Episodes
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Trump has been making some foreign policy moves I didnât entirely expect. He seems determined to get a nuclear deal with Iran. Heâs been public about his disagreements with Benjamin Netanyahu. He called Vladimir Putin âcrazy.â And he keeps talking about wanting his legacy to be that of a peacemaker.
So what, at this point, can we say about Trumpâs foreign policy? What is he trying to do, and how well is it working? If he succeeds, what might his legacy be?
Emma Ashford is a senior fellow at the Stimson Center, a foreign policy think tank, and the author of the forthcoming book âFirst Among Equals.â She comes from a school of thought thatâs more sympathetic to the âAmerica Firstâ agenda than I typically am. But sheâs also cleareyed about what is and isnât working and the ways that Trump is an idiosyncratic foreign policy maker who isnât always following an âAmerica Firstâ agenda himself.
Book Recommendations:
A Superpower Transformed by Daniel Sargent
The Strategy of Denial by Elbridge ColbyA World Safe for Commerce by Dale Copeland
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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This is a bit of a strange episode. Itâs an attempt to explore the difficulty of everything weâre supposed to feel in a day. Weâre in a time when to open the news is to expose yourself to horrors â ones that are a world away, others that are growing ever closer, or perhaps have already made landfall in our lives. And then many of us look up from our screens into a normal spring day. What do you do with that?
But thatâs not new or exceptional. Itâs the human condition. It exists for all of us, and it always has: life intermingling with death, grief coexisting with joy. Kathryn Schulzâs memoir, âLost & Found,â is all about this experience â the core of her book isnât losing a parent or finding a life partner. Itâs the âandâ that connects them both. How do we hold all that we have to hold, all at once? How do we not feel overwhelmed, or emotionally numbed?
I found this to be a beautiful conversation. But itâs also a conversation â particularly at the beginning â about loss and grief. That was the part that felt truest to me, and so I hope noting it doesnât warn you off. But I wanted to note it.Book Recommendations:
A Place of Greater Safety by Hilary Mantel
Spent by Alison Bechdel
Who Is Government? Edited by Michael Lewis
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to the Talbot County Free Library.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Steve Bannon famously talked about using âmuzzle velocityâ as a strategy: doing so much so quickly that you overwhelm the ability of the media to cover it. I think what the Trump family is doing with crypto is muzzle velocity for corruption.
What theyâre doing isnât necessarily illegal. It would be if these were official campaign donations; the sums involved are so large, and the buyers include foreign nationals. But the Trump family is making this money personally. And theyâre doing it across so many different crypto ventures, itâs almost impossible to keep track.
So thatâs what I wanted to do with this episode: try to track at least some of it.
The person Iâve enlisted to help me out is Zeke Faux. Heâs the author of the fantastic book âNumber Go Up: Inside Cryptoâs Wild Rise and Staggering Fallâ and an investigative reporter at Bloomberg, where heâs been covering many of these strange Trump family crypto schemes.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âTrump Crypto Venture Has Talked to Binance About Doing Businessâ by Zeke Faux
Book Recommendations:
A Distant Mirror by Barbara W. Tuchman
Nixonland by Rick Perlstein
Gretel and the Great War by Adam Sachs
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Richard Painter.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Trumpâs âbig, beautiful billâ is the cruelest and most irresponsible piece of domestic legislation to be seriously proposed in my lifetime.
When you think about this bill, you should think about risk. It would increase our risk of a fiscal crisis by adding a hefty sum to our nationâs debt, at a time when weâre alienating the countries that typically buy our debt. It would slash food stamps and strip health insurance from millions of people, increasing the risk that the safety net wonât be able to catch any of us, at a time when President Trumpâs tariffs have increased the risk of a recession.
Itâs what Iâm calling the Big Budget Bomb. And if it passes, weâll all be in the blast radius.
My guest today is Catherine Rampell. Sheâs an opinion columnist at The Washington Post and an anchor on MSNBC. Sheâs been covering this closely, so I asked her to come on the show to help talk through all the different risks this bill brings.
Editorâs note: This episode was recorded before the House passed Trumpâs domestic policy package.
