Episodes
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Adam Morgan, founder of eatbigfish and co-creator of The Cost of Dull, joins us to explore why surprise is one of the most powerful tools available to marketers. Drawing on new research unveiled at Cannes Lions, Adam and Jon explain the psychology behind surprise, the science of reward prediction error, and why memorable brands consistently give people more than they expect.
We discuss the different types of surprise, why products need to live up to the expectations created by advertising, and examine some of the best examples of surprise in modern marketing from Aldi to Jaguar and beyond.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:58 - The surprising outcomes of Cost of Dull
06:04 - The genesis of Cost of Dull
09:01 - Why are we talking about surprise?
10:08 - Why the best marketers look outside of marketing
13:42 - What the data says about surprise
15:50 - Reward prediction error
17:26 - Why your product needs to exceed expectations set by your brand
19:59 - The surprising power of giving people more than they expect
21:48 - The two types of surprise
25:00 - Adam’s favourite examples of surprise
26:09 - Jon’s favourite example of surprise
28:20 - Was Jaguar intentionally surprising?
29:39 - Examples of long term surprise
31:50 - Why Aldi are so successful at surprise
34:28 - Why you need a system for your surprise
38:15 - The right balance of surprise
42:12 - When is shock necessary -
Suso O'Brien, former CMO of Just Eat, joins us to discuss what the role of the modern CMO really looks like. Drawing on her experience helping scale Just Eat and the findings from a new CMO survey conducted with TikTok, Suso argues that today's marketing leaders need a completely different set of priorities.
We revisit the growth of Just Eat, the success of the iconic “Did Somebody Say…” campaign, and the role celebrity partnerships and sonic branding played in building the brand. But beyond the advertising, Suso shares why CMOs spend surprisingly little time on the work itself, why internal influence matters more than ever, and why managing expectations may be more important than managing brands.
The conversation also explores the lack of marketing representation at the top of organisations, the pressures facing today's CMOs, and Suso's framework for leading people through her five Cs of great management.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
02:52 - The food delivery category in 2016
04:05 - The role marketing played in the growth of Just Eat
05:55 - Does “did somebody say?” translate globally?
07:26 - The celebrity strategy behind Just Eat
09:47 - The power of sonic branding
12:12 - What impact did the campaign have vs other growth levers for Just Eat
14:36 - CMOs rarely spend any time on the work
17:28 - The real 4 Ps of the CMO
19:06 - Discoveries from the CMO survey with TikTok
20:56 - Why the lack of marketing representation at the top of companies is worrying
22:00 - What skills are lacking in an organisation
23:08 - The short term pressure on the CMO
24:34 - How do you make the case to invest in long term
28:20 - The power of compounding creativity
29:04 - The CMO’s role is managing expectations, not brands
30:04 - Why CMO’s need to persuade internal stakeholders
36:10 - The #1 challenge CMO’s face
40:58 - Suso’s hardest challenges as Just Eat CMO
42:40 - Why Suso asked her colleagues for feedback when she left Just Eat
44:17 - 5 C’s of great people management
44:32 - 1: Care
45:30 - 2: Clarity
47:35 - 3. Calling it early
49:12 - 4. The cost of comfort
51:33 - 5: Constant feedback
53:25 - Suso’s advice to future CMOs -
Missing episodes?
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Jamie Domenici, CMO of Klaviyo, joins us to discuss why customer experience has become one of the most powerful drivers of growth. Drawing on lessons from nearly a decade at Salesforce and her experience joining Klaviyo just months before its IPO, Jamie shares how great brands create loyalty by obsessing over the customer.
We explore what marketers can learn from customer success teams, why events like Dreamforce are so memorable, and how Klaviyo has repositioned itself while building a competitive moat in an increasingly crowded market.
