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"Work hardest when times are best, not worst" - this counterintuitive philosophy helped Brock Boyd build a 25-year tech recruitment empire that's survived three major market crashes.
When Brock Boyd started his recruitment firm in 1998, he ran his business from his bedroom in a shared house, where suited colleagues would show up to work daily - sometimes while he was still sleeping from late-night prospecting.
Today, 25 years later, he's a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society leading an international tech sales recruitment practice. Through multiple market cycles - from the dot-com crash to 2008's recession to today's tech slowdown - Brock has built Career Management Inc. (CMI) into a sustainable business while developing wealth-building principles that have given him true financial freedom.
Episode Outline and Highlights:
[01:49] How a friend needing a ride to a job fair led to recruitment.
[04:27] Taking the entrepreneurial leap after just 11 months!
[10:47] Recalling the early days: Cold calling from his bedroom while colleagues showed up in suits.
[15:26] Discussion of peak performance periods: 1999-2000 and 2021-2022.
[18:17] Focus on resilience: Surviving 2002 and the $63,000 bankruptcy challenge
[24:22] "I work by far the hardest in the best of times" - Brock's contrarian business philosophy
[27:47] Smart financial moves most recruiters miss: The "two boulders" theory
[38:51] How to retire early as recruiters: The three key factors
[54:56] Tech stack deep dive: What works in modern recruitment
[1:03:19] Understanding market cycles: "It's like winter and spring will come"
Building a Recession-Proof Tech Sales Recruitment Practice
After being hired by a staffing firm, Brock launched his own business after only 11 months! He had a fascinating story of finding his way into permanent staffing without really having much of a background before starting his recruitment firm.
From solo operator to leading an international team, Brock has built Career Management Inc. (CMI) into a sustainable practice over 25 years. Starting with just three clients in 1998, he strategically evolved from general sales to specialized tech sales recruitment.
Here is his firm’s current structure:
3.5 full-desk recruiters (US-based)
2.5 candidate-focused recruiters
International support team across Argentina, Colombia, Philippines, and India
Support staff handling administrative and database work
Below are the key success factors that helped his business thrive over the years, through multiple market cycles, including the dot-com crash, the 2008 recession, and the current tech slowdown, while growing sustainably through each recovery.
Early specialization in tech sales (higher fees vs general sales)
Lean operations during growth years
Strategic investment in revenue-generating tools
Counter-cyclical work approach: highest effort during boom markets
Maintaining core tools during downturns while cutting non-essential costs
Personal Finance & Wealth Building for Recruiters
A topic that resonates well with me is how Brock gives value to personal finance and wealth building for people in the recruitment industry. Most successful recruiters earn exceptional income, yet struggle to build lasting wealth in the long term. Brock has been a great example of turning his recruitment earnings into true financial freedom through disciplined investing and smart money management. He shared his mindset and strategies on how he balances his investment strategy with different instruments and risks.
Below are some core best practices he shared on the topic of personal finance:
Keep lifestyle expenses well below earnings, especially in good years
Never invest more than 10% of total assets in any single investment
Maintain substantial cash reserves to buy assets during downturns
Focus on three key areas: work earnings, investment earnings, and lifestyle costs
"The further below your earnings your lifestyle and spending are, the faster you're going to get to financial freedom. And the closer they are, or God forbid they're overlapped in the wrong direction, then the further away that is."
This disciplined approach has helped Brock build sustainable wealth through multiple market cycles while many recruiters, despite high earnings, struggle with long-term financial security.
“Working Hardest in the Best of Times”
"Work hardest when times are best, not worst" - this counterintuitive philosophy helped Brock Boyd build a 25-year tech recruitment empire that's survived three major market crashes.
Brock’s work ethic revolves around maintaining resilience through challenging times while recognizing the role of external factors. Uniquely, Brock works hardest during prosperous times, moderately during stable periods, and least during downturns. He views this approach as a strategic response to the opportunity cost, focusing energy where returns are likely highest. This pragmatic mindset helps him stay balanced and focused despite industry fluctuations.
Disclaimer: This podcast does not provide financial or tax advice; listeners are encouraged to consult a qualified professional for personalized guidance.
Brock Boyd Bio and Contact Info
Brock has served as President/Chief Executive Officer since founding Career Management, Inc. in April 1998. His aggressive pursuit of face time with the staffing industry’s leading experts led him to become the youngest member on the Board of the National Association of Personnel Services in 2001. To date, Brock has completed over 500 successful searches. In May of 2000, he was featured in the NAPS newsletter for his accomplishments and vision.
In addition, he received his CPC (Certified Personnel Consultant) designation in 2003. He has also produced and delivered seminars on interviewing skills (for candidates seeking positions as well as hiring managers). He has been hired to deliver sales training to multiple companies as well as consulting several companies on the process of building/hiring a sales organization from scratch.
Brock graduated from Old Dominion University where he was a NCAA Division I Collegiate Wrestler. He lives in Vienna, VA with his wife and son.
Brock Boyd on LinkedIn
CMI (Career Management Inc) website
People and Resources Mentioned
Bullhorn (ATS)
LinkedIn Recruiter
LinkedIn Sales Navigator
Prospect Ladder
Lusha
ZoomInfo
Pinnacle Society
S&P 500 Index
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Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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From being laid off at 5 weeks postpartum to generating nearly $700K in 14 months, Julia Arpag demonstrates how embracing change can lead to extraordinary success. After launching Aligned Recruitment, she developed a unique retainer model that transformed client relationships and created predictable revenue while building a remote team that serves clients internationally.
Julia founded Aligned Recruitment, specializing in tech recruitment for small and medium-sized businesses. Join us as she shares her journey from unexpected layoffs to building a thriving recruitment practice.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:28] Journey into recruitment through college admissions.
[03:17] The layoff that sparked entrepreneurship - 5 weeks postpartum.
[08:11] Starting the business part-time during maternity leave.
[16:49] Developing a unique monthly retainer model.
[21:02] Creating trust through a generous partnership approach.
[25:10] Building and structuring a remote team.
[30:34] International recruitment strategy and market focus.
[39:41] Handholding new clients.
[49:26] Detailed breakdown of successful sales campaigns.
[54:14] Running multiple lead generation campaigns.
[57:15] Faith, family, and building with purpose.
Reimagining the Recruitment Business Model
Julia developed a distinctive monthly retainer model that transformed how she partners with clients:
"A lot of recruiters only charge fee-based. So they're like, wait, you want me to pay you before you've given me a hire? Like, that's psychotic... I want to be your go-to recruitment partner for the entirety of the existence of your business."
Julia's retainer model in recruitment operates on a monthly subscription-like approach, charging clients based on the number of roles they need to fill rather than per placement. Here's how it works and its unique benefits:
How the Retainer Model Works:
Flat Monthly Fee: Clients pay a monthly retainer based on the estimated time and effort required to fill their roles.
Per-Role Pricing: The fee scales with the number of roles, offering discounts for higher volumes (e.g., five or more roles).
Flexible Engagement: Clients can start with a single role to test the service and then expand based on their hiring needs.
Transparent Estimation: Julia provides upfront estimates for time-to-fill, often under-promising and over-delivering.
This approach translates to unique relationships, repeat business, and client trust building as summarized below:
Cost Efficiency: Clients avoid paying steep, one-time placement fees, even if multiple candidates are hired for a single role.
Trust and Partnership: The model fosters long-term relationships, positioning Julia as an extension of the client’s team rather than a transactional vendor.
Predictability: Fixed monthly costs provide budget certainty, even for complex or ongoing hiring needs.
Comprehensive Support: This option is ideal for smaller businesses without in-house recruiting teams. It offers a "fractional recruiter" who handles all hiring needs without the risks of permanent staff.
This model balances generosity with strategic value, prioritizing trust and repeat business over short-term gains.
Building a Systematic Sales Campaign
Despite never closing a deal before launching her business, Julia developed a systematic sales approach that helped her reach nearly $700K in 14 months. She shares her exact process:
Lead Research: "I have someone on Fiverr... charges me 10 bucks for 50 lead needs" with clear parameters:
Companies with under 200 employees
Currently hiring software engineers
Contacts from C-suite and engineering leadership
Multi-Channel Campaign:
Step 1: Sends personalized Loom videos via email (using Apollo)
Step 2: Runs a parallel Dripify connection-only campaign on LinkedIn
Step 3: After connection acceptance, follow up with LinkedIn selfie videos
"My theory is it's more personal... I think LinkedIn selfies are reminiscent of more personal messaging platforms where people feel like it's like their buddy Julia just dropping in to check in how their Tuesday's going."
When running active campaigns, Julia commits to sending 20 personalized outreach videos daily or 100 per week. She also runs a separate automated Dripify messaging campaign targeting past client contacts, doubling down on what's working since many of her clients come from previous relationships.
This systematic approach, combined with genuine relationship building, has helped her consistently win new business without traditional hard-selling techniques.
Remote Team Building and International Recruitment
From solo founder to a team of four, Julia has built a remote-first practice that serves clients internationally. Starting with contract recruiters during her maternity leave, she strategically evolved her team structure based on business growth. Today, her team includes a Director of Talent Acquisition managing client delivery, an Operations Manager, and a Sourcer based in South Africa (hired through Remote First as EOR), all working virtually.
"I employ them through an employer of record, an EOR. And I use Remote First... my entire team is remote. No one else is based here in Atlanta."
This flexible team structure allows Julia to scale based on client needs while maintaining quality delivery through specialized roles - proving you can build a successful recruitment business without a traditional office-based team.
Are you also interested in building a remote setup for your recruitment business?
Julia Arpag Bio and Contact Info
Julia Arpag is the CEO & Founder of tech recruitment firm Aligned Recruitment. We've been in business since August 2023, are fully bootstrapped, have closed over $500k in new business, and are scaling fast.
We specialize in hiring for SMBs (10-200 employees) in the tech industry. We have clients in custom software development, platform management, real estate investment, and security hardware, to name a few.
I'm also a foster parent to two teen boys, a mom to two little boys, a wife, and a proud transplant to Atlanta from upstate NY.
Julia on Linkedin
Aligned Recruitment Website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Dripify
LinkedIn Recruiter
LinkedIn Sales Navigator
Recruiter Flow (ATS/CRM)
RemoFirst (EOR platform)
Apollo
Fiverr
Loom
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn,
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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From working 90-hour weeks in tech recruitment to building a thriving healthcare practice that runs on 50 hours, Maddie Loomis discovered that sometimes doing less is the key to achieving more. After launching Advanced Scope, she specialized in orthopedics and sports medicine recruitment. She doubled her revenue by shifting from contingent to retained search and building the right team while working nearly half the hours.
Maddie is the founder of Advanced Scope and the host of the Healthy Careers podcast. Join us as she shares her journey and the key decisions that transformed her business into what it is today.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:58] From fundraising to recruitment - Maddie's unexpected path into healthcare recruiting
[03:39] Why leave tech? Maddie’s decision to start Advanced Scope
[03:52] Choosing healthcare and orthopedics specialization despite tech background
[15:01] The game-changer: Moving from contingent to retained search
[16:37] Innovative "dating period" approach to client relationships
[27:39] Building the right team: Finding people who share your values
[30:34] Unique co-working approach to testing team fit
[35:56] Creating sustainability: Journey from 90 to 50-hour weeks
[43:24] Leveraging the Healthy Careers podcast for business growth
[45:23] Converting podcast guests into business relationships
[47:21] Future vision: Creating a self-sufficient team
How This Healthcare Recruiter Doubled Revenue with a Simple Shift in Business Model
When Maddie experienced the frustration of losing three months of work when a contingent client suddenly decided to hire internally, she knew something had to change. The reality of contingent recruiting meant competing with multiple agencies and often sending candidates to several practices to maximize placement chances.
"If I'm contingent working on your role, and I know that there's absolutely, you know, like a 15 to 20% chance that I'm filling this position, I'm going to type in where your practice is and look up every other practice within that region that I could send that candidate to."
Her solution? An innovative "dating period" approach that starts contingent on testing the relationship before transitioning to retained. This allows both parties to ensure fit while demonstrating the value of a committed partnership. The strategy proved transformative - doubling her income from year one to year two while improving client relationships and candidate experience.
When presenting retained partnerships, Maddie addresses common client frustrations with contingent recruitment head-on. She helps them understand that without mutual commitment, they're competing not just for candidates but with other opportunities their recruiter is pursuing. As she explains, "It's not about the money. I want you to show me that you're in this with me and that you actually want me to win."
The result? A more predictable business model, higher-quality client relationships, and the ability to focus deeply on fewer, more committed searches. Most importantly, it created the foundation for a sustainable business that serves both clients and candidates more effectively.
Building a Recruitment Business That Doesn't Depend on You
Working late nights and answering Slack messages on her wedding day wasn't what Maddie envisioned when starting her recruitment business. "I got to the point where it was like, okay, either I'm going to burn out and this is going to be short-lived, or I'm going to get the right people on the bus and give them the trust to do the things."
She realized that she had to hire the right team members for her business to be self-sustaining. Here are the key action points she took:
Created a unique "co-working" approach to test cultural fit before hiring
Empowered team with up to 50% commission structure
Built systems that allow people to run their own "mini-businesses"
Reduced hours from 90 to 50 while doubling revenue
Focused on being a visionary instead of doing everything herself
Today, her business thrives on trust, autonomy, and shared values rather than founder dependency. Do you envision your recruitment business to be the same?