Mentioned:
âArkansasâs Medicaid experiment has proved disastrousâ by Catherine Rampell
âThe Time Taxâ by Annie Lowrey
âBarbara Kingsolver Thinks Urban Liberals Have It All Wrong on Appalachiaâ by The Ezra Klein Show
Book Recommendations:
Our Dollar, Your Problem by Ken Rogoff
Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
Shy by Mary Rodgers and Jesse Green
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Tyson Brody.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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This episode is about a seemingly simple question: Was there a Joe Biden cover-up?
Jake Tapper and Alex Thompsonâs new book argues there was. âOriginal Sin: President Bidenâs Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Againâ details how Bidenâs top advisers closed the circle around him and tried to conceal the extent of his decline.
But I think the story here is more complicated. If Bidenâs top advisers were misleading the public, I think they were also lying to themselves. And if there was a cover-up, it had a lot of holes; voters had been telling pollsters they were worried about Bidenâs age for years.
So I wanted to have Tapper on the show to talk about the discoveries in his book, but also about some of the bigger questions raised by the Democratic Partyâs decision to almost renominate Biden: How do you see what is right in front of your eyes? How do you avoid letting loyalty to a person or a party blind you?
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âDemocrats Have a Better Option Than Bidenâ by Ezra Klein
âBehind Closed Doors, Biden Shows Signs of Slippingâ by Annie Linskey and Siobhan Hughes
Book Recommendations:
Lorne by Susan Morrison
Hitlerâs People by Richard Evans
The Holy Roller by Andy Samberg, Joe Trohman and Rick Remender
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kelsey Kudak. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Is Donald Trump eroding American democracy and consolidating power for himself? Or is he trying to do that and failing? Is this what sliding toward authoritarianism looks like? Or is this what a functioning democracy looks like? And how can you tell the difference?
Two articles came out recently that offer very different perspectives on these questions. In Vox, Zack Beauchamp wrote a piece called âTrump Is Losing,â which argues that Trumpâs efforts to cow his enemies and consolidate power are not organized or strategic enough to make a serious dent in our democratic system. In The New Yorker, Andrew Marantz published a piece that he reported in Hungary, about how life in a modern authoritarian regime doesnât look and feel like you might expect: âYou can live through the big one, it turns out, and still go on acting as if â still go on feeling as if â the big one is not yet here,â he writes.
So I invited both Beauchamp and Marantz on the show to debate these big questions: What timeline are we on? What signs are they looking at? If weâve crossed the line into authoritarianism, how would we know? Is Trump losing? Or is it possible heâs already won?
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
How Democracies Die by Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt
âThe Path to American Authoritarianismâ by Steven Levitsky and Lucan A. Way
âHow Will We Know When We Have Lost Our Democracy?â by Steven LevitskyLucan Way and Daniel Ziblatt
âDonât Believe Himâ by Ezra Klein
âThe Emergency Is Hereâ by Ezra Klein
Democracy May Not Exist But Weâll Miss It When Itâs Gone by Astra Taylor
Recommendations
Political Liberalism by John Rawls
Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arendt
A World After Liberalism by Matthew Rose
Melting Point by Rachel Cockerell
Iâm Still Here (film)
The Constitutional Bind by Aziz Rana
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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I honestly donât know how I should be educating my kids. A.I. has raised a lot of questions for schools. Teachers have had to adapt to the most ingenious cheating technology ever devised. But for me, the deeper question is: What should schools be teaching at all? A.I. is going to make the future look very different. How do you prepare kids for a world you canât predict?
And if we can offload more and more tasks to generative A.I., whatâs left for the human mind to do?
Rebecca Winthrop is the director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution. She is also an author, with Jenny Anderson, of âThe Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better.â We discuss how A.I. is transforming what it means to work and be educated, and how our use of A.I. could revive â or undermine â American schools.
Mentioned:
Brookings Global Task Force on AI Education
Winthropâs World of Education
Book Recommendations:
Democracy and Education by John Dewey
Unwired by Gaia Bernstein
Blueprint for Revolution by Srdja Popovic
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Alexander Gil Fuentes and Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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A good rule of thumb is that whatever Margaret Atwood is worried about now, the rest of us will likely be worried about a decade from now. The rise of authoritarianism. A backlash against womenâs social progress. Climate change leading to social unrest. Advertising permeating more and more of our lives.
We originally released this episode back in March 2022. But just like Atwoodâs work, it somehow only got more relevant with time.