Jamie also shares her views on AI, the future workforce, the skills tomorrow's CMOs will need, and the difference between good marketing leaders and truly great ones.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:05 - Jamie’s strange first job
02:26 - Best and worst customer experiences
05:56 - The power of a good customer experience
08:45 - Marketing lessons from customer success
11:48 - Marketing lessons from 10 years at Salesforce
13:05 - Why Dreamforce was a great example of good customer experience
14:46 - The key to a great keynote
21:56 - Joining Klaviyo just months before an IPO
24:28 - Repositioning a company
25:45 - How does B2C differ to B2B when it comes to CRM?
28:41 - How Klaviyo are building their moat
30:51 - Where is AI going to have the biggest impact?
32:19 - How are Klaviyo using AI in their product?
34:14 - How AI is going to change the workforce
35:42 - What skills will future CMOs be hiring for?
37:31 - The difference between a good CMO and a great CMO
39:17 - Why Klaviyo invest a lot in events
40:52 - The best advice Jamie has ever received -
Anselmo Ramos is one of the most respected creatives in advertising and the co-founder of GUT, the agency behind some of the world's most talked-about campaigns. Built on the belief that brave creativity drives business growth, GUT has quickly become one of the industry's most successful modern agencies.
In this episode, Anselmo shares the story behind founding GUT, the principles that guide the business, and why marketers need to trust their instincts more. We discuss the power of relationships, how to build a great co-founder partnership, and why the biggest challenge often comes after success.
We also explore GUT's approach to pitching, the bravery gap facing modern brands, the role of AI, and the campaigns that have helped define the agency's remarkable rise.
Timestamps00:00:00 - Start
00:02:44 - Why is the industry obsessed with making rational advertising?
00:04:19 - Why GUT have 68 principles
00:06:27 - Why you need to pay more attention to your GUT
00:09:10 - The GUT agency founding story
00:12:41 - The secret to a successful co-founder relationship
00:14:42 - Lessons from creating a successful agency
00:17:58 - The surprising challenges of growing a successful agency
00:20:14 - The compounding power of relationships
00:22:55 - GUT’s approach to pitching
00:29:26 - How to be productive and find inspiration
00:31:50 - The power of working without approval
00:36:26 - The bravery scale and the bravery gap
00:40:17 - How to become a brave brand
00:43:26 - Why brave creativity drives business results
00:45:52 - Why black t shirts?
00:49:09 - How GUT’s acquisition changed the business
00:56:21 - How to plan your exit strategy
00:59:29 - The Artois Probability: a Grand Prix winning campaign
01:03:55 - Wimbledon All White Stella Artois Can
01:05:59 - Stella Artois partnership with David Beckham
01:11:06 - Where Anselmo uses AI
01:13:53 - The best advice Anselmo has ever been given -
Greg Hahn returns to the podcast to discuss the philosophy that has made Mischief one of the most talked-about agencies in the world.
From Tubi's famous Super Bowl interruption campaign to turning around legacy brands like JCPenney, Greg explains why the biggest risk brands face today isn't failure, it's being ignored. We discuss how to create safe spaces for dangerous ideas, why AI risks making marketers more cautious, and the hidden cost of playing it safe.
Greg also shares the traits of great CMOs, the future of agencies and pitching, the campaigns he's most proud of, and the advice he'd give to the next generation of creatives.
Thanks for System1 for supporting the podcast: https://system1group.com
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:43 - Who are Mischief and what do they stand for?
04:26 - What would Greg Hahn’s walk on track be?
05:05 - How to make a safe space for dangerous ideas
07:46 - Is AI making us play it safe?
10:37 - What is the real cost of playing it safe?
14:31 - The Mischief strategy behind Tubi
16:20 - Tubi’s famous Super Bowl interruption campaign
17:20 - The reward prediction error theory
22:16 - Turning around a large legacy business like JCPenney
25:55 - The traits of a successful CMO
28:06 - The JCPenney movie trailer
30:16 - Goldfish Chilean Sea Bass campaign
35:51 - Why Greg likes George Felix as a CMO
37:09 - The work that Greg is most proud of
38:03 - What does the future of pitching look like?
