Episoder
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The core conflict in our politics right now is over institutions. Democrats defend them, while Republicans distrust them, and seek, in some cases, to eliminate them.
This is really bad. Itâs bad for institutions when Republicans are elected, because of the damage they might inflict. And itâs bad for institutions when Democrats are elected, because when youâre so committed to protecting something, itâs hard to be clear-eyed or honest about all the ways itâs failing. And when Democrats wonât admit to the problems that so many Americans can see and feel, that creates a huge opening for the right. So, what are Democrats missing?
Steven Teles is a political scientist and director of the Center for Economy and Society at Johns Hopkins, and a senior fellow at the Niskanen Center. Jennifer Pahlka is the founder of Code for America and the author of one of my favorite books on why government doesnât deliver, âRecoding America: Why Government is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better.â Sheâs also a senior fellow at Niskanen.
In this conversation, we discuss how and why the country has become polarized over institutions; the ways this was supercharged during the pandemic; the reasons government agencies are so focused on process, often at the expense of outcomes; how a second Trump administration will probably distract from some much needed institutional reforms; and more.
This episode contains strong language.
Recommendations:
âVoice and Inequality: The Transformation of American Civic Democracyâ by Theda Skocpol
âInfrastructure Costsâ by Leah Brooks and Zachary D. Liscow
Why Nothing Works by Marc Dunkelman
The Unaccountability Machine by Dan Davies
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Iâve been watching since the election to see what timeline weâre in. And Donald Trumpâs first wave of selections for appointees were pretty straightforward. But then came the turn: Pete Hegseth, a former âFox & Friendsâ host, to helm the Pentagon; Tulsi Gabbard for director of national intelligence; and the real gut-punch, the former representative Matt Gaetz for attorney general.
In the parts of government that can be weaponized most dangerously â the military, the intelligence services, the Department of Justice â Trump is putting true lackeys and loyalists in charge. I fear weâve entered the bad timeline.
Anne Applebaum is a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian, a staff writer at The Atlantic, and the author of a new book, âAutocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World.â In this conversation, we discuss how sheâs been processing Trumpâs picks, what to make of Elon Muskâs role in Trumpâs inner circle, the indicators to look out for when governments slide in an autocratic direction, the appeal and excitement of autocratic regimes that often get missed in our history books, the relationship between autocracies and futurists, the politics of performance and more.
Mentioned:
Join our team as a story editor
Book Recommendations:
Moneyland by Oliver Bullough
Offshore by Brooke Harrington
American Kleptocracy by Casey Michel
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Manglende episoder?
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The Democratic Party has been hemorrhaging nonwhite and working-class voters. There are a lot of theories about why that has been happening, blaming it on the partyâs ideas or messaging or campaign tactics. But I think the problem might be deeper than that â rooted in the structure of the Democratic Party itself.
Michael Lind is a columnist at Tablet magazine, a co-founder of New America and the author of âThe New Class War: Saving Democracy From the Managerial Elite.â He argues that the Democratic Party in recent years has become more beholden to special-interest nonprofits, which claim to represent large constituencies but actually reflect the interests of the donor class. In this conversation, we discuss why he thinks the nonprofit complex became so powerful, how that might have led to a disconnect between the Democratic Party and its core voter base and what he thinks Democrats could do to course correct.
Book Recommendations:
Where Have All the Democrats Gone? by John B. Judis and Ruy Teixeira
Tyranny, Inc. by Sohrab Ahmari
Mother Jones by Elliot J. Gorn
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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To understand the 2024 election results, it helps to go back to 2020. Donald Trump lost the election that year, but he made significant gains with nonwhite voters. At the time, a lot of Democrats saw that as a fluke, a hangover from Covid lockdown policies. But the Republican pollster Patrick Ruffini saw it as bellwether.
In his 2023 book, âParty of the People: Inside the Multiracial Populist Coalition Remaking the GOP,â Ruffini argued that Trump was ushering in a party realignment. A trend that had been happening for years in the white electorate â college-educated voters moving to the left, and non-college-educated ones moving to the right â was now evident, he said, among voters of all races, breaking up the core of the Democratic base.
