Bölümler
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How do we make magic boards last longer?
Gary McNeill and Dave have been experimenting with alternative, non-petrochemical materials for the last decade. The front runner in their experiments? Flax cloth, for board strength and durability.
Stab recently ran The Electric Acid Surfboard Test, to explore the validity of their flax tinkerings.
This episode features the flax master himself, shaper Gary McNeill.
Gazza absolutely fizzes about all things board design. He's an accomplished competitive surfer and has worked as production manager and/or ghost shaper for some of surfing’s most well-known board brands. Today, he focuses his energy on making left of centre, high performance surfboards under the Gary NcNeill Concepts label.
Gazza considers himself an 'accidental activist;' in the pursuit of good design, he cemented a more ethical business model. He hopes to help the board building industry mature beyond 'planned obsolesce.'
"As a result of growing up in humble surroundings, I have a full appreciation of the value of a dollar. In creating my Concept boards, I always strive to produce high-performance boards using materials that provide strength and longevity.
I want customers to have a board that they can build a quiver around, that last, and that they know they can surf in the conditions that best suit them, and their boards. Importantly, boards that last reduce environmental impact."We wrangled Gazza into sitting down for a whole hour to share more about his story, and the nitty gritty of experimental surfboard design and materials.
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Many professional athletes struggle to transition from their sport-as-career. The highs are often out of reach for pedestrian life - especially for pro surfers who spend their years in whirlwinds of hedonistic wave chasing.
For Puerto Rican tube connoisseur Otto Flores, the key to transition was community.
After many national titles and a spell on the World Qualify Series, Otto veered away from competitive surfing and toward chasing perfect waves of consequence, a decision that landed him on the covers of all the mainstream surf mags through the early 2000s.Today, Otto is based on his home island with family, where he's held in the highest regard for a community minded spirit and commitment to protecting Puerto Rico’s coastlines.
In 2017, he lead a team with Waves for Water in the aftermath of Hurricanes Irma and Maria, helping set a course for recovery with an emphasis on sustainability.
More recently, Otto was instrumental in working with Save the Waves Coalition to secure 8 kilometres of Puerto Rico’s northwest as its 11th recognised World Surf Reserve. The World Surfing Reserves is a program of Save the Waves Coalition, which is a nonprofit focused exclusively on conservation of surfing coastlines on an international scale.
We caught up with Otto to talk about stepping into leadership, and the juggle of carrying many responsibilities – while managing an abundant watery life.
Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Eksik bölüm mü var?
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We’re getting tangential. This episode is part of a three episode slip slide behind the scenes of a project that Dave’s been working on for the better part of 2024: The Electric Acid Surfboard test.
It's a series that explores “alternative” surfboard design. Basically, iconic surfers on left-field, experimental surf craft.Our very own aquatic wombat, renowned question repeater, one David Rastovich, is this year’s test pilot.
It's no secret: the stuff we use to go surfing is pretty toxic. Neoprene, wax, swimwear, surfboards. Most are petroleum products in one form or another. Most are built with planned obsolesce in mind.
So, what do we do about it?
Dave agreed to do the series with a catch: all the boards had to be wrapped in flax cloth instead of fiberglass; a prod to the makers and riders of surfboards that cleaner, or at least more durable, options for surfboard construction are already available.
Dave mostly signed on to the project because of its' mastermind: Danny Johnson. His skillful storytelling and brilliant editing, hilarious musical moments make the episodes fun to watch - even if you aren’t that into surfboards.Today we’re in conversation with Danny – he’s Head of Films at Stab, and has been writing, producing and directing for years with the best sense of humour in the surf space.
We recorded behind the scenes episodes with two other influential characters in the series: flax master Gary McNeill and Puerto Rican tube connoisseur Otto Flores.
You can watch the whole thing over at Stabmag.com
Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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When was the last time you followed a spark of curiosity all the way to some distant shoreline?
Kiana Weltzien's ocean adventures began in 2016 when she left her real estate career in Miami for a year of travel. Along the way, she met a mentor and moved onto his boat; a replica Polynesian double-canoe. She sensed that this was her new way of life.In 2018, Kiana acquired her own boat, Mara Noka, a modern Polynesian double-canoe. Despite her limited sailing knowledge, Kiana navigated challenging passages, often sailing alone to avoid the responsibility of others.