40:50 - How much of Mischief’s work comes from pitching
42:13 - The future of social media
43:17 - What other agency work is Greg envious of?
45:03 - What would Greg do if he wasn’t afraid?
48:01 - What does the future creative agency look like?
49:14 - What does the future CMO role look like?
51:12 - What does Greg want to achieve next?
53:29 - Greg’s advice for young creatives
54:25 - What’s the best advice Greg Hahn has ever been given?
56:59 - What content does Greg consume? - Post chat -
George Felix, CMO of Chili’s, joins us to tell the story behind one of the most impressive brand turnarounds of recent years. From iconic menu items like chips and salsa and the famous margarita to viral social media moments and creative partnerships, George explains how Chili’s became culturally relevant again and reignited growth.
Before Chili’s, George played a key role in the legendary Old Spice turnaround, and in this episode he shares the lessons he's learned from transforming legacy brands. We discuss the power of nostalgia, making the most of your agency relationships, influencing product and pricing decisions, and why the customer experience often drives more value than advertising alone.
Timestamps00:00:00 - Start
00:02:07 - The famous Chili’s chips and salsa
00:03:39 - The famous Chili’s margharita
00:06:32 - Why Chili’s has signature items
00:08:01 - How Chili’s became one of the biggest brand turnarounds in history
00:10:51 - The importance of working with people you trust
00:12:26 - George’s role in the Old Spice turnaround
00:18:10 - How to build the case for increased brand investment
00:21:16 - The power of nostalgia for a legacy brand
00:25:57 - How George pitched an idea to his creative agency and they bought it
00:29:03 - The System1 data for the Chili’s ad
00:30:45 - Fostering a great client / agency relationship
00:38:19 - How experience drives better ROI than marketing
00:42:43 - The viral cheese pull trend
00:45:45 - How can a brand create cultural relevance?
00:48:45 - Chili’s brand collaboration with Tecovas Boots
00:51:19 - How George has influence over the Product “P” in marketing
00:54:51 - How to leverage the Pricing “P”
00:57:43 - The concept of “barbell pricing”
01:00:27 - What is the most important attribute for a successful CMO? -
Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin return for part two of our wide-ranging conversation on the future of marketing, creativity, and business.
From driverless cars and Silicon Valley thinking, to the dangers of digitising every human interaction, Rory and Tom explore what businesses lose when efficiency becomes the only goal. They also discuss why governments need creative departments, whether we truly understand how advertising works, and how marketers can finally gain the influence they deserve inside organisations.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Start
00:56 - What will be the advertising agency of the future?
10:39 - How to change the way we think about ad agencies
15:42 - Why the government need a creative department
19:44 - Creativity isn’t dead because AI only uses data from the past
22:32 - How marketers can achieve the influence they deserve
24:08 - Do we really know how advertising works?
29:29 - Is Tesla applying marketing thinking?
31:58 - The future of driverless cars and the danger of Silicon Valley
44:03 - Human interaction vs digitising everything
47:43 - Tom and Rory’s advice for CMOs -
Two of our most popular guests return for a conversation on what’s gone wrong in modern marketing and how to fix it. Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin tackle everything from digital overload and bad choice architecture to the disappearance of taglines, long-term thinking, and genuine creativity.
Expect behavioural science, contrarian thinking, and plenty of ideas that will make you rethink how marketing really works.
Timestamps00:00:00 - Start
00:01:31 - Digital overload - are consumers given too much choice?
00:05:51 - The power of “Easter Egg Thinking”
00:07:54 - Have hotels destroyed choice architecture?
00:10:56 - More choice reduction failures
00:14:46 - Do consumers need more choice?