And so far, the data we have from this election suggests that Ruffini was right.
In this conversation, Ruffini, a founding partner at Echelon Insights, contextualizes the 2024 election results by looking back at 2020âs. We discuss what Democrats missed about these voter trends; the appeal of Trumpâs brand of class politics; why Democrats might have been better off with a red wave in the 2022 midterms; and how Kamala Harrisâs campaign may have hurt her with nonwhite working-class voters.
Book Recommendations:
Steadfast Democrats by Ismail K. White and Chryl N. Laird
The Real Majority by Richard Scammon and Ben Wattenberg
The New Americans by Michael Barone
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker, Jack McCordick and Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The coalition the Democratic Party built in the Obama years has crumbled. But Democrats can choose how to respond.
Mentioned:
âDemocrats Have a Better Option Than Bidenâ
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Jack McCordick and Kristin Lin. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Elias Isquith. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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In 2010, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert held a satirical rally on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., called the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear. This was amid the Tea Party movement. Political emotions were running high. And Stewart ended the rally with a speech slamming the media for stoking the countryâs divisions.
âBut we live now in hard times, not end times,â he said. âAnd we can have animus and not be enemies. But unfortunately, one of our main tools in delineating the two broke.â
That rally has a Rosetta Stone quality to it now. Because what Stewart was describing has only gotten worse. Our divisions feel deeper and more dangerous.
So as we enter election week, I wanted to have a conversation with Stewart about some of the arcs he has traced in American politics since he first hosted âThe Daily Showâ in 1999. We discuss how the media has become increasingly segmented and polarized in the past 25 years, how that has affected politics, how he understands Tucker Carlsonâs political transformation and whether his own politics have changed.
Note: The Washington Post is one of several news organizations mentioned in this conversation. We taped this interview before the recent controversy at the Washington Post over ending its practice of presidential endorsements -- a decision made by the paper's owner, Jeff Bezos.
This episode contains strong language.
Book Recommendations:
I Shouldnât Be Telling You This (But Iâm Going to Anyway) by Chelsea Devantez
The works of Kurt Vonnegut (Breakfast of Champions, Player Piano, Catâs Cradle, Slaughterhouse-Five, God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater, etc.)
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Our politics are increasingly divided on fundamental issues like the legitimacy of elections and the nature and integrity of the basic systems of American government. Thatâs the most important fact of this election. But strange new zones of agreement have been emerging, too â on China, outsourcing and health care. What should we make of that?
In his book âThe Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Orderâ the historian Gary Gerstle describes these shifts in consensus in terms of political orders â these eras that stretch for decades, when both parties come to accept a certain set of ideas. In this conversation he walks me through the political, economic and social factors that shaped two political orders in the last century: the New Deal order and the neoliberal order. And we apply this lens to whatâs happening in our politics right now.
It may seem strange to take a step back in time right before the election. But I think Gerstleâs framework helps uncover an overlooked dimension of the 2024 race and where politics might go next.
Book Recommendations:
The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory by Tim Alberta
Underground Asia by Tim Harper
The Known Citizen by Sarah E. Igo
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Michelle Harris and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Vivek Ramaswamy burst onto the national scene last year as a wild card candidate for the Republican presidential nomination. Here was a relatively unknown biotech executive with no political experience, pitching himself as someone who could carry on Donald Trumpâs movement. Trump ultimately won that primary contest handily, but Ramaswamy was a breakout star. There was even chatter that he might be Trumpâs V.P. pick.
Trump, of course, ended up choosing JD Vance â Ramaswamyâs friend and former classmate â who has a very different vision for the future of Trumpism. But Ramaswamy believes the future of the Trump movement is still up for grabs and is fighting hard for his camp to win out over the one that Vance represents, including in his new book, âTruths: The Future of America First.â
In this conversation, we discuss the two competing visions that Ramaswamy sees as lurking beneath the surface of Trumpism, what he calls ânational protectionistâ and ânational libertarian,â whether his vision is really so different from Paul Ryan-style conservativism, why he thinks these debates within the Republican Party are really deep down about identity and what it means to be an American.