Podcasting to Engage with Audience and Future Business Relationships
Madison effectively uses her podcast, "Healthy Careers," to engage with her audience and build business relationships. Here is a summary of how she is doing this:
Madison's podcast allows her to connect with her audience and potential clients on a personal level. She shares insights and experiences that give listeners a better understanding of her expertise and the market. By recording three to four podcasts a week, she ensures consistent engagement with her audience, providing valuable content and building rapport with listeners.
The podcast is a platform for developing long-term relationships with clients and partners. Through the podcast, Madison gets a feel for the market pulse, which helps in better conversations with clients.
Madison's strategy of sending personalized gifts like engraved Yeti cups and gift cards to podcast guests fosters a sense of exclusivity and gratitude. This thoughtful gesture reinforces the relationship and keeps their brand top of mind. Business conversions may not be immediate, but the trust built over time through high-touch follow-ups and engaging content helps convert podcast guests into clients in the future.
Madison Loomis Bio and Contact Info
Maddie has a background in healthcare, finance, and technology as both a recruiter and HRBP. After 8 years in Corporate America, she set out to reshape the typical staffing approach. She is now the owner of Advanced Scope - a boutique search firm focused on permanent, direct hire for Orthopaedic & Sports Medicine private practices in hiring clinical and leadership positions.
Maddie on LinkedIn
Maddie on Instagram
Maddie on X
Maddie on Youtube
Healthy Careers Podcast
Advanced Scope website
Advanced Scope on Facebook
People and Resources Mentioned
Wounded Warrior Project
Slack
LinkedIn
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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How do you prep your business to be growth-ready? What are the key factors you must consider when adapting your business model and processes and hiring the right people when building your business? What would be the biggest challenge when scaling your recruitment business?
We had Amanda Brandenburg as a guest three years ago to share her winning formula for growing her firm to $2M in three years. This time, you'll hear a realistic and relatable story of how Amanda has grown her practice from a small team of three to a growing team of six.
Amanda Brandenburg is the Founding Principal at OpusLex Partners, a legal recruiting boutique servicing law firms and corporate legal departments throughout the country. For over a decade, she was a top producer at two of the country’s largest legal staffing firms, where she provided interim solutions and direct-hire placements for law firms and corporations within the continental U.S.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:27] What is new for Amanda and her team in the last three years?
[08:10] How OpusLex enhanced its business model to align with EOS.
[16:30] What processes have been working well with Amanda’s team?
[21:47] The practical applications of E-Myth.
[27:54] Discussion on things that Amanda and her team are most proud of.
[34:40] Learning to grow the team and hire the right people.
[42:22] Effective collaboration tools and tech stack.
[50:47] Why should working from home be balanced with working together physically?
[53:07] Amanda shares what could be the biggest challenge when upscaling your team.
Systems and Process for Upscaling Your Recruitment Firm
Since we last had Amanda as a guest, she has doubled her team to six. She has adapted his business model to align with the EOS - Entrepreneurial Operating System for Businesses. She shared some of the highlights and changes in how she runs things differently. To adapt her business to EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System), Amanda has been implementing several key changes:
Formalized Planning and Goal Setting: She’s following EOS's structured annual planning, setting a clear mission, vision, and values, and assigning "rocks" (specific goals) to both the company and individual team members.
Shift from Traditional to Team-Based Roles: Amanda moved from a traditional "full desk" model (where each person handled all aspects of recruitment) to segmented roles. This structure now includes designated roles for business development, recruiting, sourcing, and administrative support, allowing each team member to specialize and master their area.
Client Engagement and Differentiated Service: They established a high-touch approach to client relationships by requiring direct conversations with clients before working on any job order, enhancing service depth and client understanding.
Enhanced Communication and Automation: Amanda addressed the complexity of coordinating multiple specialized roles by setting up communication workflows using tools like Monday.com and integrating them with Slack for task updates and real-time notifications, which minimized the risk of inefficiencies.
Systematized Processes for Consistency: Amanda implemented process templates in Crelate for both candidate and job intake to ensure consistency and efficiency. This provides essential information gathered upfront, reducing repetitive follow-ups and training time for new hires.
These adjustments reflect Amanda’s commitment to EOS principles, enhancing her team's efficiency, communication, and service consistency as they scale.
Critical Elements When Hiring to Upscale Your Team
When growing your recruitment business, hiring the right person to fill critical roles can be challenging. Do you go for a full 360-degree or 180-degree model? I wanted to pick Amanda’s brain about her learnings as she started to hire and grow her team.
Amanda prioritizes understanding how a potential team member aligns with their values. “I think going back to those core values in terms of some of our core values, intellectual curiosity, earnestness, relationships first. And so really trying to stay quality over quantity, really trying to imbue those values throughout our hiring process.”
Rather than adhering to a rigid “full desk” model, she has implemented a flexible, team-based structure that allows employees to specialize and focus on specific roles, attracting diverse skill sets and reducing turnover by placing people where they can excel. Her model also enables creating specialized, replicable teams that can focus on distinct practice areas or client needs, such as intellectual property law or retained searches, allowing team members to build practices around their interests and expertise. Additionally, Amanda’s focus on transparent, day-to-day communication enhances team alignment, with updates to revenue and compensation models supporting this collaborative framework. She shared the tech stack they use to collaborate effectively and consistently.
What is the Biggest Challenge In Growing Your Recruitment Business?
What will be the biggest challenge if you set your business up for scale? For Amanda, “I think giving new ideas and systems time to work is challenging. And not having. Or you know, and also like giving myself some grace.”
Amanda’s greatest challenge in building her business is balancing the patience to allow new ideas and systems time to prove their effectiveness with the need to make strategic adjustments if things aren't working. She acknowledges that this uncertainty—knowing when to persist and when to pivot—can be especially difficult. To overcome this, we acknowledge the importance of resilience and an unwavering commitment to the long-term goal, alongside the willingness to assess whether issues stem from the process, the people involved, or just the natural time required for new initiatives to take hold. Cultivating patience and maintaining a mindset focused on progress over perfection are key practices she uses to navigate the uncertainty and keep pushing forward.
Amanda Brandenburg Bio and Contact Info
In 2018, Amanda founded OpusLex Partners to bring a hands-on, customized, and personalized approach back to legal recruiting. At OpusLex, which translates to “legal body of work,” our body of work includes finding the very best for every search.
Amanda is passionate about her work and enjoys the challenges and competitive nature of the business. When she’s not sourcing top legal talent for her clients, you can find her spending time with her husband, their three children, and two rescue dogs at home in Atlanta. She is a graduate of the University of Georgia.
Amanda on LinkedIn
Opus Lex Partners website link
Opus Lex on Facebook
Opus Lex on Instagram
People and Resources Mentioned
Traction: Get A Grip On Your Business, by Gino Wickman
Monday.com
Crelate
The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It by Michael Gerber
Asana
Zapier
Leopard Solutions
Ring Central
Allan Fisher on LinkedIn
Related Podcast You Might Enjoy
TRR#108 The Winning Formula: How to Grow a Recruiting Firm to $2 Million in 3 Years
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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Going smaller to go bigger might sound counter-intuitive, but this mindset helped Tyler Rossi transform his newly launched recruitment business from zero to $250k revenue!
In this episode, you will hear Tyler’s approach to niching down and the strategies that helped him win the majority of inbound clients and establish himself as one of the leading authorities in the metals and steel recruitment industry.
Tyler is the President of American Dream Search and Host of The Recruiter of Steel podcast. He's one of the top headhunters in America for sales talent in the Steel and Metals Industry.
Tyler's story is one of determination and success in the face of adversity, and I’m excited to dive into his experiences and insights today.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:55] How Tyler got into recruitment and why he chose metals as a niche.
[08:07] Tyler’s story of resilience - getting laid off from a six-digit sales job while his wife was 32 weeks pregnant.
[12:44] Difficulties of the first six months of a recruitment business and how niching down became a game-changer.
[17:37] Getting the first client via LinkedIn Automation - Tyler shares his tech stack.
[20:17] Turning it around from zero to $250k - discussion on business development.
[23:53] How to establish yourself as the go-to authority in your niche.
[30:57] Podcasting is an effective engagement tool to go above and beyond.
[38:39] A creative way of using videos to promote your client and strengthen relationships.
[43:55] Work and life integration: How many hours does Tyler work a day to take care of their daughter?
[46:01] What is next for Tyler and American Dream Search?
Go Smaller to Go Bigger - Top Benefits of Niching Down to a Specific Industry
When Tyler attempted to broaden his scope as a sales recruiter - he felt overwhelmed and things did not work out. He recalled how he already established his network in the steel industry and decided to focus on this niche. It was indeed a game-changer for Tyler!
His conclusion is “The riches are in the niches!” He highlighted below benefits and how niching down worked for him:
Reduced Competition: By focusing on the steel industry, he reduced his competition from 26,000 recruiters in the US to only around five competitors in the same industry in his domain.
Authority Building: It was easier for Tyler to add value to the industry and be an established figure in the steel industry through continuous sharing of content and podcasting.
Higher Demand: Targeting a specialized industry can lead clients to view you as a high-value resource, as you bring industry-specific knowledge and connections. Even if you only place 10 candidates in a year with an average of $25k fee, you already have substantial revenue.
Efficient Networking: Focusing on a niche simplifies networking efforts. Tyler concentrates on key decision-makers and candidates via targeted marketing and MPC.
How to Establish Yourself as the Go-To Expert in Your Niche
Tyler's reputation grew as he focused on the metal and steel sector, allowing him to generate trust and recognition in the metals industry. He started his podcast, The Recruiter of Steel, to bring added value to the industry. He also utilized LinkedIn by consistently posting content related to the industry which has gained traction, especially to decision-makers. Out of his 7000 connections, around 75% are in the metal and steel industry.
Consistency in these actions made Tyler a recognizable authority in his niche. As he shared, “As far as an ROI … I would say the majority of my business now, I would say is inbound. Most of it is coming inbound to me. I haven't run an MPC campaign in probably three, or four months because all of this is coming to me and I have enough business with it. It's because I've established myself as that authority. It's brought in multiple six figures for me just doing posting and just interacting on LinkedIn.”
Other Action Items That Turned Around His Business
The first six months of Tyler’s business brought in no revenue. However, he had a breakthrough that transformed it from zero to a $250k profit. That is niching down, and establishing himself as an authority. However, there are also other action items he shared that helped him, which I am sure a lot of listeners can relate to:
Full Commitment and Resilience: When Tyler was laid off, he committed entirely to his recruitment business, even though it took six months of effort without income to gain traction.
Mentorship and Continuous Learning: Seeking guidance, Tyler connected with Scott Tuttle, a successful recruiter who provided critical advice on areas like contract terms and marketing strategies. This mentorship helped Tyler refine his approach, close deals, and streamline his operations.
Effective Use of Technology: Tyler used a tailored tech stack, including LinkedIn automation through Skylead, Sales Navigator, Apollo for marketing, and Crelate for CRM management. These tools allowed him to be targeted and efficient in his outreach, helping him reach the right clients and candidates without resorting to mass emails.
Tyler Rossi Bio and Contact Info
Tyler Rossi is the President of American Dream Search and Host of the Let's Talk Talent podcast (now rebranded as The Recruiter of Steel podcast). He is one of the top headhunters in America for sales talent in the Steel/Metals Industry.
But it wasn't always this way.
For the longest time, Tyler put off going into business full-time. While he had his LLC on the side, Tyler never had the guts to go all in. He had the six-figure tech sales job and the job security and benefits that came with it. He had the house, and the marriage, and his daughter was soon on the way.
Fast forward to September of 2023, Tyler was forced to take the leap of faith he was putting off for so long. He was abruptly laid off from his job. There was no warning, no severance…nothing.
Six-figure paycheck? Poof 💨
Oh, and his wife was 32 weeks pregnant 😳
That next Monday, he fired up his laptop and dove full-time into his recruiting business.
The first 6 months were brutal he made $0.
Rejection after rejection. Set back after set back.
But he never gave up.
Fast forward to now and Tyler has scaled American Dream Search to over 10 clients and has billed multiple six-figures in its first year. He has established himself as a premier recruiter in the Metals Industry and he's just getting started.
Tyler on LinkedIn
American Dream Search website link
The Recruiter of Steel podcast
People and Resources Mentioned
Scott Tuttle on LinkedIn
Alec Borlin on LinkedIn
Sarah Englade on LinkedIn
Related Podcast You Might Enjoy
TRR#230 How to Achieve Rapid Success in a New Recruitment Market
TRR#232 How to Leverage Video Content to Boost Your Recruiting Business
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn,
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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As a recruitment business owner, have you considered how to tap into overlooked talent pools while meeting corporate diversity demands? Our special guest, Emma Freivogel, shares how she built two successful organizations - a charity (Radical Recruit) and a profit-for-good consultancy (B Radical) - focused on placing candidates from non-traditional backgrounds into corporate roles.
If you're interested in combining social impact with business success, Emma's insights on structuring support services and creating sustainable revenue through corporate sponsorship could transform your approach to recruitment.
