Эпизоды
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With a tight labor market casting a dark shadow over our heads, architecture, engineering and construction firm marketers are increasingly stepping in to support talent recruiting, engagement and retention. Bryce Batts, the Co-Founder of AEC staffing firm Career Collective, sits down with us to talk about how marketing and HR departments are teaming up to attract top talent.
Bryce gives us a glimpse into the state of the AEC hiring market and the top challenges hiring firms are navigating. She also covers how a strong employer brand impacts recruitment, why social media channels like LinkedIn should be a priority, the importance of internship programs, and more.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnAbout Career Collective and Bryce Batts’ journey to launching a staffing firm dedicated to the AEC industry.
Key factors driving the AEC talent shortage.
How marketing and HR are collaborating to improve recruiting, engagement and retention strategies.
The role of marketing in shaping a strong employer brand and how it can influence hiring.
How candidates use social media and why it’s crucial for firms to convey authenticity online.
Bryce’s advice on handling negative reviews on platforms like Glassdoor.
How marketing assets, project spotlights and a modern website impact seller-doer recruitment.
About our featured guestBryce has been a recruiter in the AEC industry for over 15 years and is a certified Career Coach. She met her husband in college, and they have two daughters and a Bernedoodle. Bryce earned her bachelor’s degree at North Carolina State University and received her master of business administration from Nova Southeastern. She was a college dancer and cheerleader and loves to cheer professionals on as they gain clarity and confidence when it comes to their career goals.
Bryce is the co-CEO of Career Collective, an AEC recruiting and coaching firm. Career Collective was founded with a singular vision: Providing both candidates and employers with premier access to the best in AEC industry opportunities. Guided by Bryce Batts and Edwin Powali, Career Collective stands at the forefront of AEC recruitment. Bryce's passion for career coaching and Edwin's prowess in talent acquisition create a powerhouse duo dedicated to enriching both the careers of individuals and the teams of employers they serve.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Career Collective
Follow Career Collective on LinkedIn
Connect with Bryce Batts on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Firm-sponsored events strengthen community ties and create opportunities for attorneys to network with potential clients. But the traditional “lunch and learn” format simply doesn’t spark joy with everyone. In this episode, Gail Lamarche, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Henderson Franklin, teaches us valuable lessons about creating unique and memorable law firm events.
Gail shares examples from a 25-year career working with law firms, including a Cigars & Conversations event with cigar and bourbon tastings and an educational maritime law event outside a Southwest Florida yacht club. She also dives into planning Henderson Franklin’s latest event, a gala celebrating the firm’s 100th anniversary, her favorite AI tools for brainstorming creative event ideas, and the importance of incorporating a “Wow” factor in each event.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnThe difference a thoughtful event can make in helping attorneys build authentic connections with people in their community.
How Henderson Franklin is celebrating and commemorating its 100th anniversary milestone.
Why Gail champions “not doing the same things the same way all the time” in marketing and business development initiatives.
Tips for organizing memorable legal events that get firms away from the traditional lunch and learn model — and why they don’t always have to be law-related.
How Henderson Franklin balances and strategically manages over 100 charitable efforts.
Gail’s favorite AI tools for enhancing event planning.
About our featured guestWith over 25 years of experience in law firms, Gail Lamarche serves as the Director of Marketing and Business Development for Henderson, Franklin, Starnes & Holt, P.A., a full-service firm with over 50 lawyers across three offices in Southwest Florida. Gail oversees the firm’s marketing strategies, encompassing advertising, branding, budgeting, business development, digital marketing, social media, seminars, events and community initiatives. In addition to her role at the firm, Gail works with an author, speaker and international wellness coach.
A New England native and baseball enthusiast, Gail serves on the Boston Red Sox Celebrity Golf Classic Tournament Committee, which benefits the Golisano Children’s Hospital of Southwest Florida, and has raised over $15 million to date. She is also a member of the Southwest Florida Seminole Booster Club. Previously, Gail served on the Communications Task Force for the Horizon Council of Lee County, was an inaugural member of the Social Media Shared Interest Group Leadership Committee for the Legal Marketing Association, and co-founded the Social Media Club of Southwest Florida, where she also served as president.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Henderson, Franklin, Starnes & Holt, P.A.
Follow Henderson Franklin on LinkedIn, Facebook, X and Instagram
Connect with Gail Lamarche on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a marketing and public relations agency that serves B2B professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services, creative services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Пропущенные эпизоды?
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To excel in an industry that never stops innovating, you have to be willing to grow and evolve with it. Architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) marketers often have to walk the delicate line between honoring their firms’ rich history and showcasing how they’re embracing innovation.
Founded in 1915, Gannett Fleming has experienced its fair share of changes over the years. Marketing and Communications Director Justin Juley says he views brand refreshes as opportunities to better define the firm’s story, unify its voice and show employees, clients and prospects that they can honor their legacy while driving the future of the built environment.
In this episode, Justin shares learnings from Gannett’s latest brand refresh, his thoughts on the digital marketing trends shaping his team’s work, and insights into the firm’s content strategy.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnGannett Fleming's history and evolution.
Justin’s biggest learnings and takeaways from helping refresh Gannett Fleming TranSystems' brand and marketing strategy.
Why firms shouldn’t be afraid to highlight and champion their talent.
How to cultivate a stronger employer brand.
Ways trends in marketing automation, data analytics and channel evolution are impacting AEC firms.
Considerations for developing an effective brand positioning strategy for a government contracting audience.
Why Justin believes facilitation is one of the most important skills a marketer can develop.
About our featured guestJustin Juley, CPSM, is the Marketing and Communications Director at Gannett Fleming TranSystems, where he leads a high-performing team of 20 marketing, communications and graphic design professionals. With nearly 20 years of experience in the AEC industry, Justin is a strategic leader in driving the firm's branding, marketing, and communications efforts to new heights and measurable results.
Joining the firm in late 2020, Justin helped redefine and roll out a revised transportation brand position within three months. Within a year, he was promoted to his current role and immediately helped the firm undertake a brand refresh that included a new website. This was quickly followed by leading the communications efforts on two of Gannett Fleming's largest acquisitions to date.
Justin's professional journey is marked by significant contributions to industry organizations and community initiatives. A dedicated member of the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS) since 2007 and a Certified Professional Services Marketer (CPSM), he has held numerous SMPS leadership roles, including President of the Wisconsin Chapter and co-chair of the 2022 SMPS Heartland Regional Conference. Beyond his professional endeavors, Justin is committed to charitable causes, notably having served on the Wisconsin State Leadership Board of the American Cancer Society.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Gannett Fleming TranSystems
Follow Gannett Fleming TranSystems on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram
Connect with Justin Juley on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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It’s easy to get lost in the complexities of a legal issue and the nuances of an industry, but effective marketing should always center around one thing: how does it make people feel about your firm? This is one of many insights that Strauss Troy’s director of marketing Jennifer Gault has acquired in her more than 12-year career spanning the retail, nonprofit and construction sectors.
In this episode, Jennifer discusses how she’s strengthening brand awareness for “strategically midsize” law firm Strauss Troy, including by developing a new tagline, launching a video strategy and guiding a website redesign.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnHow Jen Gault’s experience in the retail, nonprofit and construction sectors shapes her approach to legal marketing.
Why midsize law firm Strauss Troy has focused its marketing strategy on brand awareness.
Why powerful, human-led stories are essential no matter the industry, and how to make them work for law firms.
Key considerations for redesigning a law firm’s website and branding.
How to balance firmwide initiatives with individual attorneys’ community and pro bono interests.
About our featured guestJen Gault is the director of marketing at Strauss Troy, where she leads the development and execution of marketing strategies at one of the Midwest’s top midsize firms. With over 12 years of diverse marketing experience spanning retail, nonprofit, construction and legal industries, Jen brings a wealth of knowledge and versatility to her role.
With a strong background in content marketing, graphic design and social media management, she enjoys creating compelling and impactful content that showcases the firm's values, expertise and achievements. Jen is a passionate communicator and empathetic listener who believes in the power of people to communicate and influence.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Strauss Troy
Follow Strauss Troy on LinkedIn, Facebook, X and Instagram
Connect with Jennifer Gault on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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With endless amounts of stimuli constantly grabbing for our attention, convincing audiences to read complex technical information can be a hard sell. As Kleinschmidt’s marketing and communications director, GinaRenee Autrey pursues opportunities where her engineers can blend creativity and technical expertise. Their goal isn’t to merely distribute information, but rather to inspire audiences to want to learn.
In this episode, GinaRenee discusses how engineering firms can think outside the box to captivate their audiences’ attention, including sharing Kleinschmidt’s recent success with a Shakespeare-inspired article on dam decommissioning. She also reflects on the importance of marketing engineering firms by offering clients easy-to-understand solutions to their complex problems.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWhat trends are influencing how engineering firms market their services
How prioritizing a creative execution has enhanced Kleinschmidt’s approach to thought leadership
What B2B buyers care about when choosing an engineering partner and how to align your marketing strategy to meet their needs
How to use webinars to position employees and firms as experts in niche engineering topics
How Kleinschmidt’s marketing team supports and trains its engineers to become better speakers, even when they’re nervous about appearing in front of crowds
Why you should incentivize your field teams to take pictures and videos at jobsites
About our featured guestGinaRenee Autrey is a seasoned marketing maestro with over 24 years of curating and executing comprehensive marketing strategies to elevate business goals. Her approach is results-driven, creative and ever-evolving, aligning with the rapid pace of the A/E/C marketing landscape. GinaRenee has honed a diverse set of skills over the years — from managing successful marketing initiatives and campaigns to public relations and advertising to implementing strategic projects that have fueled growth in targeted markets.
GinaRenee currently serves as program manager for the Kleinschmidt Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion (JEDI) Council. This role is purpose-driven and close to her heart. GinaRenee is an active member of the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS) and one of the Program Chairs for the 2024 Amplify A|E|C Conference. She is also a member of the Public Relations Society of America (PRSA), and the American Marketing Association (AMA). GinaRenee began her public speaking journey on the stage at the SMPS SERC Conference in 2022. Since then, she’s had the pleasure of engaging audiences at numerous SMPS conferences and webinars, enriching her professional journey even further. GinaRenee hopes to help other marketers through these engagements to realize their full potential and view themselves as “technical experts” in their field.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Kleinschmidt Associates
Follow Kleinschmidt on LinkedIn, X and Instagram
Connect with GinaRenee Autrey on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Read Kleinschmidt’s article, “To Be or Not to Be…That is the Dam Question”
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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On paper, Julia Thomas is a one-woman band as Dean Mead’s marketing director. But in reality, she works in tandem with more than 100 unofficial marketers. Yep — attorneys and staff have a crucial supporting role to play as advocates for their firm and its brand, and Julia has made it her mission to empower them.
