Episódios
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Dante the poet is having great fun with light. He's playing with its various meanings: illumination, revelation, sunrise, sunset, concealment, power--all this as we approach the middle of PURGATORIO and even find ourselves in the middle of COMEDY as a whole.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore these last moments on Purgatory's terrace of the wrathful before we find ourselves again among the stars.
If you'd like to help with the many fees associated with this podcast, you can offer a small, monthly stipend or even a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:41] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 40 - 72. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[04:16] A dizzying interplay about light: physical/metaphysical, imaginary/revelatory, sunrise/sunset, illuminating/concealing.
[06:46] Desire and the necessary (physical) fulfillment: a lead-in to what's ahead on the journey.
[08:37] Virgil's reply, a pastiche of Biblical and classical sources.
[12:37] The beatitude that ends this terrace, plus a non-Biblical addition to it that then complicates our notion of anger.
[16:51] Stars and the center of COMEDY.
[17:39] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 40 - 72.
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As Dante the pilgrim gets ready to leave the third terrace of Purgatory, the terrace of the angry, he has three ecstatic visions that warn about the dangers of excessive wrath.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at these visions and try to come to terms with the problem that Dante's rage may sit at the very center of COMEDY.
If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, please consider donating a very small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:11] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:13] Connecting this passage with the previous hymn to the imagination.
[07:37] A review of the first three ecstatic visions in Canto XV at the entrance to the terrace of anger.
[09:46] The first vision (from Ovid's METAMORPHOSES): a (garbled?) reduction of the Philomela, Procne, and Tereus story.
[16:31] The second vision (from the Bible): Ahasuerus, Esther, Mordecai, and Haman.
[20:37] The third vision (from THE AENEID: Queen Amata and her daughter, Lavinia.
[25:00] Dante's rage as the center of COMEDY.
[29:24] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39.
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Dante the pilgrim leaves Marco of Lombardy behind, but Dante the poet is not yet done with fundamental questions for his poem--particularly, how does he know what he knows? The answer lies in the imagination, the shaky ground that Dante posits is the basis of revelation.
If you'd like to help underwrite the fees for this podcast, please consider donating a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:54] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:26] The first canto in COMEDY that opens with a direct address to the reader may help us understand the reader that Dante has in mind for his poem.
[05:50] The smoke of anger becomes a fog and mist, which then becomes clouds, all of which happens as poetic space overlays poetic space in a metaphoric tour de force.
[10:08] Aristotle (and Aquinas) argued that the imagination is only based on sensory input.
[13:09] Dante may well disagree, offering the imagination as a mechanism of revelation.
[17:51] Dante begins to claim that his own poem is divinely inspired.
[20:58] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18.
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We've finished Marco of Lombardy's central discourse about free will, the soul's maturation, and the systemic problems with the world. Now let's look back at the whole speech and talk through some of the larger issues it raises.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at Marco's speech in PURGATORIO in its entirety.
If you'd like to donate to underwrite the many costs of this podcast, whether by a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift, please use this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:28] Rereading all of Marco of Lombardy's speech in my English translation: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 46 - 145. The separate passages of this speech can be found among the former episodes of this podcast.
[07:09] Why is Marco's speech so heavily cribbed?
[09:47] Why is Marco himself an opaque historical figure?
[13:01] Why does Marco's discourse move from personal space to metaphoric space and back to personal space?
[15:16] Is Marco's speech really theological?
[19:43] Who "convened" the laws and leader that Marco wants?
[22:52] Is the point of Marco's speech to give Dante permission to preach about corruption?
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Marco of Lombardy's time in COMEDY comes to an end with a chatty back-and-forth between him and the pilgrim Dante. Dante wants to compliment Marco on creating such a great argument (the one, that is, that Dante the poet created!) but Marco's only answer seems to be irritation and an abrupt dismissal.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for a fascinating deep dive into the end of PURGATORIO, Canto XVI.
If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating a one-time gift or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:33] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, Lines 130 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:10] The pilgrim Dante disallows land holdings for the papacy, based on Marco's reasoning.
[05:45] PURGATORIO, Canto XVI returns to Torah at its end, offering the argument deep, long-standing ballast.
[08:00] Gaia, Gherardo's daughter, has long been a troubling figure in commentary.
[10:45] What does this conversational coda to Marco's disquisition on free will do for the poem COMEDY as a whole?
[13:23] Why do the penitents work through anger in a lightless smoke?
[16:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 130 - 145.