Book Recommendations:
The Constitution of Liberty by Friedrich Hayek
The Bhagavad Gita
The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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This week I published an audio essay about what I think is unique about Donald Trump as a personality and political figure and the dangers he poses if he gets a second term in the White House. But I wanted to go deeper on this topic with someone who knows him much better than I do.
Maggie Haberman is a senior political correspondent for The New York Times and has traced his evolution over the decades in her 2022 book, âConfidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America.â
In this conversation, we discuss what Haberman agreed and disagreed with in my essay, the forces that shaped Trumpâs ideas of politics and power as a real estate developer in New York City, what she thinks he wants from a second term (including his desire for revenge), how his inner circle has changed since his time in office, what he might do if he loses and more.
Note: This conversation was taped before Trumpâs former chief of staff John Kelly went on the record saying that Trump meets the definition of a fascist and confirming that the former president made admiring statements about Hitler.
Mentioned:
âWhatâs Wrong With Donald Trump?â by Ezra Klein
âTrumpâs Speeches, Increasingly Angry and Rambling, Reignite the Question of Ageâ by Peter Baker and Dylan Freedman
âTrump Leans On Creative Bookkeeping to Keep Up in Cash Raceâ by Shane Goldmacher and Maggie Haberman
Book Recommendations:
Kamalaâs Way by Dan Morain
Romney by McKay Coppins
American Carnage by Tim Alberta
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ is produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jack McCordick.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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I think thereâs an answer. But itâs not age â or, at least, itâs not just age.
Mentioned:
âWhite House aides lean on delays and distraction to manage Trumpâ by Josh Dawsey
âI Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administrationâ by Miles Taylor
âWhat JD Vance Believesâ by Ross Douthat
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This audio essay for âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Jack McCordick. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Crime data has been a flashpoint in this election. Kamala Harris has claimed that violent crime is at a ânear 50-year low,â while Donald Trump has insisted that crime is going up. According to the numbers reported to the F.B.I., Harris is right: Crime, especially violent crime, has been falling. But if you look at survey data, Trump is tapping into something people feel. Last year, 77 percent of Americans told Gallup that they believe crime is on the rise.
So whatâs going on here? Why, if crime is falling, do people feel less safe?
Charles Fain Lehman, a crime and drug policy researcher at the Manhattan Institute, wrote a piece on his Substack, The Causal Fallacy, on exactly this question. In this conversation, we discuss why he thinks Americans are feeling less safe, despite what the data says, as well as the ideological shifts taking place around drugs and crime, on both the left and the right.
Mentioned:
âBreakdownâ by Heather Mac Donald
âBetween Tolerant Containment and Concerted Constraint: Managing Madness for the City and the Privileged Familyâ by Neil Gong
Book Recommendations:
Thinking About Crime by James Q. Wilson
Against Excess by Mark Kleiman
The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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As of this week, the archive of this show is behind a paywall. The three most recent episodes are free, but earlier episodes are available only to New York Times subscribers. If you donât want the whole subscription, thereâs an audio-only subscription for $1.50 a week. That gets you access to our archives, as well as the archives of all the other great Times podcasts.
To help make the pitch here, I wanted to share an episode from our friends at the âBook Reviewâ podcast. Itâs hosted by Gilbert Cruz, the editor of The Timesâs Book Review section. And I thought you might enjoy this particular episode with Robert Caro about his book âThe Power Broker.â It came out 50 years ago, and itâs still one of the most influential books in politics and policy circles â for better or for worse. In this conversation they dig into why that is and what to make of the bookâs legacy. I hope you enjoy it.