Kiana crossed the Atlantic to North Florida in late 2020, to begin her 14-month boatyard restoration of Mara Noka. In 2022, she captained the Women + the Wind North Atlantic crossing, her first voyage with a crew.After that, Kiana sailed through Madeira, the Canaries, and Cape Verde, aiming for Brazil. She completed a 43-day solo crossing from Santiago to Ilhabela.
We caught up with Kiana remotely from the cabin of her boat in Brazil (the audio is pretty dodgy at times).
She talked us through the making of her forthcoming documentary Women and the Wind, the work of life at sea, what drew her to Wharram craft and the challenge of addressing plastic pollution.Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Who modelled kindness for you? Who showed you how to be kind and curious in the face of difference?
Before he was a Fulbright Scholar, Jamie Brisick surfed on the ASP world tour from 1986 to 1991, and has since documented surf culture extensively.His writings and photographs have appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times, and The Guardian.
Jamie hosts the podcast Soundings and is the author of several books, including We Approach Our Martinis With Such High Expectations, and Becoming Westerly: The transformation of surfing champion Peter Drouyn into Westerly Windina – which Jamie adapted for the screen.
Jamie popped by after the World Premiere of his film The Life and Death of Westerly Windina at the Byron Bay International Film Festival -- where it took home top honours as Best Surf Film, as well as the festival’s highest recognition, Best Film.
The Life and Death of Westerly Windina explores Westerly’s upbringing, her years as a surfing titan, and follows her into a new chapter as she searches for acceptance from friends, family, a still-hyper masculine sport, and most importantly – from herself.
We were grateful to sit down with Jamie to chat about the film, the fire that took almost all his earthly possessions, where tech is taking surfing, and the folks in his life who modelled curiosity and compassion.
Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Longevity in any career begs for reinvention. With more than a decade at the pro surfing game, Josie Prendergast has been navigating new waters in her career - by taking the reins on her own storytelling.
Born in Siargao and raised in both Australia and the Philippines, Josie is a standout surfer on any craft – from 10+ gliders to fishes – and she’s expert at nasal navigation on heavy logs.We caught up with Josie for her first podcast experience between surfs in Byron – where she talked us through finding early commercial success in the surf industry, finding belonging between two cultures, surviving the Philippines Supertyphoon of 2021 and aiding her community to rebuild after the disaster.
Josie’s latest edit Expressions of Interest is out now. It’s a film she produced with local filmmaker Georde Grigor as a tribute to the simple pleasure of wave riding and the special moments shared with friends in the water.
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Did sailing have more to do with early human locomotion than the wheel? Hanneke Boon, head of James Wharram Designs, suggests that may be so.
Born in the Netherlands, Hanneke grew up in a sailing family. She was building and sailing Polynesian Catamarans at the age of fourteen and joined the James Wharram team at the age of 20.
A gifted artist / graphic designer / craftworker, she became James Wharram's co-designer. For half a century, all Wharram Designs have been marked with her signature.
According to Yachting World, “Despite this unique pencil stroke, she has remained in the shadow of Wharram’s mythology for 50 years. Since 1970, Boon has drawn the majority of the construction plans by hand. They’re works of art and the best way to imagine yourself aboard a Wharram. Without her, JW Designs would not be what it is.”Of the Polynesian double canoe inspired designs - once called ‘dangerous and eccentric,’ James Wharram said:
“A philosophic attitude behind the Wharram designs is that 'urban man' can, with a little financial saving and some handcraft work, create an object of beauty. This object of beauty can then, for a period of hours, days, weeks or months, carry him/her out of the urban world into a natural never-never land; the seas and oceans; to a time when the world was young; when Mankind was directly and intimately interacting with the beauty and power of nature. There are hundreds/thousands of Wharram builders or, as I prefer to call them, "Sea People", who have done or are now doing that!"Hanneke has built, or taken part in building, more than sixteen Wharram designs, including developing many prototypes and the 63ft Spirit of Gaia - and is an expert epoxy worker.
She talked us through the simple joys of life at sea, the central role that sailing has played in human evolution and the near death revelation that set her a new course.
Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Over the last half century, Bob McTavish has shaped thousands of custom surfboards.
Always an innovator in surfboard design and technology, Bob pioneered cutting edge changes to the basic concept of a surfboard.
In 1965, he started tinkering with rail and bottom design to maximise performance. This was part of the movement that would become known as the shortboard revolution, in which Bob’s role was pivotal, but only part of his ongoing contribution to the evolution of the surfboard.Now in his eighth decade, Bob continues to push the limits of surfboard design across the full range of wave-riding vehicles, including the shape that we focus on in this conversation – the 10 foot plus glider.
After 5 years dormant, Bob brought his objective surf contest concept - The McTavish Trim - to our local surf festival with three rules:
Rule #1 - Board must be 10ft+
Rule #2 - Furthest up the beach wins -- must hit the sand (paddle around the very wide buoy)
Rule #3 - Must stay on your feetSurfing is full of old men who calcify and only speak of the good 'ole days. Bob is not one of those guys -- he's still full of wonder and has made a career out of his wave riding curiosity.
We were lucky enough to sit down with Bob in front of a live audience at the 2024 Byron Bay Surf Festival in the parking lot of the McTavish factory - to talk all things glider, the surf/life balance, and how he has stayed perpetually stoked.Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Did you feel safe in your childhood home? If not, were you able to leave, or did you have to stay?
Ruby Southwell hit the road, travelling solo for years, searching for guidance. What she found was a deep and clear inner well - and a renewed love for riding waves.At age 22, Ruby moved to Indonesia’s remote Mentawai Islands, where she surf guided, taught herself how to tube ride, and lived offgrid with a local family for just over two years.
Ruby is known as a wildly talented navigator of weighty situations – both on land and in the water. Clips of her have been shared readily on social media – where you’ve probably seen her riding twinnes, pulling into big barrels, and displacing water in a distinctly feminine way.
When "Big Surfing" came knocking about sponsorship, Ruby took the deal, but she also took the reins. With her content budget, Ruby defied the norms and made a short film about the Mentawai’s pioneering female surfer Siska.
Parallel to wave riding, and now back in Australia, Ruby works to support at risk youth, with her sights on exploring the best of what her big island home has to offer.
She shares generously about the joys and adversities that have shaped and are shaping her path forward: the life changing joy of a magic board, travelling humbly, keeping an eye out for gurus in the Himalayas, and the only core surfer she's ever met.Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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What's the most challenging experience you've faced? Did it ultimately hinder or heighten your self-clarity?
Brett Burcher is a heavy water specialist - a slab hunter who chases the thickest waves to some of the most far flung locations. He was given an irrevocable invitation to learn to lay down, be still and breathe when he hit the reef and suffered a spinal cord injury in remote South Australia.
We wanted to talk story with Brett not only for his crazy stories of stretching the edges of his genre of wave riding, but also because he’s transformed the intense things that have happened to him into meaningful action to help others.
Brett is a former professional surfer, turned primary school teacher, who now shares his experientially honed breathwork skills through retreats and workshops.
Brett also works as a disability support worker. He was recently in town to support surfer Cliffo Gralton — who competed at the Adaptive Surfing World Tour event held in Byron in March 2024.
We caught up with Brett between heats to talk about facing insomnia, training the "Sunset special" and getting into flow.
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In this episode we also hear briefly from 5x ISA Para Surfing World Champion Victoria Feige who is campaigning for the inclusion of Para Surfing at the 2028 Olympics. She's looking to gather 25,000 signatures - Sign on to support her efforts here.Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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You can stream every Waterpeople episode from your desk. -
As a follow up to our episode with heavy water specialist Brett Burcher we wanted to share a couple of breathwork practices that Brett found most practical in his own life - whether he’s dealing with insomnia, or about to drop into a bomb set wave.
This is a levelling breath practice— not an upper or downer -- just a way to reconnect with a gentle balanced breath state.
Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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You can stream every Waterpeople episode from your desk. -
In this bonus episode slab hunter Brett Burcher takes us through an energising breath practice that he’s found useful when you need a little extra pep in your step.
