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Welcome to 'The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday', the official Navy SEAL podcast. I'm your host, Scott Williams and with me today is Andrew Dow, who is a retired SEAL and runs the SEAL Officer Selection and Assessment Program at Naval Special Warfare. And also Mr. Rod Olsen, who is well, let me tell you a little bit about Mr. Rod Olson because he has quite a background. He is the CEO of Coaches of Excellence Institute and Coach O Consulting Group. Known as a "coaches coach", Mr. Rod Olson is an author of three books and a specialist on 21st century coaching and leadership following a 17-year football coaching career that included coaching positions at Oklahoma State University, and three-time national champion Appalachian State University. Rod has spent the last decade training and coaching leaders from Fortune 100 companies to the Dallas Stars of the National Hockey League, and the Texas Rangers of Major League Baseball. Currently, Rod mentors and coaches major commanders in the NSW community, which is part of what we'll talk about today, and also trains both SEAL and SWCC instructors quarterly at Naval Special Warfare. You can learn more about Rod at www.coachoconsultinggroup.org. Welcome. Mr. Olsen.
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Time to await fate. The trial of SOAS is over and now the SEAL candidates are chosen. Learn what goes into the process of selecting the winners.
Scott (Host)
Welcome to another edition of ‘The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday’. I'm your host, Scott Williams, and today we're going to be talking SOAS. We have our SOAS representative, retired SEAL Lieutenant, Andrew Dow. And Andrew we've covered this now, three times. And we've talked about how to get ready for SOAS, what to expect, how to train for SOAS, all that good stuff, and then actually seeing a SOAS live in the flesh and watching as the evolutions go down. Today, we're going to talk about the aftermath. What happens when candidates have actually attended SOAS, gone through the two weeks, and gone home, and now they're waiting? So, tell me first, what happens after those evolutions are done, from the staff perspective.
Andrew (Guest)
Okay. All right. So, we did talk about, you know, the whole pre-op, pre-application, we talked about assessment week, interview week, but what happens afterward is there's a SEAL panel, a SEAL Selection panel, and every applicant that attends SOAS finishes SOAS with a SOAS scorecard. Basically, it explains, and it tracks everything they've done during the SOAS both interview weekend and assessment week. So, it's their scorecard that shows how well they did on certain evolutions, instructor inputs, and peer inputs, all gets compiled, and the scorecard gets forwarded to the SEAL Selection panel. The panel happens at the end of the third block in September. There's a week-long process where several O-5s and O-6s and now this year alone, the two-star Admiral of WARCOM will be the panel president. They come together and they sit down and go through each application, their pre-application, they go through each scorecard, and they determine which applicant will receive orders to BUD/S and will receive a bill to become an 1130. Excuse me, 1180.
Scott (Host)
You mentioned that the flag is sitting in this time. I think it's the first time that's happened.
Andrew (Guest)
That's correct. Yeah. In the past, it used to be the commodore of Naval Special Warfare Center. But this year, we're moving with having the two-star sit as the panel president.
Scott (Host)
Yeah, I imagined as one of those potential selectees that I'd be at home sitting thinking, who is evaluating me right now?
Andrew (Guest)
Well as in SOAS the evaluators and the assessors are NSW instructors and regular operators that will write down everything about you everything you do, but on the actual panel, you're having senior leadership, O-5 Commanders of SEAL teams, Commanders of Basic Training Command, the Commander of Advanced Training Command, you'll have the Commodore who's an O-6, which is a Captain in the Navy, sitting at the panel who used to be the panel president but now the Naval Special Warfare Command Admiral, two star, will be leading that panel.
Scott (Host)
So, what are the big things they're looking for in that panel?
Andrew (Guest)
Right. So, it hasn't changed much in the past, except that now that Naval Special Warfare is focused more on maritime and going towards that route of operations overseas. They're looking for, either way, they're looking for the whole-person approach. They want to see candidates that have great character, great teamwork, professionalism, and leadership, and are able to work in different situations that they can adapt to. So, what's tested at SOAS and that's what's presented at the board. They're looking at their cognitive abilities, their behavioral aptitudes, they're looking at their physical performance, which is very important, their comfortability in the water, as well as they'll be tested on their leadership abilities. They'll be put in tough situations. So, the results of those situations will be presented to the board as well. So, the big three are character, cognitive ability, and physicality.
Scott (Host)
And, you know, we've heard of the gray man concept where, you know, you kind of sneak through BUD/S with not being the guy who's at the bottom and not the guy who's drawing attention as a star performer, but kind of blending in with the pack. How does the panel look at the gray man?
Andrew (Guest)
Every community has a gray man, right? But in the officer community, you can't be a gray man. They're selecting the ones that stand out, they're not selecting the ones that do poorly and it's becoming more and more the norm to not select gray men. So, if you're the type of person who's very quiet and timid, and hey, I just, I'm just doing this to get by, you shouldn't even come and apply because you're not going to get selected the bottom line, they want to see the outgoing people, the people who aren't afraid to take risks, you know, coordinated risks and calculated risks. Excuse me. The gray man, as you're talking about Scott, as officers, that really doesn't sit well with the panel they're not going to move forward with someone who is I don't want to say introverted, because obviously, you have to be outspoken you need to be able to present yourself and to your, your, your subordinates. But as a gray man, they're going to pass you by, you're probably not going to get selected, to be honest.
Scott (Host)
So maximum individual output, but also maximum teamwork?
Andrew (Guest)
I'd say teamwork and vocalization. So, they're not looking for the, you know, the cheerleader who's looking at me, look, I'm the one talking all the time, just saying whatever they want to hear. They're looking for the ones who are actually saying the things that need to be said, the ones that are actually stepping out of that comfort zone of should I say something or should I just sit back. They're looking for the ones that are like, okay, I have a plan, explaining it to their men and women that this is what we need to do. And all of this is getting documented on their SOAS scorecard. So, the panel will see this, who's a gray man, who's a good-spoken leader, who's the ones that are just there to get a, you know, a nice flare on their chip saying, hey, I made it through SOAS.
Scott (Host)
How do the quotas work? I mean, how many people are going to make that panel and roughly how many get selected.
Andrew (Guest)
So, every year, the Admiral looks at the entire force and sees how many officers will be needed to fill in those ranks that are now missing. Each year, we're looking at sending to BUD/S roughly 80 to 95 Officer candidates to go to BUD/S. From that, their hope – their intent – is to get at least 60 to 70 Officer candidates to get through the pipeline, and to later on check into the teams. The one other thing though is those numbers have been relatively the same each year. As we spoke in an earlier webinar, you know, OCS specifically for being selected for BUD/S from the selection panel, OCS, we're looking at probably 90 to 100 applications and from that, we have about 60 attend SOAS and of that 60, only about 15 are 15 to 20, I'd say because there are some alternates, that get selected to go to BUD/S. And each accession source has a different one. But strictly OCS, that's the number for there. Naval academy has their own process that they select how many get through. ROTC same thing. I can go into those numbers too, give a broad range of that so that, you know the listeners can have an idea of okay, what are what are my chances what is the percentage of me, you know, being picked up if you want.
Scott (Host)
Shoot.
Andrew (Guest)
Okay, so we have OCS. We have ROTC. ROTC, we see about 70 to 80 applications a year, of that 70 to 80, the board usually gets about 50 to look at. And of that 50 they pick about 15 to 20 to go to BUD/S. Naval Academy like I said, does their whole internal down selection to see who goes to so as themselves, but they start with as high as 250 to 300 applications, candidates and from there, they do their own little screeners, or they have two screeners a year and have that they probably send about 100. They have about 150 that come out of the screeners. From that 150, they only send about 60. So, they have a pretty intense down-selection process themselves. Of that 60 who attend SOAS, Naval Academy sends maybe 25 to 35 candidates to BUD/S. So that selection process is very...
Scott (Host)
rigorous.
Andrew (Guest)
Thank you. Yes, rigorous. We have OCS, ROTC, and Naval Academy. Then there's the other accession sources, which we don't see as many applications for, and we don't see as many selected from that inner service transfer, when you have like your Marine Corps, your Army officers, your Air Force officers that apply for SOAS and attend. We see probably about from each one of those probably about five to ten a year and the selection panel maybe picks one or two maybe. As long as they have, you know everything we're looking for and that their service is willing to let them go to cross over to the Navy. We also see Merchant Marine Academy.
Scott (Host)
I remember we've even in the past seen a couple of Coast Guard Officer candidates come through quite some time ago.
Andrew (Guest)
Since I've been working, in the seat, I've seen probably three Coast Guard and strictly enlisted. Coast Guard enlisted apply that would like to go Officer. Enlisted to Officer. So, OCS Enlisted category. Before I touch on the Coast Guard specifically, the OCS enlisted side basically, that's anyone who is active duty in service from your seamen, seamen recruit your E-3 to I've seen an E-6. Actually, an E-7 this year, we have an E-7, which is the Chief applying. That is probably the hardest road any candidate accession source has because they're competing against Trident wearers. They're competing against SEALs who are enlisted that want to become officers. So, they fall in the same pool as those at the selection panel. So, any enlisted sailor that applies for SOAS that goes to SOAS that goes to the selection panel is actually competing against Trident wearers. So, it's a very, very challenging route, we get about 10 to 15 of those applications a year, and probably about one to two is selected each year to go to BUD/S. It's a risk that the panel takes because they obviously are presenting or showing something that the community is interested in. But back to the Coast Guard, they fall in the same category, but they would be interservice transfers. But once again, they would actually have to take one of the spots of the OCS enlisted. So, I've seen two or three. I'm not sure what it is, maybe it's the Coast Guard in general. They're not sending or allowing to send that many applicants. Because I believe several years ago, we actually had an officer get through, and as I Trident. To sum it up, I haven't seen many because I think the Coast Guard is keeping a close hold on who's being allowed to leave their service.
Scott (Host)
Well, it's always about the needs of the service first. So, we do have male and female candidates go to SOAS and then those results are sent to the panel. How does the panel evaluate candidates in a gender-neutral manner?