Emma is the Founder and CEO of Radical Recruit, a pioneering charity that supports companies in recruiting talent from diverse backgrounds, including individuals with prior contact with the criminal justice system, victims of domestic violence, and those facing barriers to work. She is also the co-founder of B Radical, a profit-for-good consultancy that supports businesses in implementing inclusive recruitment practices and developing diversity strategies.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:06] The history of how and why Emma founded Radical Recruit and B Radical.
[05:01] Insights on candidates' backgrounds being advocated for hiring by B Radical.
[16:33] Emma expounded on her philosophy of giving people second chances - knowing about Chan’s story.
[22:23] Interesting story of how Emma got into her field.
[24:39] B Radical’s business model.
[30:11] How receptive are companies to partnering with Radical Recruit?
[32:43] Malcolm’s powerful and inspiring story.
[36:44] What is next for B Radical and Radical Recruit?
[39:00] Emma’s learnings as a business leader can applied to all business owners and leaders.
The Philosophy Behind Radical Recruit’s Advocacy
Recruitment is challenging in general, but for Radical Recruit, it presents additional difficulties. They focus on supporting marginalized individuals often excluded from the traditional labor market. Emma and Radical Recruit advocate for people from underrepresented communities—those who face barriers related to ethnicity, gender, disability, and past adversities such as homelessness, criminal records, addiction, or domestic violence.
You will hear inspiring stories shared by Emma about Channel - a woman who grew up in extreme poverty and violence, with 47 convictions by her early twenties, and how she is now a head Chef in a restaurant.
You will also know about Malcolm - who fell into homelessness as his life turned upside-down when his father passed and how he was able to turn it around.
These stories exemplify Radical Recruit's approach: to show employers the potential in unconventional candidates and advocate for fair hiring practices that embrace diversity.
What This Means for Recruitment Business Leaders & Owners
Emma is doing something fascinating and incredible. Giving second chances to underdogs and advocating for them in the labor market not only gives businesses and individuals mutual benefits but also contributes to a much bigger value to society. Since Emma has been running non-profit and profit-for-good business models for both Radical Recruitment and B Radical, are there transferable learnings that conventional recruitment businesses can apply from a leadership perspective? I echo Emma’s response below:
“I think from a diversity perspective, if we treated diversity as seriously as we do things like financial resilience and mitigating the risk of cyber-attacks and this sort of thing, then we would not have a problem filling roles at any level… I think that leaders could just be more human-centric generally, not, not with regard to the way they view and interact with radical talent, but just people in general. We're all looking for the same things. We all benefit from the same things.”
Would You Consider Diversity Recruitment Services?
A key discussion topic was Emma's emphasis on how recruitment agencies can build sustainable revenue through diversity recruitment services. She reveals an untapped market opportunity that most traditional agencies overlook.
"Unless the executive sponsors this diversity work, unless it's properly resourced, unless there is thoughtful, considered approach unless people are measuring impact and linking it to the business case, the work's probably not going to get done."
Market Opportunity Emma highlights a massive untapped talent pool in the UK: 11 million people with criminal convictions, 14 million with disabilities, and 230,000 homeless individuals. With every executive prioritizing diversity, there's strong corporate demand but few agencies are equipped to deliver effectively.
Revenue Streams The business model combines traditional recruitment fees with innovative revenue streams. Corporate sponsorship packages start from £3k, supplemented by DEI training, recruitment audits, and comprehensive post-placement support services. This creates multiple recurring revenue opportunities beyond standard placement fees.
Success Metrics A client demonstrates the model's effectiveness with a 92% retention rate for diverse hires. Successful placements range from entry-level to £80k senior roles across multiple sectors. The comprehensive support model drives long-term partnerships and repeat business from corporate clients.
The key takeaway is that while many recruiters shy away from diversity recruitment, there's a significant business opportunity for those willing to develop expertise in this area. As Emma notes, "Every executive has diversity on their agenda" - the challenge is turning that commitment into action through proper resourcing and support.
Emma Freivogel Bio and Contact Info
Emma Freivogel is the founder and co-CEO of Radical Recruit, a pioneering charity that assists businesses in recruiting entry-level talent from diverse backgrounds, including individuals with prior contact with the criminal justice system, domestic violence, or homelessness among other barriers to work. She is also the co-founder of B-Radical, a profit-for-good consultancy that supports job seekers from similar communities in securing more senior and skilled appointments, often within the same companies. B-Radical assists businesses in laying the foundations for success or reimagining their usual ways of working through workshops, training, strategy sessions, audits, advisory services, and early career recruitment. By collaborating with the Radical brands, businesses not only diversify their talent pipelines and teams but also enhance their social value and ESG initiatives. Emma's leadership is driven by a commitment to equality and social justice, aiming to create inclusive opportunities in the labor market and transform recruitment practices so they are both welcoming and fair.
Emma on LinkedIn
Radical Recruit website link
B Radical website link
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As a new recruitment business owner, how much do you invest in marketing and personal branding? Is the ROI worth it?
Our special guest, Sarah Englade, explained how she scaled to $1.5m in revenue in 18 months with the help of LinkedIn personal branding. She shared her strategies and how she overcame struggles when creating content, which can be helpful if you also find value in content creation.
Sarah Englade is the Owner & Founder of Monarch Talent Solutions, a boutique executive search firm specializing in senior roles in accounting, finance, and human resources throughout Houston, TX.
Before launching Monarch Talent Solutions in 2020, Sarah gained nearly a decade of recruiting and leadership experience at two global recruiting firms. Between 2012-2020, she successfully placing over 2,800 candidates and generating millions in revenue.
Now, Sarah is focused on humanizing the recruiting process, driven by her firm’s core values.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:42] How Sarah got into recruiting by accident and how she excelled before launching her firm.
[08:15] Understanding contributing factors to burnout in staffing and how to mitigate it early.
[11:11] Keys to Sarah becoming a top producer.
[13:15] The remarkable story of Monarch's launch during the pandemic.
[20:17] Three action items kept Sarah going during the first 6 months of Monarch.
[24:27] Sarah’s book recommendations.
[26:24] Journey and strategies in building a personal brand through LinkedIn.
[36:33] Are you intimidated to do video content? Sarah shares her process.
[41:48] What is the ROI in content and personal brand marketing?
[48:21] Other elements that contribute to Monarch’s successes on top of personal branding.
[54:30] “You always have to be a student of learning”
[56:16] Quick fire questions: Tech Stack and Metrics that matter for Sarah, and keys to resilience.
Three Steps That Keep Monarch On-Track in the First Six Months
When Sarah launched Monarch during the pandemic, things were not as smooth sailing as expected. Most people would think that the first three months would get them positive traction, but for Sarah, it had already been around six months, and still, not much was happening. She started the company without a book of business and minimal business development experience.
If you are a new recruitment business owner, Sarah’s insights on the three things that kept her going can be helpful. Sarah focused on three key things to keep her business going for the first six months:
Self-development and mindset: Sarah dedicated herself to reading books, listening to podcasts, and staying disciplined to work on her mindset and conquer her feelings of inferiority. She focused on personal growth and overcoming self-doubt.
Metrics and consistency: She believed in using metrics to track her progress and committed herself to hitting her numbers. Sarah stayed consistent by posting her goals on a board, reviewing them daily, and compounding her activity to build confidence.
Seeking mentors: Despite facing challenges finding local mentors, Sarah sought out mentors in business and recruiting from other parts of the United States. She leaned on their support and advice to navigate challenges and stay motivated in her entrepreneurial journey.
Strategies for Building a Personal Brand Through LinkedIn
A key discussion topic that resonated with me was Sarah's emphasis on personal branding and her strategies for building a brand through LinkedIn.
“As a new business owner you have to really be very smart with your money. But I always say this to people that scared money doesn't make money. As you know you have to spend money to make it. Like part of my budget and part of what's worked for me and my business model over the years has 100% been investing in marketing.”
Sarah was not a LinkedIn expert, as she had just explored it as recently as she started her business. She also is not as fond of being in videos as many of us are. She even gets a lot of bashers and trolls. Nevertheless, it doesn’t stop her from consistently posting meaningful content!
Here are some takeaways shared in terms of strategies and processes Sarah used for creating and posting LinkedIn videos:
Quarterly video shoots with 20 videos created each time.
Videos based on real conversations with her network to provide value.
Content sourced from suggestions and personal experiences as a recruiter.
Daily preparation: Early morning content creation on the day of recording by reviewing notes and conversations.
Consistency in content creation: Maintaining a positive and helpful tone in videos.
Continuous improvement: Embracing feedback and learning from each video to boost confidence and quality over time.
Long-term ROI from Content and Personal Brand Marketing
How much Sarah invested in marketing and building her personal brand benefited her business tremendously. It leads to client relationship building and trust from candidates that the best headhunter in their niche is handling them. Beyond that, Sarah and I believe personal branding has a more long-term ROI than you can measure. I think that Sarah explained it well:
“I think it varies on what you look at as the return on that investment. So for me, I'm a new business owner. I'm just coming up to four years. You know, many people think there's overnight success when you start any kind of company, especially in terms of staff and space, especially if you have experience. And I'm telling the truth about, you know, branding, you have to have the brand now because the first thing we all do is when we're looking up anything, whether it's a doctor, a restaurant, whatever it is, we google things, right? So we google to see credibility and that builds trust when we start seeing the reviews and people and all that good stuff. So in the very beginning, it is going to seem exhausting. You're going to be like, what is this even bringing to me? Over time, it's going to help people find you. So that's the return. So it's not overnight. There is literally no elevator here to success. You have to take the stairs and this is part of that now. So I can honestly say that in the very beginning, I saw the return almost immediately and then it started to go like this a little and then it started to blow up again. And that's recruiting. It's like this. So the biggest thing for me is the reason why I continue and commit to creating this content. It's because we're in a down market, and we're not staying here. So when the market goes like this, I want them to remember my face, my name, my brand, and my company. And hopefully, with putting out as much content as I'm putting out, they do. So that's the whole return on it, which is making sure that you're staying front and center, no matter what kind of market we're actually in. “
Sarah Englade Bio & Contact Info
Sarah Englade is the Owner & Founder of Monarch Talent Solutions, a boutique executive search firm specializing in senior-level and mid-executive-level direct-hire roles in accounting, finance, and human resources throughout Houston, TX. Sarah serves as an executive headhunter within the firm, partnering with local high-performing companies to grow their teams. She also offers candidates career resources, including resume, interview support, job market trend updates, local continuing education opportunities, and more.
Before launching Monarch Talent Solutions in 2020, Sarah gained nearly a decade of recruiting and leadership experience at two global recruiting firms. In her roles, she was regularly recognized as a top producer, successfully placing over 2,800 candidates between 2012 and 2020 and generating millions in revenue. Now, Sarah is focused on humanizing the recruiting process, driven by her firm’s core values.
Sarah volunteers at Dress for Success Houston, is a Greater Houston Women’s Chamber of Commerce (GHWCC) member and has been a nominee for Houston Business Journal’s 40 Under 40 from 2022-2024. Sarah has also been featured in several media outlets, including Shoutout HTX, Voyage Houston, GoSolo, CanvasRebel Magazine, Houston Made, Forbes Magazine for Houston’s Extraordinary Women in Business, and LFN Network’s Breaking The Silence Talk Show.
Sarah on LinkedIn
Monarch Solutions website link
Monarch Solutions on YouTube
Monarch Solutions on Instagram - @monarchtalenthtx
People and Resources Mentioned
The Compound Effect - Darren Hardy
Fanatical Prospecting - Jeb Blount
Relationships First - Emily Frisella
Claude.ai
Rusty Gates Media
Bullhorn
Dripify
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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As a billing manager, managing your billings and supporting your team and their individual billings can be overwhelming. Our special guest will explain how this can be achieved and what he learned from his decades of experience in recruiting.
In this episode, Mike Stirton discussed two key factors in building a high-performing team: clear expectations and delegation.
Mike is a seasoned recruitment leader who has led high-performing teams within Scotland's Financial & Professional Services sectors.
Mike has excelled in producing some of the best and high-performing recruiters within his sector while running a personal desk of £1m+.
He has recently joined forces with Be-IT and is currently working on launching their new professional and financial services recruitment business.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:06] How Mike got into recruiting and why he could adapt quickly.
[06:21] Building high-performing teams: leading a £3M team of 5 consultants.
[15:40] Overcoming the lows - why Mike at one point hated recruitment.
[20:10] Specific best practices on how to format a great CV.
[27:05] Effective approach to developing other top billers.
[31:02] Mike shares his business model and placement niche.
[37:46] What is a recruitment leader’s greatest achievement?
[41:01] Why sometimes under-projecting works.
[44:20] How Billing Managers should use delegation when supporting and mentoring their top-billers.
[48:40] Redesigning back office operations to provide innovative solutions.
[53:59] The five steps in mapping out your recruitment process.
Key Ingredients to Build High-Performing Teams
A remarkable achievement Mike shared is creating a £3M + team of recruiters (5 consultants) in a niche market. This is amazing considering he is a billing manager creating at least £1m+. I wanted to pick Mike’s brains and hear his insights on what are the key ingredients when building a high-performing team. Mike mentioned at least seven key factors:
Trust: Establishing mutual trust between you and your team is fundamental. This foundation allows team members to feel secure and perform at their best.
Clear Expectations: Be very clear with the expectations for each task. Clearly communicate what is the minimum required performance, ensuring there’s no ambiguity.