Atwood is the author of at least 17 novels, including the classic âThe Handmaidâs Tale,â as well as 20 books of poetry and nine collections of short fiction. When we spoke, sheâd just published an essay collection, âBurning Questions.â And she has a new book coming out this fall, âBook of Lives: A Memoir of Sorts.â
Mentioned:
Art & Energy by Barry Lord
Book recommendations:
War by Margaret MacMillan
Biased by Jennifer L. Eberhardt
Secrets of the Sprakkar by Eliza Reid
Charlotteâs Web by E. B. White
Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and RogĂ© Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Special thanks to Kristina Samulewski, Coral Ann Howells and Brooks Bouson. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick and Aman Sahota. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Representative Marie Gluesenkamp Perez is one of just 13 Democrats to represent a district that Donald Trump won. Her distinctive economic message, and a willingness to buck her own party, helped her win re-election. But now the reality of the Trump era is coming home.
Gluesenkamp Perez faced raucous crowds at town halls in Washington State recently, with some of her more liberal constituents furious that she isnât opposing the administration more forcefully. At the same time, the White House has started making economic arguments that sound very similar to ones that sheâs made â that we should consume less, produce more and import less stuff from abroad.
So I wanted to talk to her about how sheâs navigating this moment. What does she think of Trumpâs economic agenda? What reactions is she seeing across her district? How does a Democrat now represent both terrified liberals and loyal Trump voters?
This episode contains strong language.
Book Recommendations:
The Wheelwrightâs Shop by George Sturt
Experiences in Visual Thinking by Robert H. McKim
Childrenâs poetry anthologies from Jack Prelutsky
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The U.S. dollar is the lingua franca of the global financial system. The fact that so much of the world relies on our currency has long been understood as our exorbitant privilege â the reason we have so much leverage in the global economy and are able to borrow at lower interest rates.
But the Trump administration has a much more complicated relationship with the dollar. It has come to see dollar dominance as a burden we bear on behalf of the rest of the world. But in its attempts to move away from dollar dominance, is the Trump administration on the verge of creating a financial crisis?
Kenneth Rogoff is a former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund and a professor of economics at Harvard University. He has a book coming out called âOur Dollar, Your Problem.â In this conversation he walks through the history of dollar dominance, why itâs been waning in recent years and what ripple effects the Trump administrationâs policies might have.
This episode contains strong language.
Book Recommendations:
Muppets in Moscow by Natasha Lance Rogoff
The Queenâs Gambit by Walter Tevis
Benjamin Franklin by Walter Isaacson
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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âAbundance,â the book I co-wrote with Derek Thompson, hit bookstore shelves a little over a month ago, and the response has been beyond anything I could have imagined. And itâs generated a lot of interesting critiques, too, especially from the left. So I wanted to dedicate an episode to talking through some of them.
My guests today are both on the left but have very different perspectives. Zephyr Teachout is a law professor at Fordham University and one of the most prominent voices in the antimonopoly movement. Saikat Chakrabarti is the president and co-founder of New Consensus, a think tank that has been trying to think through what it would take to build at Green New Deal scale and pace. And he is currently running to unseat Nancy Pelosi in Congress.
I found this conversation wonderfully clarifying â both in the places it revealed agreement, and perhaps even more in the places it revealed difference.
Mentioned:
âHow the Gentry Won: Property Lawâs Embrace of Stasisâ by David Schleicher and Roderick M. Hills, Jr.
âThe High Cost of Producing Multifamily Housing in Californiaâ by Jason M. Ward and Luke Schlake
Zephyrâs Book Recommendations:
The Promise of Politics by Hannah Arendt
The Populist Moment by Lawrence Goodwyn
Listen, Liberal by Thomas Frank
Saikatâs Book Recommendations:
Destructive Creation by Mark R. Wilson
Bad Samaritans by Ha-Joon Chang
The Defining Moment by Jonathan Alter
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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I have no earthly idea how to describe this conversation. Itâs about religion and belief â at this moment in our politics, and in our lives more generally.
My guest and I come from very different perspectives. Ross Douthat is a Catholic conservative, who wrote a book called âBelieve: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.â Iâm a ⊠Californian. But I think everyone would enjoy this conversation â believers, skeptics and seekers alike.