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Marco of Lombardy, the angry penitent, continues his diagnosis of the world's problems. It's got only one sun, not two, as Rome had. And that one sun, the papacy, is not kosher. In fact, perhaps cannot be kosher under any circumstances.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore a big chunk of Marco's reasoning about the world's ills. He said it was in us. But he seems to claim it's more systemic than personal.
Consider donating a one-time gift or perhaps a small monthly stipend to cover the costs of this podcast. You can do so at this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:45] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[04:29] The papacy is not--or cannot be--kosher.
[07:36] Pastoral metaphoric space unifies the passage.
[09:30] Our nature is NOT corrupted?
[12:46] The papacy v. the empire: Dante's dilemma.
[18:26] The papacy v. the empire: the dilemma of Dante's age.
[21:17] Marco's argument moves back into personal space: his own Lombardy.
[22:48] Three good men are left on the Italian peninsula.
[26:10] These three good men are in contrast to the gluten Ciacco's two witnesses in INFERNO, Canto VI.
[29:36] The church of Rome isn't in Rome anymore!
[31:44] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129.
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Marco of Lombardy continues his discourse on free will, deep in the pitch-black smoke of the third terrace of Purgatory where the angry penitents confront their sin.
His discussion takes a wild turn: a developmental hypothesis of the soul as a little girl, a scheme that may or may not nix original sin from Christian theology.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this complicated passage at almost the very heart of COMEDY.
If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, either with a one-time donation or with a little bit each month as a stipend, please consider doing so at this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:38] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 85 - 96. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[04:04] A passage from Dante's CONVIVIO that is the basis for some of this passage in COMEDY (CONVIVIO, Book IV, chapter xii, lines 14 - 17.)
[10:37] Dante's developmental hypothesis about the soul.
[15:35] Dante's understanding of the soul as a little girl, to confirm the heteronormative desire that is the basis of creation/being.
[20:02] Answers to whether Dante jettisons the notion of original sin: 1) yes, 2) no, 3) only here, or 4) Dante's doesn't but Marco does.
[26:42] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 85 - 96.
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Dante the pilgrim has asked the angry Marco of Lombardy the cause of the world's ills. Marco responds with both exasperation and affection before turning to the root of the matter: The cause is in all of you.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this central passage in COMEDY, a grand statement of the Christian paradox of free will.
If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast through a one-time donation or via a small monthly stipend, please consider doing so at this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:49] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 64 - 84. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this podcast entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[04:15] A justification for how this episode works.
[06:00] The conflation of anger and affection in the texture of the passage.
[08:49] Marco's teamwork with Guido del Duca, back among the envious.
[10:02] Human feelings as the proof for free will.
[13:27] One impetus to behavior (the zodiac signs) with two initial gifts (light and free will).
[15:22] Two outs for free will: the battles against those astrological signs and proper nourishment. (But not Satan or the demons!)
[19:48] Free will and God's control: the breadth of Dante's pasture.
[28:03] The cause of evil: humans. The truth of God: transcendence.
[31:17] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 64 - 84.
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Dante's on the verge of exploding with doubt. Marco of Lombardy's snark about the loss of valor in the bows of this world has done little more than leave the pilgrim in a theological puzzle: How did the world get so bad?
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore Dante's question to Marco before we turn to Marco's central discourse, the very middle of the great masterwork COMEDY.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:48] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 52 - 63. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this specific episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:21] Dante's question assumes the values of chivalry.
[08:34] Can the redeemed instigate doubt?
[10:36] Dante ties Marco's snark back to Guido del Duca's nostalgia.
[13:19] COMEDY's new motivation is to bring back the answers.
[14:36] Dante's quandary is astrological, not truly theological (per se).
[17:00] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 52 -63.
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Wrapped in the dark, acrid smoke, Dante encounters one of the angry penitents and one of the most seminal figures in COMEDY, here at almost the exact center of the entire poem.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the pilgrim's flatteries, the penitent's abrupt nature, and the questions of beauty that begin to dominate COMEDY itself.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[02:10] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 25 - 51. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[04:35] Is Marco still angry? Abrupt? What his deal with cutting and segmenting?
[08:21] Virgil is all about the destination in a canticle all about process.
[10:31] Dante the pilgrim is becoming the wonder of the poem. And he's beginning to connect beauty with ethics.
[14:57] At first, Marco probably is walking toward (not with) Dante and Virgil.
[17:19] Dante's answer to Marco seems to indicate that he now is indeed Aeneas and Paul (as opposed to how he felt in INFERNO, Canto II).
[21:20] The erratic plotting of PURGATORIO positions this canticle between INFERNO and PARADISO.