Tailored Management: Every team member is unique, and you need to manage them according to their individual strengths and personalities, not a one-size-fits-all approach.
Empowerment and Autonomy: Give your team the space to work independently, stepping back when they meet or exceed expectations. Encourage entrepreneurial spirit and avoid micromanaging.
Skill Development: Focus on developing your team from trainees or junior staff into experts. Break down complex concepts into simpler terms to make learning approachable.
Team Diversity in Skills: Build a team where each member brings a unique skill set to the table, so they complement each other. This helps tackle any challenge effectively.
Learning from Mistakes: Mike highlights that making mistakes is part of the growth process. Learning from errors is crucial to long-term success in leading teams.
Effective Approach to Developing Top Billers
For Mike, his getting big billings is not the best achievement, but rather, when his team members are starting to bill like him: “The best achievement was actually when, you know, some of my other team members were also starting to get to those numbers as well.”
An effective billing manager does not always translate into a good mentor or sales coach. So, what steps should you take if you want to develop your team members to be like you and bill significantly? Mike emphasized the importance of clarity and respect.
“And it's pretty much the way I parent my children as well, so it's no different. So, yeah, that's kind of been the cornerstone. It's just treat people with respect, be very clear with them, be very honest, and take the pressure off them when they're.”
Scottish recruiters tend to use football analogies a lot, so I am sure you will enjoy how Mike described his approach to team development as the same way football coaches approach their teams.
The Power of Delegation
It is not easy to guide a team of big billers while you yourself need to ensure you are producing—that is why many billing managers find it challenging to maintain consistent team performance.
Mike shared his secret: delegation.
He uses delegation thoughtfully and strategically. Here’s how he approaches it:
Delegate for Development: Mike views delegation as providing team members with learning experiences. He emphasizes that delegation is a win-win because it allows others to gain experience while easing their workload.
Match Tasks to Strengths: Mike assigns tasks based on his team members' strengths and preferences when delegating. He selects the right person for each job, ensuring that the task aligns with the individual's skills and mindset. For example, he delegates a report task to someone who enjoys working with spreadsheets, not to the more social team members.
Motivation: He incorporates positive reinforcement by motivating the team members when delegating. This boosts their confidence and makes them feel valued and capable.
Clear Expectations: Mike is very clear about his expectations when delegating, especially regarding deadlines. He sets the task, communicates the deadline, and ensures the person knows exactly what is required.
This approach ensures that delegation is effective, motivational, and aligned with the strengths and capacities of his team members.
Mike Stirton Bio and Contact Info
Mike is a seasoned recruitment leader who has led high-performing teams within the Financial & Professional Services sectors in Scotland. Mike has excelled in producing some of the best and high-performing recruiters within his sector whilst at the same time running a personal desk of £1m+. He has recently joined forces with Be-IT and is currently working on launching their new professional and financial services recruitment business.
Mike on LinkedIn
BE IT website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Bullhorn
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
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How does a recruiter go from new to market to Champions Club in just two years? For Alec Borlin, the answer lies in the power of disciplined planning and relentless consistency.
Alec is a CPA turned recruiter. He started with one of the world’s largest recruiting & staffing companies, where he did extremely well before starting his own firm BGC Search in 2022.
He places accounting and finance professionals with privately held middle-market companies in the Greater Cleveland Area.
Alec recently launched The Recruiter’s CPA which provides bookkeeping and tax services for recruiting and staffing companies.
In this episode, you will hear how Alec structures his day with daily habits and strategies that result in consistent billings. He also shared the concept of having an ideas bank, how to utilize AI when enhancing content, and why LinkedIn is still his trusted platform for lead generation.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:00] How Alec got into recruiting.
[05:36] Early successes in agency recruiting.
[09:58] Discipline and daily actions for success.
[16:42] Launching BGC search - Alex walked us through what motivated him to launch.
[21:19] How Alec achieved $100k revenue in Q1 from inbound leads alone via LinkedIn.
[27:49] Trusting LinkedIn as a relevant platform to get results.
[34:05] Consistent posting by having an ideas bank and how to enhance your content with AI.
[39:11] Alec discusses Recruiter CPA and how it helps staffing and recruiting firms in accounting.
[44:10] The challenges of being a solo recruitment business owner in terms of tasks and time management.
[48:38] What is next for Alec and his team?
Planning and Strategies That Set Alec Apart
In his second full year as a recruiter, Alec became part of the “Champions Club” for two consecutive years despite being new to the market. What sets him apart is his work ethic which includes consistency in planning. Alec sets himself apart by maintaining a consistent and disciplined approach to daily activities. His early career success was rooted in structured habits, such as waking up early, exercising, planning his day the night before, and following a rigorous schedule that included conducting at least 10 interviews and 3 client meetings per week.
Here are the key takeaways from Alec's approach as a successful recruiter:
Consistent daily routine: Early mornings, exercising, and being in the office by 7 AM helped set a productive tone for the day.
Proactive planning: End-of-day planning allowed Alec to focus on specific goals for the next day, ensuring efficiency.
Structured activity targets: Conducted at least 10 interviews and 3 weekly client meetings, keeping himself accountable to those numbers.
Learning from high performers: Alec absorbed successful habits early in his career by observing and emulating top billers.
Breaking tasks into manageable steps: Rather than being overwhelmed by big goals, he breaks them into smaller tasks, which keeps him focused and motivated.
Prioritization and time-blocking: He allocates specific time slots for high-priority activities, ensuring he tackles important tasks first.
Using productivity tools: Leveraging tools like Asana and calendars to track tasks, organize workflows, and stay on top of both personal and professional goals.
Accountability and follow-through: Alec holds himself to a high standard, consistently executing his plans and commitments.
Trusting LinkedIn as a Relevant Tool in Generating Leads
How much do you invest in LinkedIn as a lead-generating platform? Alec shared an interesting case study about how they were able to build more than $100k from inbound leads in the first quarter of this year using LinkedIn.
“Twelve months of consistently posting on LinkedIn and not seeing a result. Right. So that was, it was posting videos, it was posting copy. So just words, just word posts, posting images, carousels, and constantly trying to interact with my audience and give them the insights that they're looking for… All you can do is continue to post and try to provide value to the people that are in your network and then eventually you'll get this random, beautiful message, hey, we have this need.” What was his thought process that made him persistent?
“So I just, I think it's, it's the belief that LinkedIn is a place that will continue to be very important. We see Fortune 500 companies starting to develop their LinkedIn presence and marketing, if you will, on platforms like that. So just kind of trusting that there are people smarter than me investing their time and resources into the platform.”
I encourage you to visit Alec’s LinkedIn profile to see the type of posts and content he shares with his audience.
Do You Have an Ideas Bank?
Somehow related to the topic of consistent posting and content creation, I wanted to pick Alec’s brain on how he can always come up with fresh ideas. He mentioned the concept of an ideas bank. He also shared how he utilizes AI when translating these ideas into content or posts. To summarize:
Alec draws a lot of his content ideas from the conversations he has during the day or moments of inspiration, such as while at the gym. He captures these ideas quickly by emailing them to himself or storing them in Asana or Google Docs. He then organizes these ideas by different content pillars like sales, marketing, and operations. On uninspired days, he revisits these ideas for fresh content.
When it comes to using AI such as ChatGPT, Alec envisions creating a personal "copywriter" by training AI on his best-performing content, allowing it to generate new posts or ideas based on his style and tone. He believes that AI is a starting point and not a replacement. Hence, personalizing AI-generated content by avoiding generic languages and creating a unique tone by adding personal context is necessary so that your content does not sound artificial.
Alec Borlin Bio and Contact Info
Alec Borlin is a CPA turned recruiter. He got his start with Parker + Lynch, now LHH before starting BGC Search back in 2022. He places accounting and finance professionals with privately held middle-market companies in the Greater Cleveland Area.
As a multi-award-winning Senior Executive Recruiter with a Global Fortune 500, Alec has used his passion for recruiting and accounting to place over 100 candidates throughout the United States with large publicly traded companies and smaller privately held businesses, ensuring a sound match for both parties.
Alec on Linkedin
BGC Search website link
Recruitment CPA website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Asana
Loom
Trello
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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As the recruitment industry rapidly evolves, it is crucial to stay on top of the trends shaping its future. In this episode, we talk with Trinette Cunningham and Teresa Delibert about shifts in candidate engagement, social media strategies, and the growing importance of wellness in hiring.
Trinette is the President of NAPS, the National Association of Personnel Services. She has held that office for 9 years and has been with NAPS for 23 years.
Teresa is on the board of NAPS, and she’s here to add her perspective as a recruitment business owner with over 20 years of experience in the industry.
I’m keen to get Trinette and Teresa’s perspective on the recruitment industry from her vantage point as the president of the oldest recruiting association in the United States. Working with their membership of thousands of recruiters, want to explore the trends, challenges, and opportunities they’re seeing in the market.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:39] Trinette shared an overview of NAPS.
[07:23] Teresa’s role within NAPS and how she started in the recruiting industry.
[14:41] Discussion on the current economic and recruitment climate and how NAPS supports its members.
[21:01] Enabling diversity, equity, and inclusion.
[25:26] The size of NAPS membership and the value of their certification process.
[29:06] Emerging trends of opportunities and challenges in the recruitment industry.
[42:53] Shifting from a candidate-driven to a client-driven market.
[45:20] Know about the upcoming NAPS conference.
Emerging Trends - Opportunities and Challenges in the Recruitment Industry
Being with NAPS for 23 years, Trinette’s insight into emerging trends in the recruitment industry is invaluable. As a recruitment leader or business owner, do you want to focus on capturing upcoming opportunities or mitigating future challenges? Below are some takeaways on the emerging trends that Trinette and Teresa shared:
AI Integration: AI significantly improves recruitment by automating tasks like job description writing, reducing unconscious bias, and aiding in candidate screening and interviews. AI helps recruiters become more efficient and data-driven, allowing faster decision-making.
Automation and Asynchronous Video: Automation is streamlining recruitment processes, particularly through technologies like asynchronous video interviews.
Data-Driven Strategies: With immediate access to metrics, recruiters can be more strategic and proactive, leveraging data to enhance decision-making and performance with artificial intelligence.
Passive Candidates: Building long-term relationships with passive candidates (those not actively looking for jobs) is becoming increasingly important across various job levels, not just for executive roles.
Social Media Shift: Recruitment is moving beyond LinkedIn. Companies use platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and even Snapchat to attract younger candidates, particularly Gen Z, reflecting changing social media habits.
Wellness and Mental Health Benefits: Post-COVID, companies are expanding their benefits packages to include mental health and wellness programs, responding to a growing emphasis on holistic employee wellbeing.
Enabling Equity and Inclusion
Trinette and Teresa also shared how they enable equity and inclusion by working with WBC (Women Business Collaborative).
NAPS and Trinette support DEI by fostering collaboration with industry groups focused on addressing gender inequality and promoting women in the recruitment industry. They actively engage in partnerships to provide opportunities for women, including initiatives like pairing women seeking capital with potential investors. NAPS conducts surveys and research across its membership base, sharing valuable insights on workplace diversity and DEI issues within the staffing and recruiting industry. They also work to raise awareness of gender pay disparity and the underrepresentation of women in C-suite roles, while advocating for progressive changes in the industry.
This has been an important topic for me and many of this podcast's guests. Fostering DEI and advocating equity not only brings about more talent and growth options but is also the direction most progressive organizations take.
How NAPS Supports Their Members in a Challenging Business Climate
The National Association of Personnel Services has existed since 1961 and enjoys the reputation as the oldest industry association. I wanted to hear from Trinette and Teresa how NAPS can support its members, especially in some industries where recruiters encounter challenges.
Trinette emphasized the importance of obtaining their certification programs. “So to give specifics on what NAPS can do, we're here to help you navigate that ever-changing landscape. We do offer, like I said, the certification program. That is an in-depth program. And I encourage everybody, everyone who's listening, if you do not have your certification, get it 'cause it will pay in dividends.” Both Trinette and Teresa shared their personal experience in obtaining these certifications and how shocked they were by how much there is to know about the industry.
They also mentioned another benefit of being a NAPS member: keeping them updated through different resources, ATS, and research partners.
In this call, Trinette also shared a conference they will hold next month. She outlined the speakers, topics, and other things attendees can look forward to.
Trinette Cunningham Bio and Contact Info
Trinette is a non-profit & event management professional with more than twenty-five years of combined association development, event operations, and sales experience. In 2005, after a six-year tenure as the Executive Director of the Corporate Event Marketing Association (CEMA), Trinette founded the non-profit and event management consulting company, TR2 Consulting.
Trinette specializes in financial management, membership/attendance growth, social media marketing communications, exhibit/sponsorship sales, and event logistics.
Through her leadership, NAPS has grown our membership, expanded our member benefits, and streamlined management operations.
She is a member of the Pennsylvania chapter of MPI, The American Society of Association Executives, ASAE, and was recently appointed to the Advisory Council of the Women's Business Collaborative Alliance based in Washington D.C.
Her proudest accomplishment though is raising her 21-year-old daughter, Maggie, who starts med school next month!
