Эпизоды
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No links or resources in this one. This one is for us, though I suppose every recording has aspired to that ideal -- a time capsule of our marriage. "Objective," or at least truthful, to the best of our ability. Pointed at our own growth. And shared publicly because it feels meaningful, inspires more conversations, and contributes, again, to growth. Thank you for listening, for sharing, for reaching out, to us, or to your partner.
Riley & Caro
Week 52
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotographyand @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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What are you into? What do you like? What gets you excited? These seem like super simple questions, at face value — but for some reason, it didn’t occur to either of us to ask each other anything like that at the beginning of our relationship. Even now, it feels weirdly blunt (even for me, a proudly blunt question-asker) to just ASK Riley what he wants from our sex/sensual life. In this conversation, we ask one another these questions. We also talk about the emotions that explain why we’ve never asked them before (primarily a strong cocktail of fear and embarrassment). I talk about the particular challenge women face in answering these questions (namely, that I don’t KNOW what I’m into), and we take a nice little walk down memory road and share some stories from our sexual histories (plot twist: Riley’s “road” is far longer than mine).
-Carolina Ballerina
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotographyand @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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Пропущенные эпизоды?
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As we discuss, we had such an incredible response to our last conversation, opening up about the ways we continue to struggle with our sex life. Kind people reached out to empathize and share their nearly identical feelings and experiences, and I think Caroline and I were both surprised to discover how much shame we had each been feeling, and how much hearing from others helped us in leaving that shame behind and thinking about growth.
People also reached out with books, podcasts, and online education programs.
Come As You Are (Emily Nagoski)Wild Feminine (Tami Lynn Kent)OMG YES (web-based class on sex techniques)Pussy, A Reclamation (Regena Thomashauer)Shameless Sex (podcast)Orgasmic Enlightenment (podcast)An observation: sex education resources and sex positivity culture, at least what I've been exposed to, are dominated by white educators and creators. If anyone has been exposed to a broader, better view (or deeper research on this observation) please share.
We also reference Resmaa Menakem's red-pill-relevation book My Grandmother's Hands, and couldn't remember his name! There it is, and a Bookshop link to buy.
Riley
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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Talking about sex is really hard in any given situation, let alone when it's with your life partner and you're both speaking into a literal megaphone about your perceived failures as a couple. In this conversation, Riley and I hit on pretty much every pain point I could personally think of, when it comes to our shared intimacy: his perception of not feeling wanted by me, my perception of the world viewing me as a terrible wife, and the broader cultural norms that we both have to wade through every damn day, which tend to prioritize Riley's pleasure over mine, and which are a real mind f*ck to dismantle in your own head, even when your partner is supportive as hell.
On a personal level, I hope that this terrifyingly vulnerable conversation makes at least one other person feel a little bit less alone. Figuring out how to prioritize your own pleasure can often feel like an impossible battle, given what a challenge it can be to understand what makes your pleasure clock tick to begin with.
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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Incredibly loose timestamping runs as follows:
Highs (eh? eh?) and lows (00:05:00)Trust, respect, and communication in shared projects (00:10:00)Butting heads on the bullshit of budgeting (00:32:00)We lose the edible game (00:50:00)We silently follow a fly around the room (01:04:00)As I note in the conversation, The Edible Games will not be a frequently recurring series within the podcast. Which will come as no surprise after listening to the degradation of this conversation, or the stories of my remarkably low tolerance.
Important Background
Getting high on my podcast is a dramatic flaunting of privilege that demands a deeper look at three incontrovertible truths:
The criminalization of marijuana is and always has been a tool of racial injustice.The new white-dominated industry springing up in states with legal cannabis is perpetuating, if not actively exacerbating, the disenfranchisement of Black people and other groups that have been (and continue to be) the target of the decades-long war on drugs.To even begin to reconcile with our history of systemic racism in drug-related law enforcement, we must (1) quickly develop and enact explicitly anti-racist policies, including, at a minimum, expungement of marijuana related criminal records, and reinvestment of public and private proceeds back into communities most harmed by past enforcement; and (2) (as a necessary precondition for 1) federal legalization.Read, Listen, Act
The ACLU does a pretty good job with the high level current conversation here (https://bit.ly/2Hhvlh4), and NPR gives a short (4 min listen) history of the explicitly racist origins of marijuana criminalization in the 30s here (https://n.pr/2EmezMG).
