whether you’re scaling from a two-person team to ten or trying to avoid costly hiring mistakes, this episode delivers practical, field-tested advice on building elite sales teams, strengthening your sales processes, and aligning talent with company culture.
Don't miss this conversation if you're committed to improving your sales success through smarter hiring, better business acumen, and scalable revenue generation.
Key Topics Discussed:
The Hiring Mindset for Growth Companies (00:01:45)
Why hiring rock stars—not warm bodies—matters and how John filters for high performers.
From First Hire to Scaling a Team (00:04:44)
CEOs and sales leaders must ask the evolving questions when hiring their 3rd, 5th, or 10th rep.
Psychographics, Not Just Resumes (00:05:24)
How John builds candidate profiles that match top performers using behavior and motivation, not just skills.
Parallel Sales and Hiring Processes (00:08:00)
Why a successful sales hiring process mirrors your value selling strategy—with defined steps, assessments, and clear messaging.
Avoiding Common Hiring Mistakes (00:11:43)
The critical danger of hiring salespeople who are better at selling themselves than your solution.
Top 3 Rules for Hiring Sales Talent (00:13:33)
John’s unfiltered checklist for hiring decisions that fuel revenue growth and protect your sales culture.
Key Quotes:
John Lee: “Don’t hire someone who can’t show they’ve been successful—and don’t hire someone who doesn’t fit your culture.” (00:13:57)
Sean O’Shaughnessey: “A salesperson might not be able to sell your product to save their life—but they’re often great at selling themselves. That’s a trap for business owners.” (00:11:55)
Kevin Lawson: “You talk about hiring the way you talk about sales infrastructure—it’s all about process, fit, and purpose.” (00:07:42)
Additional Resources Mentioned:
OMG Sales Candidate Assessment (Objective Management Group) – John’s preferred tool for evaluating candidate sales DNA and fit.
LinkedIn: John Lee - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnleeportlandoregon/
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:
Design a Hiring Process Like a Sales Process
Treat your hiring efforts with the same rigor as your sales process. Start by defining a psychographic profile based on your top performers. Use structured assessments to evaluate “sales DNA” and focus interviews on demonstrated success, not just confidence. Then, make cultural fit a deal-breaker. Great hires aren’t just competent—they’re aligned with your mission, methods, and team dynamics.Summary Paragraph:
This episode is essential listening for sales leaders and business owners looking to scale their teams without sacrificing culture, performance, or momentum. John Lee brings a rare mix of seasoned sales management expertise and real-world hiring acumen to the table. If you want to improve revenue generation through smarter hiring and better sales strategies, you'll find actionable insights packed into every minute. Don’t settle for average; build a sales team that drives success. Tune in now.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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In this powerful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey are joined once again by Steve Caton, CEO of Altezza Solutions, for a thought-provoking conversation that zeroes in on one of the toughest decisions in sales leadership: when to sell, when to coach, and when to hire. Whether you’re a business owner, VP of Sales, or a player-coach juggling a quota and a team, this episode brings clarity to the strategic inflection point where growth hinges on letting go. With frank discussion, lived experience, and tactical advice, Kevin, Sean, and Steve guide you through the complex terrain of sales management, revenue generation, and scaling your team without sacrificing results.
Key Topics Discussed:
[00:01:58] The pros and cons of player-coach sales roles, and why this model often fails without intentional strategy
[00:05:34] How to create a psychologically safe sales environment where learning from failure drives sales success
[00:07:11] Steve Caton’s personal transition from sales operator to CEO—and how it triggered exponential business growth
[00:09:20] The difference between hiring to "swim faster" and hiring to scale—how business acumen guides the decision
[00:13:00] Real-world use cases for fractional sales roles to test new markets or offerings without disrupting core revenue streams
Key Quotes:
Kevin Lawson [00:04:57]: “Sometimes you have to let people fail. You can’t push them into failure, but you do have to give them the room to learn. The challenge is, as a leader, you're still accountable for that failure.”
Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:04:01]: “It’s much easier to do one thing well. Let great salespeople sell and great managers manage—don’t dilute either role.”
Steve Caton [00:08:30]: “I made the decision to stop selling before I could afford it. Why? Because I knew the payoff would be big. Sometimes, you just have to invest in your business to grow.”
Kevin Lawson [00:11:34]: “A sales process with control metrics, plus intentional feedback loops, informs exactly how and where your business should grow.”
Additional Resources:
Steve Caton https://www.linkedin.com/in/scaton/
Altezza Solutions: www.atezzasolutions.com
Book Mentioned: Great by Choice by Jim Collins (for the “bullets before cannonballs” strategy) https://a.co/d/1j6R6vt
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:
Reevaluate your team structure and decide: are you scaling or surviving?
If you're a business owner or sales leader wearing multiple hats, it's time to assess whether you're enabling growth or capping it. Consider where your time is most valuable—rainmaking, coaching, or closing—and invest in building the right team around you. Start with fractional or part-time hires to test new roles or markets, then double down when the data supports it.