Andrew (Guest)
As candidates apply, both male and female, they go through a down-selection panel with the SEAL OCM and then they themselves the applicant and the application moves forward through SOAS. At the end of SOAS, all applicants and applications are put in front of the SEAL selection panel, which is run by the two-star Admiral. To keep everything straight and professional, the gender identifiers, remove everything. So, they keep gender blind. So, all the panel is seeing is their scores, comments that are made about the candidate, they specifically say rather than he or she they'll say the candidate. There's no picture, there's no identifier. So, it's just strictly, 'how well did this candidate perform at SOAS' and any input that assessors may have if they want to look further, they'll look at their application, their actual application, but all that is scrubbed and keep the gender bias.
Scott (Host)
So, they're looking at quantitative data and qualitative data that is scrubbed of gender identifiers.
Andrew (Guest)
Exactly. Yep.
Scott (Host)
So, that sounds good. So, they go through a process of selecting candidates, and now they have the list that they've chosen to attend, but how do they get the word out? How soon do they get the word out? And what form does that take? Is it an email or a phone call? Who is it to?
Andrew (Guest)
Okay, so, in September when the seal selection panel convenes, they finish deciding from which session source will be selected to go to BUD/S. They honestly create a master kind of notification sheet, and this sheet has every candidate that applied if was selected. This gets sent out to the SEAL Officer community manager who then will make the formal notifications of who was selected. The SEAL OCM will notify the ROTC higher headquarters with the list, who will then trickle it down to all the units to let their candidates know if he or she made it or was selected or not. The Naval Academy same thing, the Naval Academy and I think ROTC have a specific it's called service selection night where they're notified if they what selection service selection there'll be going to. So, I believe that happens in November or December for Naval Academy and ROTC. Everyone else is usually notified, usually the middle of October end of it October or sometimes early November, if they've been selected or not. So, they'll be notified usually through email through the SEAL OCM, the SEAL Officer Community Manager if they've been selected or not. Sometimes for OCS, specifically, the Seal Community Manager will notify their recruiters, CRNC. And they will once again trickle it down to each individual recruiting station, who will then notify their applicant if they've been selected or not. So, usually about a month after selection, they're notified.
Scott (Host)
That sounds good. So, if I'm that candidate, and I get the bad news that I didn't make it, what can I do to start getting ready for the next cycle? I still want to take another crack at this, I know where I can improve. But I want some more insights.
Andrew (Guest)
What's really neat about this process is every candidate gets two attempts at SOAS. You can apply as many times as you want, but you get two boots on the ground you're at SOAS attempts. At the end of SOAS, if you find out you weren't selected and this was your first attempt, you can reapply and try again, you know the following year. The SOAS, the SEAL Officer Assessment Selection Officer-In-Charge, in the past has done a debrief for each candidate before the panel itself so you'll know leaving SOAS before the selection panel happens, what your strengths and weaknesses were. And you'll also get a copy of the scorecard that the selection panels looking at will see all your greens and your reds, your goods and your bads. So, you'll be walking away with 'okay if I'm not selected, this is what I need to work on'. So you have some homework to do. So, you can go back and train harder or work on the things that the SOAS staff saw that you needed to work on. Another resource you have is one side component of my job is also I host six webinars a year, it was based around the NROTC schedule. So we did three in the fall semester and three in the spring semester. And that maintains but instead of just ROTC I've opened it up to OCS and any other candidate that is interested in going to SEAL pipeline as an officer to attend. It's as easy as just shooting me an email and I'll add you to a distro list, I have an email distribution list that I send to all interested candidates. And this gives them the schedule of one I'll be running these webinars, the webinars, I think it's a great resource. It's very informal, it's just me up there, I'll have a topic to talk about. It's the main purpose of these webinars – so candidates can meet other candidates that are interested in doing what they want to do. And it gives them another resource that could potentially give them a swim buddy to train with, if they find out they're in a town next to each other, or they're from the same town. But it also gives them, like, that social network that the Naval Academy has, because the Naval Academy, I mean, all the candidates are sleeping in the same dormitory. So they're constantly getting feedback from each other. And they have that access of having SEALs on the Naval Academy campus grounds. So I'm trying to give that to them. And someone they can reach out to ask all those questions that they may not feel comfortable asking active-duty SEALs. So, they can ask me anything regarding the SEAL application or, you know, what are some strengths and weaknesses. So the bottom line is it's just kind of a gathering point for candidates who are wanting to become SEAL officers to get to know each other because the webinar lasts probably an hour for each session, but I leave it open after I leave, I leave it open for the candidates to just, you know, have small talk and discuss amongst themselves 'hey, what do you write on your application or different tips or tricks that you've learned throughout the process'. Even for those individuals who are applying a second time, they may be able to give feedback to these other interested candidates about their application what was strong and what was weak even before going to SOAS, so they know even before submitting an application so they know okay I should watch out for this and learn from each other from trial and error.
Scott (Host)
What's a typical SOAS topic? Like what did you talk about the last time.
Andrew (Guest)
So, I break it down. One of my intents, is I try to reach out to some the SEALs I know to come on and give their experience whether they've been through SOAS, whether they you know their experience as a junior officer and the team's their experience in BUD/S, experience in SQT, leadership experiences. I try to touch on everything with these speakers to come and talk about and it's an open forum. So, you know, they'll give their 10-15 minutes speech on leadership or mental toughness. And then the guest speaker will open it up to questions and that's the opportunity for candidates to ask any question they want to an active-duty SEAL officer. I also tried to bring in SEAL enlisted to get the enlisted point of view to kind of talk on what they look for in their junior officers and officers being groomed in the community. What these enlisted operators want to see in their officers, to get a little poll on each type of SEAL officer that's coming into the community. So, I tried to hit senior enlisted as guest speakers, I tried to get junior officers, mid-grade officers. I try to get just people who've been in the pipeline enough to speak on SOAS but also the ones who are past that to speak on their time in the teams as junior officers and through the ranks. I mean, I'll also hit on I'll have a specific webinar on the SOAS application process. I'll have one on mental toughness, different tricks that can help compose yourself while you're going through the entire process. We'll discuss the ethos in the SEAL creed. Just so because a lot of these candidates might not know about the whole community. So, I tried to give them an NSW 101.
Scott (Host)
That's some great until and I thank you for joining us. This has been a very informative four-part series about SOAS. Hopefully, we've covered all the bases that candidates need to hear when they're considering a career as an NSW SEAL Officer. We're going to get together again, I'm sure in the future, and talk more about Officer issues but for now, that's going to wrap it up for today. I'm Scott Williams. Thanks for joining us, Andrew Dow, for another edition of 'The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday'.
Andrew (Guest)
Thanks again. -
You can’t fake it to make it. We tell you how to navigate the application process and what you need on your resume.
Scott Williams:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Only Easy Day Was Yesterday. I'm your host, Scott Williams, and today we have Andrew Dow with us to discuss the topic of SOAS. This is Part 2 in our series. In the first part, we talked about what SOAS is, and Andrew explained that pretty well to us. Now we're going to talk about how to prepare for SOAS, and this is the SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection process. So, Andrew, welcome. Let's get right into it. Let's talk about the application process itself. How do I apply if I want to be a SEAL officer? How do I apply for SOAS? What are some of the dates and things that have to be done and prerequisites? Just talk to us about that.
Andrew Dow:
The SOAS application is very straightforward; all of it can be found on the SEAL OCM web page, and you can get to the SEAL OCM web page through SEALSWCC.COM. There are different application processes for different accession sources, so I'll first address the OCS, Officer Candidate School, or the civilians who want to become SEAL Officers.
So, the SOAS application – before we even start anything, to be an officer in the military, an officer in the Navy, every candidate has to have their four-year degree. They have to have their bachelor's degree; whether you have your degree already or if you're just about to apply, you should start the summer prior to the application due date. Applications happen once a year. They're due to the SEAL OCM at the end of February, and every year it's the same. They are due to the SEAL OCM end of February. So, if you're an OCS applicant, you should start this application in the summer. So, in July or August, you go to an Officer Recruiter, start the OCS application, and work on the SOAS application.
If you're NROTC and haven't let your chain of command know early, you start during the summer of your rising junior year. You start the SOAS application, and no matter what, the applications are due to the SEAL OCM end of February.
Once the application for any accession source is submitted, the SEAL OCM – Officer Community Manager – conducts a ‘down-select’. This down-select determines if you'll receive an invitation to SOAS or not. This happens usually at the end of March or early April, and then from there, they'll have the list of who will be attending SOAS, and you'll be notified in early April or the middle of April if you've been invited to SOAS. After you've received your invitation, you'll attend SOAS, whether it's in June, July, or August. After you complete SOAS, there's a SEAL selection panel that happens every September, where the Naval Special Warfare senior leader will sit down with a bunch of community officers and determine who will be selected to go to BUD/S. This happens in September. Candidates will be notified if they're going to BUD/S, usually in October, and then from there it's...if you're a ROTC midshipman, that October is your senior year, so you'll finish your year, you'll graduate, you'll get commissioned then you'll go to BUD/S. For OCS, you will usually attend OCS a month after receiving the selection, so you'll probably attend OCS sometime between November and April, and then you'll go to BUD/S late spring to early summer.
So, the SOAS application is...there are different accession sources for SOAS to become SEAL officers. I'm strictly going to talk first about the Officer Candidate School, the OCS candidate – the civilians who want to become SEAL Officers. Before they can even apply and become, start the SOAS application, they have to have their four-year degree, and that goes for any aspiring officer in the military. Whether you're going to become a Naval Officer or an Army Officer, you have to have your four-year degree.
So, the first step they have to do is they go down to their Officer Recruiter at any Navy Naval Station in their hometown or whatever is local to them, and they go in and talk to our Officer Recruiter and say, “I want to be a SEAL Officer through the OCS pipeline.” The Officer Recruiter will then start their application process, but concurrently and independently, they have to do their SOAS application and their SEAL Officer assessment application. This application can be found on the SEAL OCM web page. If anyone has issues getting to that web page because they have just changed the format of it, it can be very confusing to navigate. They can reach out to me. I will provide my contact information to Scott so if anyone has questions on how to get there.
Scott Williams
Yeah, just shoot us an email at [email protected], and we'll get that question answered.
Andrew Dow
Or they could go to the SEALSWCC.COM website, and there's a link to get to the SEAL OCM web page with the SOAS application.
Scott Williams
What does OCM stand for?
Andrew Dow
Officer Community Manager. The SEAL Officer Community Manager is the one who receives all the SOAS applications.