Read about the MORE Act (Marijuana Opportunity Reinvestment and Expungement) here (https://bit.ly/3ceus46), which would be the most significant federal legislative development on marijuana policy in 50 years — and is actually set to pass soon, after COVID relief gets sorted and we get past the presidential election.
You can write your Congressional representatives to get them to cosponsor. You can buy Black-owned cannabis, using resources like Cannaclusive's InclusiveBase here (https://bit.ly/2EiLGRv) or this state-based list of highlights from GreenEntrepreneur here (https://bit.ly/3hJaXlj). And you can follow the development of the MORE Act and get involved in how it manifests in your state.
Marijuana reform will not solve systemic racism. No single thing will. Systemic problems require networked solutions, of which this is an important node.
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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When you've gotten yourself entangled in a marriage* where neither one of you fully understands finances, it becomes necessary for a change to be made. That's why I, Caro Bambino, have taken it upon myself to sign up for a finance course this fall, thereby changing the course of our tiny, insignificant lives forever. In this conversation, we chat about that course, along with the approach I plan on having to our shared financial future. We also talk about how cool it's been to see Riley literally teach himself a really complicated and useful skill during the airstream renovation, and Riley asks me how it feels when I shared information about the pod on social media to a resounding audience of crickets. We're still exploring how we feel about the idea of creating a separate account for this project — if you see one pop up on your feed soon, that'll be your answer.
-Caro, Queen of the North
*yes, that's how I describe my relationship with Riley
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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In this conversation, Riley and I talk about this type of loneliness — the challenges of moving through a new phase of life alone, with respect to your peers. And conversely, whether that type of peer affirmation matters at all at certain milestones, or if instead, that desire is a phenomenon manufactured by the pop culture we've been raised by. Anyway, I imagine a lot of people have felt a bit lonely this summer under quarantine — I'd love to hear from anyone (married, single, in between or otherwise) who has troubleshooting advice.
-Caro I-haven't-changed-my-last-name-yet-probably-won't-ever Burke
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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Riley and I talk about why we stopped recording and sharing, and why we decided to start again. It's difficult and complicated and important, for us, and if you've had similar conversations or better approaches, please share back.
The book we talk about this week is The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein. Listen to it via Audible, or listen to the author speak with Ari Shapiro from NPR. The podcast is Nice White Parents from the New York Times.
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro and outro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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No outside resources to note, and since it's a short one, no timestamps. Caroline throws up pretty much right at the ten minute mark though.
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This week's conversation was recorded on January 26, the day Kobe died. Riley and I open the conversation by talking briefly about Kobe, but I don't think either one of us knew, in that moment, how much it would affect our emotions in the weeks to come, and how much it likely affected the argument we had on this day without our realizing it. You can probably hear it in our voices: tension, stress, confusion. We're arguing about a fight we had about how clean the apartment was, but what we're really talking about has to do with unspoken feelings of abandonment, emotion policing, and beneath all of that, grief. One particularly interesting event of this conversation is when Riley coins the term "agnostic anger," which is the type of aimless frustration that can be really difficult to deal with in a relationship. When your partner has agnostic anger, what are you supposed to do? Ignore it and let them figure it out on their own, or confront it, even if it has nothing to do with you? We still don't have a total answer, but this conversation marks our efforts to get closer to a solution.
Yours in faith and quarantine,
Caro Bambino, Queen of Stop Policing My Emotions Island
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We'll add these in a bit.
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We had to wade through the muck a bit. But ultimately, this is a good one. A note for myself to listen to this before the next time we're apart for a long period of time. Considering that I'm writing this in May of 2020, who knows when that will be. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, perhaps. Distance is also what makes the partners grow stronger, individually.