Closing Summary:
This episode cuts through the noise around sales team building with a refreshing mix of vulnerability, experience, and strategic depth. Whether you’re weighing your first sales hire or deciding to step out of the player-coach role, Two Tall Guys Talking Sales delivers real-world sales strategies that help you align your messaging, sales processes, and revenue management decisions with long-term growth. Don’t miss this one—it’s 15 minutes of business-building insight that could change the trajectory of your sales organization. Hit play now and discover how letting go might be the smartest way to grow.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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What does it take to scale a sales organization in today’s unpredictable business environment? In this dynamic episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Sean O'Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson welcome back Steve Caton, CEO of Altezza Solutions, to unpack the nuances of scaling sales teams, especially through the power of fractional sales professionals. Together, they explore the critical role that sales processes, sales management, and business acumen play in enabling organizations to grow without overspending or compromising performance. Whether you’re navigating the "zero to one" phase or planning your expansion from one rep to five, this episode offers a roadmap for smart, sustainable revenue generation.
Key Topics DiscussedZero to One vs. One to One Hundred: Two Models for Scaling Sales Teams (00:01:14)
Kevin and Steve outline the difference between launching your first rep and accelerating team expansion, with a focus on structured growth.
Fractional Salespeople as a Low-Risk Growth Strategy (00:02:45)
Steve explains how the fractional model supports learning, experimentation, and ROI without overcommitting resources too early.
Determining the Right Time to Expand Territories or Add Headcount (00:04:10)
The team discusses key signals—like activity level, lead flow, and deal volume—that indicate when it’s time to grow.
Using Leading Indicators vs. Lagging Indicators in Sales Management (00:06:16)
Steve shares the importance of measuring inputs (calls, meetings, proposals) over outputs (closed deals) to ensure predictable scale.
The Power of Process-Driven Selling for Sales Success (00:13:08)
Key Quotes
Sean and Steve emphasize why experienced sales pros rely on systems, not improvisation, and why process must precede people.
Kevin Lawson (00:01:34):
“Think hockey stick versus gradual—zero to one is about getting that first good hire. That’s when you unlock real scale potential.”Steve Caton (00:02:45):
“Start small, see what works, then expand. That’s the foundation of scalable revenue—and the fractional model makes that possible without spending a crazy amount of money.”Sean O'Shaughnessey (00:08:00):
“Sales is about finding the customer that is going to buy—that’s not just a marketing thing, that’s a sales thing.”Steve Caton (00:13:08):
Additional Resources Connect with Steve Caton on LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/in/scaton/)
“Process comes before people. If there’s no process, your reps will build one—and that distracts them from actually selling.”Explore Altezza Solutions: www.altezzasolutions.com
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Use leading indicators—not just closed deals—to decide when it’s time to grow your sales team. Many companies scale reactively, hiring after success arrives. But Steve Caton challenges leaders to evaluate the activity level of their reps—calls made, meetings scheduled, deals created—to make data-driven decisions before hitting a bottleneck. If your top performer is maxing out their productive hours, it’s time to split territories, not overload. Review your leading indicators this week and see where your next growth step should begin.
Why You Should ListenThis episode is a must-listen for founders, CEOs, and sales leaders trying to build smarter, not just bigger. With deep insight into the value of fractional sales professionals, the importance of sales strategies, and how to use data for effective revenue management, Steve Caton offers a practical, grounded view of what scalable sales success looks like. If you're serious about growing your team without growing your headaches, hit play and take notes.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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When it comes to holding firm on pricing, many salespeople stumble at the finish line, undermining their value and margin in pursuit of a quick win. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey explore the essential topic of value selling, especially when offering a premium-priced solution. They break down how business acumen, sales strategy, and relationship-based selling contribute to sales success—and how to confidently command the price your product deserves. If you’ve ever been told you’re “too expensive,” this is your playbook for holding the line and still closing the deal.
Key Topics DiscussedWhy customers buy more than just your product—they buy your company and you (00:01:00)
The danger of sending a quote without a conversation (00:02:21)
How sales reps can create momentum in late-stage deals by previewing terms early (00:03:00)
Breaking away from “feeds and speeds” and focusing on business outcomes (00:05:00)
Real-world coaching example: winning a deal despite being $9,000 more expensive (00:08:25)
The importance of sales process alignment with customer learning styles (00:10:48)
Key Quotes
“Your customers are not just buying your product—they're buying your company, and they're buying the wisdom of the salesperson.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:01:00)“Don’t just throw a document on their desk that says, ‘here’s my price.’ That’s not value selling. That’s transactional noise.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:03:21)“I told her: thank them for the feedback. Tell them you can’t meet the price because you’re delivering something of higher value—and she won the deal.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:09:01)“If you’re always responding with a discount, you’re not putting forward the confidence that your product actually delivers value.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:10:28)
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Stop emailing quotes—start previewing them. Before sending out another proposal or quote, schedule a call or meeting with your prospect to review the terms and value proposition. Use that time to reinforce the business impact of your solution and clarify any remaining concerns. This approach increases close rates and reduces last-minute pricing objections, protecting revenue and margin.