Some questions touched on: Is the Trump administration Christian or pagan? How do Christian Trump supporters reconcile the cruelties of this administration with their faith? Can religious experiences be explained by misfiring neurons? Should organized religions embrace psychedelics? Can mystery provide more comfort than certainty?
And if you do enjoy this episode, be sure to check out Douthatâs new New York Times Opinion Audio show âInteresting Times,â available wherever you get your podcasts, and on YouTube.
Mentioned:
Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
âDonald Trump, Man of Destinyâ by Ross Douthat
Living with a Wild God by Barbara Ehrenreich
Book Recommendations:
Modern Physics and Ancient Faith by Stephen Barr
After by Bruce Greyson
Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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After last weekâs episode, âThe Emergency Is Here,â we got a lot of emails. And the most common reply was: You really think weâll have midterm elections in 2026? Isnât that naĂŻve?
I think we will have midterms. But one reason I think so many people are skeptical of that is theyâre working with comparisons to other places: Mussoliniâs Italy, Putinâs Russia, Pinochetâs Chile.
But we donât need to look abroad for parallels; it has happened here.
Steven Hahn is a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian at New York University and the author of âIlliberal America: A History.â In this conversation, he walks me through some of the most illiberal periods in American history: Andrew Jacksonâs Indian Removal Act of 1830, Jim Crow, the Red Scare, Japanese American internment, Operation Wetback. And we discuss how this legacy can help us better understand whatâs happening right now.
This episode contains strong language.
Book Recommendations:
Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville
From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime by Elizabeth Hinton
Troubled Memory by Lawrence N. Powell
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick, Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker and Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The president of the United States is disappearing people to a Salvadoran prison for terrorists: a prison built for disappearance, a prison where there is no education or remediation or recreation, a prison where the only way out, according to El Salvadorâs justice minister, is in a coffin.
The president says he wants to send âhomegrownâ Americans there next.
This is the emergency. Like it or not, itâs here.
Asha Rangappa is a former F.B.I. special agent and now an assistant dean and senior lecturer at the Yale Jackson School of Global Affairs, as well as a member of the board of editors for Just Security and the author of The Freedom Academy on Substack.
Mentioned:
âAbrego Garcia and MS-13: What Do We Know?â by Roger Parloff
Book Recommendations:
The Burning by Tim Madigan
Breaking Twitter by Ben Mezrich
Erasing History by Jason Stanley
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Rollin Hu, Jack McCordick, Kristin Lin and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Aaron Reichlin-Melnick.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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My colleague Tom Friedman thinks weâre screwed.
Thatâs the first thing he told me when recounting his recent trip to China. Itâs not just because of the trade war that President Trump is escalating right now. Friedman believes the whole Washington consensus on China â that the country is a hostile adversary â is dangerous and based on an outdated understanding of what China now is. He saw how Chinaâs manufacturing and technology have advanced so far that in many ways it now surpasses the United Statesâ.
In this conversation, Friedman walks me through the advancements he saw in some of the most critical fields of the coming decades â including A.I., E.V.s and clean energy. We discuss why he sees the current consensus as dangerous, what a different path might look like and what the United States should do to develop its domestic manufacturing so that we donât âget steamrolled.â
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âI Just Saw the Future. It Was Not in America.â by Thomas L. Friedman
âChina's overlapping tech-industrial ecosystemsâ by Kyle Chan
Genesis by Henry A. Kissinger, Eric Schmidt and Craig Mundie
Book Recommendations:
The works of Yuval Noah Harari
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Zoe Zongyuan Liu, Kyle Chan and Matt Sheehan.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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After a week of market chaos, President Trump pulled back from the brink. But he didnât pull that far back. He left a 10 percent tariff on most of the world and launched a trade war with China. Itâs unclear what he will do after this 90-day pause or what countries need to do to satisfy him. But one thing that is very clear now is that our economy is subject to one manâs whims.
How are businesses supposed to adapt to this new reality? What is this new reality?
Peter R. Orszag is the chief executive and chairman of Lazard, one of the worldâs largest asset management and global financial advisory firms. He also served as the director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Barack Obama, so was a policymaker during a financial crisis. And over the past few months, heâs been talking to lots of C.E.O.s and corporate board members as they try to process these changing policies. I wanted to ask him what heâs been hearing and how he sees the volatility of this moment.