(19:27) I mention Esther Perel on the Knowledge Project, available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atXKntdX2UY(36:46) Fertile sadness, fertile longing(39:00) Lessons on how to stay in love from Week Thirteen(41:29) On becoming different people while apart(48:24) Your first fight defines the rest of your fightsThanks for listening. If any of this hits home for you or sparks a conversation between you and your partner, we'd love to hear from you. Find us on Instagram @caroclaireburke or @ri_soserious.
- Riley
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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At one point in the back half of this week’s discussion, I promise a study about how relationships built on shared negativity (dislike for someone or something) are easier to form but weaker in the long term, compared to relationships built on shared interests or affinities. The single silver bullet study to support this idea eludes me (or perhaps never existed), but in searching, a couple of related and interesting reads.
Business Insider grabbed an article originally published in Science of People, neither of which strike me as particularly valid peer reviewed sources, but the findings feel face valid to me — use this directionally. Specifically, two ways that negativity supports bonding — one, that negativity registers a stronger emotional response (translating to a stronger shared emotional experience), and two, that expressing negativity is an act of intimacy, as a contradiction of accepted social norms of general positivity toward others. It’s a wink, if you will. Here’s the link: https://bit.ly/3cPaFr2
The risk of negativity as a strategy for forming relationships lies in the potential for misalignment (you venture a negative point of view on something the other person has a positive view of), as well as, in the long term, developing a negative perception of the relationship itself. The Atlantic goes a bit deeper on this point of avoiding negativity bias in relationships. Here’s that: https://bit.ly/2KxaNj3
Hit us up, always.
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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This conversation was a real helter-skelter hodgepodge of sex topics, all of which stemmed from one initial thought: men deserve to feel wanted just as much as women do. More specifically, Riley and I addressed a pretty huge imbalance in our sex life, and our relationship as a whole: namely, that he dotes on me nonstop, and is always the one to initiate sex, whereas I pretty much NEVER hit on him or make an active effort to make him feel wanted. We actually did our homework this time, and reference a number of studies that have been done on the topic of biological/cultural differences with sex roles. Studies that force us to ask questions like this: do people have a higher sex drive BECAUSE they masturbate more frequently, or do they masturbate more BECAUSE they have a higher sex drive? Real hard hitting stuff, I know, which translates to this conundrum: how do I overcome the thousands of years of training that tells me NOT to hit on Riley, and how does Riley learn how to overcome his own training and say, “Please make me feel wanted?” And if we can overcome this, does it mean our kids will be more likely to bypass all of this bull-hoonanny. This conversation also includes brief forays into: the field of epigenetics, taboo sex fantasies, and us speaking into mics with pretty significant head colds.
The University of Michigan study on testosterone, cortisol (stress), and masturbation relative to sex drive (https://bit.ly/2VEiBV7)More Pyschology Today links, but they're not so bad when it's research recaps vs. op-ed pieces... Here's a version of the study addressing rape fantasies we mentioned (https://bit.ly/3angE4R).The bit on epigenetics in action in mice (https://go.nature.com/2ypbRCE)Thanks for listening, hushpuppies!
- Wayne Gretzky (Michael Scott) ((Caro Bambino))
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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"He's an adult, he's got this" is the key to this conversation, for me. We spend some time debunking this thought, that a marker of maturity is being able to deal with challenges on your own, in isolation from the people who care about you. Looking back, it seems I'm quick to ball up, originally shutting my parents out of my healthcare, and then (well, now) my wife. I still think of this issue as having gendered roots, being a "dude thing", but maybe it truly is a me thing that comes from something else.
(12:00) Order, disorder, and reorder, via Jedidiah Jenkins (listen to his show, Question the Self https://apple.co/2VlKhhB).(34:50) Fight #2 of the night.(38:45) Caroline talks about the feeling of not being able to walk out and cool off, now that we're married and living together.(43:20) We talk about the half-life of fights, and mental models for safer transitions out of that period.(49:25) System 1 and System 2 in fights, which we don't explain is from Daniel Kahneman in Thinking Fast and Slow (https://nyti.ms/2JVLNS8).(52:45) Your partner is a variable, not a control.(55:13) Lessons on how to stay in love for Week Nine.Thanks for listening. If any of this hits home for you or sparks a conversation between you and your partner, we'd love to hear from you. Find us on Instagram @caroclaireburke or @ri_soserious.