SummaryIn today’s ultra-competitive B2B environment, salespeople must do more than deliver specs—they must deliver confidence. This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales arms you with a clear, repeatable strategy for commanding premium pricing through value selling. If you're serious about improving your sales management, sales processes, and revenue generation tactics, then this 15-minute episode could be the most profitable quarter-hour of your week. Tune in now and elevate your ability to win—without discounting.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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In this dynamic episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey welcome Canadian SalesXceleration expert Steve Wittal for an in-depth look into the foundations of effective sales strategies. Steve brings decades of experience in startup advisory, sales management, and business growth, sharing a robust framework that simplifies complex growth challenges into four digestible buckets: desirability, clarity, predictability, and deliverability. If you’re a business leader looking to strengthen your sales processes, sharpen your messaging, or improve revenue generation, this conversation is a goldmine.
Key Topics Discussed
The Power of Leadership in Change Management (~01:02)
Steve opens by explaining why leadership is the starting point for any growth initiative, especially when change is involved.
The Four Buckets Framework for Growth (~03:00)
Steve outlines his method for diagnosing and resolving growth issues by focusing on four pillars: desirability, clarity, predictability, and deliverability.
Desirability and Understanding the Customer’s Pain (~04:00)
Why identifying whether your product is a “must-have” or “nice-to-have” is critical to sales success.
The Importance of Clarity and Quantifying the Cost of Inaction (~06:39)
Sean and Steve unpack how clarity in messaging and value proposition can move buyers from indecision to action.
Predictability, Scalability, and Sales Playbooks (~09:20)
How aligning your sales process with the customer’s buying journey enables scale and drives predictable revenue.
Deliverability and the Voice of the Customer (~10:50)
Steve emphasizes the importance of retention, early wins, and referrals as indicators that your solution truly delivers.
Key Quotes
Steve Wittal: “A problem well-defined is a problem half-solved. Before we prescribe, we have to truly understand.” (~02:46)
Kevin Lawson: “When you’ve dotted all those i’s, it makes you a market-facing product. That’s how you achieve market fit.” (~13:25)
Sean O'Shaughnessey: “When a customer comes to you and says, ‘Can you help me solve this?’ — that’s sales nirvana.” (~08:35)
Additional Resources
Connect with Steve Wittal on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevewittal/
Steve’s email: Steve Wittal
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Audit Your Sales Strategy Through the Four Buckets.
Take a moment to evaluate your organization’s performance across Steve’s four key areas:Desirability: Is your product essential or optional to your buyers?
Clarity: Can your team articulate your value proposition in a way that resonates with prospects and highlights the cost of inaction?
Predictability: Do you have a repeatable sales process that aligns with how your customers buy?
Deliverability: Are you consistently delivering on promises and capturing client feedback to validate success?
This self-assessment will uncover gaps in your current sales approach and point to immediate areas for improvement.
Summary
Whether you're leading a startup or managing a growing sales team, this episode delivers a concise yet powerful framework for achieving sales success. Steve Wittal’s “Four Buckets” offer practical, business acumen–driven insights that will help you reframe your growth strategy and improve every stage of your sales process. If you're serious about improving revenue generation and becoming a trusted advisor in your client relationships, don’t miss this episode. Tune in now and transform your approach to value selling.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey sit down with John Spencer, a seasoned sales leader and founder of Clear Direction Sales Development. Together, they explore the crucial differences between growth and scale, particularly in organizations leaning too heavily on a superstar seller. If you're leading a sales organization that relies on one standout performer—or trying to replicate success across your sales team—this is a must-listen conversation packed with real-world examples and hard-earned wisdom. The trio unpacks why scalable sales processes and strong business acumen matter far more than a single heroic quota-crusher and how to transform your entire team into a consistent revenue-generation engine.
Key Topics Discussed[00:01:20] The difference between growth and scale—and why one without the other creates risk
[00:02:30] How over-reliance on a “super seller” can mask weak sales infrastructure
[00:04:00] Why building a team of B players can be the key to sales success and organizational growth
[00:06:00] Why your people strategy outweighs even the best sales tech or product
[00:09:00] How aligning your company around Ideal Customer Profiles (ICPs) and value selling accelerates performance
[00:11:00] Inspiring second-tier sellers to level up—and the systems that make that possible
Key Quotes
Kevin Lawson [00:00:00]: “What do you do when you’ve got a standout salesperson and you’re trying to scale? Today’s the day to take notes and learn from best practices—and avoid the ones that put you in a bind.”
John Spencer [00:01:50]: “Growth is often just out-hustling the competition. Scale is when your sales management creates repeatable success across the team.”
Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:04:00]: “You can’t build a company on nothing but A players. You need B players who can perform with strong sales processes—that’s how you truly scale.”
John Spencer [00:07:24]: “When one salesperson becomes the center of gravity, the whole company starts working for them. That doesn’t scale.”
John Spencer [00:10:08]: “Let’s align the organization to help the salesperson like they’re a mini-CEO. That’s how we build momentum and create sustainable revenue management.”
Additional ResourcesConnect with John Spencer: LinkedIn Profile – John Spencer (https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnspencerinc/)
Company: Clear Direction Sales Development
Contact: Direct phone, email, and Calendly available on John’s LinkedIn
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Stop idolizing your top seller—start systematizing their success.