Trinette on LinkedIn
National Association of Personnel Services (NAPS) website link
Teresa Delibert Bio and Contact Info
Since 1998 Teresa has been recruiting in Rochester, New York for businesses of all sizes and industries such as; Insurance, Financial Services, Mortgage Services, Real Estate, Human Resources, Auto Dealers, and Medical. Currently, she partners with small to mid-sized businesses in the Rochester area to add to their bottom line through customized recruiting solutions. Although recruiting is her second career, she has been responsible for hiring and retaining talent for 20+ years. Her first career as a Merchandise Manager for a large corporate retailer taught her how to run a business and prepared her for her career in recruiting and business ownership. She is a native of Rochester, NY, and has strong ties to the community. She has a BS in Business Management from RIT.
Teresa on LinkedIn
Delibert Employment website link
Delibert Employment on Facebook
People and Resources Mentioned
Recruiter’s Ultimate Guide to Maximize Billings with AI
Helen McGuire on LinkedIn
Jon Krohn on LinkedIn
Danny Cahill on LinkedIn
Matt Walsh on LinkedIn
Related Podcasts You Might Enjoy
TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert
TRR#220 How Purpose-Driven Business Models Help a Female Founder Achieve Acquisition Success, with Helen McGuire
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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“We spend 50% of our lives working… What is crazy is that 8 out of 10 people in today’s workforce say they don’t even feel a connection to their jobs or their employer. Which means that most of us are probably half of our lives feeling disengaged and maybe feeling unfulfilled.”
This is how Charlie Saffro opened her TEDx talk on prioritizing people in your business. As the CEO of a recruiting firm, she gives insightful takes on how a people-first culture can positively impact you and your client’s retention and long-term revenue.
Charlie is the CEO of CS Recruiting, which specializes in the Supply Chain, Logistics, and Transportation industries. The company is based in Chicago and recruits nationally. Charlie founded CS Recruiting over a decade ago and has built it from the ground up into a multi-million dollar organization.
She leads a team of 28 talented recruiters, emphasizing a people-first culture.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:55] How Charlie fell into recruiting and eventually put up her recruitment firm.
[10:46] Winning and completing a project involving hiring 50 people in the first year of business.
[14:32] Milestones within the 10-year journey as a founder and CEO.
[21:41] Fostering a People-First Culture and its long-term benefits to retention and revenue.
[33:58] The four magnets in building a people-first culture.
[36:25] Transitioning to and embracing the full CEO role by learning to delegate.
[43:47] Keys to developing a strong brand.
[53:33] Charlie’s perspective on the current market environment and how she responds as a leader.
The Four Magnets in Building a People-First Culture
From a business point of view, a people-focused culture benefits employees and contributes to the organization's long-term success and resilience. Charlie gave very specific and pragmatic initiatives that they implement to engage with their employees. What strategies can you implement to foster a people-first culture in your recruitment firm?
Charlie explains that culture acts like a magnet in attracting the right talent while repelling those who don't align with the company's values. She breaks down this concept into four key "talent magnets":
Walk the Talk: The company should live its values daily, celebrating employees who embody these values, like recognizing "value winners" quarterly.
Beyond the Paycheck: This magnet offers more than just a salary; it offers flexibility, benefits, and other tangible and intangible perks.
Intentional Connection: This is about fostering genuine relationships within the team, getting to know them beyond their work roles, and maintaining regular check-ins to gauge team happiness.
Growth Takes Two: This emphasizes collaboration between employees and leadership on career development, ensuring promotions align with employees' personal goals and conducting "evolution meetings" to discuss future aspirations.
Charlie believes that these magnets help attract and retain the right talent while ensuring a strong and aligned company culture.
Practical Steps to Enhance People Engagement
What steps do you currently take to enhance your team's engagement? Does it need a big budget? I wanted to know the actual actions that Charlie implements from a leadership perspective to further a people-centric environment.
A notable takeaway is how Charlie initiates small, personal gestures of appreciation, like handwritten notes or small gifts, regardless of whether there is no budget allocation for these gestures. These small acts of recognition made a significant impact on employee morale and engagement. Over time, this evolved into a formal appreciation and recognition program within her organization.
The program includes a budget for recognizing milestones such as new hires, promotions, anniversaries, and personal achievements like buying a house or having a baby. There's also a "petty cash" fund for impromptu recognition, where any team member can submit a form to acknowledge a colleague who might need a pick-me-up, whether it's sending a gift card, treating them to lunch, or something as simple as giving them their favorite candy (a part of their onboarding process is asking members to share favorite foods or places).
These small, thoughtful gestures cost very little and can significantly boost employee morale and foster a strong, people-centered culture. She advocates for sharing these practices with clients, especially those in small businesses, to help them retain their talent by showing genuine appreciation for their employees. Would you apply the same for your team?
How to Develop a Strong Brand
While the topic of an engaging culture is certainly most interesting, I also wanted to pick Charlie’s brains on building a strong brand and online presence. Charlie is excellent at leveraging her voice through social media and building her brand. She became a recruiter back when LinkedIn was not yet a thing, and she is now utilizing various platforms to build her brand.
You may find the following action items helpful when building your brand:
Start Posting Consistently: Initially, Charlie used LinkedIn like many recruiters—sourcing candidates and building projects without much focus on content creation. However, she began posting content regularly, even though her early posts were generic and received little engagement.
Experiment with Content: After years of posting expected content, such as interview tips and salary negotiation advice, Charlie noticed that her posts weren't resonating with her audience. Inspired by a viral TikTok video her son created, she experimented with more personal and relatable content. This shift in approach proved to be a game-changer.
Share Personal Stories: The viral success of a family-related post gave Charlie the confidence to open up more about her personal life, including her experiences as a mother and leader. This authenticity helped her connect with her audience on a deeper level and drove business opportunities in unexpected ways.
Engage with Your Audience: Charlie found that sharing personal content led to increased engagement, with people reaching out to her with business inquiries and personal messages. This interaction helped her build a community and strengthened her brand's presence.
Post Regularly and Stay Inspired: Charlie developed a routine of posting five days a week, always looking for inspiration in her daily life that she could share with her audience. She emphasized the importance of staying consistent and adapting content based on what resonates with her followers.
Charlie Saffro Bio and Contact Info
Meet Charlie, a recruitment expert with a passion for human leadership, talent acquisition, employee engagement, company culture, and retention. She founded CS Recruiting over a decade ago and has built it from the ground up, managing a multi-million dollar organization and leading a team of talented recruiters with an emphasis on a people-first culture.
As CEO and Founder, Charlie's mission is to create meaningful connections that empower others to discover their full potential. She is a recognized expert in the Supply Chain, Logistics, and Transportation industry and her firm has worked with a diverse range of clients nationwide.
Charlie's goal is to develop long-lasting relationships with clients and candidates, making appropriate and timely career matches for all levels of positions. Beyond her work, Charlie is also a dedicated yogi and encourages her clients and team to practice mindfulness in the workplace and beyond. She believes that personal development and self-care are crucial to achieving success and fulfillment in all areas of life. Charlie is also a proud mother of three teenage boys and actively volunteers with local organizations to support and empower women in the workforce.
Charlie on LinkedIn
CS Recruiting website link
Charlie’s TEDx talk: Business IS Personal - Prioritizing People Pays Off | Charlie Saffro | TEDxWilmette
People and Resources Mentioned
Amy Cuddy TED Talk - Fake it Till You Make it
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Mark on LinkedIn,
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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When he started his search firm, Vince was told that you would make 100 grand in year one if you're lucky. In his first year, he did more than $600k in revenue! Was that just a lucky year? Definitely not. He would not even consider his 12 years in business his best year. What are Vince’s key strategies in achieving this phenomenal result? In this episode, he shares two things: his belief system and his hard work.
Vince Dunne is the President of Dunne Search Group, an executive search firm based in South Carolina. For the last 12 years, he’s specialized in recruiting salespeople for the biotech industry and has helped build some of the most important companies in cancer testing.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:56] How Vince got into recruiting and how he was able to shorten his learning curve.
[10:26] Transitioning from a top recruiter to a recruitment business owner.
[14:27] Overcoming the scarcity mindset: would you be friends with a close competitor?
[16:34] Pulling off $600k in his first year of business.
[25:51] How Vince set up 210 interviews to land 70 monthly placements.
[35:10] Discussion on Retain vs Contingent?
[36:53] Vince reveals his team size and structure.
[42:10] How to pitch an exclusive search arrangement with your client.
[45:25] Topic on tech stack and approach to reaching out to clients and candidates.
[56:03] How to “make a name for yourself.”
[59:12] The biggest adversity Vince faced in his career.
Pulling off $600k Revenue in His First Year
Vince and I talked about his motivation to transition from being a top recruiter to launching his search group. “But I noticed I was getting my clients. Nothing was handed to me, and I thought it was because ‘Vince will figure it out. You know, he's. He's doing well. He's rookie of the year.’ I'm hitting all my numbers every quarter… So I was getting my clients anyway. So why am I splitting my business? And so I felt like I was ready. I've got enough clients out there of people that want to do business with me.” Knowing that he was ready, he took on the challenge of becoming a recruitment business owner, leveraging the skills he learned and the relationships he built over the years. Remarkably, he was able to make more than $600k in revenue in his first year!
I wanted to dive deep into the causal factors of this phenomenal success. Vince believed that he was just lucky. But you will find out as we continue our conversation that there are two main ingredients for his secret sauce: his belief system & hard work. Vince was really competitive and strictly adhered to his no-fail mindset. He would reach out to ten people before 9:00 AM daily to generate leads. These traits enabled him to shorten his learning curve when he was just a rookie and surely contributed to his success as a business owner.
How to “Make a Name” For Yourself
Another topic that resonates with me is Vince’s emphasis on building a reputation and making a name for yourself. Vince’s niche is in the Biotech industry, a very competitive circle, which means that your reputation is a huge deal. Vince shared insights on how he makes a name for himself and that people know him within the sales biotech world.
Reputation Through Results: Vince builds a strong reputation by consistently delivering results, making successful placements, and ensuring client satisfaction.
Client Focus: He emphasizes the importance of caring for his clients, going above and beyond, and even working late hours to meet their needs.
Referrals: Vince actively asks for referrals during and after a project to expand his network and connect with more potential clients and managers.
LinkedIn Recommendations: He sometimes asks clients for LinkedIn recommendations to build credibility and visibility.
Personal Connections: Vince maintains relationships by sending personalized gestures, like Christmas gifts, and ensuring that he remains in his clients’ minds for future opportunities.
Building Relationships is Always Better in the Long Run
Vince shared an insightful take on building relationships versus burning bridges. If you have been unfairly treated by a client before, you will most likely relate to his story. I asked Vince about the biggest adversity in his career, and he shared that it was learning not to burn bridges. His aggressive, competitive nature sometimes led to conflicts with clients, particularly when he felt he wasn’t fairly compensated or recognized for his work.
Vince acknowledges that, in hindsight, there were times he should have taken the high road instead of standing his ground, which ultimately damaged relationships with some clients. He overcame this challenge by realizing the importance of choosing his battles wisely and maintaining long-term relationships, even if it meant compromising on smaller issues. He now prioritizes staying loyal to clients who treat him well, even if it means turning down business from competitors.
A key takeaway is that maintaining a positive image and strong relationships is crucial in the long run. Vince balances his competitive nature with a more strategic approach, focusing on clients who value and respect him while still holding onto the principles that have made him successful.
Vince Dunne Bio and Contact Info
A graduate of the Coles College of Business, Vince Dunne brings his keen business acumen and 12 years of accomplished biotech search experience placing the most qualified candidates in both established corporations and start-up companies. Vince utilizes his proven, unique business model to conduct his search to locate and refer the ideal candidate(s) to meet the tailored, strategic needs of an organization, conserving their company resources and increasing corporate efficiencies.
Vince has helped build out some of the most important companies in cancer testing. Having focused on many areas in biotech, the oncology and women's health space is where we spend most of our time. We pride ourselves on being very well-known and trusted in the market.
Vince on LinkedIn
Dunne Search Group website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Craig Picken on LinkedIn
Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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How did a Certified Public Accountant launch and scale his recruitment business from the ground up? In this episode, you will hear about Troy’s journey in starting and growing his search business! Troy shares the hurdles he faced and his strategies to overcome them and thrive.
Troy is the President of Benchmark Search Group in Dallas. He founded the company in 2018 after working at one of the Big Four accounting firms and more than a decade with one of the largest national recruiting firms.
Troy has built Benchmark’s reputation as a trusted advisor for sourcing and recommending the right accounting talent, specializing in direct hire placement, executive search, and temporary staffing for accounting and finance professionals.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:02] How Troy got into recruiting and was almost fired in his first 90 days.
[08:00] Winning Best Place to Work for Working Parents.
[11:57] Key challenges in Troy’s journey of building his own business.
[21:44] Time tracking exercise to improve efficiency while focusing on value-adding activities.
[24:00] Hiring a VA and fostering an environment where your team members are proactive.
[33:09] Doing things differently to improve the training component.
[42:40] Troy shares insights on what he had learned while running his search firm.
[50:01] Troy’s three most important metrics in running a search firm.
Overcoming Showstoppers When Launching a Search Firm
How a successful search firm owner started his journey is always interesting. Most often, launching your recruitment business can be extremely challenging! Even if you are an excellent recruiter, running your own business is a different ball game; nothing can fully prepare you for it. Troy shared his journey from being a solo entrepreneur to building his own team. Below are the takeaways from the challenges he had, and I am sure you will be able to relate if you are already running your own recruitment business:
Starting as a solo entrepreneur: Troy knew he needed to hire, but it took him nine months to hire his first employee.