So, an OCS candidate talks to their Officer Recruiter, and at the same time, they can utilize me, and I will help them with their SOAS application. So, the SOAS application for an OCS candidate starts with them going to their Officer Recruiter, the Officer Recruiter will handle different components of that application, but concurrently and independently, they're going to do their SOAS application. The SOAS application for an OCS candidate requires that they have a four-year degree, they have to have a PST score and a physical screening test score that can be done by their Officer Recruiter, who can proctor it. They have to have a resume. The resume is basically a brag sheet about the individual and what they have done prior to applying to SOAS, and this could be a wide range of things their leadership experience, their athletic background, their GPA, what majors they studied, do they speak any languages, this is the time that they get to brag about themselves, check your modesty at the door. You want to basically tell on this resume everything great about yourself.
Scott Williams
And is that the kind of stuff that NSW is looking for?
Andrew Dow
Yes, during the SOAS application, we want to see – because they're looking for individuals with athletic backgrounds – the ones with strong GPAs or are bilingual, or have leadership experience in the real world that they will be able to utilize in the SEAL community. So, one of the components of the SOAS application is that resume, so that's like I said, is your brag sheet.
After you have the resume, you need your letter of references, usually get two of those, and it's given to someone who knows you and who can write about talk about you, your leadership, your character, what you have done in life up to this point and for them to basically talk about it. In the past, I've told candidates, some good people to write a letter of reference for, you know, high school coaches, high school teachers, college teachers, college coaches, and some of your mentors that you know that you've looked up to in the past.
Scott Williams
So, it doesn't have to be, you know, your local senator, for instance, as it would be if you're applying to the Naval Academy and yet you're getting a senator to write a letter recommendation or some Admiral somewhere it really has more to do with how well does that person know you so that they can evaluate you as someone that is well known versus….
Andrew Dow
The whole point of letter references is not about the signature at the bottom. It's about the individual, the candidate. The person writing these LORs should know this person and be able to write good things about them, and just like you said, you're not looking for a senator; hey, if you know a senator and he knows you since you were born by all means, utilize that individual. Or if you know a four-star Admiral or a four-star general who knows you and your family by first name, yeah, you can utilize those, but if you're just in passing and you see this four-star who you had the chance to say hello and then you ask can you write a letter of reference for me, that's probably not a good idea because the selection penalty sees these all the time. And it's frowned upon because they don't know you. You want to find someone who knows you. That's the most important thing for these letters of reference.
Along with the LORs, you have the OCD, which is the Officer Candidate Data card. It's basically a snapshot of the individual. The Officer Community manager can provide this to you, and it's basically just filling in all the important highlights of your resume, your GPA, your leadership background, and your athletic background. Also included is a headshot of the candidate. So, each candidate is also going to be required to provide a headshot in business casual. Don't be taking a picture in board shorts, and T-shirt, and flip-flops. Look professional, because this is an interview.
Scott Williams
So, it's kind of like a baseball card, in a way?
Andrew Dow
Right, right.
Scott Williams
It has your personal stats...
Andrew Dow
Yes, exactly
Scott Williams
...what you look like and your major accomplishments.
Andrew Dow
Yeah, height and weight. It's going to say, the four-year degree you got, if you have a master's degree, it will say that. It will say what you did in college, what you did in the real world of the jobs you've held, and any languages you've spoken.
Scott Williams
How important is the degree or the school that you got it from? Like I get the question all the time, what should I get a degree in. Or does it matter if I go to Stanford or Timbuktu University. Tell me.
Andrew Dow
So that's a great question, and so my opinion on this and what I've said and seen over the last few years on applications is, your major doesn't matter. What I tell all candidates is to take a major that they enjoy. Take a major that you feel you'll do well in or any major that you can see yourself doing in the real world. Don't take something because it looks good on paper, and you want to have a backup plan. Because if this whole becoming a SEAL officer falls through, you want to be able to do something in the real world that you enjoy. So, if you're an art major, and you enjoy that, do it. What's important is that if you're doing it, make sure you do well in it because the selection panel and the down-select panel are not going to. If you're an economics major, and you have a 2.0, that's going to show something that you didn't really care about it. But if you're a physics major and you have a 3.0, we know physics is a challenging topic, a challenging degree. And to get a 3.0 or above is amazing. So what I tell candidates is major doesn't matter. As long as it's something you enjoy and it's a backup plan for you, do well in it. Don't just pick a major because it's hard. That's going to show that you didn't put the effort in if you have a low GPA.
School-wise, school-wise, is important, but not everyone can afford to go to Stanford. Not everyone can get a scholarship to Notre Dame. So, you do the best you can with what you have. That's what I tell applicants. Because at the end of the day, you're going to prove to yourself that SOAS that's where the rubber meets the road for applicants trying to become SEAL officers.
Scott Williams
Just as long as it's an accredited school and not Joe's fly-by-night online university kind of thing. Not that online degrees are bad, as long as the school is accredited.
Andrew Dow
Absolutely. So, you got your four-year degree. You got your letter for references. You have your resume and your brag sheet. You have your PST score. In addition, there, there is medical documentation that you'll need.
Once you do your OCS application, you'll receive medical documentation that you will be required to submit with your SOAS application. These are your DD 2807 and your DD 2808 that you receive. Your officer recruiter will know what these are, and he or she will be able to help you get that paperwork and submit it with your SOAS application.
So, the application process for OCS candidates there are two of them, you get your OCS application and your SOAS application. I'm here for you all to answer any questions about the SOAS application and help guide you through that. Now, that's OCS in a nutshell.
Andrew Dow
The other accession sources, Naval Academy and ROTC, their process is a little bit different. Naval Academy has its own machine. If you could get to the Naval Academy once you get there, they'll walk you through the process.
Let's talk about ROTC, the NROTC, Navy Reserve Officer Training Corps. Basically, you go to a regular college, and some colleges have NROTC, and that is an opportunity for you to be exposed to the military lifestyle but also go to a regular college.
Scott Williams
And it's a scholarship?
Andrew Dow
Yes and no. So not every NROTC individual gets a scholarship, usually around their second or third year. They'll get the opportunity, if they did well in school since then, to get the rest paid for.
Scott Williams
But the fundamentals of ROTC for any service is that you're committing to serving as an officer in that military, right?
Andrew Dow
Yes, yeah. So, the NROTC process is everything that's required for the SOAS application, as we said, can be found on the SEAL Officer Community web page. But for ROTC, for you to become a SEAL officer, you need to start your freshman year. You need to let your chain of command of your NROTC unit know that ‘my focus and my goals are to become a SEAL Officer.’
So, I'm going to work towards that because NROTC historically, candidates are, you know, STEM-focused, they're looking at mathematics and sciences and mechanical engineer and systems engineer, right because they're trying to build officers for the nuclear Navy or to be pilots or to be Surface Warfare officers.
Because the SEAL community is so tiny, is such a small community in the Navy, it's not a focal point at NROTC. So, it is imperative that you let your chain of command know right away what your intentions are. Once you make them aware of what it is, strive hard while you're at school to seek leadership positions in the NROTC. You can be a squad leader, you can be a training sergeant – you want to get as many leadership opportunities as you can while you're at NROTC, and it can start your freshman year. You can be a leader as a freshman or a fourth class in the NROTC ranks. And that you want to be able to write down your brag sheet on your resume, which is one of the requirements for the SOAS application.
The other thing I want to instill and drive home: when you are added to the NROTC unit, that shouldn't be the only thing you're doing. If you played sports in high school, you should be playing sports in college. Even if you're doing NROTC because that's not full-time, you should be able to make time to play a sport. I'm not saying go walk on the varsity Notre Dame football team. What I am saying is they have clubs and sports; they have intramural sports.
Stay active, stay busy, because these are more things you can add to your resume your application, and to brag about yourself and opens up different leadership positions. You could be a captain, you can be a treasurer, or you can hold a leadership position on any of these athletic teams.
Scott Williams
Is this because the board is looking at the ‘whole man’ concept?
Andrew Dow
Yes. Yes, the whole man concept is one of the major things the selection panel is looking at. We don't want to see just the person who goes to school, does good grades, and workouts in their room. We want to see the ones who are reaching out to their communities, you know. Striving on the athletic field, who are also working in their NROTC units, you want to see individuals who do it all, not just a single line straight to the ‘I'm going to college, ROTC, SEAL’. No, we want to see people reaching out and doing those extracurricular activities.
Scott Williams
Like they could even be part of a student body, a student government organization that can be involved in a fraternity and do community service, things like this?
Andrew Dow
Right. And you know that a lot of applicants that we've seen specifically from NROTC aren't just NROTC. They're playing some sort of sport. And it doesn't have to be like I said, Division One. It can be a club, but they're staying busy. They're not just focused on school and ROTC. They're doing other things. And this has helped them in the end.
Scott Williams
Roger.
Andrew Dow
Something I want to talk about for NROTC Midshipmen specifically is you let your chain of command know that you want to go SEAL Officer early on as early as possible. Make them involved in your decision. If you go to SOAS, you apply your second-class year, and you go to SOAS during your rising senior summer. If you're not selected, or if you are, if you're not selected, it's not the end of the world. There are still other ways to still become a SEAL Officer. One, you're going to have to...the easiest way is to lateral transfer, put in for a Surface Warfare position, do your time, earn your warfare insignia, and lateral transfer from there. So it's not the end of the day. So, you could still become a SEAL Officer. It's just a little bit longer of a road for those who want to become SEAL Officers and don't learn about them until their junior year or sophomore year. It's okay. I mean, most candidates know they want to do it right away. But we do get the candidates who just didn't know, maybe their unit wasn't aware of SOAS, as long as they get their application or as long as they reach out to me prior to their junior year or during their junior year before the applications are due. I can help guide them through the application process. So don't feel like if you're a junior or sophomore, it's too late. You can start this process as a junior.
Scott Williams
Okay, so we kind of covered OCS. And NROTC …
Andrew Dow
Let me just hit on NROTC really quick. So, where it really is important is when they become a second class, that's when the application should be submitted. So, they let their chain of command know they are applying, they get it all together, they route it up to their chain of command, and then their chain of command will submit it to the SEAL OCM.
Scott Williams
That's their junior year?
Andrew Dow
That's their junior year. They will attend SOAS their rising senior summer.
Scott Williams
Okay.