Why You Should Listen to This Episode
Identify what makes your A player successful, then document and distribute that knowledge across your sales organization. Build a repeatable process that supports B players in becoming high performers. Use Ideal Customer Profiles (ICPs), clear value propositions, and structured onboarding to reduce variance and elevate the middle 60% of your team.If your company is stuck in a “hero model” of selling—where success depends on a single superstar—this episode will open your eyes to what’s truly holding your sales strategy back. With practical insights on aligning your team, refining your messaging, and unlocking scalable revenue generation, John Spencer joins Kevin and Sean in a candid conversation that blends military-grade leadership with sales precision. Whether you're a CEO, VP of Sales, or just trying to level up your sales team, this episode is your blueprint for transitioning from hustle-based growth to process-driven scale. Don’t miss it—press play and rethink what it means to grow.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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As Q2 kicks into full gear, it's time to pause and reflect—are you ahead, on pace, or falling behind on your sales targets? In this insightful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey unpack one of a sales leader's most crucial yet often overlooked responsibilities: knowing your numbers. With equal parts practical advice and strategic vision, this conversation walks you through the foundational metrics every sales leader should track—customer acquisition cost, average transaction size, support staffing ratios, and more. Whether you're forecasting growth, scaling headcount, or simply trying to stay ahead of the competition, this episode is your playbook for building a metrics-driven sales organization that thrives.
Key Topics DiscussedWhy "Keeping Score" Matters in Sales Leadership (00:00)
Kevin kicks off the episode with a strong analogy to competitive sports, emphasizing that tracking performance metrics is non-negotiable for sales leaders aiming to grow.
Building a Forward-Looking Sales Metrics Matrix (00:01)
Kevin walks through how to build a simple but powerful matrix using transaction volume, average deal size, and headcount to visualize both current performance and future goals.
Calculating Average Transaction Size and Quota Coverage (00:02)
Learn how to reverse-engineer quota achievement by dividing sales goals by average transaction size to determine activity targets for your team.
Understanding Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) (00:05)
Sean breaks down the components of CAC and explains why every sales leader must know this figure to scale sustainably and profitably.
Debunking the “Geopolitics Are Killing Sales” Excuse (00:09)
Sean challenges the notion that global events are valid reasons for missed quotas, reinforcing that internal execution and strategic clarity are what really matter.
Aligning Sales Activity with Strategic Growth Goals (00:12)
Key Quotes
Kevin closes the episode with a systems-thinking approach to leadership, showing how small adjustments in metrics, team development, and compensation can drive exponential growth.
Kevin Lawson: "Keeping score is important. Really important. I'm talking like March Madness. Final game. Important." (00:00)
Sean O’Shaughnessey: "If it takes you more than 20 minutes to figure out this information, then you need a better bookkeeping system." (00:06)
Sean O’Shaughnessey: "You need to know what your average deal size is. You need to know how long it takes you to get a customer. Your CRM should be solving that." (00:07)
Kevin Lawson: "We want to gently steer our company towards our goals. So the thinking about this process is all about knowing your numbers." (00:12)
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Build Your Sales Metrics Matrix This Week
Episode Summary
Start with your annual revenue goal. Break it down by the number of salespeople, average transaction value, and number of transactions needed per rep per month. Then layer in your customer acquisition cost, support staffing ratios, and expected margin. This matrix becomes your roadmap for scaling intelligently—whether you're doubling headcount, expanding territory, or just trying to hit a consistent quota.In a world of uncertainty, Two Tall Guys Talking Sales reminds us that clarity comes from data. Kevin and Sean deliver a compelling, no-nonsense discussion about how to take control of your revenue engine by genuinely understanding the math behind your sales motion. Whether you’re a CEO, VP of Sales, or just starting to lead a team, this episode offers an essential primer on aligning your operations to your goals. Don’t miss this one—it might be the wake-up call your spreadsheet has been waiting for.
👉 Hit play now to future-proof your sales strategy by learning how to know your numbers like a pro.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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In this insightful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey welcome business intermediary Tom Gottlieb of Berkshire Hathaway. Tom brings decades of experience in buying, selling, and valuing businesses across the Midwest. The conversation dives deep into what truly drives the value of a company—and how sales leaders and business owners alike can prepare their organizations for a future transition. Whether you’re a business owner considering a sale or a sales executive interested in how sales performance impacts company valuation, this episode delivers invaluable guidance. It’s part education, part strategy session, and all high-value insight.
Key Topics DiscussedThe Three Core Approaches to Business Valuation – Asset, income, and comparative market methods explained simply and practically. (04:22)
Preparing a Business for Sale: Lessons from Real Estate – Why “curb appeal” matters for companies and how to improve it over time. (07:36)
What Buyers Want: Sales Growth, Consistency, and Processes – How prospective buyers assess the health of a business beyond profit margins. (09:00)
The Hidden Red Flag: When the Owner Is the Only Salesperson – Risks for buyers and strategies for mitigating dependency on the founder. (13:31)
Leveraging AI to Gain Competitive Market Intelligence – How technology is transforming buyer and seller knowledge in M&A. (11:32)
Key Quotes
Tom Gottlieb: “Every buyer wants the same thing: a business that works without the owner. That means strong processes, steady sales growth, and predictable profitability.” (09:01)
Additional Resources
Sean O’Shaughnessey: “So if you don’t want to stick around after the sale, then train your sales team now—and watch the value of your company go up.” (14:16)
Kevin Lawson: “Tom, every time we talk, I walk away with something new. This episode is no exception.” (11:31)
Tom Gottlieb: “Buyers rarely show up with a bag of cash. There’s a timeline. A deal doesn’t close in a weekend—it’s often a year-long journey.” (07:00)Connect with Tom Gottlieb on LinkedIn
Tom’s Email: [email protected]
Direct Contact: (562) 225-4567
Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Professional Realty – Business Brokerage Services
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Start documenting your sales process today.