This is your reminder: breathe like you mean it.Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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You'll get water-centric reading and listening recommendations, questions worth asking, and ways to take action for the wellbeing of Planet Ocean delivered straight to your inbox.
You can stream every Waterpeople episode from your desk. -
“Whether or not you think you belong to the Earth is irrelevant, for you simply do. By virtue of breathing in you receive a gift of oxygen given by the tree and soil, by virtue of breathing out you gift carbon dioxide to the kelp so the fish may have their home. To accept our shared responsibility to the Earth, IS to remember our belonging.” – Nidala Barker
Nidala is a surfer, musician and custodianship educator. She traces part of her ancestral roots to the Djugun and Jabirr-Jabirr people of the Kimberley in Australia’s North West, where she was initiated in lore and story.
Nidala holds a Masters Degree in Sustainability, in addition to degrees in Public Policy and Social Justice Law. In 2021, she released a carbon neutral EP named ‘Colours of my People.’ and sits on the board of Green Music Australia and The Returning Indigenous Corporation.
Through her music and custodianship workshops, Nidala blends Indigenous wisdom with innovative scientific perspectives to remind us of our belonging to this world. Her work invites us to step bravely into our shared responsibility to protect country.
Nidala talks us through the near drowning that saved her, how to acknowledge country meaningfully - and why, building a tiny home from waste, and what it means to step into custodianship.Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Why are some octogenarians still surfing, while others struggle to walk up the stairs? It isn’t luck.
Harvard and Stanford trained Orthopaedic surgeon Kevin R. Stone, MD, believes that injuries present as opportunities to better our athletic potential - they can make us fitter, faster, and stronger than before. He is the author of Play Forever: How to Recover From Injury and Thrive.
Dr. Kevin Stone is a waterman and a world-renowned expert in biologic joint replacement. He founded The Stone Clinic and is Chairman of the Stone Research Foundation.
Dr. Stone has served the US Ski Team, the US Pro Ski Tour, the Marin Ballet, the Smuin Ballet, the Modern Pentathlon at the US Olympic Festival, and the US Olympic Training Center. His innovative work in the orthopaedic arena has led to multiple awards, publications, and grants and has resulted in approximately fifty issued US patents.
Dr. Stone talks us through a recent injury, the vulnerabilities of a surfing body, new paradigms of ageing, the remarkable regenerative capacity of our bodies, and why play should be part of every day.Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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How to fund a pro surfing career in the 1980s? Sell stickers, Levi’s jeans, bicycles, whatever. Sleep in your board bag. Live on a diet of mushrooms and bread. World Champion Pauline Menczer got resourceful and hustled however it took to get her to the next stop of the tour.
“In the 80s and 90s, surf culture was toxic, especially towards women. Pauline was a dirt-poor, chronically ill teen from Bondi, who defied insults and intimidation to make a name for herself in the surfing world.
When Pauline's determination propelled her onto the pro tour, her battle for acceptance and equality didn't end there. The endemic sexism of the industry meant prize money for women was a pittance, while sponsors ignored her because she was gay and didn't have the stereotypical surfer girl look that male marketing managers were after. Despite these challenges, Pauline became the 1993 World Champion and played a key role in bringing greater equality to the sport.
Pauline recently penned a memoir called Surf Like a Woman. Through it we see clearly the unfairness of a sexist surf industry, and the rise of a modern surf shero who won the world title — and has made a life of sharing the gifts of a surfing despite physical, emotional and financial adversities.
Send us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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When is surfing about more than just selfish wave hoggery?
Mozambique’s first professional surfer, Sung Min Cho, or ‘Mini’ for short, is writing a new story for surfing – he’s part of a burgeoning surf culture rising from the wake of three decades of armed conflict in the region.
In 2018, Mini co-counded Tofo surf club, Mozambique’s outpost of Surfers Not Street Children, which empowers street kids through surf coaching and mentorship. The effort has been funded in part by Pope Francis.
Mini is on a mission to earn representation for his country in the Olympics — and spoke to us passionately about his love of surfing – not just for himself, but as a tool to lift up others, especially kids -- and as a lens for Mozambiqucans to write and tell their own stories in their own words. Stories about a nation brimming with natural beauty, resilient people and very good surf.
photo credit: Alan Van GysenSend us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
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Ever want to pack up normalcy and set sail over the horizon? What’s it really like to live at sea for a year and rarely be further than 35 feet from your new significant other?