Andrew Dow
So that's NROTC. And OCS, we've talked about the other applicants that we see. We have our lateral transfers, who are active-duty sailors already, though, they already have their process a little different. They have to get their chain of command approval. They have to submit lateral transfer paperwork. But they don't lateral transfer until they are selected for BUD/S. But they have to get approval from their chain of command before they can apply in their application process. Everything the ROTC and everything the OCS has to provide lateral transfer has been provided, as do the inter-service transfers. Our Marine Corps, our Army, our Coast Guard, and our Air Force all have to do the same application requirements, which are on the SEAL OCM web page and submitted to the SEAL OCM.
Scott Williams
And any of those applicants who are already in the military, coming from a different community, whether they're a lateral transfer from the Supply Corps or an inter-service transfer from the Marine Corps or, you know, even service academy transfer from the Air Force – if they should not make it through the selection process, they are returning to their original source?
Andrew Dow
Right.
Scott Williams
You're going to go back and be an Army major like you were or whatever.
Andrew Dow
Yep.
Scott Williams
You don't. You're not. You're not transferred into the Navy as a general undesignated something?
Andrew Dow
Correct. So, it's almost, it's not a freebie, but you get to try it out for SOAS if you do well and you go to the selection panel, and they select you for BUD/S, then you will (apply) to the inter-service or a lateral transfer, and then you will go to BUD/S. If it doesn't work out and you're not selected, you'll go back to the community you just came from.
Scott Williams
Okay. So, we talked a little bit about some tips for having a strong application. Those are making sure that your letter of referral or letter of recommendation is coming from the right source. We talked about how, as a student in college, you want to be involved in many different things. And I think that probably applies to all the applicants they have since they're looking for a whole man or whole woman concept. They want to see people who are well-rounded, not just, ‘I'm an ace at athletics’, or ‘I'm a total egghead’. They want to see people well-rounded out, people who can demonstrate some leadership, some commitment to teamwork, and things like this.
Andrew Dow
Yes. And fortunately, our lateral transfers are inter-service. They're coming from communities where they served as leaders already. You got your O-1s, your Ensigns, Lieutenants, Second Lieutenants, your First Lieutenants, and your Lieutenant JGs. You have all these individuals who have leadership experience. So, these are important roles that the selection panel is looking for – that it's the whole man concept or woman concept, as you said.
Scott Williams
So, I know that a lot of people are probably wondering, this sounds really interesting. Gosh, I want to do that. How do I train for SOAS?
Andrew Dow
I want to say that a lot of people believe that if I can just train for the PST, I will crush SOAS. That is completely false. You should train for the PST to do well on the PST. But when you're training for SOAS, you need to be focused on lots of running, lots of swimming, lots of calisthenics, and lots of body weight lifts. And if you're looking for a specific guide, one of the mentions is the PTG, the physical training guide. It can be found on the SEAL SWCC website. It is 26 weeks of training from start to finish, and it's a good preparation tool to get you ready for SOAS because SOAS, in a nutshell, is BUD/S without all the BUD/S craziness of instructors yelling at your face. You're going to do Log PT; you're going to have boats on your heads. You're going to do four-mile time runs; you're going to do rucksack runs. So, this physical training guide will get you ready for that. And what I tell individuals is that you know, you train for the PST to do well on the PST, but when you're training for SOAS, you shouldn't be training like you're a bodybuilder. Shouldn't be trying to do it on a 500-pound bench press. You should be doing body weight lifts, high reps, lightweight, and long-distance like you want to be training as if you're a half marathoner.
Scott Williams
Endurance training?
Andrew Dow
Endurance training. Exactly. So that will that is a good starting point to get you ready for SOAS, but like that, PTG, the physical training guide on SEALSWCC.COM, that's where I direct a lot of candidates because it's a good starting point for them to get ready for SOAS.
Scott Williams
Well, I've heard the expression that BUD/S is a running man's game, but also the swim is very important too. And if you don't know how to do a combat side stroke, you may be at a disadvantage.
Andrew Dow
For those who don't know the combat side stroke. You could just YouTube it. The SEALSWCC.COM website has some videos that can or can show you the proper form. In the instruction for the PST, you can do breaststroke. That's one of the strokes that everyone should know. Crawl stroke or freestyle breaststroke, backstroke, all those different strokes, combat side stroke that the PST, you do combat side stroke during the PST; you can also do breaststroke, but combat side stroke is occupationally relevant. It's important because it has a lot of importance in the SEAL teams. It's a low, low signature. You save a lot of energy using it, and let's just look at the PST. What are you going to do right after the swim? You're going to do your pull-ups, your push-ups, and sit-ups. If you're doing the breaststroke, you're going to be burning out those chest muscles and arm muscles. The combat side stroke helps you spread out the conditioning of the entire stroke, right, so you won't be as fatigued when you're doing those evolutions. Those exercises excuse me, but it also has important value within the community in the teams. The combat side stroke allows you if you're injured. You're still able to propel yourself with one arm or with one leg. You're able to pull your buddy if he's injured, he or she is injured, and you're able to get them out of a bad situation also allows you to move your gear silently, so there's less splash in the water. That's why we've tried to instill in the candidates to learn the combat strike sidestroke early. So that's what you're going with because that's what you're going to use in BUD/S and the teams.
Scott Williams
So, I think it's important to point out that, you know, when it comes to physical conditioning and learning how to train for SOAS, what should I do?
Andrew Dow
Probably the best thing you can do is just use the free resources on SEALSWCC.COM. You don't need to pay for an expensive gym membership or, you know, follow some guy's routine, you know, pay for his subscription to do whatever; you don't need to pay for anything. And you don't need to get caught up in various, you know, fitness trends. Candidates today have the luxury of the Internet. And there's a ton of free stuff. I mean, I had to look up manuals and figure out what you do at BUD/S and how do I get ready, but with these resources, totally utilize them because they will get you ready. You, the SEAL community, are active in an active lifestyle. So, find things that can get you ready for SOAS, you know, utilize the SEALSWCC.COM web page. And whatever else is out there, you just want to be physically ready for SOAS because it is very challenging. It's not BUD/S, but it's a step to BUD/S. And it's very challenging.
Scott Williams
Okay, so last question. So, we're going to talk about if I'm thinking about coming to SOAS. Let's say I put in an application and got accepted. Now, how do I get there? I live in Missouri, let's say. And SOAS is conducted out here, in Coronado. West Coast, San Diego. How do I get myself from Missouri to San Diego? Do I have to pay for that ticket? Do they pay for me? What am I going to eat? How am I going to eat? Where am I going to stay? Tell me a little bit about the logistics of it.
Andrew Dow
Every single candidate, right, submits their application, and there's a down-select panel that the SEAL Officer Community Manager conducts, and from there, individuals will receive either an invitation or not, they're either going to SOAS or not. At that point, they'll start working with me, the SOAS Program Manager, to figure out how they get here, and I'll help them. I'll walk them through the steps of how they get to SOAS. We'll determine which block you'll attend, whether it's June, July, or August, but you will everything will be handled for you. If it's an ROTC, your chain of command will get your orders set up on which block you'll attend, and they will fly you or drop your POV (privately owned vehicle) and get your government vehicle to get you to SOAS.
For OCS, you'll work with me. I'll, we'll get you airfare, and we'll get you to SOAS. Lateral transfers are a different case. Right if your chain of commands is on board if you lateral transferring, maybe they'll pay for your flights. If not, you'll have to pay out of pocket. The big thing is getting to SOAS once you get there. Everything else is handled for you. Meals will be provided, lodging is provided, and everything is done in-house. So you won't have to worry about finding a hotel down out in town or where am I going to go eat at lunch. Everything is handled because everything is on the schedule. From the day you show up to the day you leave.
Scott Williams
And you mentioned that the first day when they arrive, they're going to get checked in, and they're going to get issued all the clothing and gear that they're going to need during SOAS.
Andrew Dow
Yeah, so once everyone arrives, if you're arriving at the airport, Naval Special Warfare Center, the assessment team for SOAS will get you a shuttle from the airport or pick you up at the front gate of NAB Coronado and get you to your lodging your barracks where you'll be staying. Once all the candidates for that SOAS block get there, you will go and get gear issued, where you'll get everything you'll need for SOAS. Prior to coming to SOAS, you'll receive a warning order we call a Warno, that will provide a gear list of things you will be required to bring like your toiletries, sleeping bag, pillow, change of clothes, some running shoes, just you know, things that you that we will not be able to provide you once everyone gets here we'll go get your gear issued your uniforms, your boots, your fins, your wetsuits, your canteens, everything you'll need for so as will be provided to you on that first day you check-in.
Scott Williams
That brings up a nice side question. I get asked a lot, "when I go to SOAS can I bring my medications or my vitamins or my shoe insoles?".
Andrew Dow
On this warning order, it will tell you everything you need to do. If there's a prescription that you're required to take, just like in anything, you'll check it into our medical department, and they'll issue it as needed. Supplements are not authorized at SOAS. If you're taking creatine or power whey protein or anything, you should stop that before coming, as that's not authorized. That's not authorized at BUD/S. That's not authorized at SOAS. Insoles, that's a great question.
I'm always asked whether boots are going to be issued. I tell all candidates to buy their boots. Spend $150 to $180 on boots because you want to come to SOAS with a pair of boots broken in because if you come and they'll issue your boots, but you're going to be running with bloody feet because the shoes are not broken in, and by the time they've broken in you're going to be heading home. So get your own pair of boots. Right now, BUD/S is issuing the Nike SFB generation 2 all-black, non-Gortex boot. I would highly suggest you go and get that. I would highly suggest you do this early on once you receive an invitation. Get them, and start breaking them in because you want to come to SOAS with broken-in boots.
Insoles – when I went through BUD/S, every person that went before me said, “get insoles”. Insoles are so important. Depending on what foot what size foot or what type of foot you have, if you have flat foot, arch foot, there are tons of different insoles. I highly suggest you purchase a nice insole that you can put in your boots and make sure you pre-workout in it prior to coming to SOAS because the thing you're going to be utilizing the most at BUD/S and SOAS is your feet and if your feet get destroyed, you're going to fail.
Scott Williams
Hey Andrew that sounds great. I appreciate you coming in here today and talking to us about the SOAS application process. And SOAS is really important for anyone who wants to be a SEAL officer. So we will continue this series about SOAS. Next, we will talk about the actual SOAS experience and what you can expect during those two weeks here at Coronado on the grinders of BUD/S and the sand dunes of Coronado. That's it for today. I'm Scott Williams, and we'll see you next time on The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday.