Why You Should Listen to This Episode
If you are a business owner—or advise one—and the majority of revenue hinges on a single salesperson (often the owner themselves), that’s a red flag for any future buyer. Begin formalizing your sales process, distribute responsibilities among team members, and track sales metrics consistently. This not only improves operational resilience but significantly enhances company value in a potential sale.Selling a business isn’t just about profit—it’s about perception, process, and preparedness. In this episode, Kevin and Sean extract wisdom from Tom Gottlieb that applies to any B2B organization considering an exit in the next 3 to 10 years. It’s packed with strategic takeaways, sales insights, and behind-the-scenes truths about what makes a business attractive to buyers. Whether you're a founder, an investor, or a sales leader, this episode will reshape how you think about long-term value creation. Tune in and learn how to make your business sell-ready—starting now.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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Welcome back to Two Tall Guys Talking Sales with hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey. In this episode, the tall guys dive deep into one of the most critical yet commonly broken elements in any sales organization: the sales funnel. Whether you're stuck with a clunky three-stage process that tells you nothing or overwhelmed with 35 micro-stages that only confuse your reps, Sean and Kevin offer a practical guide to rethinking and rebuilding your pipeline strategy. Packed with metaphors (yes, even superhero ones) and sharp analysis, this episode will leave you inspired to take a hard look at your funnel—and finally fix it.
Key Topics DiscussedWhy Most Sales Funnels Are Broken (00:00:45)
Sean unpacks the common pitfalls in how companies define and manage their sales stages, including oversimplified or overly complex CRM setups.
Defining Sales Stages Based on the Buyer Journey (00:04:30)
Kevin emphasizes the need to align your sales stages with how buyers actually buy—not how your company wants to sell.
How Many Sales Stages Are Too Many? (00:05:00)
The guys explore the delicate balance between not enough insight and too much complexity in stage design.
The Case for Multiple Pipelines (00:08:00)
When does it make sense to separate budgetary planning pipelines from active sales discussions? Kevin and Sean explain.
What a Healthy Funnel Actually Looks Like (00:10:45)
Sean introduces a visual and mathematical approach to evaluating whether your funnel is properly shaped—and what to do if it’s not.
Key Quotes“The Avengers became a team, not just Iron Man. You need to have a team. Even superhero salespeople like to have support.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:02:50)
“Fixing the funnel starts visually. Does it fit well on one sheet of paper? If not, you’ve already lost the battle for clarity.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:04:45)
“Stages should be built to qualify someone into the next step—not just to log an activity. Every transition should represent progress, not busyness.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:06:15)
“If your pipeline doesn’t look like a funnel, then you’re either wasting time or losing deals. Probably both.”
Additional Resources Referenced
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:12:20)Previous episodes featuring CMO Amy: Deep dives into top-of-funnel strategies, lead quality, and the marketing–sales handoff.
https://sites.libsyn.com/458454/site/measuring-marketing-success-with-amy-connor-of-cmo-onloan
https://sites.libsyn.com/458454/site/amy-connor-discusses-salespeople-vs-lead-generation-are-you-using-your-team-wisely
"Chasing Butterflies vs. Building a Garden" episode: A useful metaphorical framework for thinking about inbound sales strategies.
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
https://sites.libsyn.com/458454/site/sales-prospecting-are-you-chasing-leads-or-cultivating-success
Audit Your Sales Funnel for Shape and Stage Effectiveness
Summary
Pull a report from your CRM and visualize your current pipeline by number of deals and total revenue per stage. Does it actually look like a funnel? If it doesn’t, dig deeper. Are your stages aligned with your buyer’s journey? Are reps stuck in certain stages too long? UThis snapshot identifiesgaps and opportunities for stage redefinition or activity refinement.Whether you’re managing a sales team or closing deals yourself, this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales gives you the blueprint to diagnose and repair a misaligned funnel. Sean and Kevin combine humor, hard truths, and highly actionable insights to help you bring structure and sanity back to your sales process. If you're ready to create a pipeline that reflects how buyers buy—and helps your team win more deals—this episode is a must-listen.
🎧 Listen now and take the first step in fixing your funnel for good.
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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As the first quarter comes to a close, sales leaders and professionals must assess their performance and gear up for the challenges and opportunities ahead in Q2. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey break down the essential strategies for both those ahead of plan and those struggling to catch up. From refining your sales process to maximizing customer relationships, this discussion is packed with insights that can help you dominate your numbers in the coming months.
Key Topics Discussed:The Reality of Q1 Performance and the Need for Urgency (00:00:31)
Why waiting until Q2 to fix Q1 is too late, and how to position yourself for success early in the year.