Slow initial growth: His hiring process was slow, which resulted in impediments. However, Troy focused on hiring top producers from other firms who were looking for a better culture fit, enabling him to build a core team over time.
Lack of infrastructure or processes in place: When he started to scale, Troy realized he didn’t have enough infrastructure or processes to support his growth. He established SOPs and initiated training programs to create a more scalable structure.
Trying to do everything: Troy became a bottleneck as he felt he needed to get involved in everything. He struggled with the need to control all aspects of the business. He eventually learned to delegate and focus on higher-level activities.
Fostering a Proactive Team Environment for Virtual Team Members
A good sign of a great team is when your members come to you and ask to take stuff off your plate rather than you having to reach out and delegate the tasks. This behavior describes Troy’s team, especially his virtual assistants. How do you foster a proactive team environment with a virtual team?
Troy fosters a proactive team environment, even with onboarding virtual assistants, by treating them as integral members of the team rather than just freelancers. He emphasizes the importance of full integration, where the VAs are not just completing tasks but are actively involved in the business. An example is when his first VA quickly took on leadership responsibilities and even helped onboard a new marketing VA while he was away, demonstrating trust and empowerment.
Another approach is to ensure that the VAs are involved in the company's operations and goals, which fosters a sense of ownership and commitment. This approach allows them to proactively take on tasks and support the team, contributing to a strong and cohesive work environment despite the physical distance and different time zones.
Troy’s Top Three Metrics in Running a Search Firm
Metrics and KPIs are not there to micro-manage your team but rather guide them in ensuring that they are prioritizing tasks that contribute to your organization’s bigger objectives. I wanted to know Troy’s take on the three most important metrics to measure his team’s success. He gave a straightforward response: “Recruiters have to have at least, ten interview screens... And then six client interviews in a week... If you end up with three a week, you're going to end up with one to two placements a month. And so there's a scaling factor to that. Then, on the client side, there are at least two meetings with clients every single week. And then that will be five to eight also interviews a week.”
Troy Ashby Bio and Contact Info
Troy Ashby, President and Founder of Benchmark Search Group, founded the company in 2018 after working at one of the Big Four accounting firms, in addition to more than a decade of experience working with one of the largest national recruiting firms. With more than 20 years of professional service experience, Troy has built Benchmark’s reputation as a trusted advisor for sourcing and recommending the right accounting talent, specializing in direct hire placement, executive search, and temporary staffing for accounting and finance professionals. Troy is responsible for overseeing business development and talent acquisition along with P&L responsibility, marketing, and operations.
Troy’s greatest joy comes from encouraging and helping others, personally and professionally. He has a genuine passion for people, developing long-term relationships while working to make a lasting impact in the Dallas Fort Worth community – Troy takes a servant leader attitude to heart and delivers excellence every day. He has a proven track record of building teams, creating culture, and empowering associates, clients, and candidates to win!
He has a passion for developing long-term relationships in both business and his community. He has been actively involved in various professional and civic organizations around DFW chairing committees or serving on boards including the Richardson Family YMCA, The Family Place, the Dallas Regional Chamber, and the North Dallas Chamber of Commerce. He is a graduate of Leadership Dallas and Leadership Richardson and has also been an active volunteer in March of Dimes, Genesis Women’s Shelter, and the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. He has been a guest speaker for multiple professional associations including the Risk Management Association (RMA) Young Risk Management Association (YRMA) and the Dallas Society of CPAs. Troy has also been cited in industry publications such as the Journal of Accountancy as an expert source
Troy received both his bachelor’s and master’s degrees in accounting from Oklahoma State University. He is a Certified Public Accountant and previously worked in public accounting at Ernst & Young, Arthur Andersen, and Whitley Penn. He and his wife Cayce have two children, Owen and Claire. Troy places a strong emphasis on family which is why he has built a strong internal corporate culture for his employees, centered around a workplace that has been designated as a Best Place to Work for Working Parents for multiple years.
Troy on LinkedIn
Benchmark Search Group website link
Benchmark Search on Facebook
Benchmark Search on X (Formerly Twitter)
Benchmark Search on Instagram
Benchmark Search on YouTube
People and Resources Mentioned
Clockify
Asana
The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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“You can't manage people and lead them at the same time… You're managing a task. You're leading people”
Do you apply the same principles when running your recruitment firm? How do you develop leaders and managers to establish a succession plan when you are scaling it?
My special guest, Trey Hugley, shares his insights on fostering an environment in his recruitment business that not only grew his team in numbers but professionally as well. Trey is the President of Genesis Resources based in Dallas Forth Worth. Trey is a leader in executive search for the insurance industry, with over 28 years of experience.
Having launched and sold a recruiting firm, Trey founded Genesis Resources in 2004 with a commitment to bringing a consultative approach to recruitment. Trey also founded a sister business, Genesis Industries, in 2014, expanding consultancy practices into the Manufacturing, Engineering, Accounting & Finance, and Healthcare sectors.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:21] Trey’s story from being a recruiter to starting his firm.
[06:45] Sharing perspectives on how commitment and exclusivity work with client relationships.
[19:54] Milestones in building an organization - how Trey built his team to 27 people.
[33:09] How do you decide when you have to part ways with a team member?
[46:56] Planning your brakes rather than it creeping up on you.
[51:13] Developing business leaders and managers.
Scaling His Recruitment Firm Successfully
A key achievement of Trey that I wanted to pick his brains on is how he progressed in building his business from just him to having 27 team members. “I could have made a lot more money over the last 15 years if I was just doing it on my own. Mine is an end game. If I build it, I think my mentality is a little different. I enjoy the concept of building. I like the idea of growing something.”
Trey shared his practices when looking for someone to join his team. He mentioned hiring competitive individuals, often with a background in team sports, who can thrive in a competitive environment. He stressed the importance of training and creating an environment where his staff can support and learn from each other. We covered two focus areas when scaling: taking responsibility and ownership for hiring decisions and training to ensure that the right people are in the right roles.
Deciding When to Let Go of a Team Member
It can be challenging to let go of team members. A recruitment business owner could have invested so much time and resources in hiring and training, and the relationship built over time can make it difficult to let go.
Although difficult, Trey explained that it is part of scaling your business effectively, especially if the overall fit of your recruiter is not aligned with your organizational goals. He outlined the following objective factors that can help you decide when it is time to transition your team member to a new career:
1. If they're not meeting their metrics, like having consistent candidate or client conversations, it’s a red flag.
2. Their ability to generate revenue is crucial; it's a concern if they're not producing at least $20,000 a month (in the case of Trey’s organization).
3. Assessing their pending deals and interview activities can predict future performance; if these numbers are low, they indicate potential issues.
4. If they lack the drive and initiative to meet basic expectations consistently, it may be time to let go.
Trey ended it by saying, “We'll, you know, we'll call it a career transition is what we call it. We're gonna transition you. If you can't succeed here, we don't think you're gonna be able to succeed in recruiting.”
Developing Leaders
Engaging your staff and making them leaders is another achievement that Trey is proud of. He has not only grown his team in size, but he grew them professionally into team leaders and managers. He described his approach and mindset well, “There's a certain humility that comes with managing and, leadership, and I think those are two different, two completely different things. Management is the day-to-day, task-oriented. Have you met your numbers? Leading is, how do I make someone better? … But the concept is, you can't manage people and lead them at the same time. Right? You're managing a task. You're leading people, at least in my mind.”
One thing that Trey shared is fostering an environment where asking questions and continuous learning are supported. He said, “I think the biggest piece is that there is no dumb question. And those who are most inquisitive tend to grow quicker than the others in nurturing a lot of that.”
He also shared an integrated approach (egalitarian versus a top-down model), where his staff can always approach him for ideas, scenarios, and proposals. This is except for metrics and numbers, for which clear expectations are in place.
Aside from very competitive compensation, Trey also shared their setup for working onsite and working from home, which offers practical benefits to his employees.
Trey Hugley Bio and Contact Info
An Executive Leader in the Insurance Recruiting Field for over 28 years. Trey Hugley launched and sold a recruiting firm and then began building Genesis Resources in 2004 as the premier example of partnership in the industry. Launched as an Executive Search firm, Genesis quickly moved to a full-service recruiting organization focused on the recruitment of passive candidates for several of its premier clients in the insurance industry.
Trey graduated from Texas A&M University in 1994 with a Bachelor’s Degree in English. Upon graduating, he began his career in Recruitment with a boutique recruiting firm out of college and a focus on multiple disciplines. Soon after, he joined his partner in a start-up dedicated solely to the property & casualty insurance industry. After 8 years, Trey sold to his partner to start a more consultative approach to recruitment; one that was more dedicated toward executive search methodologies with an overall consultative approach that highlighted his passion for successful recruitment and the improvement of individual careers. In 2004, with a focus on “new beginnings” as the name Genesis implies, Trey launched his new company – Genesis Resources. Trey focused on integrating true consultation efforts into recruitment and building relationships with every professional with whom he interacted. Genesis Resources today focuses on passive candidate recruitment while staying at the forefront of the insurance industry.
Trey’s career includes over twenty-nine years of furthering the careers of others. He has developed a variety of leaders and helped them grow to their full potential in the insurance industry. Not only has he achieved this externally, but his current employees have followed in his footsteps, and within a span of the last ten years, Genesis Resources now has several leaders and Executive Recruiters who elevate the careers of all those with whom they come in contact.
In 2014, several of Trey’s HR leadership relationships moved outside the industry. Together, they built a recruitment offering that would highlight the best practices of Genesis Resources while focusing on several new industries; Genesis Industries was born. From a national project to building out an internal recruiting team, revamping an entire sales organization, and multiple other leadership placements along the way, Genesis Industries has become its own “go-to” consultative and recruiting firm with its staff of experts. Genesis Industries has a primary focus on Manufacturing, Engineering, Accounting & Finance, and Healthcare.
Trey on LinkedIn
Genesis Resources website link
Genesis Resources on Facebook
People and Resources Mentioned
Gail Audibert on LinkedIn
Gerald Legrove on LinkedIn
Joel Slenning on LinkedIn
Chris DiNaso on LinkedIn
Related Podcast You Might Enjoy
TRR#171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris Dinaso
Connect with Mark Whitby
Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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Already exploring AI but unsure how to maximize its potential to elevate your recruitment business?
In this episode, our coach and Client Services Director, Julie McGrath, shares how you can further embrace AI when creating content specific to your niche market. Julie shares insights on how you can use AI to drive sustainable growth for your recruitment business.
Julie is a highly experienced coach with 15 years of experience in the recruitment industry, including 8 years as a solo recruiter specializing in Tech and Executive recruitment. Before her career in recruitment, Julie worked in large-scale operations and managed 200 people.
You will also get a preview of an AI Program she designed explicitly for Recruiters and recruitment business owners, including a Training program for recruiters to help with Business Development, account management, and candidate sourcing.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:31] From a graphic designer to a recruitment business owner - how Julie got into recruitment.
[09:57] Retrospect: things Julie would have done differently when starting her business.
[16:02] Developing programs to assist young job seekers.
[26:30] Running a successful RPO model.
[31:03] Common qualities of successful recruitment business owners.
[41:09] Leveraging AI to improve your recruitment business.
[51:31] Creating content specific to your client and candidates’ needs through AI.
[1:01:30] Testing ChatGPT 4.0.
Common Success Qualities of Recruiters and Recruitment Business Owners
Julie’s experience as a recruiter, business owner, and recruitment coach puts her in a position to work with some top-performing recruiters and business owners. She shared great insights and observations on the most common challenges and critical success factors.
“I'm very fortunate to be in this position where I get a peek behind the curtain of the top-performing recruiters. And then also those that are maybe new to the industry that are just starting and trying to define their feet, like we all did it at one point or another in our career.”
Here are the critical success factors that she shared:
Consistency in actions and routines is foundational to success in business and personal growth.
Implementation and Action - Top performers build consistent work routines and stay focused on both immediate tasks and long-term goals.
Work on and in the Business - Balancing working "in" the business (daily operations) and "on" the business (strategic growth) is crucial.
Goal Setting - Setting specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, and timely (SMART) goals is essential.
Accountability ensures continuous progress and the ability to navigate setbacks.
Business Building vs. Job Creation - Successful recruitment business owners understand the difference between creating a business and creating a job for themselves.
Resilience - This involves self-awareness, flexibility, and adaptability.
Self-Awareness and Adaptability - Adapting to changes and being open to new approaches can lead to sustained success.
Julie believes these key factors can help business owners achieve high performance, build sustainable businesses, and effectively navigate industry challenges.
Leveraging AI to Enhance Your Recruitment Business
During our Live Summit in Edinburgh last year, Julie delivered a fascinating session on leveraging AI to improve recruitment businesses. ChatGPT was pretty new at that time, and she was able to provide an amazing take on why the recruitment community needs to embrace AI.
The world will look so different in the next 3-5 years, and I think that understanding AI as early as now can enable recruiters to contribute a more profound impact to their industries. Julie and I discussed her passion for AI, and how it can help recruiters and business owners further engage with their clients and candidates.