In this episode of Spill the Ink, Julia discusses how her approach to legal marketing creates a culture of shared responsibility and reveals what she’s learned about helping busy attorneys stay engaged with community-focused initiatives. And with 20 years of experience in global, national, regional and local marketing roles across the legal, accounting and construction sectors, she’s learned a thing or two.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWhy Dean Mead’s marketing director Julia Thomas views all attorneys and staff as unofficial marketers
About Florida-based Dean Mead, a commercial law firm founded in 1980
What a 20-year career in global, national, regional and local marketing roles in various industries has taught Julia about using internal communications to support external communications — and surviving debates with attorneys
How law firms can approach strategic partnerships in the local community and engage attorneys to participate
Julia’s advice to busy legal professionals pursuing pro bono and community work
Why thought leadership doesn’t necessarily mean writing a long, in-depth article (and, in fact, that’s often less effective)
The impact of reputable law firm awards and rankings in building credibility with prospects
About our featured guestJulia Thomas is Dean Mead’s director of marketing and business development, based in Orlando, Florida. With 20 years of experience designing, implementing and directing initiatives that support consistent internal and external communications, Julia brings a thorough understanding of marketing and business development to the firm. Leveraging her experience serving Fortune 100, national and regional companies, she is the chief marketing strategist for Dean Mead and each of its offices, departments and industry teams. Julia works closely with the president, board, department chairs and industry team leaders to develop and implement marketing and business development activities.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Dean Mead’s website
Follow Dean Mead on LinkedIn, Facebook and X
Connect with Julia Thomas on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Reaching 100 years is a commendable accomplishment for any business and should be celebrated to the fullest extent. As Dana Galvin Lancour leads Barton Malow’s centennial marketing campaign, she joins us to discuss the challenges and opportunities in marketing a legacy construction firm with deep community roots.
In this episode of Spill the Ink, Michelle interviews Dana, Barton Malow’s VP of branding and communications, about the strategic planning behind the firm’s 100th anniversary. They discuss how Barton Malow structures its team to facilitate cross-functional collaboration, the firm’s forward-thinking approach to thought leadership and the importance of getting internal communications right. Dana also opens up about her 17 years working in construction marketing and explains how participating in the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS) shaped her career.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnAbout Barton Malow
Insights from Dana’s rich career managing and marketing Barton Malow’s legacy brand
Do’s, don’ts and ideas when planning your firm’s anniversaries and milestones
Why Barton Malow decided to capture its history with a digital archive program
How to encourage cross-functional collaboration across multiple offices, geographies and brand families while maintaining messaging consistency
The ways Barton Malow demonstrates its values (rather than simply talking about them)
Using thought leadership to advance your firm’s strategic business goals, including how to improve buy-in with busy subject-matter experts
The importance of internal communications, especially for geographically dispersed teams
How Barton Malow is integrating artificial intelligence into its work
Why making time to actively participate in professional organizations, such as SMPS, is a worthwhile investment
About our featured guestAs Barton Malow Holdings’ Vice President of Branding and Communications, Dana Galvin Lancour provides creative and strategic direction to the Barton Malow Family of Companies’ brands while overseeing a talented team of marketing and communication professionals across North America. She brings a vision that inspires her team to continually strengthen Barton Malow’s brand, reputation and unique approach to marketing Barton Malow’s services.
Throughout her 17-year tenure, Dana has reimagined the company’s marketing strategy, helping modernize and bring the enterprise’s marketing and communications efforts to the forefront of the industry. She helped implement an email marketing platform to design and optimize targeted campaigns, redesign the Barton Malow intranet and create a vision for the first all-employee conference.
Dana is a certified professional services marketer (CPSM) and a dedicated member of the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS), acquiring the prestigious Fellow designation in 2013. She was appointed as President of the Board of Directors in 2022, where she plays a key role in ensuring the organization continues to positively impact marketing and business development in the industry.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Barton Malow
Follow Barton Malow on Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram
Connect with Dana Galvin Lancour on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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It’s as untraditional as it gets, but having a non-attorney in the driving seat of your law firm can do wonders for streamlining operations, enhancing the client experience and strengthening team culture. But it’s not without its challenges — as our guest discovered when he built a law firm from the ground up (with the help of a team of attorneys) in just two weeks.
Before Jonathan Delk was CEO of Colorado-based JVAM, he was a ski instructor-turned-digital marketer with a Master of Business Administration. In this episode, he tells Michelle Calcote King how he leveraged those skills and experiences to support and enhance the firm’s legal work by finding new ways to innovate and build a team culture that attracts talent from around the country. Jonathan also shares his take on how technology will disrupt the legal industry in the coming years.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnHow Jonathan went from ski instructor to digital marketer to law firm CEO.
About Colorado-based law firm JVAM, which believes in specialization (no one team member should do everything all the time).
The benefits of allowing a non-attorney (or non-practicing attorney) to call the shots.
The biggest hurdles of leading a firm without a law degree, including navigating the occasional, “Wait, you’re not a lawyer?!”
How to obtain buy-in as a non-attorney leader.
Why marketing skills are the special sauce for client experience and firmwide communication.
How artificial intelligence and automation will disrupt how law firms operate.
About our featured guestJonathan Delk is responsible for all facets of JVAM’s business outside the practice of law, including general management of finance, human resources, location management, information services and business development. Specializing in legal management, Jonathan works to keep JVAM at the forefront of practice management and an employer of choice in the legal field.
Jonathan attended the University of Colorado, Boulder, where he double majored in Economics and Political Science. Later, he earned a Master of Business Administration at Colorado State University, focusing heavily on finance and leadership.
Before starting his career in the legal industry, Jonathan worked in the outdoor industry as a professional ski and snowboard instructor, and a trail guide and coach for downhill and cross-country mountain biking. For years, he tallied 200-plus days a year on snow between Aspen, Colorado and Queenstown, New Zealand. Now, he takes his ski days with his wife, Erin, and daughter, Amelia.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out JVAM
Follow JVAM on LinkedIn and Facebook
Connect with Jonathan Delk on LinkedIn and X
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn.
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Michael Mantese brought a fresh perspective to Eskew Dumez Ripple, a nationally recognized architecture firm, when he joined in 2017. Coming from a New York City digital marketing and advertising agency, he brought a data-driven, people-centric approach to the firm’s marketing and content creation strategies. As marketing director, he leads the firm with the same values and elevates its brand storytelling through his photographer’s eye.
In this episode, Michelle chats with Michael about tools and strategies for cutting-edge architecture marketing, content ideation and amplification, and how marketing departments can leverage analytics and technology. Michael also shares how his photography background influences his marketing work, including ways marketers can collaborate with photographers to tell better project stories.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho is Michael Mantese is
About Eskew Dumez Ripple
The growing importance of data analytics in effective marketing
Insights into Eskew Dumez’s research-based content ideation approach
How to repurpose project case studies and proposals into omnichannel content
Ways thought leadership can support proposal writing (and vice-versa)
How Eskew Dumez leverages technology as a competitive advantage
New ideas for leveraging photography to tell better project stories
About our featured guestMichael Mantese brings a storyteller’s craft to communicating Eskew Dumez Ripple’s brand identity and mission. A writer at heart, he expands this skillset with a background in user experience design — letting market insights, data and analytics drive his decision-making, rather than assuming he knows what every audience is thinking. He augments this storytelling with a keen visual eye and maintains a particular fondness for photography and typography.
Before joining Eskew Dumez Ripple, Michael worked in the tech industry, designing digital experiences for some of the world’s biggest brands, including Marriott, Amex and City University of New York (CUNY).
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Eskew Dumez Ripple
Follow Eskew Dumez Ripple on X, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram
Connect with Michael Mantese on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Read the latest on EDR+
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Reports of attorneys grappling with issues like anxiety, depression and substance abuse remain alarmingly high as the legal industry continues fighting for ground in the battle against mental health and well-being issues.
This Mental Health Awareness Month and Well-Being in Law Week, we’ve invited well-being consultant Tara Antonipillai to discuss the state of the legal industry and actionable strategies law firms can implement to expand wellness programs and enact positive change at their firms.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Tara Antonipillai is
About Cultivate and The Institute for Well-Being in Law
The common mental health challenges attorneys and legal professionals experience
Practical strategies for sparking positive change at your law firm
How to spot signs that your attorneys may be struggling, and what you can do to help
Tips for leaders on fostering a supportive work environment
Why following through is the most crucial step in promoting mental health at work
What loneliness in the workplace looks like and how it affects attorneys
Whether mental health and well-being programs can influence a firm’s ability to grow business and revenue
About our featured guestThe founder of Cultivate, Tara Antonipillai's experience in professional well-being comes from a career in Big Law, a master's degree in applied psychology and ongoing research in the field. Tara is a consultant, speaker and coach who combines her unique set of skills to introduce topics that include the science of well-being, job satisfaction, communication, stress management, compassionate leadership, mindfulness, resilience, mindset, and engagement and belonging to law firms and other organizations.
Tara received her J.D. and undergraduate degree from Georgetown University and was a tax lawyer at Arnold & Porter’s DC office. She also holds a master’s degree in applied positive psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. Tara is a certified leadership and performance coach through Brown University. She is also a certified yoga instructor and meditation teacher, as well as a certified Mental Health First Aid instructor.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Cultivate and The Institute for Well-Being in Law
Follow Cultivate on LinkedIn
Follow The Institute for Well-Being in Law on X, LinkedIn and Instagram
Connect with Tara Antonipillai on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Soon after starting as an intern architect, Heather Blazi realized the job didn’t spark joy quite the way she imagined while watching HGTV as a kid. So she adjusted her path. Today, she’s the marketing director at Pfluger Architects, a design firm specializing in the education market.