[25:05] Who is Marco of Lombardy? And is that even his name?
[27:06] Marco of Lombardy is connected to Ulysses (from INFERNO, Canto XXVI).
[29:28] Marco asks Dante the pilgrim to pray for him, a distinct change from those who've come before.
[31:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 25 - 51.
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Dante finds himself in such dark, acrid smoke that he is reminded of the very inky desolations of Inferno. In fact, he has come to the darkest spot in all of COMEDY, the fiftieth canto of Dante's masterpiece.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin to explore the third terrace of Purgatory proper along with Dante and his guide, Virgil.
If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees of this podcast, please consider donating either a one-time gift or a small monthly subscription through this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:35] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:35] The fiftieth canto of COMEDY is the darkest canto of them all.
[05:24] Is the smoke of anger "contrapasso," as the punishments of hell were?
[08:41] Can Virgil see in the smoke?
[11:57] The line the penitents chant in unison is one of the oldest texts in the Mass.
[15:25] Dante well understands anger as a knot.
[19:27] Dante the poet shows an understanding of modern plot structure.
[21:02] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 1 - 24.
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In this interpolated episode among those on our slow-walk through Dante's masterpiece, COMEDY, let's discuss the specific sin of anger (or wrath), particularly as it relates to both PURGATORIO (the canticle we're in) and INFERNO (where we've come from).
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the definitions and inside-the-poem problems of anger.
If you'd like to help underwrite the fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating a one-time gift or a small monthly stipend through this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:22] Anger is the first sin or human failing found overtly in both INFERNO (at cantos VII and VIII) and PURGATORIO (at cantos XV - XVII).
[08:14] Dante's earlier thoughts on an answer to wrath in CONVIVIO.
[12:10] Why is calling anger a sin such a problem in Christian theology?
[16:02] Comparing INFERNO, Cantos XV and XVI, with PURGATORIO, Cantos XV and XVI.
[21:00] Frederick Buechner's definition of anger from WISHFUL THINKING: A SEEKER'S ABC.
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We've now come to the third terrace of Purgatory proper, the ledge of wrath (or anger).
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we read through the passages that make up this terrace, starting back at PURGATORIO, Canto XV, line 85 (through parts of Canto XV we've already covered) and on to PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, line 72.
If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast to cover its many fees, please consider donating at this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:53] My rough English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, line 85 through Canto XVII, line 72. This translation is not found on my website. Rather, just sit back and listen to its sweep before we begin to take it apart.
[17:37] Initial questions about the third terrace of anger.
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Dante comes out of his ecstatic vision only to have Virgil question whether the pilgrim has drunk too much.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this rare moment of levity after such intense visions. The pacing slows down and Virgil offers kind advice about getting on their way, maybe two more answers to the problem of anger.
If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, please consider giving a one-time donation or a monthly stipend of just a little through this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:18] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 115 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:31] Dante the poet offers a humorous moment in PURGATORIO--and perhaps another antidote to the problem of anger.
[05:41] Does Virgil know what Dante has seen in his visions or only that Dante has had visions? Is Virgil cagey? If so, why? If not, what's his point?
[09:26] A pastoral scene dissolves into ominous, inescapable smoke that itself encapsulates the problem of anger.
[12:02] What exactly are Dante's "not erroneous errors" or "unfalse errors"?
[15:12] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 115 - 145.
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Dante the pilgrim has already had one ecstatic vision as he stepped onto the third terrace of Purgatory proper. Now he has two more in quick succession.
We're able then to identify the sin or human failing for this terrace: anger (or wrath). And we're able to glean some very human answers Dante proposes to this very human failing.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the second and third ecstatic vision at the start of the terrace of wrath.
If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating once or monthly through this Paypal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:45] My English translation of the medieval Florentine. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:59] The sin or human failing for the third terrace identified by name: anger (or wrath).
[06:48] The second ecstatic vision: Pisistratus and his wife.
[14:49] The third ecstatic vision: the martyrdom of Stephen.
[17:57] The third vision ends with references to The Gospel Of Matthew, chapter 5, the source of the beatitudes in PURGATORIO.
[19:36] The antidote to anger: found in the countenance.
[22:40] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 94 - 114.
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Dante and Virgil have stepped onto the third terrace of Purgatory proper and our pilgrim is hit with an ecstatic vision. In fact, the first one in a poem that may itself seem like an ecstatic vision. And one of the few anywhere in COMEDY.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the first vision on the third terrace of Purgatory, the opening salvo to the true middle of the great poem COMEDY.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:49] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 85 - 93. If you'd like to read along to continue the conversation, please find this episode of my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:07] A vision of the Virgin Mary at the door, speaking in medieval Florentine.