00:17:45 - How ad agencies can discover real insights
00:19:21 - An idea to revolutionise Cannes
00:20:49 - Why Rory and Tom think differently
00:24:05 - What are the biggest marketing myths today
00:30:41 - Fat tailed distribution - the Dulux Dog
00:32:18 - Why we need to bring back the tagline
00:35:17 - Are marketers too young?
00:37:15 - The long term work only pays off after you’re fired
00:42:34 - How to we make companies look more long term?
00:48:03 - Why people love Ryanair but hate BA
00:49:09 - The role of surprise in advertising
00:50:43 - Is marketing actually rather easy?
01:00:49 - Is the advertising agency model broken?Thank you to our sponsor, System1: https://system1group.com/
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Jim Olson has spent his career helping businesses navigate moments of intense pressure from corporate crises to deeply personal challenges, running comms at United Airlines and Starbucks. In this episode, the author of Tailwind shares the lessons he’s learned from leadership, resilience, and facing adversity head-on.
Drawing inspiration from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing, Jim explains why the best crisis leaders follow the same process: aviate, navigate, communicate. We discuss where crisis management often goes wrong, what leaders can learn from failures like United Airlines, and why “black box thinking” matters in both business and marketing.
Jim also opens up about his own cancer diagnosis and the mindset that helped him through it.
Get Jim's new book, Tailwind here:
https://www.amazon.com/Tailwind-Compass-Turning-Setback-Comeback/dp/B0GXCM3VYT/00:00 - Start
01:11 - Lessons from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing
06:11 - The black box thinking approach to marketing
07:30 - Other crises Jim has had to deal with in his career
09:18 - When crisis management goes wrong - United Airlines
13:11 - Managing merging two cultures
15:27 - The situation when Jim’s CEO had a heart attack
18:00 - Jim’s cancer diagnosis
23:30 - The power of positive mentality
28:30 - Don’t ask yourself what if, ask yourself why not
31:34 - The power of a fourth space
34:05 - Crisis doesn’t build character, it reveals it
37:02 - Leadership lessons from Howard Schultz
38:58 - Jim’s advice for those people facing a crisis -
Dan Taylor has spent over two decades at Google, helping shape how brands grow through search, media, and technology. Today, he leads global advertising at one of the world’s most influential companies, giving him a front-row seat to the biggest shifts in marketing.
In this episode, Dan shares what he’s learned from 20 years at Google, from the importance of simplicity to navigating organisational complexity and the evolving relationship between product and commercial teams. We also dive into the future of search, including AI, new tools like “Circle to Search,” and what it all means for marketers.
Timestamps00:00 – Start
00:40 – Lessons from being a pilot
05:34 – Lessons from 20 years at Google
06:43 – How Google has changed over two decades
07:46 – The power of simplicity
09:02 – Google’s breakthrough moments
12:11 – The relationship between commercial and product
13:47 – Navigating organisational politics
17:08 – The biggest search trends in marketing
18:24 – What is “Circle to Search”?
20:37 – Opportunities for marketers in new search behaviours
24:52 – How AI is changing search
25:59 – Does Google see AI as competition?
28:09 – Will ads exist in AI search?
32:00 – How brands can improve search performance
33:42 – Making the most of Google and YouTube
35:34 – Measuring the value of brand search
39:56 – AI’s impact on creativity
45:52 – The one lesson from 20 years at Google -
Zena Arnold, CMO of Sephora, joins us to break down how one of the world’s most influential beauty retailers continues to set the standard for brand, community, and culture.
From standout branding to record-breaking product launches, Zena shares what’s behind Sephora’s success and how the business stays relentlessly close to its customers in a fast-moving category. We explore the rise of celebrity brands, the power of loyalty, and how Sephora works with creators through initiatives like the Sephora Squad.
Thank you to our sponsor, System1: https://system1group.com/
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:13 - Zena’s incredible marketing career
06:02 - Lessons that turned Zena into the marketer she is today
07:41 - What has made Sephora so successful?