Heather joins us to discuss owning your niche, market expansion and building an effective team with diverse skills. She shares why Pfluger encourages architects to use LinkedIn and how a strong brand supports proposal development, boosts employee engagement and amplifies recruitment efforts.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Heather Blazi is
About Pfluger Architects
How Heather’s architecture background influences her work as a marketer
Insights into the growing intersection between marketing and business development
The benefits of niche marketing
How to effectively leverage your niche during proposal writing and market expansion
Why use thought leadership to market your team’s knowledge, expertise and capabilities
The importance of a strong firm brand and positioning
About Pfluger’s recent successes with strategic email marketing
Why Pfluger encourages its architects to use LinkedIn
How people-centric social media posts aid in attracting prospective clients and architecture talent
About our featured guestHeather Blazi is the principal-in-charge of marketing at Pfluger Architects, a firm on a mission to inspire people to create a more meaningful human experience. With nearly 10 years of experience, Heather has planned and executed marketing initiatives contributing to Pfluger's growth and expansion across Texas. Beyond the world of architectural marketing, Heather has two daughters who bring boundless inspiration (and chaos) to her every day, reminding her of the importance of creativity, adaptability and being open to a fresh perspective. Heather enjoys volunteering and crafting anytime she can. With a heart for service, a commitment to her family and a flair for strategic thinking, she hopes to continue making a positive impact on those around her.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Pfluger Architects
Follow Pfluger Architects on X, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram
Connect with Heather Blazi on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Law firms are relationship-driven businesses — and not only in terms of attorney-client relationships. Aricia Gallaher’s recipe for success is to approach marketing with an understanding that nurturing connections is kingpin, both internally and externally.
Aricia is the marketing director at Chambliss, Bahner & Stophel, a full-service law firm in Chattanooga. In this episode, Aricia reflects on the lessons learned during a two-decade career and the role her servant leadership approach has played in the firm’s growth. Host Michelle Calcote King also talks with her about facilitating thought leadership, marketing technology, LinkedIn for attorneys, and maximizing industry networks like Meritas.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Aricia Gallaher is
About Chambliss, Bahner & Stophel
How to capture a distinctive brand on your firm’s website
Ideas to facilitate content development with attorneys
How strategic partnerships can benefit a firm’s presence
The benefits of thought leadership as a long-term strategy
Why law firms need to prioritize marketing automation
LinkedIn’s vital role in growing law firm business
The ways industry networks like Meritas can bolster a marketing strategy
About our featured guestWith over two decades of experience in marketing operations, communications, public relations, event management, business development, and client relationship management, Aricia stands as a seasoned and versatile professional adept at navigating the intricacies of today's dynamic business landscape. Throughout her career, Aricia has consistently demonstrated a remarkable ability to drive impactful results and foster enduring connections. She has collaborated with a diverse range of clientele, including some of the nation’s largest health systems. She has leveraged her comprehensive knowledge to orchestrate successful marketing campaigns, spearhead innovative communication strategies and execute high-profile events that resonate with target audiences. As a visionary leader, Aricia has played a pivotal role in shaping the growth trajectories of numerous organizations, utilizing her strategic acumen to identify and capitalize on emerging opportunities. Her keen understanding of market trends, coupled with her exceptional interpersonal skills, has enabled her to cultivate strong client relationships and foster long-term partnerships built on trust and mutual success.
Aricia's passion for innovation and process enhancement is evident as she diligently uncovers business opportunities, executes strategies with precision and champions customer service excellence. Her relentless pursuit of innovation and her ability to adapt to evolving industry landscapes make her a driving force in any team or organization she is a part of. Aricia consistently pushes boundaries and delivers unparalleled value in each project, showcasing her enthusiasm and commitment to excellence in marketing and business development. She holds a proven track record of achievement and a reputation for excellence, making her a trusted advisor and leader in her field. As she continues to make strides in her professional journey, she remains dedicated to driving positive change and shaping the future of marketing, communications, business development, and — most importantly — the client experience.
When offering advice to aspiring professionals, Aricia emphasizes the importance of seeking out strong mentors. She underscores the value of cultivating connections with individuals at various stages of their professional journey to gain invaluable insights and guidance.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Chambliss, Bahner & Stophel
Follow Chambliss, Bahner & Stophel on Facebook and LinkedIn
Connect with Aricia Gallaher on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Professional services buyers want to see more than simple boilerplate to inform their decision about why they should hire you. Marketing needs to be tailored as much as possible to address their specific needs and concerns.
Derek Goodroe, marketing director at Ashley McGraw Architects, talks about why he invests time and resources into carefully tailoring each request for proposal (RFP) — even if it takes hours to get it right. He and host Michelle Calcote King discuss the evolution of the architecture industry and the marketer’s role. They also cover the tools Ashley McGraw uses to expand reach and impact, including email marketing and industry conferences.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Derek Goodroe is
About Ashley McGraw Architects and the Vaysen Studio
How competition for architecture services has intensified over time
The challenges marketing departments, especially small teams, face when writing proposals
What elements make an RFP response more competitive
Best practices for crafting a tailored proposal that sells
Tips for collaborating with architects to elevate the quality of your RFP responses
How to leverage conferences as a business development and marketing tool
Better ways to use email to connect with clients and prospects
The marketing department’s influence on firm culture and employee engagement
About our featured guestDerek Goodroe is the director of marketing at Ashley McGraw Architects. He has been with Ashley McGraw since 2010 and cumulatively has over 19 years of marketing experience, including 16 years in professional services.
His strategic vision and approach to marketing and business development have been pivotal in steering Ashley McGraw Architects' growth and presence, particularly within the firm's Syracuse, New York, and Washington, DC, offices. While overseeing the development and delivery of a fully integrated marketing strategy for the firm, Derek is also dedicated to driving business development, fostering a culture of collaboration and ensuring the firm's values are reflected in every marketing message, client interaction and proposal pursuit. Derek is a member of the Upstate New York chapter of the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS).
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Ashley McGraw Architects and Vaysen Studio
Follow Ashley McGraw on Facebook, LinkedIn, X and Instagram
Connect with Derek Goodroe on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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The legal industry isn’t known for its trailblazing progress on the diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) front — but it is improving. Many law firms are integrating DEI strategy into their core business model, and the benefits of this shift are touching nearly every area, from prospecting and marketing to recruitment and talent development.
In this episode, Lee Watts joins us to talk about her new role as Director of Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at Bass, Berry & Sims. She discusses the firm’s strategy and reflects on how DEI influences a firm’s brand, reputation and competitive advantage.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Lee Watts is
About Bass, Berry & Sims
How DEI has changed over the years
DEI’s influence on law firm brand and reputation
How to be a DEI advocate within your own circle of influence
The importance of analyzing all business matters through a DEI lens
The potential impacts of emerging lawsuits targeting firm DEI initiatives
About Bass, Berry & Sims’ active programs, including its affinity groups and educational partnerships
About our featured guestLee Ashby Watts is the Director of Diversity, Equity & Inclusion (DEI) at Bass, Berry & Sims. She works to advance diversity, equity and inclusion and to support the recruitment, retention and advancement of underrepresented lawyers and professionals. Lee has over 20 years of experience in the legal industry, helping law firms, attorneys and legal professionals develop and implement strategic plans.
Lee brings a keen understanding of communications and client service, having worked in legal marketing and business development for most of her career. Prior to joining Bass, Berry & Sims, she led a consulting firm where she coached, trained and consulted with hundreds of leaders. Previously, she served in a variety of roles within law firms, including as the chief marketing officer at global law firm Smith, Gambrell & Russell, LLP for nearly a decade.
Lee is a certified business development coach as well as a frequent facilitator and speaker, addressing personal branding, public speaking, marketing, diversity and inclusion. She sits on the board of the Legal Marketing Association Southeast and the nonprofit organization Kate’s Club. She is also a member of the professional women’s network CHIEF, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated, Junior League of Atlanta and ColorComm. Lee is an Ohio University graduate and earned her MBA from Georgia State University.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Bass, Berry & Sims
Follow Bass, Berry & Sims on X, Facebook and LinkedIn
Connect with Lee Watts on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Jill Davis leads the marketing department at Cline Design, an interdisciplinary architecture, planning and interior design firm in North Carolina. She recently guided the 35-year-old firm through a successful rebrand and website redesign and is constantly re-examining Cline’s marketing strategy to meet evolving client needs.
In this episode, Jill and host Michelle Calcote King discuss Cline’s marketing strategy through the years, including its 2023 rebrand. They also cover how to encourage architects, designers and other subject-matter experts to contribute to marketing initiatives that showcase the firm’s expertise and culture, such as thought leadership and social media.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Jill Davis is
About Cline Design
Why Cline decided to do a rebrand and how the marketing team approached the project
Which marketing tools are the most impactful to Cline’s strategy and why
Why invest in thought leadership and examples of common challenges
Tactics for engaging busy subject-matter experts in content creation and marketing initiatives, including thought leadership and social media
When to use your internal team to produce video content versus hiring a videographer
How to integrate a public relations strategy into your communications plan
The benefits of professional organizations like the Society for Marketing Professional Services
About our featured guestJill Davis has over two decades of expertise in marketing, including over 10 years of specializing in the architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) industry. Her journey in this sector began in 2013 with HOK in St. Louis, where she played a pivotal role in securing high-profile projects nationwide thanks to her innovative strategies and collaboration with both regional and senior leaders.
As a Principal and Marketing Director at Cline, Jill spearheads marketing initiatives and strategic planning. Her focus is on nurturing growth and exploring new opportunities that promise a bright future for the firm. At Cline, she finds daily inspiration in the creativity and insight of her colleagues, a talented team of marketers, architects, designers and branding professionals.
Jill's commitment extends beyond her professional sphere. In St. Louis, she actively participated in the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS), taking on various leadership roles. Her dedication to SMPS continued through her moves to Raleigh and Charlotte, where she serves as the 2024 President-Elect of the Charlotte chapter. Additionally, her alma mater, the University of Missouri-St. Louis, benefited from her contributions as a member of the marketing advisory board, where she mentored students and engaged in the Midwest Digital Marketing Conference (MDMC) scholarship committee.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Cline Design Associates
Follow Cline Design on Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram
Connect with Jill Davis on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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You don’t need to work in an extremely visual industry to create video content that drives revenue and brings in new business. You don’t even need to hire a fancy, high-tech production team.