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Introduction: Life is about constant evolution. Always better today than we were yesterday.
Scott: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday.
I’m your host Scott Williams and today I have with me Andrew Dow who is going to school us on the topic of, what we call around here, SOAS. What is SOAS, Andrew?
Andrew: Thanks Scott. So, thanks for having me. It is always great to come by and discuss with you all. Again, my name is Andrew Dow. I am a retired SEAL Officer. I have been the SOAS, which stands for SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection, I am the program manager for this program, and I've been doing it since 2016 and it's come a long way.
Scott: Yeah, tell me a little bit about when SOAS began and why it's required if you want to become a SEAL Officer?
Andrew: So SOAS was instilled I think in 2014 and in 2014 is when it started building itself into what it is today. So, 2014 to 2016 was candidates from the Naval Academy, Officer Candidate School, ROTC would get an invitation to come to SOAS and basically train for 2 to 3 weeks and from that they would get some kind of score that would follow them with their application which would later determine if they become selected for SEAL Officer and in turn go to BUD/S
Probably around 2017 is when we really started seeing a change in the SOAS format and inviting every accession source cause SOAS…. Well let’s just talk about SOAS first before I dive into the timeline where we are.
Scott: So, what is SOAS?
Andrew: The SEAL Officer Assessment Selection is designed to assess aspiring SEAL candidate officers who want to go to BUD/S and become SEAL Officers you get Naval Academy candidates. You get Naval Academy candidates. You get ROTC candidates. You get Officer Community OCS candidates. You get inter-service transfers which is your Marine Corps officers, your Army officers, to Air Force officers. You get inter-service academy transfers which is your WestPoints, your Air Force academies, Coast Guard academies. You also get lateral transfer, lateral transfers being an individual that's already active duty and is in the surface Navy. They could be... we mostly see lateral transfers being surface warfare officers that do their time in the fleet and decide hey I want to submit an application to become a SEAL officer.
Scott: That could be an Intel Officer. That could be Aviation Officer, Supply Officer.
Andrew: It can be. We do not see a lot of pilots or back seaters or Weapon Officers or Pilots. I haven't seen many Intel Officers come through. It’s mostly just surface warfare. Because Submariner Sub Officers, they have so much schooling they have to go through... unless they undesignated ... they won't apply. Because in order to apply for a lateral transfer you have to have your warfare insignia right, your Surface Warfare pin. If you are a pilot, you have to have your pin for you can even apply but that timeline is just so far that we only ever see SWOS. SWOS, lateral transfers and they we will also see OCS (Officer Candidate School), active-duty enlisted sailors who want to become SEAL Officers. That’s a very, and I tell a lot of candidates this, that is a very difficult course to go. And it’s one of the … the reason it’s most difficult is your competing against active-duty SEAL enlisted who want to become officers. These individuals don't have to go to SOAS, they don't have to go to BUD/S. So those individuals, it’s an uphill battle to even go to SOAS and then from there to even be selected to go to BUD/S.
Scott: Talk a little bit about who has to go to SOAS, why its required. Who doesn’t have to go to SOAS?
Andrew: So, guys and gals who don’t have to go to SOAS are those who are already trident wearers, those who are active duty or reserve who are SEALs already, don’t have to attend SOAS.
Scott: Enlisted?
Andrew: Enlisted, yes.
SOAS is strictly for candidates who want to become SEAL Officers. The enlisted SEALs that apply to become SEAL officers, they submit an application like everyone else to the SEAL Officer Community Manager and then their application will go right to the selection panel in September. That is run by the Admiral, two-star Admiral, who will determine who gets the selection to BUD/S. So, everyone who goes to SOAS, who makes it through SOAS, their application and SOAS score will go to the selection panel which happens after SOAS, as well as any others that don’t have to attend SOAS -- those SEALs, and it will be determined who will go to BUD/S from there.
Scott: The only enlisted applicants for SOAS are going to be trident wearers?
Andrew: Yes, trident wearers. But it’s also other ratings in the Navy right. You can have your machinist’s mates, your ITs, your ETs, all of them. They do have to go to SOAS, but the SEALs do not. Another thing that may not be known is the SBs or Special (Warfare) Boat (Operator) crewman, or SWCCs, have to go to SOAS actually. Last year we had SBs that had the option to attend SOAS. We gave them the option because they have already been through BCT, they already have their warfare insignia for SWCC, but we said that it was in their best interest to go so they have a score because they are running against trident wearers who have already been through BUD/S, right. These individuals would still have to go to BUD/S. So SWCC also attended SOAS. So, any active duty enlisted from any branch right. So, in the past we’ve had Marine Corps enlisted attend SOAS. We’ve had Coast Guard enlisted attend SOAS but that’s another avenue and there is a lot more than, oh can I just apply. No, you have to get your brand of service approval before you can attend.
Scott: Right because there is no interservice transfer for enlisted into the Navy unless it's with the follow on going to OCS to become an officer.
Andrew: That is a very challenging core so listen to an example. You have a Marine Corps sergeant that did his or her time and wants to become a SEAL officer. They have to one get their chain of command approval from the Marines, from whatever community they are in the Marine Corps. The Marine community has to be willing to give up this individual to cross over to the Navy right. They will attend SOAS as a Marine Corps infantry man or supply corps, whatever rate (MOS) they have. They will attend SOAS as a Marine but when they graduate SOAS or when they finish SOAS and they go to selection panel, if they are chosen, they would then have to attend OCS Navy. They would then have to actually change services from Marine to Navy and then go to OCS. Then after they complete and graduate OCS they would attend BUD/S. But there are a lot of approvals that have to be done and it has to be willing of that service whether its Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Army, Air Force to allow them to go and change from their community to Navy.
Scott: Yeah, I would imagine you don’t see a lot of those other service member enlisted come through more interservice transfers for at the officer level the O-1s the O-2.
Andrew: No. So, in the past I’ve seen two enlisted and they were from the Marine Corps. Officers, you will get them from Army, Navy, mostly Marines Corps is the officers you see that go from their community and try to go SEALs. Army has been a little bit; I don’t think we’ve had an Army in the past.
Scott: What about Coast Guard?
Andrew: Coast Guard. I haven’t seen a Coast Guard Officer. There actually was one Coast Guard enlisted that came to SOAS. They weren't selected right so they would just go back to Coast Guard. But there hasn't been a Coast Guard enlisted, officer or enlisted, that's been selected to go to BUD/S through SOAS. From SOAS to the selection panel to BUD/S.
Scott: Now I’m about to go down a little bit of a rabbit hole but the question occurred to me, what if you had an interservice transfer officer from let’s say the Army. An Army second lieutenant or an Army first lieutenant that comes to SOAS, goes through all of SOAS and ultimately doesn't get selected by the board. Does that officer candidate then return to the Army in their former capacity or now do they have to go to the Navy as a general army officer?
Andrew: What happens if they aren’t selected, they will go back to their community. If they are selected that’s when the paperwork gets handled and then they would go from green to blue, or better term Army to Navy or Marine Corps to Navy. That happens after they're selected so if they're not selected, they will just go back to their unit and continue on with their career in that service they are currently in.
Scott: Ok. So, let’s talk a little bit about when and where SOAS is conducted. Is this an annual thing? Is it a season? What is it?
Andrew: So SOAS happens during the summer. SOAS is broken down into 3 blocks, each block is 2 weeks long. SOAS blocks are usually 2 weeks in June, 2 weeks in July and 2 weeks in August. We see candidates come from all over the U.S., from every accession source and they come and attend SOAS in Coronado, California at NAB, Naval Amphibious Base Coronado. And they’ll be doing SOAS where BUD/S is held. They’ll see BUD/S students running around, they will be doing evolutions very similar to BUD/S, but it happens in Coronado three times a year: 2 weeks during June, July, and August. They will attend. So, it happens annually.
Scott: Can you give me just a brief overview without getting too far into the details about the SOAS training schedule. Like what happens in that first week and what happens in that second week?
Andrew: Ok. SOAS is 2 weeks long. First week is assessment week. Second week is interview week. Candidates will show up on a Saturday, get their gear issues, check in and fill out any paperwork that is needed for them to attend SOAS. They will go to bed and wake up. The first evolution that they are going to see is a PST.
Scott: So, they are really testing right out of the gate?
Andrew: Yeah, and in the past, we did the PST as the first evolution but something that we are now going forward with is, and we did it last year is, that PST (physical screening test) that all SEAL applicants have to take is pass or fail. If you fail it, you're going to go home right there; that is the first test day. So, if you pass it, you will move on to Monday, which actually starts all the evolutions of SOAS. But to give you what the physical screening test, the PST is you have your 450-meter/500-yard combat side stroke swim, then you will go into 2-minute max pushups, 2 minutes max sit ups and then your maximum pull up get a little bit of a break and then you’ll do a mile and a half run. Most of what we see, candidates when they submit an application, some of the stronger scores for a PST are 800 and below. The lower the score the better score. Most of the candidates are in the 700-800 range.
Scott: Now I’d like to point out that if candidates that want to go to SOAS want to test themselves they can just go to sealswcc.com and use our PST calculator for officers and it will give them that composite score, that 800 or more or less that you were just talking about. So, you can find out where you’re at do a self-assessment and if you’re cranking over 1000 you know maybe the higher the score the worse it is for us you know so if you are hitting 1040 on the PST calculator your composite score you may have some training to do.
Andrew: You have some work to do. Right and honestly, we are open to anyone attending but you’re not gonna get an invitation to SOAS if your score is that high. You have to have a competitive and just like you said the SEAL SWCC has those optimal scores just like those targets for candidates to work towards, but it is you’re not going to do well if you can’t get under an 800. You're just physically not ready.
Scott: And SOAS, the process for accession for officers, is actually hyper competitive and you would probably say it’s harder to get a seat here at the schoolhouse as an officer than it is going through an enlisted contract process
Andrew: Without a doubt. The SEAL officer pipeline, I mean since SOAS in its creation, if you look at the officers who go to BUD/S the success rate has been so much higher than prior to SOAS. The SOAS program has refined the candidates that go to SOAS and then on to BUD/S and their success rate has been off the charts.
Scott: And would you say that is because of the prevailing belief in the command that the officers serving as SEALs should always be setting an example for their men?