To learn more about the subscription, visit nytimes.com/podcasts.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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In his new book of essays, âThe Message,â Ta-Nehisi Coates writes about a trip he took to Israel and the West Bank in May 2023. âI felt lied to,â he told me. âI felt lied to by my craft. I felt lied to by major media organizations.â
Coatesâs essay is a searing portrait of Palestinian life under Israeli rule. It has also been criticized for leaving much out: Hamas is never mentioned. Nor is Oct. 7. Nor are any of the peace processes. So I asked him on the show to discuss what he saw when he was there and what he chose to leave outside the frame.
Mentioned:
âThe Case for Reparationsâ by Ta-Nehisi Coates
The Necessity of Exile by Shaul Magid
The Virtue of Nationalism by Yoram Hazony
âUS media talks a lot about Palestinians â just without Palestiniansâ by Maha Nassar
Book Recommendations:
Justice for Some by Noura Erakat
Our American Israel by Amy Kaplan
The Unspoken Alliance by Sasha Polakow-Suransky
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Efim Shapiro and Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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On Oct. 6 of last year, the Biden administration was hammering out a grand Middle East bargain in which Saudi Arabia would normalize relations with Israel in exchange for a Palestinian state. And even after Hamasâs attack the following day, the U.S. hoped to keep that deal alive to preserve the conditions for some kind of durable peace.
But that deal is now basically unviable. The war is expanding. Israel may be on the verge of occupying Gaza indefinitely and possibly southern Lebanon, too. So why was President Biden ineffective at achieving his goals? In the past year, has the U.S. been able to shape this conflict at all?
Franklin Foer recently wrote a piece in The Atlantic trying to answer these questions. And he starts with the Biden administrationâs attempts to de-escalate tensions in the Middle East â an effort that began well before Oct. 7. In this conversation, Foer walks through his reporting inside the diplomatic bubble of the conflict and the administrations of other Middle Eastern states that have serious stakes in Israelâs war in Gaza.
Book Recommendations:
Our Man by George Packer
See Under by David Grossman
Collected Poems by Rita Dove
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair . Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro, Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Emma Ashford, Shira Efron, Natasha Hall, Richard Haass, Michael Koplow, Selcuk Karaoglan and Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The economy has hit a hinge moment. For the past few years, inflation has been the big economic story â the fixation of economic policymakers, journalists and almost everyone who goes to the grocery store. But economists now largely see inflation as tamed. Itâs still a major political issue; the country continues to reel from years of rising prices, and there is a real affordability crisis. But that isnât all the next administration will have to deal with. So what does it mean to fight the next economic war rather than the last one?
Jason Furman is an economics professor at Harvard and a former chair of the Council of Economic Advisers under Barack Obama. Furman has closely tracked the inflation crisis over the past few years, and heâs deeply knowledgeable about how economic policy is made.
In this conversation, we discuss why the inflation crisis upended the expectations of so many economists and what weâve learned for the next time inflation strikes, what he expects to see with mortgage rates and the housing market, the upcoming fight over Donald Trumpâs expiring tax cuts, the good and the bad in Kamala Harrisâs housing policy and why there seems to be so little concern from either party about the ever-growing U.S. debt.
Mentioned:
âThe Economic Theory Behind JD Vanceâs Populismâ with Oren Cass on The Ezra Klein Show
âTrumpâs Most Misunderstood Policy Proposalâ by Oren Cass
âIn Defense of the Dismal Scienceâ by Jason Furman
Book Recommendations:
How the World Became Rich by Mark Koyama and Jared Rubin
The Goodness Paradox by Richard Wrangham
The Ladiesâ Paradise by Ămile Zola
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones, Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Tyler Cowen, Veronique de Rugy, Desmond Lachman, Lindsay Owens, Nathan Tankus, Isabella Weber and Sonia Herrero.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The most consequential and revealing exchange during the vice-presidential debate on Tuesday came toward the end, when JD Vance was asked whether he would seek to challenge this yearâs election results. That one moment proved that he canât be trusted with the office he seeks.
But the 85 minutes preceding that moment had a lot of interesting policy discussion, so we couldnât resist talking about that, too.
This episode contains strong language.
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our senior editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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In a couple weeks, the archives of our show will only be available to subscribers. Hereâs why thatâs happening and what to expect.