Philip Fairley helps law firms and attorneys craft and execute video marketing strategies that resonate with target audiences and yield ROI. He and host Michelle Calcote King discuss how to get started, including equipment, where to find regular content ideas, how to set up a shooting location, and the best distribution channels. They cover how law firms can use videos to create touch points with prospects and explain the different strategies behind lead nurturing and lead generation videos.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Philip Fairley is
About The Rainmaker Institute and Rainalytics®
The types of videos that work (and don’t work) for law firms
Different methods to shoot, use and distribute short-form and long-form videos
Essential video equipment to get you started
How to find content ideas
Best practices for scripting, recording and distributing videos
About our featured guestPhilip Fairley is president and owner of The Rainmaker Institute, the nation’s largest law firm marketing company that focuses exclusively on client generation, lead conversion and data analytics. During his time at Rainmaker, he co-developed Turbine®, the only software platform that automates the intake process, and Rainalytics®, the only tool that automatically measures all law firm data.
Philip holds degrees from Northwestern University, Wheaton College and Keller Graduate School, is an NCAA Division I National Debate Champion, and is a recognized expert on intake, lead conversion and innovative video marketing. His and Rainmaker’s expertise have been noted and quoted in the ABA Journal, Entrepreneur, Fortune Small Business, Harvard Management Update, Business Advisor, Chicago Tribune, Crain’s Chicago Business, and Attorney at Law.
Prior to owning Rainmaker, he was the founder and CEO of two successful companies that specialized in legal tech, cybersecurity and communications. He is married with three children and enjoys the Arizona lifestyle, mountain biking and coaching youth sports.
Rainmaker has helped more than 23,000 attorneys and law firms grow their businesses by learning and implementing its proven marketing and intake strategies.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out The Rainmaker Institute
Follow The Rainmaker Institute on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram
Connect with Philip Fairley on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on X and LinkedIn
Download The Rainmaker’s YouTube Optimization Guide
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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The architecture, engineering and construction industry is severely lagging behind in diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI). Black workers represent 13% of the industry’s workforce but only hold 7% of its jobs. Meanwhile, white workers comprise 77% of the workforce and hold over 80% of all AEC jobs.
AEC Unites, a nonprofit membership organization, was founded in 2023 to advance DEI in the industry. The organization seeks to be a resource for Black talent to identify career paths and leadership opportunities and to create sustainable opportunities for Black-owned businesses to grow and thrive.
In this episode, Michelle Calcote King invites AEC Unites Executive Director Tia Perry to discuss the organization’s mission and ongoing initiatives to help workers and businesses and reflect on the challenges AEC firms face in closing diversity gaps.
(Editor’s note: This interview was recorded in November 2023 and published in 2024. When Michelle and Tia say “this year” and “next year,” they’re referring to 2023 and 2024, respectively.)
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Tia Perry is
About AEC Unites and the organization’s mission
AEC Unites’ ongoing initiatives, including for Black talent, Black-owned businesses and student populations
DEI issues that are prominent in the AEC industry
What resources exist for workers and businesses
How diversity gaps can impact a company’s safety culture
How to improve hiring, advancement and retention practices
Impacts of unconscious bias on hiring and promotion practices, including during succession planning
About our featured guestA diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) leader with over 17 years of association experience, Tia Perry is tasked with bringing the vision for AEC Unites to life by driving equity and inclusion for Black talent and Black-owned businesses in the architecture, engineering and construction community.
Tia led DEI initiatives as a director at Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC), providing consultative support and leadership to ABC chapters and member companies. Perry began her association career in 2015 with the Transportation Intermediaries Association.
Tia is an enthusiastic mentor, volunteer and training partner in skilled trades education with the D.C. Construction Trades Foundation and is a youth basketball coach. She earned a bachelor’s degree in psychology from Old Dominion University and recently completed the diversity, equity and inclusion certificate program at the University of South Florida. Perry is also a certified unconscious bias trainer through FranklinCovey.
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Running a business is hard. Now try being a lawyer on top of it all.
Having spent 20 years helping law firm owners and senior partners implement strategies that turn their firms into thriving businesses, Gary Mitchell has a treasure trove of knowledge and advice to share about the subject. He and host Michelle Calcote King discuss the many facets of running an effective law firm business, including best practices for efficient management and streamlining operations, leadership excellence, succession planning, and employee engagement and retention.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho is Gary Mitchell
About OnTrac Coach and its coaching programs
Advice for managing partners on how to amplify their impact
Why standardized processes and systems are crucial to law firm growth, scaling and profitability
Common challenges law firms face with employee engagement and how to overcome them
When is the best time to think about succession planning
How to successfully transition lateral hires (and mistakes to avoid)
Common onboarding mistakes that can decrease legal talent retention
About our featured guestGary is a highly regarded author, business coach and consultant specializing in professional service firms and small businesses. With over 18 years of experience, he helps his clients unlock their full potential and achieve personal, financial and professional freedom.
Gary's approach leads his clients to unparalleled success in growth and profitability using proven strategies that encompass business development, HR, leadership, management, marketing, processes, systems, and time and organizational management. He continues to contribute to several business publications and journals and is frequently called upon to guest appear on business podcasts. Gary hosts his own podcast, “The LawBiz™.” He can be reached at [email protected]
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out OnTrac Coach
Follow OnTrac Coach on Facebook and LinkedIn
Connect with Gary Mitchell on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn
Listen to Michelle answer questions about PR for law firms on The LawBiz™ Podcast
Gary’s book recommendation: “Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones”
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
Transcript[00:00:00] Gary Mitchell: If growth is important, if profitability is important and you do nothing else, do this well.
[00:00:07] Announcer: Welcome to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink, where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now let's get started with the show.
[00:00:24] Michelle Calcote King: Hey everyone, I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host and I'm also the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink.com.
As we all know, running a business isn't easy, much less when you do it alone. And with so many plates to juggle, managing a law firm can leave many law firm leaders stretched very thin. And the industry is evolving so quickly that many law firms find themselves falling behind even as they're working to catch up. So we're going to talk to the perfect person to discuss this topic.
His name is Gary Mitchell. He's an author, business coach and consultant specializing in professional services firms. Gary Mitchell. And he also hosts “The LawBiz Podcast," which I've been very lucky to be a guest on. Gary offers several coaching programs for law firms through his business, OnTrac Coach. We're excited to pick his brain today. So welcome, Gary.
[00:01:18] Gary Mitchell: Thank you, Michelle. It's great to do this reciprocally.
[00:01:20] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah it's fun. I'm excited about this.
Well, let's start with telling me a little bit about what you do at OnTrac Coach and your background.
[00:01:27] Gary Mitchell: Michelle, well, it's interesting how I got started with coaching lawyers — initially lawyers. I've always kind of been predicated to a career helping people. I found myself being a campaign manager for a lawyer. I had a lot of political experience and background, and I got a call one day and this lawyer candidate needed some help. And so I went and met with him and he was green. I mean, a coach's dream, really, because blank canvas and he was very eager to learn. And so I ran his nomination. He won the nomination, which in the U. S. is kind of like a primary, right? To get to be the candidate. This is on a federal level. So I became his campaign manager reluctantly for the federal campaign. And I swear I had the greatest 'Aha' moment of my life. Instead of being the person, now I was the person behind the person. And to watch him grow and evolve and become an amazing candidate partly due to what I gave him was like, "Wow!"
And during that experience, one of his friends came up to me after a campaign meeting and — a former lawyer — and said, "Gary, I've seen what you've done. You have this ability to help highly intellectual people with skills they're not accustomed to. You should look at the legal industry."
And after I picked my job off the floor, I began about nine months of research. I'm in Vancouver. There wasn't anything going on here. So I looked at what was going on in the U. S. and business coaching was already a fact of life back in 2006. Not so much in Canada. But then serendipity came in and the first chapter of the Legal Marketing Association outside of the United States was formed right here in Vancouver.
[00:03:10] Michelle Calcote King: Oh, very cool.
[00:03:11] Gary Mitchell: Yeah, it was. I mean, it just fell into place. I'm in the midst of my research. I went and met a number of people who I'm still in touch with. In fact, many colleagues, and then I got on the board and then a couple of months later, my first article written for a legal publication. And we spoke about this when you guested on my podcast. My first article was about media relations and lawyers. So it all just came into place. So then I started coaching lawyers and I haven't looked back.
What I do at OnTrac in a nutshell, I help my clients get more freedom. More freedom in their career with fulfillment and control, more financial freedom, more life freedom. And I do this through helping them with BD, HR, leadership, marketing, and growth and profitability. That's in a nutshell what I do.
[00:03:59] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that's great. I know a small business owner myself, and I know law firms have very unique challenges they face.
On your website under your managing partner growth program, you mentioned small yet strategic and targeted improvements. Can you walk me through what that means and give me examples of that?
[00:04:19] Gary Mitchell: Well, first of all, what I do in the Managing Partner Growth Program is it's really focused on the managing partner. His or her role, and what impact they can have within the whole firm. So I start out with a SWOT analysis with them, not the firm. With them individually. So we look at strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. And I've been around long enough to remember when the old school of thoughts around SWOT was, you know, you pick up your socks with your weaknesses, you improve them.
And then along came a gentleman by the name of Steve Jobs and turned that theory upside down. His philosophy was forget about your weaknesses, focus on your strengths, become a master and build a team around you that fill in the holes left by your weaknesses. This has been a very successful approach.
So I help law firm leaders identify what are their strengths, then help them build a team around them. Right? So that's leadership. And to fill that out, building the team is critical. And also very important is balancing their time and efforts between managing the firm and managing their own practice. In most cases, these people are still serving their own clients, not to mention growing their own practice. It's like they have two full-time jobs. So that's a big part of it.
Small improvements. My philosophy has always been, it's incredible what you can do when you make small, incremental improvements because they compound. When we think of change, and people fear change because "Oh my God, it's so much, so big." It all happens at once. Most effective change happens slowly, methodically, strategically, in small steps. And I remember having one client tell me after we worked together, and I think he posted in a testimonial, "Gary showed us how to make these incremental steps, which had a profound impact once they were compounded."