[06:14] The changes in the Biblical story of Mary's leaving the young Jesus behind in Jerusalem and returning to find him.
[09:29] The importance of the possessive pronoun she uses: "my son."
[11:52] The paradox with "ecstatic visions" in COMEDY.
[16:16] The light of an ecstatic vision in transparent or empty space.
[21:43] Two little boys in Canto XV: the sun in the sky and Jesus in Mary's eyes.
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Dante the pilgrim has gotten one answer out of Virgil about the nature of abundance and scarcity in terms of heavenly good . . . but that answer was not apparently enough. So he goes back for more.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this continuation of Virgil's lesson between the second and third terraces of Purgatory proper. As we leave the envious behind, Virgil offers us a lesson in the unending and multiplying faculty of love.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:41] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 58 - 84. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[04:28] The food and agrarian imagery in the passage: desire and its satisfaction.
[08:18] The light imagery in this passage: links back to the opening of Canto XV, as well as to Aquinas' SUMMA and Dante's own CONVIVIO.
[14:58] Profit: the motive or idea of multiplicity has been in Canto XV all along.
[16:31] Virgil: a character of Dante the poet's mouthpiece?
[20:38] The plot returns (sort of) by a redefinition of the problem of pain.
[24:28] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 58 - 84.
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Dante and Virgil encounter the awaited angel as they begin their ascent to the third terrace of Purgatory proper.
They hear two snippets of song. They find the climb easier. And Dante asks Virgil to gloss two lines Guido del Duca said back in Canto XIV. All these things indicate the shifting the nature of COMEDY itself as we enter its middle cantos.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this passage about the climb to the third terrace and see the shifting nature of COMEDY's audience and purpose.
If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, whether as a one-time donation or a small on-going contribution, please visit this PayPal link right here.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:18] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 34 - 57. If you'd like to read along or continue the converation with me, please find this specific episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.
[03:31] An increasing emphasis on transitional figures and a more overt allegory in COMEDY as a whole.
[08:15] Two bits of song: a fragment of a beatitude in Latin (from Matthew 5:7) and an exhortation in medieval Florentine.
[12:07] The question who sings these two phrases.
[15:13] The shifting dynamic in COMEDY to the correction, not of behavior, but of the mind.
[18:44] Virgil's gloss on scarcity and abundance, as well as the civic threat of envy.
[26:42] The problem of the audience for Guido's (and Virgil's!) speech.
[30:45] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 34 - 57.
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Dante the poet is playing a very crafty game. He's been pulling out all the stops with two metaphors to help us understand the weight, meaning, and timing of the light . . . and then he redefines that source of light right underneath all those metaphors.
And just as the poet pulls off that trick, Virgil also redefines the very terms on which PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, ended, as he undertakes a reassessment of "pleasure" or "delight."
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this key passage in the on-going struggle to translate what seems into what is.
If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, please consider a one-time or even monthly donation using this PayPal link right here. Every bit helps with streaming, licensing, hosting, editing, royalty, and domain fees.
Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:27] My English translation of this short passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 25 - 33. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[02:29] Virgil redefines "pleasure" or "delight," a word from the end of Canto XIV.
[04:28] The passage also redefines the source (or refraction?) of the light.
[07:22] Virgil remains the central redefinition in all of PURGATORIO.
[08:24] A three-step structural notion of spiritual progress in PURGATORIO: "outside us," "inside us," and "above us."
[14:00] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 25 - 33.
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Dante and Virgil pass on beyond the envious along the second terrace of Purgatory proper. As we enter the first of the middle three canti of all of COMEDY, Dante is blinded by the sun, about as we're blinded by his increasingly complex poetics.
These passages begin the brilliant fun of the second half of the poem. Dante begins to play with meaning, poetics, and metaphor as never before, challenging us and pushing us into a spot of disorientation, all the while bringing us to a spot of revelation.
Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we see the sun as never before in the opening lines of PURGATORIO, Canto XV. Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:
[01:19] My English translation of this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or to continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.
[03:37] PURGATORIO Canto XV is a liminal canto, existing between disorientation and revelation.
[13:58] Two unique words in COMEDY in this opening passage (that is, two hapax legomena).
[17:19] Telling time by the sun and playing around with it, as it plays around in the sky.
[22:18] The sun and blindness at the opening and closing of our time on the terrace of the envious.
[24:56] Medieval science that can reformulate the plot into poetic language.
[28:30] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 1 - 24.
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