Julie pointed out that AI isn’t a new player on the field; it’s just that Generative AI, ChatGPT, and OpenAI have recently brought it into the limelight. She explained that while AI has been used for decades, primarily in automation, it’s now becoming more accessible to individuals and small businesses.
Julie’s passion for AI is driven by its potential to revolutionize the recruitment industry, and she believes that getting ahead of the curve will have a more positive impact. Julie underscored that even small businesses can compete effectively by creating targeted content and using AI to understand and meet the needs of their clients and candidates.
If you want to know more about how we can integrate AI into our recruitment process, you may check the link below for a free training session developed by Juli and our colleague Leanne.
Creating AI Content That Is Specific to Your Client and Candidate Needs
Julie also touched upon creating content with AI while focusing on providing a great experience for your clients and candidates. This is how she puts it: “And if you can spend your time and your skills more focused on providing a great experience for your clients and your candidate, using the emotional intelligence side of things that can't be replaced by AI just yet, and being able to use AI as a crutch to make you work faster and smarter with the data-driven insights and information that it can give you, I can only see this being a positive change in our world and the world of recruiting overall.”
She outlined a straightforward process when creating AI content with a human touch:
Create your brand guidelines and support your content creation through data and insights.
Understanding your clients - what they look for and what they want to consume will enable you to make data-driven decisions.
Based on these data and insights, you are creating content for a specific person, nation, and target audience, instead of creating content for ‘everybody.
Julie McGrath Bio and Contact Info
Julie McGrath is a highly experienced coach and conducts our 1-2-1 monthly calls with members. She has 15 years of experience in the recruitment industry both in large-scale operations and running a solopreneur agency specializing in Tech and Executive recruitment.
She is an active STEM ambassador and panel judge for various socio-economic and diversity initiatives. She currently manages her own digital skills agency that supports businesses to embrace new technological processes and upskill staff for the new digital world of work.
Julie is also an NLP practitioner and this means she can help business owners break through mental and physical barriers so they can live a life of abundance and release the restrictions of mediocrity. Julie is well versed in helping recruitment business owners with business burnout, stress, loss of purpose and direction, and also those business owners who are doing well and want to continue achieving and attracting success into their lives.
Julie on LinkedIn
Access to Free Training on AI: Recruitmentcoach.com/AI
Comprehensive Program on How to Recruit Smarter with AI
People and Resources Mentioned
ChatGPT
Fireflies
Otter
Google Gemini
Recruitment Coach Live Summit in Florida Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
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In this episode, we dive into the challenges and rewards of managing enterprise clients. Drawing from over two decades of experience in the Recruitment & Executive Search Industry, Gina Matteson shares her learnings from handling large-scale clients effectively. Gina and I discussed strategies for effective stakeholder management, navigating complex challenges, and delivering exceptional value.
Gina is the Founder & CEO of GemTek Recruiting. They strategically partner with clients in Connective Intelligence is our groundbreaking recruitment solution that combines the power of advanced AI with a reliable commitment to genuine human interaction.
With over two decades of hands-on sales & recruiting experience in Canada & the US, Gina's passionate approach to work is underscored by an unwavering commitment to prioritizing relationships above all else.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:35] How Gina found her way into the recruiting world.
[03:38] What led Gina to start her own business?
[05:18] Enterprise Insights: Valuable lessons Gina learned from working with big clients.
[16:14] How Gina tackled a major challenge—a 15% pay rate cut.
[23:06] GemTek's Rollercoaster Ride: The highs and lows of launching Gemtek.
[26:36] Gina’s unique recruitment strategy, blends AI with a personal touch.
[34:26] A dive into Gina's book and the toughest battles she faced.
$25 Million Annual Billings for a Single Enterprise Client
Gina’s diverse experience working with enterprises like American Express, Honeywell, and Google puts her in a great position to offer perspectives and strategies when working with large clients. She highlighted her experience working for a $2B organization, American Express. She shared what led to her success, which includes annually bringing in $25m in revenue for the client.
One key component is bringing people together, communicating, and bridging the gap between large organizations within the organization. Gina said, “Bringing those groups together and kind of bridging that gap, regular meetings, I would often bring different stakeholders together and actually host a meeting within the organization because one group could be asking for something and then another group, it doesn't work with them.”
You will also hear about the biggest challenges she faced when she had to undergo an audit stating that she owed $10m from her client and how she dealt with a 15% pay cut that also affected her subcontractors. Her stories are not only inspiring but also reminders of the importance of thinking on your feet, being organized, and transparent stakeholder management.
AI Meets Empathy: Extensively Utilizing AI Without Sacrificing the Human Element
A GemTek methodology is pragmatically utilizing AI. Gina shared how AI helps in initial resume sifting, and narrowing down candidates for interviews. They also shared their tools, such as ChatGPT and other ATS (Applicants Tracking System). They balance technology use by advocating the importance of the human element. During in-depth interviews, personality, and technical assessments, Gina believes that “in recruiting, the human element for me and for my organization can never take a backseat to anything.”
Do you have the same approach when it comes to AI?
A Dive into Gina’s Book and Her Story of Resilience
It is not directly related to recruitment, but we also touched upon Gina’s story of resilience and the most significant adversities that she had to navigate. She shared what inspired her to write her semi-autobiographical novel, A Thousand Masks. Aside from professional challenges, Gina also opened up about a deeply personal story of resilience that has shaped her life and her business. Listening to her journey can remind us that we can turn adversity into strength and use our experiences to help others.
Our Sponsor
This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro
i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained
Gina Matteson Bio and Contact Info
Gina Matteson is a seasoned thought leader celebrated for her triumphs in sales and recruiting within the Recruitment & Executive Search Industry. With over two decades of hands-on experience in Canada and the US, Gina's passionate approach to work is underscored by an unwavering commitment to prioritizing relationships. Her consultative methodology ensures clients, candidates, and employees receive the respect they deserve while collaboratively crafting tailored solutions. As the Founder & CEO of GemTek, she leads a professional services and recruitment firm with a rich legacy on both sides of the border, known for its transparent and partnership-driven approach. Beyond her professional achievements, Gina is an inspiring entrepreneur and acclaimed #1 International Best Selling author, advocating for personal growth and resilience through her novel, "A Thousand Masks." With remarkable tenacity and creative vision, Gina Matteson is a force making a lasting impact in both the business and literary worlds.
Gina on LinkedIn
Gina’s website link
GemTek website link
GemTek on Facebook
GemTek on Instagram
People and Resources Mentioned
A Thousand Masks, by Gina Matteson
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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Have you ever wondered how a top-performing recruiter becomes a firm owner? Katharine Wilcox, President of Resource Mosaic, shares her journey. After joining the firm in 2011, Katharine took over the business in 2022.
In this episode, she discusses her transition from director to owner, her challenges and the strategies that drove her success in executive search. Whether you’re a recruiter considering firm ownership or looking to boost your performance, Katharine’s insights on building trust, hustling, and executing in the competitive world of accounting and finance recruitment are not to be missed.
With a background in entertainment and accounting, Katharine boasts a proven track record of connecting top talent with growth opportunities. Katharine is a member of the Pinnacle Society, a fantastic group of recruiters who are among the top producers in the United States.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:58] Katharine’s background in a talent agency and how she went into recruiting.
[06:47] Discussion on how Katharine transitioned from being a director to becoming a business owner.
[19:43] Building teams that drive company growth.
[25:36] What is the secret to building trust with your clients and candidates?
[32:25] Why Katharine loves MPC marketing and her process.
[39:54] Initiating conversations with hard-to-reach roles.
[47:04] What a support team looks like for big billers.
[50:11] Quick Q&A on Katharine’s operational structure and business model.
[52:55] Katharine reveals the biggest challenges she had to face as a recruiter.
Three Key Elements When Building Effective Teams to Drive Company Growth
One key highlight in my conversation with Katharine is how she builds trust with clients and candidates when building teams in key projects. She fondly recalls how her first hires eventually became CEO and CFO, which makes her extremely proud. “So if I get a certain number, hey, we're looking for these, I just have to go find that soft skills, that personality, that desire, that career drive, whatever it is that they're looking for that will help drive the company's growth and change and hopefully last for a really long time.”
Katharine shared three critical elements when building an effective team that drives the company’s growth:
Building trust - she emphasized the importance of understanding client needs and having honest conversations.
Hustle - Katharine encourages showing up every day and committing to the craft..
Delivery & Execution - Katharine values getting the job done quickly and efficiently.
She concluded, “ But, yeah, it's, that combination of trust and hustle, delivery and execution is just such an important piece to what we do on a daily basis.”
Initiating Conversations with Hard-to-Reach Roles
Some recruiters struggle to reach hard-to-reach roles, such as CEOs and portfolio owners. This may only sometimes be the case for Katharine. When we discussed her approach to MPC Marketing, I learned that it enables her to connect with key roles like board members and CEOs. She shared a few tips on how she does this.
She shared that the caliber of talent will always get you the conversation. She thinks working with good talent (MPC) is important as it will likely get people interested. But this is not enough; you also need to get creative in getting your talent information across. She shared her conversation style to build trust, including using her personality and being genuine.
The other thing is the mindset. As we all know, doing campaigns is also a volume game. Katharine is very much aware of this: “A lot of people are never going to answer my phone or answer my calls. And I don't take offense to it. Some people are just not going to like me. Right. They're not going to want to work with me. I'm okay with that. So. But I'm going to keep trying. And you never know. Maybe I'll break through at some point.”
Katharine Reveals Her Biggest Challenge
I love stories of resilient recruiters, so I had to hear about Katharine's biggest challenges in her career. Most successful recruiters face the biggest challenges, and we can pick up nuggets of wisdom from their experience.
She shared how they were knocked out during COVID-19, but that did not stop her from working. She kept on talking to people, marketing candidates, and positioning herself. “So that was, you know, getting. Having the ability to continue to make those calls and show up, even though you're hearing no for six, seven, eight months? It was hard.”
What motivated her to stay in the game and keep pushing? “It was simple. I just knew any day could be the day to make that break. Eventually. I knew the dam was going to break. Right. I knew that people had hiring needs. I knew that people were looking for jobs or were not happy in their current roles. And I just knew that if I showed up every single day and did what I do, that at some point it was going to pay off.”
Our Sponsor
This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro
i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained
Katharine Wilcox Bio and Contact Info
Katharine Wilcox, President of Resource Mosaic, brings a unique blend of expertise and leadership to the world of executive search. With a background spanning from entertainment to accounting and finance, Katharine has a proven track record of connecting top talent with opportunities for growth.
Katharine joined Resource Mosaic in 2011 after 6 years with the Lucas Group as a Senior Partner on the accounting/finance executive search team in Atlanta. In 2022, she took on additional responsibilities and ownership of the firm as President.
At Resource Mosaic, Katharine specializes in recruiting exceptional accounting and finance professionals across the Southeast, while also supporting clients' leadership needs in various functions, including HR, operations, legal, and sales/marketing. Her approach is rooted in navigating complex challenges, identifying hard-to-find talent, and aligning leadership with business objectives. She is passionate about connecting talent and driving growth for companies in Atlanta and across the Southeast.
Beyond her professional achievements, Katharine can be found chasing around her 6-year old twins and serves on the Board of the Atlanta BeltLine Partnership, working to create a more connected and vibrant city. Originally from San Diego, she graduated from UCLA in 1999 with a degree in communication studies.
Katharine on LinkedIn
Resource Mosaic website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Monte Merz on LinkedIn
Nate Zimmerman on LinkedIn
Jen Meyer on LinkedIn
The Pinnacle Society
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn,
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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Multi-hire team-build projects can be profitable if strategized clearly and executed effectively. Where do you find opportunities to engage in multi-hire team-build projects? What should be your main areas of focus for successfully implementing? Our guest, Paul Press, is here to give insights!
Paul is the Managing Partner and Founder of Press & Associates, a leading executive search firm specializing in recruiting top technology talent for private equity firms and their portfolio companies. Before founding Press & Associates, Paul Press built a well-rounded career with experience in an executive search firm and an in-house talent acquisition position.
In this episode, you will hear valuable insights into leveraging experience as an in-house recruiter, applying MPC marketing strategies, and successfully navigating the complexities of multi-hire team-build projects.
Episode Outline and Highlights
03:25 Paul’s recruiting backstory and how he launched his own firm.
06:37 Learnings from working in-house translating to running his own agency.
12:30 When to consider hiring a third-party recruiter from an in-house recruitment perspective.
18:35 Transitioning to Private Equity expertise.
23:11 Two main areas on winning multi-hire team build projects.
35:59 The risks of handling large-sized projects and how to mitigate them.
40:15 Paul shares the story of his $450k fee and MPC strategy discussion.
51:47 What Paul’s MPC marketing strategy looks like.
58:04 Upcoming exciting times for Paul and Press Associates acquisition.
Leveraging Experience as an In-House Recruiter
Before founding Press & Associates, Paul built a well-rounded career in an executive search firm and an in-house talent acquisition position. He has always aspired to set up his own agency, and this experience was a stepping stone that gave him a complete perspective on what a successful search firm should look like.