So those are on, like, leadership, team building, delegating, client management, and communication, and workflow and process. Those are some of the areas making just simple tweaks, like team communication and workflow. When there's a team of lawyers and paralegals working together, [who are] meeting regularly and during that time, it was still Zoom because we were still in the pandemic, right? But meeting, communicating regularly, where are we at with this file? What are next steps? So everybody's, you know, talking together. And it's not just law firms, it's in general business, communication can be one of the biggest challenges, and it isn't that difficult. The solutions are simple. So those are some of the things, and those all impact culture ultimately.
[00:06:56] Michelle Calcote King: I love it.
[00:06:57] Gary Mitchell: Yeah.
[00:06:57] Michelle Calcote King: Well, I'm glad you mentioned processes because I wanted to ask, what are some of those systems and processes that you see in law firms that might hold them back from growing the business?
[00:07:08] Gary Mitchell: Well, actually, that's a funny question, I think, because it's the lack of the processes that hold them back in business. So instead of focusing on negative, let me turn it around and focus on positive. It's part of my DNA. I guess maybe how I found myself to be a coach. And I'll use a client example. Two co-founders, two women co-founders of a firm, now it must be 15 years back. I worked with them just after their first year. So they're still in startup, but they made some mistakes. They got some successes. They got some wins. I helped them with some small systems and processes, and then they took what little I, and I mean little, what little advice I gave them, and they actually were guests on my podcast recently, they systemized everything, templated everything, processes everything, streamlined everything. So workflow, you know, when you're doing a task over and over again, and this has been-- they've been talking about this since I started coaching in 2006, is create templates and systems so you can plug-and-play. New employees come in, new people come in, whether they be lawyers or paralegals, and there's a system and a process, and everyone's doing the same thing. Well, lo and behold, COVID hit, and then both of them went on mat leave, and one had a very serious health scare. And because those systems and templates were in place, they not only survived through these challenging times, they've continued to thrive. And, talk about freedom, they're both parents, they're both moms, and they leave their office every day at 4:30, and they don't work weekends. That's because of the systems and processes, right?
When I'm working with clients, I ask them, "Have you ever seen the movie, The Founder?" It's the story about McDonald's. It's the story about the guy after the founders came along and put the systems and processes in place, which allowed them to grow in scale. So it's not only, yeah, I know everybody talks about growth, it's simplifying things for everyone. For the lawyers, for the paralegals, most importantly, for the clients.
[00:09:09] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. McDonald's is that great example of how systemizing things and, you know, developing those processes can really boost a business. You go into a McDonald's anywhere and you know exactly what you're going to get.
[00:09:23] Gary Mitchell: I definitely have had pushback with lawyers over the years. "What are you comparing us to hamburgers?" No. Your product, your widget is you, the lawyers, the paralegals, your people, your talent. So yeah, okay. I'm kind of comparing you to hamburgers because that's their widget, that's their product, but I think to date they are still the most successful franchise on the planet and it's because that's what they did better than anyone else. And then everyone who came after them copied them, right? And it's making sure that everyone's on the same page, right? I don't mean creating robots. We tell people to have personality and their own styles, right? But when you're doing something over and over and over again, and people are recreating the wheel every step of the way, no one wins, especially the clients. If your clients aren't happy, if your clients aren't really over the moon with your services, you're not going to stay in business very long. You know, I get pushback, but when I use analogies, Michelle, I try to keep things where people can relate, right? Everybody knows McDonald's.
[00:10:27] Michelle Calcote King: Well, the example I often use when I get that pushback from attorneys about, you know, highly customized and things like this is sort of I think there's a book out there called "The Checklist Manifesto," and it's surgeons. So these are surgeons who stabilize their success rates, their infection rates went down, their success rates went up when they just used checklists. So yeah, no profession can't be improved with some sort of process and templates and checklists.
I noticed that you also help firms with employee engagement. Can you tell me a little bit about the issues that some law firms face around engagement?
[00:11:06] Gary Mitchell: I'm not going to call out lawyers as being the only demons in this area. It's humans. It's humans.
[00:11:12] Michelle Calcote King: Very much so. Yeah.
[00:11:13] Gary Mitchell: We all want to press the easy button. We want the one-size-fits-all, right? It's easier. No. There is no one-size-fits-all. There's two things I would say: no one-size-fits-all and no sink-or-swim. And this is where they drop the ball and all businesses drop the ball. Like, when you put a puzzle together, Michelle, not one piece is exactly the same. And yet some people will still try and force those pieces in to make the puzzle come together. That's HR, that's team building, that's organizing any group of people beyond one. Once you go beyond one, you've got to look at individual strengths.
And another thing is empowering and engaging. I'm going to give you an example. A senior partner I worked with recently was coming back to the practice after leave, and he was looking for more fulfillment in his career. And it's ironic what happened because through — I spoke about delegating earlier — through the constant, constant broken record of me on coaching calls telling him about delegating and he got it and he built a reputation within the firm as the partner to go to. The associates talk, right? He engaged them, he empowered them, he mentored them, he got them involved in the client relationships, he took them to client events. So, now the associates, instead of being, you know, in the corner at their desk, doing just the grunt work, never having any face time with clients, never having any part of the relationship, are now fully engaged. Well, how hard do you think it was for him to build his team after that?
[00:12:53] Michelle Calcote King: Right.
[00:12:53] Gary Mitchell: He was like a magnet. And that is, again, that's not rocket science. That's pretty simple. And fortunately, his firm remunerates for that. For leadership, for mentoring. And so, while his individual numbers declined, his group numbers flourished. And of course, because he's spending more time. Now what happens there, clients are getting better value because you've got a second-year, third-year or fourth-year associate doing the work that previously might have been done by a partner hoarding the time and hours. So the client's happy. You've got an associate who is learning and growing in their career and in a part of the process, so they're winning. And the leader, the partner's winning because his group is winning. So the firm is winning, right?
[00:13:42] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:43] Gary Mitchell: So, I mean, I just think there's a couple of simple things. Employee engagement is, I'd say, in the top five where improvements made to have astronomical positives and that's large, large or small firms. I've seen it in both.
[00:13:57] Michelle Calcote King: I can definitely understand that. And it's not a lawyer's fault. Often it's due to the nature of how firms are structured, the traditional nature of workflow within a law firm. It doesn't lend itself to collaboration very well there. So yeah, that's really important.
[00:14:13] Gary Mitchell: Part of what I do sometimes is encourage people to follow their own instincts. And his own instinct was this is where he wanted to go and I kept telling him, "That is the most successful business model." Okay, you're here — and this could be a practice group, or industry group, or the entire firm. You're here, and then you build your organization and team wide and deep, right? And so, gradually in that process, you're doing less and less of the actual legal work. You always want to be doing some of it, right? Be frontline working with clients, but less and less and focus more on the training and grooming of your people and the client management as well, making sure the clients are happy. But he had an inclination to go that way. So that helps. And as you say, most firms are not structured that way. So it's a kind of tug-of-war, right? Another challenge.
[00:15:08] Michelle Calcote King: You know, the other challenge that many law firms are facing today is succession planning, and I noticed that you help firms with that, which I can see as a critical area and something they would need help with. So when is the right time firms should be thinking about succession planning?
[00:15:25] Gary Mitchell: I'd say it's never too early to start thinking about succession planning. It should be a perpetual, constant motion. Let's use a large firm, for example. It's more bureaucratic. You've got more owners, more voices, more. But there should be a timeframe and a revolving system, in my opinion, where, you know, a managing partner is coming in for a set mandate. Because from my experience also, it's rare that a managing partner wants to stay in that position for the rest of their career.
[00:15:56] Michelle Calcote King: Right.
[00:15:57] Gary Mitchell: I've actually worked with managing partners where they transitioned back to just managing, growing their own practice after several years at the helm. Again, there is no one-size-fits-all, but consider a time limit or a term everything's flexible and the process is always moving so that when that managing partner is at the helm, they're already starting to identify and groom upcoming leaders that demonstrate the skills, demonstrate the willingness and interest in taking on leadership — not everyone does, not everyone does, right? Again we're not all the same. Firms, especially, again, they try to do everything the same for everyone. And it's like, they don't spend enough time working with the individual strengths of people, and that's how you build the most successful teams, right?
I could use all kinds of sports analogies, but there's probably a lot of people maybe listening that are not that into sports so I'll spare them. But it's like putting a sports team together, right? Not everyone is the goalie. I'm using hockey. Hockey is going on right now, but the biggest mistake is not planning at all. That's the biggest mistake.
And you know, in smaller firms, I remember one time-- Like you say, when is the right time? I would say for a smaller firm owner, when you start to be thinking about your next phase of your career whatever you want to call that. You might call it retirement. You might call it next phase. You might call it semi retirement. Again, your choice. When you start thinking about it. That's the time to start planning.
I remember having a client years ago and she approached me and we got started and she said, "Well, I have applied to become a provincial court judge." In Canada, you don't get elected. You apply through the process. "But that's not going to happen. So let's get started on this." Well, nine months later, it happened and there she is. And we had just begun that process. Now, she didn't walk away empty-handed. She was able to sell some of her book but had we started working, say, three years prior to that, she would have increased the value of the firm, she would have been able to put all those systems processes in place, templates to make the firm more profitable, scale it up, make it more attractive for an outside buyer, and what we were doing at the time was actually grooming from within for someone to take over succession. In her case, it wasn't bad news. She wanted to become a judge. So she became a judge.
But like really, I mean, I look at so many situations where the small firm owners walk away. And like, they haven't planned ahead long enough to put those systems-- What somebody is looking for as an outside buyer is a turnkey business. As much as possible, they want to come in and take over, do the client work, and it's already a well-oiled machine. And if you're just starting to think about it Tuesday and you want to retire next month, that doesn't leave you enough time.
[00:18:56] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. And that all ties in with the systemizing the processes. That's all critical.
[00:19:04] Gary Mitchell: Everything does. Growth. Profitability. Everybody's talking about revenue. Most business owners focus everything on revenue. What about profitability, right? If you keep growing your revenues, but your profitability is not increasing, where are you going wrong? Well, in most cases, you don't have those systems and processes and templates right there.
[00:19:26] Michelle Calcote King: Exactly.
[00:19:27] Gary Mitchell: They're checks and balances, right? They help people at all levels of the firm do their jobs better, which in turn makes the clients happier.
[00:19:36] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, absolutely.
So we've been talking about transition in the selling process with firms. What are some of the things firms need to think about if they're looking to sell?