Mentioned:
âA Userâs Guide to Restructuring the Global Trading Systemâ by Stephen Miran
âPaul Krugman on the âBiggest Trade Shock in Historyââ by The Ezra Klein Show
Trade Wars Are Class Wars by Matthew C. Klein and Michael Pettis
Book Recommendations:
Underground Empire by Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman
Chokepoints by Edward Fishman
Smart Money by Brunello Rosa and Casey Larsen
The Catalyst by Thomas R. Cech
Kaput by Wolfgang MĂŒnchau
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Matt Klein.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The tariffs President Trump unveiled this week were both bigger than most people expected and a lot more confusing. These arenât the flat tariffs he proposed during the campaign. And they arenât reciprocal tariffs, as he claimed in his Rose Garden speech. So what is Trump actually doing here?
I knew my former colleague Paul Krugman would have some thoughts. Krugman is a Nobel laureate trade economist who was a New York Times Opinion columnist for 25 years. He now writes an excellent newsletter on Substack, where heâs been trying to make sense of the theories behind Trumpâs tariff policies and, now, their strange reality.
Mentioned:
âStop Looking for Methods in the Madnessâ by Paul Krugman
Book Recommendations:
The Price of Peace by Zachary D. Carter
How Not to Invest by Barry Ritholtz
War and Power by Phillips Payson OâBrien
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Thereâs something of a policy revolution afoot: As of March, more than a dozen states â including California, Florida and Ohio â have passed bills or adopted policies that aim to limit cellphone usage at school. More are expected to follow.
Jonathan Haidt is the leader of this particular insurgency. âThe Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness,â his book exploring the decline of the âplay-based childhoodâ and the rise of the âphone-based childhood,â has been on the New York Times best-seller list for a year. It feels, to me, like weâre finally figuring out a reasonable approach to smartphones and social media and kids ⊠just in time for that approach to be deranged by the question of A.I. and kids, which no one is really prepared for.
So I wanted to have Haidt on the show to talk through both of those topics, and the questions we often ignore beneath them: What is childhood for? What are parents for? What do human beings need in order to flourish? You know, the small stuff.
Haidt is a professor at New York University Stern School of Business and the author of âThe Righteous Mindâ and âThe Coddling of the American Mindâ (with Greg Lukianoff). His newsletter is called After Babel.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âShe Fell in Love With ChatGPT. Like, Actual Love. With Sex.â by The Daily
The Age of Addiction by David T. Courtwright
âHave Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?â By Jean Twenge
Stolen Focus by Johann Hari
Book Recommendations:
The Stoic Challenge by William B. Irvine
Deep Work by Cal Newport
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Itâs our first subscriber-only âAsk Me Anythingâ of the year. The showâs executive producer, Claire Gordon, joins me to discuss your questions about the risk of a constitutional crisis and how Democrats, businesses and universities are responding to President Trump.
Thank you to everyone who sent in questions. And if you arenât a New York Times subscriber but would like to be, just go to https://www.nytimes.com/subscription.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âA Democrat Who Is Thinking Differentlyâ by The Ezra Klein Show with Jake Auchincloss
âDon't Believe Himâ by Ezra Klein
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The so-called Department of Government Efficiency is great branding. Who could be against a more efficient government? But âefficiencyâ obfuscates whatâs really happening here.
Efficiency to what end? Elon Musk, President Trump and DOGEâs boosters have offered various objectives â cutting the deficit, eliminating fraud and abuse, creating a leaner and more responsive government. But DOGEâs actions in the past two months donât seem to align with any of those goals.
Santi Ruiz is the senior editor at the Institute for Progress and the author and host of the âStatecraftâ podcast and newsletter. Heâs to my right politically and had higher hopes, at first, about DOGEâs efforts, but heâs now grappling with the reality of what itâs actually doing.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
â50 Thoughts on DOGEâ by SantĂ Ruiz
âHow to Defend Presidential Authorityâ by SantĂ Ruiz
âThe Anti-D.E.I. Crusader Who Wants to Dismantle the Department of Educationâ by Ross Douthat
Book Recommendations:
Stalinâs War by Sean McMeekin
Back from the Brink by Peter Moskos
Power And Responsibility by Romano Guardini
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio, Ryan Bourne, Rohan Grey, Don Moynihan, Quinn Slobodian and Jennifer Pahlka.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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