10:01 - Why Sephora’s branding stands out
11:30 - What’s trending in the beauty category in 2026?
13:22 - How does Sephora stay close to the customer?
14:45 - The biggest brand launch in Sephora history
15:25 - How to pitch a beauty brand to Sephora
18:00 - How important are celebrity brands?
19:03 - Helping brands launch in Sephora
21:00 - The power of Sephora’s loyalty programme
25:09 - How Sephora attract new customers
27:02 - How Sephora uses creators effectively with the Sephora Squad
29:45 - How to measure the effectiveness of creators
31:12 - The exceptional advertising of Sephora
32:49 - How Sephora uses tech in their marketing
38:09 - Dealing with the speed of retail
39:00 - Creating conditions where you can fail and learn -
Rachel Thornton, Enterprise CMO at Adobe, joins us to unpack how one of the world’s leading technology companies is navigating marketing in the age of AI. From brand building in B2B to launching complex software products, Rachel shares what it takes to drive growth at global scale.
We discuss the role of major events like Adobe Summit, how AI is transforming both the practice and perception of marketing, and why community and storytelling are becoming more important than ever. Rachel also explains how Adobe balances brand and product marketing, invests in partnerships like sports sponsorships, and what “agentic orchestration” actually means in practice.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:39 - Rachel’s career and what makes a successful CMO
04:12 - The importance of brand in B2B
08:57 - The role of large events in B2B marketing (like Adobe Summit)
12:29 - The biggest changes AI have had in marketing
18:06 - How Adobe approaches community in their marketing
20:26 - How Adobe use AI in their marketing
22:53 - How Tesco use Adobe
24:22 - Adobe’s product launches at Summit 2026
26:50 - What does agentic orchestration mean?
28:33 - How to successfully launch new software?
29:58 - How Adobe addresses brand vs product marketing?
30:57 - Why Adobe invests in sports sponsorships
34:26 - The power of storytelling in sport
36:07 - The best advice Rachel has received -
Nir Eyal returns to the podcast to discuss his latest book, Beyond Belief, and the powerful role belief plays in shaping our behaviour, relationships, and decisions.
From the difference between fact, faith, and belief to the surprising ways our perceptions influence what we see, Nir explains how beliefs can be consciously changed and why doing so can transform everything from personal performance to company culture.
We also explore the role of belief in branding, including how companies like Liquid Death use anticipation to disrupt entire categories, and why the most successful brands don’t just sell products they shape what people believe.
Thank you to System1 for sponsoring Uncensored CMO.
https://system1group.com/
Timestamps00:00 - Start
01:44 - Why Nir wrote a book about belief?
05:57 - How powerful can belief be?
10:15 - Believing is seeing
12:44 - The three powers of belief
14:42 - The difference between fact, faith and belief
16:05 - How belief can affect relationships
17:10 - How to change your beliefs
25:52 - How powerful can beliefs be?
28:37 - The cautious power of placebo
32:59 - Why Liquid Death used the power of anticipation to disrupt water
35:59 - Why brand is so powerful
37:40 - How our beliefs literally shape what we see
39:42 - Why smart people are more unsuccessful
41:59 - How beliefs can improve company culture
42:57 - When should you quit?
47:08 - Why labelling yourself can be self-limiting
50:52 - How to build good beliefs -
Today, Jon and Kory break down one of the most misunderstood relationships in marketing: working with agencies.
From treating agencies as a true force multiplier to fixing broken relationships, they share practical advice on how to get the best out of your partners, and what to do when things inevitably go wrong. This is a candid look at trust, expectations, and why the best results come when agencies feel like part of your team, not just a supplier.
Whether you’re managing an agency or working inside one, this episode will change how you think about the relationship.