[00:19:45] Gary Mitchell: First of all, I'm glad you asked that the way you did because that is not my area of expertise. So, when it gets to that point, or before that point actually, I will introduce them to a firm broker and that firm broker will really help them with the negotiation part. My job really is to get their firm to the place of being a well-oiled machine, turnkey operation, profitable. And in turn by doing that, I help that lawyer or the team increase the value of the firm. But then I pass it off to the broker on the negotiation side. I'm still involved in the transitioning, right? Working with the leaving owner and the incoming owner, but the negotiation part I will leave up to other experts.
[00:20:31] Michelle Calcote King: Well, I think what you're doing is the real critical part, which is getting it ready for it to be a sellable product. Without that, you know it's hard to even talk about a sale.
You used the word transition and I wanted to talk about transitions with lateral hires. Why is thinking about lateral hires and how to transition them into the firm important?
[00:20:52] Gary Mitchell: Wow.
I think it's the number one missed growth strategy out there right now and has been for some time. If you look at how much firms spend time, money, energy, money — I'll repeat it again, money — on marketing and trying to get new clients, it's astronomical.
When you are able to attract a high level lateral partner with a book of business — a solid book of business — it makes no sense to me why you would let them sink or swim and flounder away when they arrive at your firm.
There was an article recently written about this. I wish I remembered the name. It was actually the most amazing kind of play on when you see firms who get this right, their profitability increases, like, incredibly at a much higher rate. And the rep for recruiting and retention, which goes back to recruiting, which goes back to growth. I mean, it just, again, like, I see it as an incredible growth opportunity.
Let me tell you this funny story. I was working with a client and I worked with him years ago when he ran his own firm and then he got eaten up by a major national firm, and then he moved to a new major national firm. And we were out for lunch one day and he was telling me about his onboarding experience, his first day — and this goes to what law firms are not getting right. This was a high-profile partner with a million-dollar book. Okay? A million. Coming over and his clients were extremely loyal. They stayed with him from his own firm, moved to the national firm, and they were following him to the next national firm. So that was like a guaranteed million added to the revenues of the firm. That's not shabby, right? And he knows what he's doing. You don't have to provide any training in his field or his lawyering, all of that. But they just let him show up and find his own way around his office.
He said that his assistant was one floor below him. No one, you know, even showed him-- and he has a really good sense of humor. He goes, "No one even showed me where the washroom was." And I mean, that... "Wow" is right, but that happens all the time. So what do you do? The opposite of that. The managing partner greets that new partner at the front door. Day one. "Welcome to the firm." [The managing partner] walks them around the office, introduces them to the other influential or, you know, higher-ranked partners. "This is Bob. This is Sue. It's their first day. We want to welcome them to yada, yada, LLP." They take them to their office, they introduce them to their support staff. These are simple things, right?
That's one thing, but the most critical thing that will also shorten — and this is why it's so important for growth — when that person comes in, it usually takes about two years — this is statistics that have been out there. I don't know where they are, but they have been out there for a long time — almost two years to make them profitable because the large investment-- When you're looking at that high-level, what firms are investing in recruiting, the recruiting fees that they pay to get that, signing bonuses, whatever else it is, the outlay before any money starts coming in is astronomical. So to leave them alone and sink or swim, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Provide support for pennies on the dollar, get them building those internal relationships from day one. Their other partners, the associates, their team, right?
This analogy I think everyone can relate to. Think about if you ever moved when you were a child and you had to go to a new school.
[00:24:29] Michelle Calcote King: Right. Yeah. Right.
[00:24:32] Gary Mitchell: New teacher, new classmates, new curriculum, new policies, new procedures, new everything. That's a lawyer coming to a new firm. So you let them just go or you make them feel a part of it from day one. And again, what I do and work with those lawyers is, step one, is those internal relationships. Theoretically they've already done some well enough to be able to bring some or all of their book with them. So current clients wouldn't be the priority. The new internal relationships with the partners and associates is step one. And then, you know, getting to know the policies, procedures, things like that.
And I've had some amazing stories about transitions. Positive, very positive, where those two years has been cut to less than one year.
[00:25:19] Michelle Calcote King: Oh, that's huge.
[00:25:20] Gary Mitchell: And they're not only profitable, but they're becoming leaders and practice group leaders.
[00:25:24] Michelle Calcote King: Oh, wow.
[00:25:24] Gary Mitchell: It's amazing what's possible, right? Like, if growth is important, if profitability is important. And you do nothing else, do this well. I think that's what the article says, too. Do this well. You know, we can't do everything, right Michelle? Like, you know as well as I do being a business owner, we'd like, we have a likable, like to-do list. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check.
[00:25:47] Michelle Calcote King: So long.
[00:25:48] Gary Mitchell: Right? And it's like, okay, strategically if I can only do one thing, what would it be? I would say, especially because the craziness that we've gone under the last few years with the pandemic, with the great resignation, generational changes, and the--
[00:26:05] Michelle Calcote King: The rise of AI and tech.
[00:26:09] Gary Mitchell: Exactly.
[00:26:09] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. It's just such a disruptive time. Yeah.
[00:26:12] Gary Mitchell: It's a hugely disruptive time, but remember what this is all about. Law firms are people. People are the most difficult part of any business. Technology's easy. Easy peasy. Press a button. Learn a new app. Blah, blah, blah. I don't want to get into AI. Again, I am not an expert. I don't know if there is one yet, but I'm definitely not.
But the people part, if you focus on this one area for growth, you know, and you get a rep, guess how many unhappy lawyers are out there.
[00:26:41] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
[00:26:41] Gary Mitchell: And you make it a warm and fuzzy place? Lucrative. The culture is amazing, people supporting each other, they collaborate, the clients are over the moon? The impact and repercussions are incredible.
[00:26:56] Michelle Calcote King: That's fantastic, yeah. And I can see how that would be a very underlooked area for firms. So, yeah, the upside would be great.
Well, I love to end conversations with sort of a bigger question. So, tell me, are you reading anything interesting right now?
[00:27:12] Gary Mitchell: As a matter of fact I'm listening to...
[00:27:15] Michelle Calcote King: Oh yeah. I do a lot of audiobooks, too. Yes.
[00:27:18] Gary Mitchell: Well, it's like, I don't know about you but having time to just sit and read.
[00:27:24] Michelle Calcote King: Very hard.
[00:27:24] Gary Mitchell: And I think there's a lot of people out there [like that]. So the new audiobook that I'm listening to is called "Atomic Habits."
[00:27:31] Michelle Calcote King: Ah, good one.
[00:27:32] Gary Mitchell: It's interesting that you asked me because everything we've talked about is about new habits. And remember when you asked me at the beginning of this, what do I do? That's such an open question and it's like, well, I do a lot of things, but what does it come down to? It comes down to me teaching my clients new habits and then holding them to account to keep them up long enough where they become second nature.
And those new habits sometimes are uncomfortable at the beginning, as clients will tell me. But they do them long enough, and they not only become comfortable, they can become part of their day. And so I'm loving this book. Everyone should read this book.
[00:28:12] Michelle Calcote King: It's a great one.
[00:28:12] Gary Mitchell: I mean, the analogies-- Yeah. The analogies he uses it's brilliant.
And I love recommending books to other people. So that would be one I would recommend: "Atomic Habits."
[00:28:22] Michelle Calcote King: Same to me. That's my go-to. If I have a problem, I'm like, there's a book to solve this somewhere.
[00:28:27] Gary Mitchell: And it's funny because since I've posted about that everyone, all of my colleagues that have heard of it, "Oh my God. I've read it. It's such a great book. You might also want to listen to this one."
[00:28:37] Michelle Calcote King: Love it.
Well, thank you so much. We've been talking to Gary Mitchell of OnTrac Coach. So Gary, if people want to get in touch, further this conversation with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
[00:28:48] Gary Mitchell: I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on social, mostly LinkedIn, but you can email me directly at [email protected]. But happy to be with you, Michelle, and I look forward to continuing our conversation at some point down the road.
[00:29:05] Michelle Calcote King: Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you.
[00:29:09] Announcer: Thanks for listening to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click “Subscribe” to get future episodes
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Angels sing when marketing and business development (BD) work in harmony. Together, the departments highlight the business’s value at every stage of the buyer’s journey.
Michelle Hamilton, VP of Business Development at Vessel Architecture, talks about how BD and marketing complement each other and how to make genuine connections that go beyond transactional interactions. She and host Michelle Calcote King discuss industry trends, including artificial intelligence (AI) and LinkedIn videos. Hamilton also opens up about her background as a glass sculptor and her recent ADHD diagnosis.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho Michelle Hamilton is
About Vessel Architecture and the architecture firm’s work
Trends in business development and marketing
How business development and marketing intersect and complement each other
Tips for meeting and connecting with architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) professionals
How to use social media to deepen business relationships and create talking points
How Hamilton balances her glass sculpting passion and her work at Vessel Architecture
How Hamilton navigates ADHD in the workplace as a C-Suite professional
About our featured guestMichelle Hamilton is Vice President of Business Development at Vessel Architecture, a commercial firm renowned for crafting spaces where people flourish. Michelle's dedication to connecting people, places and ideas through creative, collaborative solutions has been a driving force throughout her 29-year career. As a leader in business development, she expertly manages strategic deployment and national relationships for senior living, multifamily, church and corporate sectors. Her skill set includes strategic planning, marketing, contract negotiations and account growth, all in pursuit of her mission to create architecture that deeply enhances the bond between spaces and its users.
Beyond her professional accomplishments, Michelle is an active contributor to her community. She serves as a local board director for CREW St. Louis, an international commercial real estate organization. Michelle's commitment to empowering the next generation of professionals is also evident in her mentorship of young women embarking on careers in commercial real estate through service as the board liaison to the Young Professionals Committee and Lindenwood University Women's Leadership Board.
In her downtime, Michelle channels her creative spirit as a glass sculptor. Her works are featured in books, museums, and private and public collections nationwide. See them on her website, Zaximo Studios. An energetic mother and wife, Michelle balances her artistic pursuits with her passion for health, including pilates, vegetable gardening, an appreciation of bourbon, and the practice of transcendental meditation. Reach out to her at [email protected].