Strategies for Those Ahead of Plan (00:01:00)
How to maintain momentum, close key deals, and ensure a strong Q4 while staying ahead of quota.
Critical Steps for Those Behind on Quota (00:04:01)
Conducting a win-loss analysis, diagnosing deal flow issues, and fine-tuning lead generation strategies.
The Importance of CRM Usage and Sales Efficiency (00:06:35)
How sales leaders and reps can maximize their CRM to drive efficiency and uncover missed opportunities.
Pricing Strategies and Customer Engagement (00:09:13)
Why now is the time to strengthen relationships with your top customers and confidently raise prices to improve margins.
Key Quotes:
Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:01:32): “You have a chance at greatness if you are even or ahead at the end of Q1. Now’s the time to double down and make sure you close deals that will set you up for an incredible year.”
Kevin Lawson (00:05:00): “Everyone has a leads problem. Either you don’t have enough, they’re not the right fit, or you’re not communicating your value effectively. That’s where the real focus should be.”
Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:11:00): “Your best customers likely don’t know you as well as you think. Strengthening those relationships can open up new revenue streams and prevent you from falling behind.”
Additional Resources:Free sales planning tools, lead scoring resources, and ideal client profiles available on Kevin and Sean’s websites.
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:
https://newsales.expert/
https://www.lighthousesalesadvisors.com/Perform a rapid win-loss analysis on your Q1 deals. If you’re ahead, identify the behaviors and strategies that got you there and double down. If you’re behind, determine whether the issue is a lack of quality leads, poor messaging, or weak follow-through. Adjust your sales approach immediately so you can enter Q2 with a clear plan to recover lost ground.
Summary:
Whether you’re ahead of plan, right on track, or scrambling to catch up, the strategies discussed in this episode will help you refine your sales process and make Q2 a success. Sean and Kevin share actionable insights on deal flow, CRM optimization, pricing strategies, and customer engagement that will set you up for a strong year. Don’t let another quarter slip away—tune in now to get ahead, stay ahead, and finish the year on top!
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment:
https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
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As a sales leader, are you coaching your team for the long haul, or are you scrambling in the final weeks of the quarter? In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey break down the difference between regular season and postseason play—whether in sports or sales. They explore why last-minute Hail Mary strategies can be damaging, how to manage time, and the importance of consistent coaching effectively. With March Madness and The Masters as the backdrop, this conversation is packed with insights to help you refine your sales approach and ensure your team is always in winning form.
Key Topics DiscussedThe Sales Tournament Mentality (00:02:00) – What sales teams can learn from March Madness and The Masters, and why only one team wins while the rest lose.
Building a Winning Sales Team (00:03:30) – How business owners can prepare their sales teams to perform under pressure by ensuring the right people are in the right seats.
The Role of Sales Coaching (00:05:00) – Why sales leaders must incorporate skills development into every sales meeting instead of just reviewing the pipeline.
The Pitfalls of End-of-Quarter Desperation (00:07:50) – How last-minute discounting and rushed deals create long-term problems and train customers to buy at a discount.
Mastering Time Management in Sales (00:10:00) – How prioritization and disciplined execution throughout the quarter prevent last-minute chaos and boost consistent performance.
Key Quotes
Kevin Lawson (00:07:53): “If you’re behind in sales right now, don’t throw Hail Marys. Don’t discount. You’re teaching your prospects to wait until the end of the quarter for a better deal—and that’s a losing game.”
Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:13:00): “You have one thing in sales you can never get back: time. If you wasted today, it’s gone forever. You can’t go back and fix it.”
Kevin Lawson (00:09:00): “Salespeople with commission breath stink. If your only focus is closing the deal before Friday, your prospects will smell it a mile away—and that’s not how you build relationships.”
A Significant Actionable Item from this PodcastDevelop a Five-Week Sales Training Plan – Sales leaders should map out the next five sales meetings, dedicating at least five minutes to skills development in each session. Focus on topics such as pipeline progression, prospect qualification, and closing techniques. Training should not be an afterthought—it should be a fundamental part of your sales strategy.
Why You Should Listen to This Episode
Whether you’re a sales leader or a frontline salesperson, this episode is your playbook for maintaining momentum all year long. Avoid the common traps of end-of-quarter desperation, build a disciplined approach to sales training, and master the art of time management. Just like in sports, sales success isn’t about last-minute heroics—it’s about consistent execution.
Tune in now and take your sales game to the next level!
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment:https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/ -
In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive into the art of sales prospecting using an unusual but powerful analogy—chasing butterflies versus building a garden. Are you tirelessly running after leads, or are you cultivating an environment where ideal prospects naturally come to you? Learn how to create a long-term strategy for consistent revenue growth by positioning your business as the go-to solution for your ideal customers.
Key Topics Discussed:The Butterfly Effect in Sales (00:01:00) – The difference between chasing every lead and strategically attracting the right ones.
Building a Sales Garden (00:02:49) – How to develop a long-term strategy that consistently nurtures and attracts the best-fit prospects.
Marketing & Content Strategy Alignment (00:04:22) – The importance of collaborating with marketing to ensure the right messaging is in place.