Torren Martyn and Aiyana Powell talk us through the peaks and troughs of life aboard Calypte, a borrowed 35-foot sailing boat that they spent 12 months sailing 9,000-kilometres - from Pattaya in the Gulf of Thailand to Lombok, an Indonesian island east of Bali - a journey chronicled in their new independent film Calypte.
With little practical sailing experience, Torren and Aiyana learned as they went – how to be fisherfolk, navigators, meteorologists, and mechanics to take care of running repairs — and still found plenty of surf along the way.
Torren and Aiyana talk us through the happenstance of meeting, their time aboard Calypte – the trials of trust and communication at sea— and their newest adventure – starting a family together.
Photo credit: Ishka FolkwellSend us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
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The loudest human-made sounds: Nuclear Bomb (224 dB), Rocket launch (204 dB). And clocking in at 260 underwater decibels is the seismic blast, part of a process for exploring for oil and gas in the ocean. Unlike bombs and rockets, however, seismic blasts "fire approximately every 10 seconds around the clock for months at a time."
For eight years, Marine Biologist Annie Ford worked onboard seismic blasting vessels, and felt the relentless explosions and reverberations from her bed at night. She has since peddled away from the fossil fuel industry and become one of its most creative whistleblowers.
Annie is a mountain biking world record holder and has spent time surfing and sailing around the world, including multiple expeditions to Antarctica.
Today, Annie is the National Campaign Manager for the Surfrider Foundation Australia, where she is currently working to halt the largest marine seismic blasting project ever proposed. It is slated to take place off the coast of her home island of Lutruwita (Tasmania) – and will emit some of the loudest human made noises ever created – to the detriment of an entire ecosystem.We caught up with Annie as she completed a 4,000 km bike ride (that about 2,500 miles) to talk about endurance, optimism, changing careers, and her entwined commitment to kindness, climate action and adventure.
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To get a download of the seismic blasting audio file to share at your community event, school, or tense family gathering, please send us an email: [email protected]
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound Engineer: Ben Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Dave & Ben
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Photo Credit: Rod DrurySend us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
Join the conversation: @Waterpeoplepodcast...
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Are you investing in yourself and your curiosities? At 63, Sally Parkin sold her home to spend the better part of 2023 surfing in Australia with her family.
Sally is known for "single handedly" reviving the 100 year old tradition of English surfing on wooden bodyboards. She first surfed one at age 5, and decades later, when her family's quiver started to break, she realised there was only one local maker of traditional boards remaining.
She founded The Original Surfboard Company to both produce timber boards and to recover the lost art of English prone surfing.
Joined by surf historian and shaper extraordinaire Tom Wegener, we met up with Sally on her tour of Australia, and she talked us through the logistics of reviving a nearly-lost art, researching the great novelist Agatha Christie's surfing adventures, and the joys of adaptive bottom contours.
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Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Dave & Ben
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Photo Credit: Celia GalpinSend us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
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Injuries are mostly out of our control. But recovery offers many choices. Will we allow the scar tissue to stiffen or soften us?
Stu Nettle is the editor of Swellnet, one of Australia's leading independent surf media and forecasting sites, where he has written about board design, surf industry happenings, surf science, and coastal geology since 2008.
Stu is a lifelong surfer but late-comer to surf media. He “had many unrelated life chapters, business failures, social experiments, and surf adventures before he ever got a word published.”We first encountered Stu’s work amongst the lively pages of Kurangabaa, an academic – leaning surf journal he helped to found and run in the early 2000s. It was a trove of thoughtful essays, along with poetry, fiction and interviews – and part of a larger, exciting, indepedent DIY surf culture of that time.
We wanted to know: what kind of life has shaped the voice and perspective of one of Australia's most prolific surf journalists?
Stu talks us through the Sunset Beach hold down that changed him, the value of knowing our history, gender politics at Swellnet and the the future(s) of surf media.…
Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound Engineer: Ben Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Dave & Ben
Join the conversation: @WaterpeoplepodcastSend us a text
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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave RastovichSound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander
Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll
Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander
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