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out Vessel Architecture
Follow Vessel Architecture on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram
Connect with Michelle Hamilton on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
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Many businesses have spent the past year navigating the increasing use of artificial intelligence in the workplace. Law firms are especially cautious due to lingering questions about the legal implications of using AI, particularly related to confidentiality and privacy concerns. Meanwhile, many professionals are exploring how AI might enhance their expertise and simplify workloads.
Jessica Aries is one of them.
Jessica is a seasoned legal marketer and founder of By Aries, a digital marketing agency specializing in the legal sector. She frequently talks about how law firms can use AI tools to enhance their operations, sharing her insight on social media and at various conferences. In this episode of “Spill the Ink,” Michelle Calcote King invites Jessica to reflect on the evolution of AI tools for legal marketers. They discuss the risks and best practices professionals should keep in mind when using them. They also talk about their favorite AI tools and analyze how AI is changing before our eyes.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learnWho is Jessica Aries and what is By Aries
The evolution of AI tools, particularly for law firms
How your firm can strategically leverage AI to improve workflows
The risks and drawbacks of using AI as a legal professional
Best practices for AI writing prompts
Why smart legal marketers make the AI to ask them questions
The implications surrounding watermarked AI content
A shortlist of Michelle and Jessica’s favorite AI tools
About our featured guestJessica Aries, J.D., LL.M., is a lawyer turned digital marketer who helps lawyers simplify their digital marketing to build consistent visibility and profitable practice. A former in-house legal marketer at some of the largest and fastest-growing firms in the world, Jessica understands the pressures lawyers face and strives to help them perfect their digital presence to build relationships, develop new opportunities and transform their approach to marketing in an easy and approachable way.
Resources mentioned in this episodeCheck out By Aries
Follow By Aries on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram and YouTube
Connect with Jessica Aries on LinkedIn
Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episodeThis episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at [email protected] today.
Transcript[00:00:00] Jessica Aries: AI is gonna amplify the type of marketer you are, going to amplify the type of lawyer you are. So if you're one who's going to cut corners, it's going to really exacerbate that. But if you're someone who's really going to push the tool and challenge the tool, it's going to amplify that, too, and make you a better marketer.
[00:00:21]: Welcome to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show.
[00:00:38] Michelle Calcote King: Hey everyone. I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host and I'm also the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink.com.
As everyone knows, artificial intelligence has been the topic of conversation in 2023. We're all sort of navigating what it means for our jobs and how best to leverage these tools. For law firms, it can be somewhat of a tricky conversation. But some people in the field have taken a lead on this and have embraced AI and are doing really interesting things with that.
Jessica Aries is one of those people. I was really fortunate to attend a session of hers at the Legal Marketing Association Midwest Regional Conference, and she was full of useful tips. Welcome to the show, Jessica.
[00:01:28] Jessica Aries: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:31] Michelle Calcote King: I know you're a former attorney and you started your agency after a decade of working in-house at law firms. So let's start with you telling me a little bit about who you are and your firm.
[00:01:41] Jessica Aries: By Aries launched really in the pandemic when, like many, I was furloughed and had to figure it out in a hot second. I actually put up a LinkedIn post that went semi-viral within our industry where I basically just put up like a headshot and said like, "Hey, I'm a COVID-19 job seeker." And it resulted in this influx of leads to my now agency. At the time it was me working in digital marketing because there was a real gap in the market at the time. As you remember, many firms hadn't quite fully embraced digital, maybe not social media the way that they had, and social media really built my business. So a lot of what we do is social media strategy and social media marketing. We focus predominantly on LinkedIn, but we have migrated into video marketing lately and doing a lot more around new platforms, emerging platforms like TikTok and Reels and Facebook Reels. So really exploring those areas. And with that has come this need for really learning what AI can do to kind of advance and make simpler the the workflows that we had in our agency.
That's really how I got into AI. I was just looking to make things faster for us and find a way to really elevate what we were already doing and I thought, why not test it out? That's another algorithm. We're playing with the algorithms all the time. Why not test another robot? So that's how it came about. And so my agency predominantly does that. We work with lawyers and law firms to enhance and perfect their digital brands online using social media strategies and video marketing strategies.
[00:03:10] Michelle Calcote King: I love that. I follow some of your videos. We do the same thing. We like to walk the talk and really do what we do for our clients for ourselves and when people ask me how we've grown, I say, "Well we do the same kind of marketing that we do for our clients," and that's really built our reputation and helped us grow, but I think you do a really good job of that. I followed you on LinkedIn for a while and your videos are especially very good. I know the law is a more conservative industry, but the way people communicate is very much so driven by a lot of these kind of trends from TikTok and things like that. My employees forced me to get on TikTok and to learn the styles more and understand, you know, cause videos are really kind of taking over social media. So yeah, love that.
So let's talk about AI tools. I know AI has been around for a while, right. And I think that was a point you made in your presentation. This stuff isn't new. It's actually, you know, being more and more incorporated, but it sort of feels like it came out of nowhere this year. How are you seeing the industry take on AI? What have been the reactions you're seeing?
[00:04:11] Jessica Aries: Well, I think like anything new, there's always a lot of fear, a lot of trepidation. Like, "Am I going to get myself into trouble with my bar license?" I mean, I actually have people who ask me, "Do you write policies for firms?" And I'm like, "Actually, I try to avoid that," just because I worry about the risk of it looking in some way, shape or form in the future like I'm giving some sort of legal advice. So I'm very cognizant of the fact that in our industry in particular we have to be careful on what we're adopting and what we're taking on and how we're using client data, how we're using firm data. For me in particular, I really wanted to explore just how we internally in my agency could better leverage AI because I saw a huge opportunity. But beyond that, I saw the kind of evolution. I had played around with some of the tools that were predecessors to ChatGPT before. I'm blanking on the one right now that I use the most, but I had played with a lot of them before, had seen how some of them were--
[00:05:04] Michelle Calcote King: Like Jasper?
[00:05:05] Jessica Aries: Yes, Jasper I had played with! I saw kind of how it worked, where it had issues. And so when ChatGPT launched, which I think is really what most people think of GenAI now. Their first immediate response is ChatGPT and that's because when it became available to us, it was like taking that functionality of Jasper and giving it to us all for free. So for us, a lot of it was me trying to understand and kind of break it. I'm one of those people I love to play with it until I break it. So it was kind of challenging. What could I put into it? What would it give me back? What kind of prompts resulted in the best responses? And then how far could I take it? So I think that's where firms in particular haven't yet tested it as much and someone like me who loves to break it first is probably kind of refreshing to them to say, "Hey, I've already broken it. Here's the boundaries. Here's the pitfalls. Here's the things you don't want to step in and here's the ways to protect yourself from that."
That's really how I got into it and how I've approached it. And the way I'm seeing people in the industry now look at it is they are really wanting to understand what it can do for them, how it can impact their existing workflows, especially now that some of the kinks are getting worked out. As well as they better understand the terms of service, they better understand what kind of information they should and shouldn't be putting into it. As well as there's new tools and new advancements and even the different tiers of offerings that now allow for you to keep some of that information that would be confidential, truly confidential.
There's this evolution I think right now of firms now being more interested in it and wanting to understand how they can leverage it, knowing that they don't have to jeopardize their bar license to use it.
[00:06:42] Michelle Calcote King: I do want to get into the risks, but let's start with the opportunities.
What are the best opportunities for law firms and their marketing professionals with AI? What can AI do for them?
[00:06:53] Jessica Aries: Well, streamline a lot of the work we used to do in our marketing departments. I came from in-house in a marketing department where I always felt like there was more work than there was time to do all of the work. You could literally work 12-hour days and still never be done because there was another lawyer who needed your help with something. And so where I see the biggest opportunity is taking those things that are huge time sucks from our day and simplifying them. Something as simple as I have a client alert that's going out via email, I can simplify the process of creating the social media post that's going to go, the subject line, the lead in to the actual article of the client alert that I might post on our blog or somewhere else. All of that can be simplified and leveraged with ChatGPT to just make things easier and speed up that process.
But then beyond that, I think it's a great auditing tool, especially when you're asked to create a new campaign or a new idea for, let's say an office launch or the opportunity of a new industry group that's joining your firm. You can use it as a great brainstorming tool and just something to kind of verify that you didn't miss anything. It's a great way for you as a great marketer to just enhance what you're already doing. So I think there's just a lot of opportunities there, but I do like to say, too, the one negative drawback of ChatGPT or using something like that is you really have to already have those marketing skills before you start using it, because I think it amplifies the good or the bad. So if you're a great marketer, it's going to amplify that you're a great marketer. If you're not a strong marketer, it's going to amplify the fact that you don't really know your stuff. And so you've really got to spend that time honing those skills to be a great marketer first before you can really use the tool to its full advantage. That's how I'm seeing firms really leverage it and I'm seeing the great marketers get even better using it.
[00:08:46] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, it's interesting when it first came on the scene, everyone had this like immediate fear that it would replace them, you know? And I sort of likened it to — cause I'm old enough to remember, you know, when social media came on the scene and Google and I was working back before there was an Internet — and it really just is an evolution in our work and learning how to use the tools available to us to be better at what we're already doing. I mean, surely it will replace some of those very mundane tasks that, honestly, most of us graduate out of and we're going to skip that level now. So absolutely.
Let's look at best practices when using AI. In your presentation, you kind of went through a case study and you actually had AI ask you questions. I loved that thought. But let's talk in general, best practices for using AI in your day-to-day work.
[00:09:38] Jessica Aries: My first best practice is to give AI a job. So before you sit down and just start asking it questions, I think it's important to tell the robot who it's supposed to be because sometimes we sit down and we'll just write a question to it and so it's going to pull from all over, you know, it's database of language when it responds and sometimes that's when you get the worst responses. So if you can help the robot understand what role it's supposed to be playing in this conversation, that helps you a lot. So I love to start with saying like, "Hey, you're a marketing expert at a law firm." So you're not just a marketing expert in e-comm. You're now a marketing expert at a law firm. And I think helping it set the stage of understanding what role it's supposed to play.