The Value of Inbound Leads (00:06:11) – Why leads that come through your marketing efforts are often easier to close and more profitable.
Tactical Steps for Sales Leaders (00:08:00) – Actionable insights for sales managers to help their teams attract, engage, and convert better.
Crafting a Strong Value Proposition (00:10:18) – The foundation of effective lead generation and how to align it with your ideal customer profile.
Key Quotes:
Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:01:52): “If you’re hungry for revenue, you’re probably running around chasing butterflies. But if you want sustainable growth, you need to create an environment where prospects naturally come to you.”
Kevin Lawson (00:03:55): “Sales leaders, think about your team—have you equipped them with butterfly nets, or have you taught them how to build a garden?”
Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:06:44): “The best prospects aren’t the ones you chase—they’re the ones who find their way to your garden because you’ve built something valuable for them.”
Additional Resources:
Previous episodes featuring Amy Connor on inbound marketing and lead generation.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/amy-connor-discusses-salespeople-vs-lead-generation/id1668686029?i=1000693738159
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/measuring-marketing-success-with-amy-connor-of-cmo-onloan/id1668686029?i=1000696058066
Value Proposition Workshop with Sean and Kevin. Learn how to refine your messaging to attract the right clients. Reach out to Kevin or Sean at the contact information below.
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:If you’re relying solely on outbound prospecting, start evaluating your value proposition and content strategy today. Align your marketing and sales teams to ensure your messaging is clear, consistent, and tailored to your ideal buyer. Identify gaps in your digital presence and take the first step toward creating a sales garden that nurtures and attracts the right leads.
Final Thoughts:
Sales is more than just chasing down deals—it’s creating an ecosystem where prospects feel drawn to your expertise, insights, and solutions. In this episode, Sean and Kevin explain shifting from frantic outbound prospecting to a methodical approach that fosters sustainable revenue growth. Whether you’re a sales leader or an individual contributor, you’ll walk away with practical steps to build your own high-converting sales garden.
Tune in now and take your sales strategy to the next level!
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment:
https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin -
Welcome back to another episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales with Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey! This week, we’re diving deep into the essential topic of measuring marketing effectiveness with special guest Amy Connor, founder of CMO OnLoan. This episode is for you if you’ve ever struggled to connect marketing strategies to real business results. Grab your marketing colleague and tune in—because understanding what’s working (and what’s not) in your marketing is the key to driving sales growth.
Key Topics Discussed:The Importance of Measuring Marketing Performance (01:08)
Many companies don’t track their marketing impact effectively. Amy shares how focusing on key metrics—without overwhelming dashboards—can create a direct path to success.
Sales and Marketing Must Be Aligned (02:09)
Customers don’t see marketing and sales as separate—they see one company. Amy explains why integrating both functions is crucial for a seamless customer journey.
Why Vanity Metrics Don’t Matter (02:55)
Impressions, clicks, and leads may look impressive, but if they don’t translate to business results, they don’t matter. Learn how to focus on meaningful data that connects to revenue.
The Billboard Advertising Myth (03:12)
Can a billboard drive B2B sales? Amy and Sean discuss the realities of traditional advertising and why small businesses should think critically about marketing spend.
Aligning Sales Messaging with Marketing Content (05:57)
Sales teams shouldn’t be the only ones communicating key messages. Amy shares why marketing content must reinforce what salespeople say to build trust and shorten sales cycles.
Tactical vs. Strategic Marketing – What’s the Right Balance? (08:29)
Key Quotes:
Should your marketing focus on brand awareness or immediate sales action? Amy explains the difference and how to measure each effectively.Amy Connor: “Marketing and sales are part of the customer's journey in a united way. The customer doesn’t see ‘marketing did this and sales did that’—they see the company as a whole.” (01:45)
Sean O’Shaughnessey: “Salespeople start at a disadvantage because buyers inherently don’t trust them. That’s why marketing must reinforce their message to build credibility.” (05:40)
Kevin Lawson: “Up to 70% of the buyer’s journey happens before they talk to sales. If marketing isn’t working ahead of time, you’re already losing.” (07:52)
Additional Resources:Visit CMO OnLoan for free marketing resources: www.cmo-onloan.com
Connect with Amy Connor on LinkedIn: Amy Connor LinkedIn
Listen to the first episode featuring Amy: Last Week’s Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/amy-connor-discusses-salespeople-vs-lead-generation/id1668686029?i=1000693738159
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:Audit Your Marketing Metrics
Take 30 minutes this week to assess what marketing data your company is tracking. Are you focusing on impressions and clicks or lead conversion and revenue impact? Identify one metric that directly connects marketing activity to business growth and make it your priority.Why You Should Listen to This Episode
Marketing is more than just branding—it’s a revenue-driving function. In this conversation, Amy Connor unpacks how B2B companies can measure what truly matters, align sales and marketing, and ensure every dollar spent on marketing contributes to the bottom line. If you want your marketing efforts to drive real sales results, don’t miss this insightful discussion. Tune in now!
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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How do you measure the success of your sales and marketing efforts? If you’ve ever found yourself wondering whether your marketing dollars are actually driving revenue or if your sales team is making the most of their leads, this episode is for you.
Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey sit down with Amy Connor, founder of CMO on Loan, to discuss how marketing and sales should work together for growth. Amy brings her extensive experience from Procter & Gamble, Luxottica, and other top brands to help mid-market companies build marketing confidence, align with sales, and drive measurable results.
Key Topics DiscussedThe Basketball Analogy: Why Tracking Performance Matters (~00:01:00)
Just like basketball teams analyze stats post-game, businesses need to measure marketing and sales effectiveness.
How to Decide Between Investing in Sales or Marketing (~00:04:30)
Business owners often wonder whether they should put more resources into sales teams or marketing initiatives—Amy breaks it down.
Aligning Marketing and Sales for Lead Generation (~00:07:30)
Should salespeople generate their own leads, or is there a more efficient way to bring prospects to the table?
The Role of a Fractional CMO: How Businesses Can Engage Marketing Leadership (~00:11:20)
Amy explains how a fractional CMO helps companies make smarter marketing decisions without the full-time executive cost.
A Sneak Peek into Next Week: Measuring Marketing Effectiveness (~00:13:52)
Tune in next week as Amy shares the tools and strategies that help businesses track what’s working and what’s not.
Key Quotes
Sean O’Shaughnessey (~00:06:41):
“So many of my clients assume that salespeople will find their own leads, but is that really the best use of their time?”
Amy Connor (~00:07:51):
“Your sales team is often being asked to do too much. Something will suffer if they have to hunt for leads and nurture accounts at the same time.”
Kevin Lawson (~00:11:00):
Additional Resources
“When companies say, ‘I need more sales,’ what they often mean is, ‘I need more leads.’ But are they solving the right problem?”
Learn more about CMO on Loan and how they help businesses improve marketing effectiveness: www.cmoonloan.com
Connect with Amy Connor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amyconnor/
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast
Evaluate your marketing and sales alignment. Take a step back and ask:
Do I have a clear process for tracking where leads come from and how they convert?
Is my sales team spending too much time prospecting instead of closing deals?
Would marketing support help my business generate higher-quality leads?
If you’re not sure, it may be time to review your funnel and define a strategy that ensures sales and marketing work together—not in silos.
Why You Should Listen to This Episode
This episode is a must-listen for business owners, sales leaders, and marketing professionals looking to make smarter investments in growth. Amy Connor shares real-world insights on how marketing can drive measurable business results and how sales and marketing can function as a united force. Plus, next week’s episode will dive even deeper into how to measure marketing effectiveness, so don’t miss it!
🎧 Download now and take the first step toward a more effective marketing and sales strategy!
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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Artificial intelligence (AI) is transforming the sales industry, but does that mean salespeople are becoming obsolete? Absolutely not! In this high-energy episode, Kevin and Sean debunk the myth that AI will replace sales professionals. Instead, they reveal how AI can be a game-changing tool for sales success.
From using AI to refine communication to automating time-consuming tasks, this episode is packed with insights on how AI can help sales leaders and reps work smarter, sell better, and stay ahead of the competition. Tune in to discover practical ways to leverage AI, improve efficiency, and dominate your market.
Key Topics Discussed🔹 Will AI Replace Salespeople? – The truth about AI’s role in sales and why your job isn’t at risk—but your quota might be. (00:00:45)
🔹 The Evolution of Sales Tools – A nostalgic (and hilarious) look at how tools have always changed work processes—remember manual garage doors and TV dials? (00:02:21)
🔹 AI for Writing & Communication – How tools like Grammarly can make your emails, proposals, and presentations sharper, clearer, and more professional. (00:04:00)
🔹 Boosting Productivity with AI – From auto-generating customized sales presentations to intelligent scheduling, AI can free up time for what matters most: selling. (00:06:01)
🔹 The AI-Powered CRM – If your CRM doesn’t have AI integration or a plan for it, it’s time to rethink your strategy. A modern CRM is essential for competitive sales teams. (00:12:00)
Key Quotes🗣️ Sean O’Shaughnessey: “You are not going to be replaced by AI. You’re going to be replaced by a salesperson using AI.” (00:01:00)
🗣️ Kevin Lawson: “AI isn’t here to take your job—it’s here to make you a better salesperson. Weaponize your tools and sharpen your axe.” (00:07:33)
🗣️ Sean O’Shaughnessey: “Being afraid of AI is like being afraid of Microsoft Word instead of a typewriter.” (00:10:18)
Additional Resources🔗 Grammarly – AI-powered writing assistant for better emails, proposals, and reports.
🔗 Canva – AI-enhanced design tool for creating presentations and marketing materials in seconds.
A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast🚀 Start Using AI Today! Don’t wait—integrate AI into your daily sales routine now. Whether it’s improving your writing with Grammarly, using AI for scheduling, or leveraging AI-powered CRM features, pick one AI tool and start experimenting. The sooner you adopt AI, the further ahead you’ll be.
Final ThoughtsAI isn’t a threat—it’s an opportunity. The best salespeople will be the ones who embrace AI to work smarter, sell more efficiently, and build stronger customer relationships. Want to future-proof your sales career? It starts here.
👉 Hit play now and learn how AI can be your competitive advantage in sales!
To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327
You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/
You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin
You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/
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