Andrew: Right if we want to look at the roles of an officer and an enlisted, everyone is a leader in the community. Everyone is a leader in the team. The officers have to be the responsible parties willing to make the tough decisions and potentially put their team in harm’s way. So, we are looking for those officers, those individuals, that are willing to step up and be that leader for these men and women that are willing to serve their country. SOAS really assesses and looks at every different type of quality. I mean there is a leadership selection measurement model that we utilize where we are looking at their cognitive ability, their character, their competence in different fields like physical fitness, their water competence. These are all being tested while they are at SOAS, during that first week, the assessment week.
Big things they’re looking at: team ability, attitude, their communication being able to talk to individuals who you’ve never met before. I mean, a lot of these candidates never meet each other and they’re shipped to SOAS and they come to SOAS and it’s, OK here it’s time to work together. Which ones are able to do that? Which ones are able to work with people who they’ve never met before and be proactive and get things done? That’s what’s pretty cool about SOAS is you have these individuals who are able to you know pull up next to someone and, you know, be like, hey, we need to do this, and the other guy understands right away.
Scott: Cognitive abilities. Let’s go back to that for just a second. Tell me what we are thinking in terms of cognitive ability, what we are looking for.
Andrew: Yeah, cognitive ability is one of the key components we're looking at when we’re assessing candidates. You know I think that the admiral put it, don’t quote me on this, but the admiral was saying we are looking for individuals with character, competency and the other one is that cognitive ability. Looking at future leaders who can do that critical thinking, that can think outside the box. Instead of going from point A to point B, they are able to find another route; maybe it’s an easier route or maybe it is a harder route but it’s less risk in that route. They are able to think outside the box and figure out different ways to solve an equation, for lack of better terms. The critical thinking of the individual is key because at SOAS your gonna be tested with all these critical thinking evolutions, teamwork evolutions, a lot of problem solving. Everyone thinks BUD/S is how many push-ups can you do, how long can you stay in the cold water … yeah those are important elements that we are looking for in individuals but at SOAS we are diving deeper into how individuals think, how individuals work as a team. Are they able to play nice with others and are they able to motivate and get these people they’ve never met before to work together onto a common goal to achieve success?
Scott: I mean SEALs work typically in small units, far fun places and having that element leader be able to think quickly on their feet to react to situations and it's not necessarily always combat. It’s about what happens when you run across some locals, how do you handle that situation. These are the things that a SEAL officer should be expected to adapt quickly and think quickly on his feet to handle it properly, right?
Andrew: Right
Scott: When we also talk about character, that is a big thing, we don’t want just any schmo putting on a trident and getting out there and doing things, right? Explain to us a little bit about what kind of character that the assessment team is looking for when they get SOAS candidates here.
Andrew: One of the big things the assessor -- by the way, the assessors are SEAL and SWCC instructors that we utilize from BUD/S and BCT that come and work with us so they can assess. There not instructing, I mean they instruct on evolutions that need some guidance, but they’re not actually being BUD/S instructors. They are assessing, so they are watching everything you do and one of the big things they are looking at is character. An assessor is looking at these individuals to see, would I follow this guy or gal into combat? Is this someone I can look up to and be able to put my life on the line because they told me what to do? So, when we are looking at character, the assessors are looking at does this person have integrity? Are they doing the right thing when no one is looking? Are they willing to do the right thing all the time or do they look to cut corners? They look at humility. Are they willing to sacrifice themselves for their boat crew or their swim buddy? When the assessors are looking at the character, there looking at their integrity, humility. What are they doing when faced with adversity, and as simple as adversity is we’re about to attack this evolution, it’s log PT, it’s gonna be a very challenging evolution? Am I going to put myself on the hard position on the log which is the end spots on the log, to help my team my perform better? Am I going to sacrifice myself and basically the pain, the pain of the log is at the end? So, the assessors are looking at these character traits of each individual. Are they a good person? Are they willing to do the hard job? Cause the assessors are watching you even after hours. Are you one of the individuals who are just running to the showers to go clean up and not do your after-hours work, or are you the one staying behind to make sure everything gets done at the end of the day so you can go take your shower or get cleaned up or go have your chow for the day? It's really the character is looked at and assessed even though it might not be documented structurally during evolutions, but it is being looked at throughout because at the end of the day, these assessors could potentially be your platoon mates and they want to be working with individuals that this guy or gal is doing the right thing all the time.
Scott: Ok let me wrap this up a little bit. So SOAS is a necessary step for virtually all applicants who want to become SEAL officers?
Andrew: Yes.
Scott: Ok to summarize for our audience the key topic here is what is SOAS? So, give us a couple of key important things that they need to know about SOAS when they are considering an application to be a SEAL officer.
Andrew: SOAS is a key component for potential aspiring SEAL officers. They need to attend this. They are going to get assessed by current SEAL operators and officers and SWCC enlisted, and this is the future of Naval Special Warfare for them to earn a right to go to BUD/S. SOAS was designed so we are sending the best officer candidates to BUD/S so BUD/S doesn’t have to worry about filtering the good or the bad officers, they are already getting a good product and that is what SOAS is designed to do. Find those good individuals that Naval Special Warfare is looking for to send to BUD/S with the intent that these individuals are going to get through BUD/S and they later on are going to become the assistant officer in charge or the platoon commanders or the troop commanders or future executive and commanding officers. So SOAS is designed to assess a bunch of different components of individuals and create a score that our senior leadership is going to determine who goes to BUD/S.
Scott: Andrew that sounds great and thanks for joining us today. What we are going to do is, we are going to continue this topic in some more episodes cause we are going to talk about the application process and we’re gonna go check out a SOAS and see what happens and then we will also talk about what happens after all of that is done and what the candidates can expect. But until we do, I appreciate your time today and we will talk again soon.
Andrew: Thanks for having me! -
SEAL/SWCC Podcast 2022
Episode 42
Title: How do I become a SEAL Officer?
Subtitle: The How-To guide for candidates
Description: We dive into the mailbag and answer your questions about SEAL Officer programs with our guest, Andrew Dow.
(Host) Scott: Welcome to The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday, the official Navy SEAL and SWCC podcast. I'm Scott Williams, your host, and today we have with us, Andrew Dow, who's a retired SEAL, and also our officer programs expert. And we thought, well, today we’d just take a look inside the mailbag. We get a lot of questions about officer accession programs, and in particular, about what we call SOAS which is the SEAL Officer Accession and Selection. And maybe Andrew, you can just start by giving us kind of a synopsis of what SOAS is.
(Guest) Andrew: Sure, well, first of all, thanks for having me again, guys. SOAS, the SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection, was developed in 2014 and it has now become an official program for the Navy, prerequisite for BUD/S, Basic Underwater Demolition SEALS. It's a two-week long course where we assess officer candidates, whether they're coming from the Naval Academy, ROTC, OCS candidates, lateral transfers, some candidates from the big Navy active duty. It’s a two-week course of instruction during the summer where we will assess specifically four attributes that we're looking at: one being their cognitive abilities, their character, which is a real important one, their leadership and their ‘team-ability’. That's what we're looking at with those four main attributes. They will go through a week of physical and mental assessment evolutions, where we will be testing them through their physical capabilities, as well as presenting them with some mental challenges that they'll be faced with. One being, it could be, you know, some evolutions they'll see as similar to what they'll see in BUD/S more, it's log PT, or boats on their heads. But they'll also be introduced to new types of evolutions that specifically are assessed there, those four big traits. And then the second week being interview week, where they will sit down with an officer and a senior enlisted SEAL in the community, and they will sit down – and note it's a business interview, where there will be asked questions and regarding the community, regarding where they stand and how they were raised, challenges they faced, and to get a good idea of what the individual, who the individual is. And all this gets thrown together and goes to the selection panel, which happens after SOAS.
Scott: And just to be clear, this is not for enlisted candidates; it's for officer candidates only. And when does SOAS occur during the assessment pathway?
Andrew: SOAS happens during the summer, and it happens, like I said, two weeks, in June, two weeks in July, two weeks in August, and this happens after applications have been submitted to the SEAL Officer Community Manager. And correct, like you said, it's only for SEAL officer candidates; the enlisted side is completely separate. Those applications are due in February to the SEAL OCM, and from there it's a – they find out if they receive an invitation to SOAS, they complete SOAS, then the SEAL selection panel, which is a panel of O-5 and O-6 SEAL officers that determines who will receive orders to BUD/S. After that, pretty much a month, two months after that, depending on which accession source, you will head off to BUD/S.
Scott: Okay, so it's definitely pre BUD/S.
Andrew: Yes.
Scott: And it's after the application piece. You get a notification; if you're invited you come here during the summer, and then you get notified if you're going to attend BUD/S. And that notification usually comes when?
Andrew: So, selection panel is in September. Most candidates, specifically OCS, will be notified late October. ROTC and Naval Academy, since they're rising seniors, they won't find out until about December timeframe, because they won't actually go to BUD/S until the summer of graduation. But OCS candidates can leave anytime between November to April, where they would first have to attend OCS in Newport, Rhode Island, for 12 weeks and then a month after that they will report to BUD/S. So, they could get to BUD/S as early as January-February after the selection panel and be at BUD/S getting after it.
Scott: So, we're talking about a good year, year and a half process from deadline of application to actually showing up for BUD/S, if you're selected.
Andrew: Easily, yeah. Most candidates, it's about a two-year cycle. OCS, it's a little sooner because they already have their degree, right? To become a Naval Officer or any officer, you have to have at least a four-year degree to earn your commission. So, it's usually about two years.
Scott: So, much longer timeline than a guy going for an enlisted contract?
Andrew: Absolutely.
Scott: Good. I mean, (an enlisted candidate) may even show up a month after he gets a contract, but usually more like three to six months, but way longer for officer candidates. So, this is why it's good to apply when you're in your junior year?
Andrew: Yes. Great question. Most candidates I start trying to reach out to them their freshman, sophomore year in college, just so they have an idea and so they have all their answers before they actually submit an application. So they can, you know, start building their resume. But usually, candidates start their application, whether it's ROTC or Naval Academy, their junior year.
Scott: OCS candidates usually are either graduated already, or about to graduate that May, so they'll start their application usually August for a February deadline. Okay, so we have a lot of questions that people out there have sent to us and by the way, but before we get into those, I'll just say if you have questions about SOAS, about SEAL officer programs in general, or whether you have questions about the SEAL community, even if you want to be enlisted, or the SWCC community, if you want to be an enlisted SWCC – Andrew, how can they get a hold of us?