Get Uncensored Renegades every week:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:20 - Why agencies can be a force multiplier
02:11 - How to fix a broken agency relationship
04:12 - How to set your agency up for success
08:36 - Bringing your agency into your company
13:42 - What to do when things go wrong with your agency
18:30 - Be tough in victory and gentle in defeat
20:17 - What is the cost of changing your agency? -
Danny Alexander, co-founder of Who Gives A Crap, joins us to share how a toilet paper brand became a global challenger business while giving away 50% of its profits to charity.
From launching with a viral crowdfunding campaign to capitalising on the global toilet paper shortage, Danny breaks down how the brand combined purpose, creativity, and strong fundamentals to stand out in a commoditised category.
We also discuss the realities of scaling a mission-led business, the differences between DTC and retail marketing, lessons from failed launches, and how to build a team and culture that lasts. A brilliant look at what it really takes to build a brand people care about.
Timestamps
00:00 – Start
00:29 – The founding story of Who Gives A Crap
02:55 – The benefits of having three co-founders
05:00 – Naming the company
07:07 – Innovating in packaging design
10:08 – The story behind the emergency roll
10:58 – Why they give away 50% of profits
12:53 – Convincing investors to support the mission
14:38 – The viral crowdfunding campaign
17:33 – Capitalising on the toilet paper shortage
22:45 – DTC vs retail marketing
24:36 – Most effective marketing campaigns
27:46 – Biggest challenges and failures
30:53 – A failed brand launch
37:08 – Hiring great talent
38:32 – The five values of Who Gives A Crap
41:14 – Advice for aspiring founders -
Today, Jon and Kory explore a simple but often overlooked skill: how to actually find inspiration.
From brands like Tony’s Chocolonely to supermarkets, subways, and even nature, they break down why the best ideas rarely come from inside your own company. Instead, inspiration comes from changing your environment, staying curious, and being open to unexpected moments.If you’re feeling stuck, this episode is a reminder that great ideas are everywhere, if you’re willing to look for them.
Get Uncensored Renegades every week:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480c
Timestamps00:00 - Start
00:32 - Why Jon is inspired by Tony’s Chocolonely
06:45 - Why you need to look outside your company for inspiration
08:35 - Finding inspiration in nature
10:54 - The importance of changing your context
12:56 - Getting inspiration in a supermarket
14:33 - Getting inspiration on the metro
16:57 - Why you need to be open to be inspired -
Walter Susini, former CMO of Coca-Cola Europe, joins us to share what it really takes to succeed inside one of the world’s most iconic brands. From the enduring power of “Holidays Are Coming” to the role of jingles and distinctive assets.
We also dive into innovation at Coca-Cola, including the lessons from Coke Zero and the failed launch of Coke Energy, and where brands often get innovation wrong.
But beyond marketing, Walter offers a candid look at the political reality of being a CMO, a theme he explores in his book Bullsh*t Inc., an unfiltered guide to how companies really operate behind the scenes. Drawing on decades of experience, he shares why performance alone isn’t enough, how decisions actually get made, and what it takes to survive and succeed inside large organisations.
Get Walter's book here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BULLSH-INC-Unfiltered-Survival-Corporate/dp/B0G6PVDM11Sign up to our live event, The Calling, on April 21st here:
https://event.uncensoredcmo.com/events/uncensoredcmo/2044861Subscribe to our newsletter, The One Thing:
https://newsletter.uncensoredcmo.com/Listen to our new podcast, Uncensored Renegades:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480cTimestamps
00:00 - Start
00:58 - Walter Susini’s career journey
02:38 - Why Coke ran the holidays are coming ads for so long?