- Riley
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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We'll add these later tonight.
Edit: OR WILL WE. Just listen to the show.
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Dear friends and family,
We both love all of you, despite this quabble where we parse out sides of who belongs to who.I can see why people drag out courtship before marriage. To see what home life is like for the other, to get a sense of how families might integrate (or not). In fact, to avoid this exact situation we find ourselves working through over Thanksgiving, stretched thin between multiple families, houses, and groups of friends. A blessing in disguise, to be sure, but the cause of the first time we really get into it while recording. It won't be the last.
(04:30) Yep, there's a poop story(11:05) Scrabble fight commences(19:30) The real fight about relationship coordination while at home. Also to fact check, there are steps to dissolve the aftermath of a fight, which seem face valid (https://bit.ly/3bF8rd9)(38:00) Making plans with your partner vs. being assigned plans by your parter(52:00) Lessons on how to stay in love from Week 6 and 7Thanks for listening. If any of this hits home for you or sparks a conversation between you and your partner, we'd love to hear from you. Find us on Instagram @caroclaireburke or @ri_soserious.
- Riley
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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Unfortunately, there's a dead baby joke in this one. We also overshoot our quota of saying "lived experience" by 10. But there's also some really helpful stuff, liberally cribbed from Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga, the authors of The Courage to Be Disliked (https://amzn.to/2wvL07v), who did the same from Alfred Adler, a contemporary of Freud and Jung. Caveats that (1) obviously this isn't a paid promotion, and (2) while it presents as a self-help book (and I suppose it is) it's narrative based, like a Buddhist fable, and grounded in a "real" school of psychology, so it feels less fluffy than what I imagine self-help books to be.
(04:24) I get on my high horse about The Courage to Be Disliked (and you mix up "cache" and "cachet" Caroline)(06:25) Corgi tail cropping(15:30) We discuss Caroline's writing, and her desire to find a therapist(18:06) In fact, the direction of someone's gaze does not indicate whether they are telling the truth or not (https://bit.ly/2QT7hDc)(32:00) Individual fulfillment is an important piece of a healthy relationship(35:00) Caroline digs a little deeper on finding a therapist(51:00) Lessons on how to stay in love for Week 5Thanks for listening. If any of this hits home for you or sparks a conversation between you and your partner, we'd love to hear from you. Find us on Instagram @caroclaireburke or @ri_soserious.
- Riley
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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This conversation is the first one where we talk about marriage from an aerial view: what it means to us conceptually, how we viewed it before we met one another, and how our expectations of marriage have been met or changed since tying the knot. We also talk about a really interesting theory about how to approach marriage and relationships, as credited to the inimitable Natalie Warther, my brilliant poet friend, about 45 minutes in.
(00:08:00) Married couple fights are just plain scary(00:10:45) We got into two enormous fights this week HAHA LOL EVERYTHING'S FINE(00:18:15) The post-wedding registry lifestyle creep is real(00:27:00) We discuss why there's an urge to keep relationships more private after marriage(00:35:00) How has the reality of marriage met or not met our expectations?(00:41:38) We share our doubts about whether or not we love each other (plot twist: we disagree)(00:45:30) The concept of treating marriage as a third party, entity, plant, etc.(00:48:20) I talk about how I only understood marriage through diamond rings as a child(00:54:00) We talk about our hopes for the next 11 months, with our marriage and with this projectWishing safety and love to all those cool crazy cats and kittens out there!
-Carol Burkins, Tiger Queen
Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; @nataliewarther for her brilliant and empathetic insight; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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Acknowledgments
Thanks as always to our wonderful family and friends who have helped along the way. Specifically, our muse @floriandelomme for his generosity in allowing us the use of his Tulum sunset in our cover art; @anka1027 for her knowledge of all things podcasting; her renaissance husband @gnarliehewson for our highly rad intro music; and, of course, @mollylophotography and @edwardslater, whose empathy and talent are on display in every photo of our wedding (and could be for yours—message them directly or visit their website).
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