Andrew: Well, for the SEAL Officer side, they can just go to Google, sealswcc.com is a great resource to find all things – SEAL Officer requirements, as well as the enlisted side for both SEAL and SWCC. But my contact information is there on that website. That's probably the easiest way to find out more about it. And from there, I can get you on the SEAL email distro, which is an opportunity for aspiring SEAL candidates to come together. And I send announcements out regarding upcoming events, specifically for SEAL officers. So, it's a good resource to have, just going to sealswcc.com is where you start.
Scott: Right, sealswcc.com is our home website. It's where all the information is, where you can find out about training, about accession and a lot of other things about the community and our general email there, which actually comes to me and so I can send things over to Andrew or whoever I need to, to get answers. It is [email protected] for all your questions. So, we're gonna do a few today. We have so many here, we'll probably schedule you for another session and we'll answer some more, but all of these questions that we're about to cover are about SOAS, so I'm going to kind of randomly throw some of these out of here, reach into my mailbag - okay, I totally faked that - and we're going to have some questions. So, all right, how about this one? “Will knowing a second language help with my SOAS package? If so, what languages should I learn?”
Andrew: Alright, so languages in general is a good quality of good capability to have when you're looking into the SEAL community. SF (Special Forces) requires all their operators to learn a language. The SEAL community does not, but it's always a good tool to have when it comes down to it – specifically for the SOAS application it is not a requirement. It's a nice to have specifically languages that SEALs are operating in. You can just check out the news where their major conflicts going on, those areas and the regions that there could potentially be presence, military presence, are good spots to start learning what language you could potentially learn. However, it is not going to get you to SOAS. It's a good thing to have, it's a nice resume booster, but it is not the thing that is a requirement.
Scott: Could it separate you from the pack?
Andrew: It can, and you know from experience guys and gals that speak a language are more in tune to learn another language, you know, they can learn multiple languages and that can be very, very powerful tool within the community being able to speak multiple languages. I think having a good understanding, not just a basic understanding but working knowledge of this language of a specific language, will definitely help you in the end but I mean, this is just such a small part before going to SEALs, before going to BUD/S, before going into SOAS. I mean it's good to have, but it's not necessary. However, it doesn't hurt. So, languages like, you know, the big ones most people take if they're doing any type of major is whether it's Spanish, French, German. But obviously some of the big ones were no longer in Iraq and Afghanistan. So, the Arabic language and other dialects isn't as ...
Scott: .... not quite as immediate use as it used to be, right?
Andrew: Right, but I mean, being able to speak any of those languages is what puts you above everyone else and it will definitely jump out on the application, and seeing that you can speak any of those dialects.
Scott: Well, considering that we have SEALs and SWCC in more than 100 countries around the world, there's plenty to choose from. I guess we would strongly encourage English.
Andrew: I would hope so. That's an important language. Yeah.
Scott: Portuguese, you know? You got to think about where we could possibly be in the world, right? So French and Spanish are widely spoken languages around the world; Dutch, Portuguese, Chinese, Russian – you know, the usual candidates? So, it's a good thing to have, it's not a requirement.
Andrew: No, it's not. It's a nice to have and it won't hurt, right? But if you have to choose between, okay, a language or having a better GPA, you want to lean towards having a better GPA. You know, academics is important when you're applying specifically for the SEAL officer route.
Scott: Now, one question I've heard before is, ‘do I need to learn how to, you know, dive or snorkel or, you know, shoot a gun, before I get to BUD/S?’
Andrew: Scott, it's funny you say that. A lot of classmates of mine never dove, never shot a weapon in their life before coming to BUD/S, and they were probably some of our best shooters and best divers because they were a blank canvas - everything the instructors taught them, they absorbed and were able to do it the exact way the instructors were telling them to do it, vice having a person who shot their whole life or dove their whole life has all these incorrect, habits, right, bad habits that are hard to fix and hard to relearn. So, you don't need to have any of that experience if you have a will to serve, a will to lead. That's what the community is looking for: good men and women who are willing to, you know, potentially make the ultimate sacrifice. Everything else will be taught to you, and you'll be expected to learn it, and learn it fast and learn it well.
Scott: Okay, let's look at another question. Here we talk about elements of the package: “What does a good letter of recommendation look like? What should be included in a letter of recommendation?”
Andrew: The SEAL Officer Community Manager got rid of letters of recommendation; they're now called letters of references. It's a templated format that you can find on the SEAL Officer Community Manager page. You give it to someone who you feel would write a good letter of recommendation, they will complete this letter of reference and submit it along with your application. It's general questions to talk about who you are as an individual. What some of your goals are, your strengths, your weaknesses, things that really paint a good picture about your character, and what you represent? And that leads into who should you get for these letters of reference.
Scott: Right. Are we talking about a four-star admiral or Chuck Norris? Or who?
Andrew: Hey, if you're great friends, or if your father or mother are great friends with these types of individuals, and they know you personally, yeah, I would get Chuck Norris in a heartbeat. But most people don't know Chuck Norris or a four-star admiral. But if you do know these types of high-caliber people, yeah, it doesn't hurt for them to write your letter of reference. But at the end of the day, the SEAL officer board wants to see the letters of reference from people who know you as in a personal level, right? Some people I suggest the candidates get is guidance counselors, professors, coaches. Maybe you have a family friend that served in the military. And a big question I get is ‘do I have to get a SEAL? Like a SEAL officer, SEAL enlisted to write my letter of reference?’ And the answer is no. It's nice to have but at the end of the day, it's not necessary. But if you do have someone in your family chain or in your network of people, I would highly suggest you reach out to them and see if they're willing to write a letter of reference for you. That will help.
Scott: The point is that you don't have to go military celebrity hopping, they want somebody who has true insight into the character of the person they're writing about.
Andrew: Right. Don't just search for that cookie cutter signature. You know, it was a four-star general, who is your mother's cousin's sister's best friend’s husband's friend, right, just because their signature is so known. They don't know you. And that's what we're looking for – people who know you.
Scott: Yeah, so probably not their local senator who just met you over mail.
Andrew: Correct. Right.
Scott: Okay. Got it. What are some common mistakes seen in SOAS candidates throughout the first week? Our readers want to know – sorry – listeners.
Andrew: This is a great question. Some of the things that we see in candidates showing up, they're not prepared with running. And SOAS, BUD/S, everywhere you go, you're running. Whether it's a sprint, or it's a jog. You're going from point A to point B, and you're running. We have candidates showing up who are struggling just with this. And something I suggest to all candidates is, you know, it's important that you're training, not just for long distance, but short distance. You should be a good sprinter, and a good long distancer. You don't need to be a marathon runner to go to BUD/S, it will help and to go to SOAS it will be very helpful. But that's not just being able to condition and maintain a pace that’s what is important to get through SOAS and BUD/S. Those guys and gals who can run three-hour marathons. Yeah, that will you probably make it for the running portion, but it's not going to get you through log PT, it's not going to get you through the ruck run specifically, which leads me to rucking.
Scott: Rucking, soft sand, boots, we get these questions all the time, should they be training like that?
Andrew: I caution this because I don't want to see candidates get injured prior to coming to SOAS or BUD/S, but something you will face at SOAS is rucking, and you know, it's an unknown weight, but I'll tell you, it's somewhere between 35 and 45 pounds. Everywhere you go, you'll be carrying this weight and there may be evolutions at SOAS where you'll be (running) an unknown distance for time to complete a ruck run, so your first time wearing a rucksack with 35 to 45 pounds shouldn't be at SOAS. I would definitely prep with that. But you need to make sure you're pushing yourself to an understandable limit, so you don't hurt yourself. Because that's something we don't want to see: guys and gals training too hard and hurting themselves and then they underperform at SOAS, so be cautious with how you train using a ruck. There's a lot of informative videos out there on how to ruck properly, people think it's just throwing a backpack on and start running. Now there's actually technique to rucking properly, and oh yeah, by the way, you're going to do it on the sand. Do your research before you jump into it. And Scott, just like you said, guys and gals are not used to wearing boots. I'm not saying strap on your boots and go run in public because some people may find that embarrassing, but I would highly suggest the first time you wear boots isn't at SOAS. At SOAS you'll get issued a pair of boots if you need it, but I suggest to everyone spend the $160-$180 and get yourself a good pair of boots that you can break in. The boot that they're utilizing at BUD/S and it used to be the Bates Light, but they moved away from that and now they're using the Nike SFB boot in color black, non-Gortex. I get this question a lot. Why non-Gortex? Well, you're going to be getting wet and sandy and you want your boot to be able to drain. A Gortex boot doesn't drain well like a non-Gortex boot. Nike SFB generation 2, black, non-Gortex boot, that you can find a range of prices. They're expensive, but it once you get them broken in, it's like wearing running shoes and it will definitely pay dividends in the end when you show up to SOAS prepared with a good broken-in boot and you can crush all the evolutions that require you to run on the sand.
Scott: Yeah, and probably not a good idea to make your very first run on the sand the first time you're also wearing boots and the first time you're carrying a ruck, right?
Andrew: Yeah, it's funny you say that but let's picture the individual who lives in the middle of the United States where they're not going to have a beach front. Get yourself on a trail, do some trail running with these boots. You know you want to find a terrain that is not blacktop concrete. You want to find something that gives a little bit so your muscles get used to running on uneven soft or a different type of surface so your body is prepared for that. Because that's all that's out here. I mean, we're looking out our window right now and it's all beach, soft and hard sand.
Scott: If you're in the middle of farmland, hey, find a pasture and run out there because that's going to work pretty well, I think.
Andrew: Absolutely. Just getting miles with these boots on uneven, different types of terrain will definitely carry dividends when you get to SOAS.
Scott: Okay, so staying on the topic of physical fitness, someone else asked, “aside from training for a good PST score, what are some good exercises or workouts you would recommend to be physically prepared for SOAS?”