05:51 - The power of distinctive assets for Coca Cola - especially jingles
08:34 - Why Pepsi used Coke’s polar bear
11:50 - What the data says about the Pepsi polar bear ad
15:41 - Why Walter is a “Professor of Practice”
18:10 - The failed launch of Coke Energy
21:29 - Innovation in the drinks industry: launching Coke Zero
23:32 - The sweet spot for innovation
25:53 - The political reality of being a CMO
34:00 - Why Walter’s book cover is yellow
37:11 - Why Walter wrote a book on corporate politics
40:29 - How to navigate the politics in a business
42:27 - Why you can still be fired if your performance is great
44:54 - Performance theatre beats actual theatre
47:15 - Why decisions don’t get made in meetings
47:57 - Why vulnerability and psychological safety are non-existent in business
49:33 - Dealing with buzzword hyperfocus
53:39 - How to survive the corporate jungle -
Leadership at the top level doesn't come free it costs time, energy, and often the comfort of a predictable life. In this episode, Kory and Jon get honest about what it really takes to lead as a CMO: the personal sacrifices, the travel, the pressure, and the constant balancing act between work and home. From managing time zones on the road to the surprisingly powerful concept of strategic laziness, this is a candid look at what high-performance leadership actually demands, and how to make it sustainable.
Get Uncensored Renegades every week:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480cTimestamps
00:00 - Start
00:39 - What sacrifices do CMOs need to make
04:37 - How to balance work with home life
06:36 - Managing time zone differences when you travel
10:41 - How to apply strategic laziness
14:15 - How to lead effectively under pressure from travelling -
Last year, I sat down with Jaguar MD Rawdon Glover to unpack one of the most controversial rebrands in automotive history. Now, the car is real and I got a chance to ride around the test track in it.
Joined by Rory Sutherland, we travelled to Jaguar’s HQ to experience the new car in prototype form. What followed was a conversation on whether this radical reinvention is genius or madness.
We dive into the thinking behind the design, the disappearing trade-offs between performance and comfort, and why Jaguar is deliberately challenging convention. Rory brings his trademark perspective on behaviour and perception, including how to rethink “range anxiety” and what makes a product feel truly desirable.
This is a rare look inside a brand attempting one of the boldest transformations in modern automotive history.
Timestamps00:00 - Start
01:10 - What has gone into creating the new Jaguar?
04:00 - Balancing performance and comfort
05:43 - The power of choosing conflicting goals
07:51 - Why the new Jaguar is being tested on ice?
10:32 - How close is the concept car to the production car?
12:54 - Who is the target audience for the new Jaguar?
14:30 - The design process of the new Jaguar
18:41 - The Spirit of Jaguar Campaign
20:46 - Why the metrics for electric cars need to change
22:13 - Why the new Jaguar is a bargain at £130,000
25:34 - Will petrolheads like this car?
26:37 - Why electrification changes the paradigm of what’s possible
30:47 - Rory’s pitch for removing battery anxiety
33:08 - Why Ferrari and Lamborghini took different approaches to EVs
35:21 - Will the new Jaguar be a Waymo?
36:27 - How are Jaguar predicting demand for this car?
36:41 - How will Jaguar predict demand for the car?
37:57 - The marketing plan for the new Jaguar
40:57 - Is the residual value of electric cars a worry?
42:12 - Customisation options for the new Jaguar
46:03 - What would Rory do if he was in charge of Jaguar
49:26 - The decision behind the bold car colours -
Getting fired is one of the most humbling experiences in business, and one of the most instructive. In this episode, Kory and Jon get candid about the times they've been let go, what went wrong, and the hard-won lessons that followed. Jon in particular has a story or two to share (including getting fired twice in 18 months), and between them they unpack what it really takes to survive and thrive in high-stakes leadership roles.
Get Uncensored Renegades every week:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/uncensored-renegades/id1868870960
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7qnkqq0XSpgif9A5ZNgSpX?si=f181c3a0e9af480cTimestamps
00:00 - Start
01:22 - What Jon learned from being fired twice
03:35 - How not to get fired
08:20 - How to understand your boss (so you don’t get fired)
10:50 - Align yourself with the company, not just personal goals
13:11 - How Jon got fired for the second time in 18 months
16:12 - Are you the right person to work for a high growth company?
17:50 - Be careful where you get hired - Show more