And then I, as you mentioned, like to have it ask me questions about me or my business or my client or whoever I'm trying to solve the problem for. And that's where I think you really get into understanding do you know enough information as a marketer to really utilize this tool? Because it's going to ask questions like, "Who is your target audience? What geography are you trying to target? What are their pain points? What are the issues? What are the objections they have when they're talking to you in a consultation?" And I think as marketers, we don't always have access to all of that information unless we go back to the lawyers and say, "Hey, so what were the objections that someone gave you the last time you pitched them in a meeting? What were their reasons why they didn't hire you?" And that makes you actually be a better marketer to say, "Why haven't I ever asked these questions before and thought about that when creating content or when creating messaging for our firm?”
[00:11:12] Michelle Calcote King: I'm a big fan of being a good questioner. I did a lot of speaking for a while on the art of knowledge extraction because I do think that is a critical role as a marketer because we can't know what we don't know. Being good at drawing out the right information is a skill. A lot of people on my team are former journalists. And I find that a really important skill. So being able to utilize AI to help with that, to help that process is a really cool functionality.
Well, let's talk about risks. We talked about best practices. What are those things to avoid and risks to be aware of?
[00:11:44] Jessica Aries: Anytime you're putting anything confidential into something that has a terms of service that says it's discoverable: Red flag. Like anyone who's worked in legal marketing long enough, that's a red flag, right? Understanding the terms of service of anything that you're using. Making sure you understand who owns the IP rights of the output, that's an important part, too. I did IT and privacy law. As someone who worked in that area, privacy, is a huge concern too, right? Are you putting information in there that's private information that shouldn't be shared? Names of clients? Beyond just confidential, but also things that your clients wouldn't want you to have put into something that's discoverable, for whatever reason. So there's a lot of risks in that sense and so I think having a good understanding of what should be put into the tool, what's allowable, what's not allowable, but then beyond that, also just using your brain, right? If you wouldn't broadcast it across social media, then you probably shouldn't be broadcasting it within ChatGPT, especially if you're using the free version. If you don't have the enterprise version, or you're not using one of the other tools that's a closed system.
I know a lot of firms right now are building their own systems for that exact reason, or using tools like I heard of one called Claude that's more closed. Those are ones that, from my understanding, have that ability to kind of protect that data. So if you're wanting to use some of these tools and you're not ready to pay for the enterprise level of ChatGPT to have that production, maybe look at some of those like Claude or even building your own or partnering with someone who already has built one that will close it down for you.
[00:13:15] Michelle Calcote King: And can you talk a little bit about the fact that they are basically watermarking any content created by ChatGPT? What does that mean?
[00:13:23] Jessica Aries: I actually saw that that first came to light in an article I was reading-- so we write a monthly newsletter that talks about the latest things that are happening in social and digital media and marketing. And I saw a New York Times article that was talking about how these systems, they are created by a library of content that's uploaded into them and then digested, basically, and spit out. Well, that content has to be written by humans. And so the system doesn't want to have, you know, the people who created ChatGPT OpenAI, they do not want their system to be filled with AI-generated content. So what they're doing is they're watermarking the outputs that they're putting. They're putting the words in a certain order to be able to scan and be able to see, "Okay, this is AI-generated content," so they don't input back into the system content that was GenAI created. They have to preserve the integrity of their systems.
And so, you have to be really careful of representing that this content is something I wrote and is my intellectual property and yada yada yada without realizing that this is happening on the back end. They are watermarking this data, they are using it, certain word structures, so that it signifies to the system that that is not something that's human written, and thus doesn't corrupt their system; and could be used later in the future, it wouldn't surprise me if there's tools to be able to scan and tell us, then everyone, all of us, and out you, if you're claiming something's written by you, and is really AI-generated.
[00:14:52] Michelle Calcote King: Fascinating. Which has implications then for copyright, I would assume.
[00:14:56] Jessica Aries: Oh, yeah. Copyright. Also, if you're claiming you're not using GenAI with your client's work, and you are, big, huge issue there. Your privacy policies, too. And, "Hello, privacy lawyer over here," is always very conscious of what you're saying your policy is and then how you're actually executing your workload. So you have to be really careful with all of those areas.
[00:15:20] Michelle Calcote King: So let's talk tools. What are some of your favorite tools that you recommend? So let's say you're a marketer at a law firm and you really haven't gotten into AI yet and you want to improve your workflow. What would be some of the tools you'd recommend they check out?
[00:15:35] Jessica Aries: Well, so I always recommend that if you're a marketer working in-house, you ask if you're, first of all, allowed to use any firm data when creating marketing materials. If there's a policy, follow that.
Beyond that, if your firm's very strict and is like, "You can't use ChatGPT at all," then that's where I'd say, go to your personal profiles and things like LinkedIn and experiment with tools like ChatGPT. You know, test it out when writing your own LinkedIn bio and see what it gives you. Test it out with writing some LinkedIn posts to see what the outputs look like. Things like that.
If your firm allows you to use firm data, then there's a lot of different tools I would recommend playing with. The first one, obviously ChatGPT, which is the most popular, but I do recommend upgrading to ChatGPT-4. The outputs are so much better and it has a much larger memory. What that means is it can iterate on itself. You can have it ask you those questions, you can respond to those questions. It will recall what you had said in response to those so that you can get a better response in the iterations of your inputs and outputs. Which if you haven't used ChatGPT, go play with it so you can understand what I mean by that. It basically responds like you're chatting with someone. And so if you want a more sophisticated output, ChatGPT-4 has a better memory to be able to actually give you better outputs.
Beyond that, the other tools that I'm really loving, I love AI for data. So I'm a big user of wanting to analyze data and slice and dice it in different ways and I used to be one of those people who sat for long periods of time in pivot tables, slicing and dicing data to better understand what strategies are working for my clients, what aren't. And even the reporting that I'd get from some really advanced tools was never enough for me, so that's where something like ChatGPT with its plugin with I think it's code interpreter* will allow you to upload data and slice and dice it in different ways. So ChatGPT for sure.
Beyond that, we do a ton of video content. So I'm using a lot of video tools like Video.ai is my favorite by far. If you have, you know, a lawyer who makes a lot of webinars and you want to slice and dice them into smaller snippets that can be used on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on wherever, whatever platform you want to put them on, Video.ai is my, my favorite tool. It'll add captions, it'll highlight the places that are, you know, best for potential engagement for you. So that's a tool I really love.
And we use Descript a lot as well because we do so much video editing.
[00:18:08] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah we use that for our podcast and video as well. Yep.
[00:18:11] Jessica Aries: It's just so easy and it basically takes your video content and makes it like a Word document. And so you can edit your video content like a Word document whereas before having to open something like Adobe Premiere-- I mean, I have a multimedia design team that would do that, but it's still, like, just the opening of the application itself is a heavy lift on your computer. So to be able to use something like Descript is really the way to go if you're trying to edit and can even help do voiceovers and things like that. Those are some of my favorite tools and tools that I probably use every single-- actually I use them every single day in some way, shape or form, even though I'm not supposed to be editing my own videos, I'm always like, "Oh! I just want to adjust this."
[00:18:51] Michelle Calcote King: Right. You mentioned one that I played +around with, which I loved. I think it's called Crystal AI. I love personality tests and assessment. I just find them fascinating. And I stumbled upon Crystal a couple of years ago and just ran it on friends and a few of my employees and the accuracy was scary. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:19:11] Jessica Aries: Yeah, so that's part of the like LinkedIn tools, the business development side. In that presentation, I tried to think for the marketing and the BD side, cause I also used to work in business development. I actually managed BD tech for a global firm.
And I just remember how I always craved more information. And so, some of the AI tools I had showcased, one was Crystal AI, which basically scans public LinkedIn profiles and gives you a high-level DiSC assessment on that person so you know how to approach communicating with them. If you haven't played with DiSC, anyone here who's like, "What's a DiSC assessment?" It's basically a personality assessment that will tell you how to have better conversations, what kind of information is going to resonate with people when you're talking to them. I'm a very visual person, so it always comes back with all these cues that when you're talking to me, visuals work better. But for others, it might be data, or it might be, you know, paragraphs, or it might be case studies. So tools like Crystal give you insights into the people who you're potentially pitching, which is very powerful.
Another tool that I love and use almost every day that I can't believe I didn't mention already is Taplio, which essentially works with LinkedIn and it's a tool that it has a lot of capabilities, but my favorite lately that it's launched is the ability to create content for you. GenAI-generated LinkedIn posts for you based on your past content. So it scans your past content and suggests different LinkedIn posts to share, and I use that one almost every day for idea generation. Now I do have to edit them. They're not perfect, but it's a great starting point and it saves me a ton of time. And they actually now just released a carousel generator, which is amazing. So if you've written a blog post or something and you don't have a graphic design team or you don't have-- graphic design doesn't have the time to create a carousel post for you, you can take the URL from your blog post, your article, whatever it is, and paste it into Taplio and it will generate a carousel post for you in your brand colors instantly, and then upload it to LinkedIn for you. It's crazy.
[00:21:13] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that's wild. I remember Taplio from your presentation, especially the carousel functionality. That's fantastic.
Well, this has been fantastic. Is there any final thought around AI that you'd like to leave our listeners with?
[00:21:29] Jessica Aries: I think my biggest reminder and the thing that I actually started the presentation off with that you attended, but the thing that I'm becoming most known for is saying that AI is like makeup and the sense that it should enhance what you have. It shouldn't cover it up. So remember that AI is going to amplify the type of marketer you are, going to amplify the type of lawyer you are. So if you're one who's going to cut corners, it's going to really exacerbate that. But if you're someone who's really going to push the tool and challenge the tool, it's going to amplify that, too, and make you a better marketer. So use it to enhance what you're doing. Use it to enhance what you're doing in your legal work. And, you know, don't fall afoul of any of those confidentiality rules for your firm or those privacy rules for your clients.
[00:22:15] Michelle Calcote King: So we've been talking to Jessica Aries of By Aries. So if people wanted to get in touch with you and learn more, where's the best place for them to go?
[00:22:22] Jessica Aries: Well, I'm always on LinkedIn, I feel like every day. So please reach out via LinkedIn or my website's a great place. You can find my TikTok there, my reels, all my video content and YouTube is another great place. I make long form videos there, too, on different topics. So if you're someone who really likes to get gritty and digest a topic in full, check out our YouTube channel. That's @ByAries marketing.
[00:22:43] Michelle Calcote King: Thank you so much.
[00:22:45] Jessica Aries: Thank you.
[00:22:45]: Thanks for listening to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click "Subscribe" to get future episodes.
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