Andrew: Being a Navy Seal, everyone thinks, you know, you got to be this super big and muscular individual to do things and carry all this weight and do all that. Most Navy SEALs aren't like that. They're in good shape, they have good cardio, are able to maintain a certain pace for a long time, are physically strong and you know, durable within their muscles. What I'm getting at is you don't need to be a bodybuilder or CrossFit superstar to be able to be a good Navy SEAL operator, right? You should be doing high reps, lighter weight. You don't need to be, you know, doing single-rep, max bench press squats; you need to be doing high reps, lower weight, you know, probably not even over your body weight. That's what you want to be doing. But know that you're preparing yourself for the worst-case scenario where you would have to, you know, potentially drag your teammate out of harm's way right, and your teammate can weigh anywhere between 150 pounds to 250 pounds. You need to be able to move that weight. But in preparation to do that, you need to be able to continue and go at a certain pace with a certain type of strength, which leads to high reps, lower weight, right? If you need to move something heavy, really quick, you'll be able to do that.
Scott: Well, I've seen guys training before, team guys, and it's nothing like the training I've seen when we tell guys to get ready for a good PST. Knowing that, these candidates’ first step is blowing away a PST, not looking like Captain America for a mission overseas. That's a whole different level of fitness. They can do that when they get this far. But in the beginning when they just need to impress a SOAS board with good PST scores, what are they looking at for exercise?
Andrew: Some people prepare for a PST for SOAS. That's the wrong way to prepare. You prepare for the PST to take the PST to submit with your application. Once you submit your application, you need to start training as if you're an endurance athlete. Like I said: high reps, low weight. Not a marathon runner, but being able to run four miles in 28 to 30 minutes. You know, maintaining a pace. Being able to do 100 straight perfect push-ups, that gives you muscle flexibility, all repetitions are in good form. Have a good condition of (your) body. Because a lot of the evolutions you do at SOAS and at BUD/S are high reps, repetitive movements. Let's look at log PT: a lot of shoulder strength, a lot of legs, leg strength. Working your lower body is very important because like I said, running is everywhere you go, you're running, you're going to be doing log PT, you're going to be doing races. So, making sure you have a strong lower body and strong shoulders is very important prior to coming to SOAS, and the big thing is making sure you're healthy. You don't want to overtrain and hurt yourself because you're not stretching enough. What I'm telling individuals is, stretch after you do your workouts just so your muscles have a time to cool down and you're not getting hurt. Big things are: you’re training for a marathon without being a marathon runner, high reps, lower weight, and you should be focusing on leg strength and shoulder strength because that's 90% of the type of workouts you're going to be seeing at SOAS.
Scott: And for the PST they can use the physical training guide on sealswcc.com to get them ready. Once they knock out that great PST, then they can focus on the SOAS training, which is a bit of a different kind of training. So how would you rank the or weight the requirements, the PST, the letters of reference, university, et cetera, of a SOAS package for an invitation? What's most important?
Andrew: The first thing the board does see (on) the down-select panel, which is the SEAL Officer Community Manager, the first thing they're going to look at is your PST score. Over the years we've had much more competitive scores. Now they've starting to get a little bit lower, but we're still seeing a very competitive score somewhere between the 700-800 comp score. What does that look like? We're looking at a nine-minute 500-yard swim, 90-plus push-ups, 90-plus sit-ups, 15-plus pull-ups, and a 9:30 mile and a half run.
Scott: Yeah, and I'll just interject here that if you go on sealswcc.com we have a PST calculator. And the PST calculator will give you that composite score and tell you where you are. And there is one specifically for officers, it's a different set of standards, it's higher standards. So, use that PST calculator for officers. Plug in your scores, and you'll find out where you are and how much you need to improve.
Andrew: Right. And you know, the thing we're seeing most is guys and gals (with) run times that aren't good, but also pull-ups. When you do your PST for your application and you submit it, the first thing you're going to do if you get invited to SOAS is a PST. So, you better ensure that your PST is accurate to what you submitted, right? Because quality assurance isn't always up to standard because at SOAS you're going to have a one-to-one ratio with assessor to candidate. They're going to be watching every push-up, every pull-up, every sit-up, and it's really important that you're doing good form and practicing this good form prior to coming to SOAS. Cause they're going to discount the reps that don't meet the form.
Scott: Yeah. And potentially you could get dropped from SOAS if you get checked...
Andrew: You can get dropped from SOAS if you're doing improper form. If you get hit several times on doing something incorrectly, you could potentially get sent home.
Scott: Don't deselect yourself by having crappy form on your curl-ups or your push-ups, right?
Andrew: So back to the question, you're saying, right, so PST is very important. That's the first thing they're going to look at. GPA, that's very important to have a strong GPA, but the board understands that a mechanical engineer GPA, and an economics GPA, if they're the same, you know, mechanical engineers usually have a harder workload, right? I was an econ major, and I had buddies who were mechanical engineers, we had the same GPA, but they had a much harder workload than me. Granted, you know, I shied away from my focus on academics sometimes because I was focused on athletics, but just know that if you have a 3.0 mechanical engineer, GPA, that's okay. You don't need to have a 4.0 but if you have a 2.0 Economics GPA, I would have a little concern. Because unless you're a division one superstar athlete and, you know, fell along the wayside of not studying all the time because you had to focus on your team and your team came first, the board will understand that. There's a lot of things that play into your GPA, but having a strong GPA, you know, 3.0, good to go. Right. And the degree kind of matters. There isn't a specific degree the community is looking for. They're specifically looking for, okay, you picked a degree, you stayed with it, and you succeeded and earned that degree. Specific degrees aren't a primary thing they're looking for when they're looking at an application. So, PST, strong GPA. And probably another one is having a background in something, whether it's in sports, in extracurricular activities, doing something outside of just academics. And what I like to call ‘building your brand’. So along with in your SOAS application, you're going to submit a resume. And this is basically a brag sheet about you, the candidate. So, the more things you do outside of school or outside of work that gets added to your resume that makes you look a more enticing candidate for SOAS. Doing other things, that interest you is important to do, and it helps build your brand as a candidate. If you're at Notre Dame, and you're an NROTC candidate, and all you're doing is NROTC, you're wrong. You need to be doing something outside of NROTC. Whether it's playing a sport, doing some sort of club. I'm not saying go walk on Notre Dame football, right? If you played football in high school, maybe there's a club sport, maybe there's something else. The whole point is to have that team environment. The teams are the teams, the SEAL teams. You’re working alongside men and women serving, and you need to be used to this team environment. That's why it is so important to maintain that prior to SOAS. So, at college do things that involve teamwork.
Scott: I’ve heard the commodore often talk about team-ability being a crucial attribute in SEALs and SWCC too.
Andrew: And it starts in high school, college, and continues if you choose to go SEALs, to the teams.
Scott: Makes sense. So those are the priorities for a package. We have time for one more today and we will have to have you back because we have a lot more questions to ask. So last one for today: “What is the best way for OCS candidates to compete with Naval Academy and NROTC candidates, given the lack of military experience and background that they may have?”
Andrew: OCS candidates. It is sometimes difficult for those applicants because some of them don’t have any military experience at all, whether their parents, mom or dad served, or their grandparents served. Some of them don’t have that luxury. Where Naval Academy and NROTC, they’re thrown into the military lifestyle right away – once you get to school, you’re part of the military. Learning how to march, learning how to salute, learning how to make your bed properly. OCS candidates don’t have that luxury and they aren’t gonna have that luxury until they go to Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island. So, some things that they can do: first off, OCS candidates you need to reach out to me. You can get my point of contact at sealswcc.com or it’s [email protected]. That’s a good way to reach me, but you can find my email at the sealswcc.com website. The reason I say you need to reach out to me is for a couple of things. One, I have a SEAL officer email distribution list. This is a list I’ve been collecting since I’ve started doing this and it’s all current applicants who are interested in going the SEAL officer route. I send out announcements about different opportunities for OCS and ROTC candidates. Some of these announcements will notify you of upcoming webinars that I host. I host about six a year, and these webinars go through the SOAS application, it goes through NSW 101. I get guest speakers on, some senior officers, junior officers, senior enlisted, junior enlisted, to come on and talk about officer enlisted relationships and some of the challenges they face as SEAL operators. But it gives OCS candidates an opportunity to learn about the community ahead of time and it also tries to balance the playing field with their Naval Academy and ROTC teammates. Naval Academy has SEALs in the yard – and the yard is the campus – so they have an officer and an enlisted and sometimes even another officer on the academy grounds that they can reach out to as a resource. OCS and NROTC do not, so that is why we started these webinars for them to have a touch point and a place they can go to, one, talk to a Navy SEAL, me, or talk to some of my special guests that I have come on, but it also gives them an opportunity to talk within each other to create their own network. It gives them a good common area where they can meet and potentially build friends and training buddies to get prepared for SOAS. To ask questions and bounce things off each other. That’s the distro that puts out announcements about the webinars. We also host OCS and NROTC exposure weekends here in Coronado. Those are by invitation only; you register, and I notify you if you get invited, and it’s basically modeled after the Naval Academy SEAL screener, and what we do is run you through some challenging evolutions for about 24 to 26 hours of hard evolutions that you may or may not see at SOAS or BUD/S. But it gives you the opportunity to see if, one, this is for you, and two, what you need to work on. And it prepares you for SOAS. Don’t worry about the military part because the whole SOAS staff understands that you have no military background or knowledge of the military so you're not going to be graded on poor military bearing, or the way you wear your uniform improperly. They understand that you are going to learn that after SOAS because OCS candidates don't go to OCS until after they’ve been selected and been told they are going to BUD/S - that’s when they will go to OCS. They go to OCS after SOAS and before BUD/S while the Naval Academy and NROTC have been through some military training. And another thing that they can work on is most of our OCS candidates have their degree already, so they have graduated already and work in corporate America or the public sector. Stay active and continue to do things that you would do. Surround yourself with challenges, go to your local gym and join the club swimming team. Continue to stay active and do sports and types of extracurricular activities outside of your work. You can stay active and stay engaged so you can have that competitive edge when you get to SOAS. Maintain that and don’t get lazy after you graduate.
Scott: Thanks for that. I want to put in a quick plug for Andrew. Folks, the only way you're going to hear about this stuff, besides hearing what we say quickly here on the podcast, is by going to sealswcc.com. Check out the officer accession page; you're going to see Andrew’s name and email on there. Contact him so he can tell you about these things that are meant to help you, so you can get on that email list and we can let you know what is going on, and you can explore the community from there. I appreciate you for coming in today and we are going to do this again, because we have plenty more questions. Folks, that was Andrew Dow, the officer community expert, and I'm Scott Willliams...and this was “The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday.”
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By: Naval Special Warfare
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