To learn more, go to nytimes.com/podcasts.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Iâve been fascinated by the problem Donald Trump faces with Project 2025. Trump has been caught in an awkward position, disavowing the document itself, but unable to fully disavow the people behind it. So I wanted to do an episode not just on Trump, but on the unwieldy coalition that has formed around him â what is sometimes referred to as the âNew Right.â
Emily Jashinsky is the D.C. correspondent and host of âUndercurrentsâ for UnHerd, a co-host of âCounter Pointsâ with Ryan Grim, and a former editor at The Federalist, one of the most influential sites among conservatives today. Sheâs described herself as someone with âa foot in both campsâ of the âOld Rightâ and the âNew Right.â So I thought sheâd be a great guide to understanding how the conservative movement has changed.
In this conversation, we discuss the key differences between the Old Right and the New Right; what the New Right wants; why New Right thinkers are so interested in the concepts of âmodernityâ and âvirtueâ; and what influence the New Right might have in a second Trump administration.
Mentioned:
The Virtue of Nationalism by Yoram Hazony
Book Recommendations:
Primal Screams by Mary Eberstadt
The Devilâs Chessboard by David Talbot
The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Efim Shapiro.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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America has become increasingly polarized when it comes to trust. Voters who distrust the system â who see institutions as corrupt and are prone to conspiracy theories â have long existed on the far left and far right. But Donald Trump seems to have sparked a realignment, what the writer Matthew Yglesias calls âthe crank realignment.â The G.O.P. is now the political home of the distrustful, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.âs Trump endorsement was a clear sign of these changing times.
In 2020, Pete Buttigieg wrote a book on trust in politics. And heâs been persistent in making the case â in speeches, on TV â for what he calls âa better kind of politics.â So I wanted to talk to him about his theory of politics. Why does he think so many Americans have lost trust in the government? What responsibility does the Democratic Party have here? And how does he believe trust can be restored?
Note: I invited Buttigieg on the show in his personal capacity so we could discuss his thoughts on the election without violating the Hatch Act, which prohibits members of the government from campaigning in their official guise. This also means I wasn't able to ask Buttigieg many questions about his work as transportation secretary. But I think we still had a pretty fascinating conversation.
Book Recommendations:
Morning and Evening by Jon Fosse
The Future Is History by Masha Gessen
Mr. Churchill in the White House by Robert Schmuhl
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jonah Kessel, Elliot DeBruyn and Selcuk Karaoglan.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Itâs been almost a year since Oct. 7. More than 40,000 Palestinians in Gaza are dead. The hostages are not all home, and it doesnât look like there will be a cease-fire deal that brings them home anytime soon. Israeli politics is deeply divided, and the countryâs international reputation is in tatters. The Palestinian Authority is weak. A war may break out in Lebanon soon. There is no vision for the day after and no theory of what comes next.
So I wanted to talk to David Remnick, the editor of The New Yorker. Remnick has been reporting from Israel for decades and has a deep familiarity and history with both the region and the politics and the people who are driving it. He first profiled Benjamin Netanyahu back in 1998. In 2013, he profiled Naftali Bennett, the politician leading Netanyahu in polls of who Israelis think is best suited to be prime minister. And he recently profiled Yahya Sinwar, the head of Hamas in Gaza.
In this conversation, we talk about what Remnick learned profiling Netanyahu, Bennett and Sinwar, as well as where Israelâs overlapping conflicts with Hamas, the Palestinian Authority, Hezbollah and Iran sit after nearly a year of war. Remnick and I were both recently in Israel and the West Bank, as well as near Israelâs border with Lebanon, and we discuss our impressions from those trips.
Mentioned:
âNotes from Undergroundâ by David Remnick
âThe Party Faithfulâ by David Remnick
âThe Outsiderâ by David Remnick
The Bibi Files
Book Recommendations:
Hope Against Hope by Nadezhda Mandelstam
These Truths by Jill Lepore
Cosmopolitanism by Kwame Anthony Appiah
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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