Paul gave his insights and compared the approach from an in-house to an agency perspective. He emphasized the value of building and nurturing relationships on the in-house side while investing heavily in business development on the other. From an in-house perspective, I also wanted to know the primary considerations when hiring a third-party recruiter. Who are the most successful ones? What companies really did poorly? Paul gave his answer:
“I would say the biggest thing is the ones who took the time to be personalized, to make a very human approach and connection, and who were very empathetic; those were the ones that really stood out. It's amazing how transparent people's approaches are and how easy it is to tell when there's an email sequencing campaign going on, with an email coming out to you every kind of two or three … So it is very easy to tell kind of what's being automated, what's actual human touch and who are people that want to be in it for the long run versus, hey, I've got my monthly targets to hear.”
Two Areas of Focus to Win Multi-Hire Team Build Projects
A key topic Paul and I discussed is his success in doing multi-hire team-build projects. The main takeaway is this: multi-hire team build results from placing a key executive. By ensuring that great relationships are built and the best experience for the executive is provided, a potential opportunity to then build out the team underneath them will likely happen.
This idea came about based on Paul’s previous in-house experience. “I'd say it kind of goes back to lessons learned when I went in-house and was building those relationships and understanding the big picture behind those hires and what those companies were trying to achieve. And that, combined with the private equity space, really kind of mesh well together.”
Paul shared two main areas of focus to be successful in this approach:
Communication - “It's certainly a communication game. In multi-hire campaigns, there are usually multiple hiring managers. So you got to figure out each individual style of communication, building relationships with those people.”
Project Management - making sure you're implementing your standard procedures in terms of market mapping, talent pipelining, and going through your own internal processes.
Paul also shared the most common challenges you will experience in multi-hire team-build projects and the steps they took to mitigate them.
MPC Strategy Resulting to a $450k Fee
An achievement Paul shared with me is how he was able to make a placement with a $450k fee. He made a placement using the MPC (Most Placeable Candidate) marketing approach. Many recruiters will find this part of our conversation relatable because although this may be familiar to many recruiters, some will tell you that you can’t apply MPC marketing to executive recruitment.
We discussed Paul’s mindset on this strategy, and he shared how he executes it. We discussed proactive candidate representation and effective KPIs, such as making 5 introductions daily. We also agreed on this critical point: the goal is not to place the candidate. The goal is primarily to get your foot in the door to start a conversation, demonstrate the caliber of your network and the people you represent, and come to them with interesting ideas that could bring value to their business.
Our Sponsor
This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro
i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained
Paul Press Bio and Contact Info
Paul is the Managing Partner and Founder of Press & Associates. Paul started Press & Associates in 2016 with the goal of building the number one search firm hiring technology talent for Private Equity firms and their portfolio companies. Since its inception, Paul has built close and long-lasting partnerships with numerous globally renowned private equity firms, helping them make key hires in their value creation team and numerous c-suite appointments across their portfolio companies - all within the technology function.
Prior to founding Press & Associates, Paul built a well-rounded career in executive search working for a boutique search firm (Mackinnon Bruce), one of the largest talent acquisition firms in the world (Hays), as well as an in-house talent acquisition position with Murphy Oil looking after hiring key positions across North America.
Paul has a BA (Hons) in Managing Performance from the University of Leeds and is accredited by the Institute of Retrained Search.
Paul on LinkedIn
Press and Associates website link
Press and Associates on YouTube
Press and Associates on X (Twitter)
Press and Associates on Facebook
Press and Associates on Instagram
People and Resources Mentioned
How Clients Buy, by Tom McMakin & Doug Fletcher
Loxo
Dripify
Rob White of Tempting Talent on LinkedIn
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn,
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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Helen joined us three years ago to share how to attract 70% more diverse talent by leveraging DEI - diversity, equity and inclusion. This time, she returns as a special guest to share an amazing feat - the platform she co-founded, Diversely.io, has just been recently acquired. This means more sourcing and recruitment firms can now access the platform, meaning more recruiters and sourcing firms can embed DEI in their hiring process.
What fascinates me more is Helen’s strategies and lessons learned from exiting Diversely.io. She shared strategies and things she would have done differently, which I am sure many of us will also learn from. Overall, Helen believes that the key to success is following a purpose-driven business model.
Helen McGuire is an exited founder, author, advisor, mother, podcast host and DEI changemaker.
Helen is a leading figure in DEI and business strategy and is renowned for her impactful initiatives. She founded Hopscotch. work, the first women's careers platform in the Middle East and Asia, and her journey led to the creation of Diversely.io, a groundbreaking AI platform acquired by The Access Group in 2023.
As the host of The D&Igest podcast and author of the upcoming book 'The Female Scale', Helen's expertise extends to coaching female founders and advocating for purposeful businesses globally.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:50] Helen shares updates on Diversely.io’s acquisition by the Access Group.
[08:54] What barriers do entrepreneurs with diverse backgrounds face when starting a business?
[13:00] Encouraging more women to take the entrepreneurial leap.
[17:33] Walkthrough on Diversely.io’s exit process and how a purpose-driven business model made it happen.
[30:00] Things that Helen would have done differently when undergoing acquisition.
[38:31] Teaser on Helen’s new book, The Female Scale.
Embedding DEI Into the Business Strategy
Diversity, equity, and inclusion are critical in the hiring process. This is essential because it is the right thing to do and a strategic business decision that can lead to more innovative and successful organizations.
I had Helen as a guest three years ago, and I am fascinated by her current position on championing DEI in the recruitment industry. She is a great example of an astounding business leader who advocates equity and opportunity for lesser-represented groups. As a female founder, you will hear insightful perspectives on how underrepresentation affects certain groups and how to empower more women to launch their own businesses.
She is about to finish a new book, The Female Scale, which will provide insights on this issue. “It's not written specifically for women, but it's written with a very female lens. You know, the challenges that you encounter as a woman setting up a business, and there are, you know, so many female-led businesses, startups, smaller businesses out there.”
In this episode, Helen shared an astounding feat: They could exit Diversely.io, an end-to-end hiring platform that uses tech to reduce bias in businesses' hiring processes. By being acquired, she believes this platform will be more accessible to a much larger audience of sourcing and recruitment firms.
Learnings on Being Acquired and Exit Strategies
As a business owner, you may relate with me if you are also fascinated with stories of how exits and acquisitions work. I wanted Helen to walk me through what was involved in their acquisition process. She shared detailed stories of how it started, what was expected, and what happened. She also shared curve balls and how their expertise and networks played major roles in making the exit happen.
In hindsight, here are some learnings that Helen shared if you ever plan to exit or scale your business:
Be more prepared for the level of due diligence you must go through.
Be well-organized: ensuring all relevant agreements and data sheets are in one place.
Invest in good lawyers and accountants - they are absolute lifesavers.
What resonated with me the most was Helen’s idea of the exit. It has always been purpose-driven.
“And you have to kind of, so when you're thinking about selling your business, it's not just about what I need from it as a dollar value. What can I also achieve off the back of that? What does that give me as a founder, as someone who's going on this journey?”
Building a Purpose-Driven Business Model
Building a business, especially focusing on recruiting and sourcing, is not always profit-focused. The vision and mission statements need to be clear, as the impact we can have on people can be life-changing.
This aligns with what Helen believes when creating a purpose-driven business model. This is how she described it:
“And it wasn't all about the dollar value. I think when you set up a purpose-driven business, it's very important to keep profit and profitability in mind because it's hard to create impact without that. It's not sustainable as a business or as an idea. But equally, you've got to balance it with, you know, what am I doing here to solve this problem, and how can I solve this problem? And we would have taken another god knows how many years to try and get to the scale that…”
When Helen co-founded Diversely.io, it was to solve her own frustrations as a female in a male-dominated industry. Her purpose was clear from the start - to help women and under-represented groups gain fair opportunities. This purpose-driven business model contributes well to her current successes and future aspirations.
Our Sponsor
This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro
i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained
Helen McGuire Bio and Contact Info
Founded the first women’s careers platform in the Middle East and Asia—Hopscotch.work—in 2015, Helen has won numerous industry awards for her work and led part of UN Women’s efforts to increase gender representation in the UAE.
To scale the impact of her mission beyond gender, Helen joined the tech start-up accelerator Antler in January 2020 with a vision to conquer the issues around DEI in the workplace through the use of technology. Diversely.io was that solution; a multi-awarded global AI-driven platform built alongside her co-founder, Hayley Bakker, and with the support of industry investors over four years. One of the world’s leading software companies, The Access Group, acquired the platform for an undisclosed amount in 2023 and continues to be integrated across its portfolio.
As host of The D&Igest podcast, Helen now utilises her formidable communications skills to give those who are making a difference in the global DEI space a voice. Professionally, she focuses on ensuring DEI is at the forefront of business strategy and coaches female founders on holistic business strategy. Her first book - ‘The Female Scale’ - is due in 2024, and she speaks and advises globally on the topic of DEI and creating purposeful businesses.
A communications professional of twenty years, Helen began her career in London, achieving her dream role at BBC Radio 1 in her early twenties, going on to produce, DJ and present for the music industry in over
Helen on LinkedIn
The D&Igest Podcast link
People and Resources Mentioned
The Access Group website link
Justin McGuire on LinkedIn
Related Podcast You Might Enjoy
TRR#57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn,
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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Measuring your company's economic influence drives self-motivation and is a powerful tool for marketing and business development. Jennifer Meyer of Govig Executive Search joins us in this episode to give insight on using specific metrics to measure your economic impact and how you can communicate it with potential clients.
Jen has a lifetime cash-in of $20M over her 26 years in the industry. She’s the SVP of Strategic Partnerships at Govig & Associates, where she’s at the helm of business development. She leads the overall team of 27 recruiters, actively front-facing with clients and playing a significant role in surpassing $14M in results.
Jen’s recruitment efforts have been vital in assisting small to mid-size firms, particularly those under private equity, to double in size. Jen’s placements have contributed to an economic impact exceeding $1B.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:51] Jen’s start in the recruitment industry as a college intern.
[10:09] Differentiating techniques in communication and business development.
[19:06] “Speak to them in their language”
[28:02] Training your team to apply the TSI (Targeted Sales Information) approach.
[40:00] How to quantify your economic impact.
[50:41] A boutique recruitment firm’s differentiators against the bigger organizations.
[54:53] Discussion on team development strategies.
[59:18] Jen’s take on work and life harmony.
Quantifying the Economic Impact of Your Recruitment Business
Measuring your company’s economic impact can be significantly beneficial for at least two reasons. The first one is self-motivation; knowing how you contribute to the broader economy can positively impact and fulfill. The second one is on the marketing and business development side. It can help potential clients understand the bigger value you will bring to their organization.
Jen shared how she is able to track her placement’s economic contribution using specific metrics. Her placements overall have contributed to more than $1B in economic impact. She shared their formula: “We always talk about the size of our billings or our business in relation to what were invoicing or what our split was in relation to cash in. But we really should be talking about the salaries of the people that we place, you know, if you were going to relate it that way…Yeah, it does go beyond that, though, where you are at the, you know, again, at the basic level, you are affecting the person, and you're affecting the hiring manager. So that could be a times two, right?”
Here is a takeaway: Start trying to calculate the individual impact you're having in the world, particularly the positive impact you're having for your clients, and try to quantify that. If you have the appetite, even go back in history and try to work it out. But even just starting right now, try and figure out what difference you're making because that's really motivating!
Differentiating in the Business Development Side
A key topic I wanted to discuss with Jen is how she is able to differentiate, especially on the client acquisition and business development side of things. Jen has always been consistently recognized as a top performer in her career. I wanted to pick her brains on her approach when it comes to communicating with potential leads and candidates, and she surely did not disappoint. Jen revealed specific tips and verbiage that you may want also to use. Here are some key takeaways:
Focus on authenticity and listening more by asking curious questions.
Avoid typical questions like “Can I help you?” or “How are you doing?”
Use power phrases such as “Are you in a place where you can talk confidentially?” or “I’ve only got a minute” instead of “Have you got a minute?”
The effective use of body language.
She explained, “Whether you're 30 minutes into the business or you're 30 years into the business, everybody is saying the same thing and overcoming objections in the same way. So what can you do that just sounds different? You know what I mean? And I think if you think about it from a perspective of what that person is going to hear based on their world helps you...And so if you speak to them in their language, they get it.”
You will also hear Jen’s insights on developing her team to elevate their levels on the business development side, which is quite similar to the TSI (Targeted Sales Information) approach.
Team Development Strategies as a Billing Manager
A billing manager is a critical and challenging role in a recruitment firm. The role entails ensuring individual profitability while leading your team to do the same. Jen has been passionate about mentoring and developing her people, so I wanted to hear her methods in helping her team be successful. Jen elaborated on the following topics:
Consistent deskside training.
Real-time feedback and call reviews.
The importance of teaching structure.
Listening for opportunities in candidate interviews.
Using a checklist.
Our Sponsor
This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro
i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained
Jennifer Meyer Bio and Contact Info
Over the past 26 years, Jen has been a guiding force, significantly influencing numerous organizations and professionals. She has generated over $20M in cumulative cash-in, contributing to an economic impact exceeding $1B. This remarkable achievement includes the highest fee, which is over $300k. Currently serving as the SVP of Strategic Partnerships at Govig & Associates, Jen plays a crucial role in propelling the company forward. She's at the helm of business development and leads the overall team of 27 recruiters, actively front-facing with clients and playing a significant role in surpassing $14M in results.
Jen's professional journey began with a 6-year tenure at an MRI office, where she consistently ranked in the top 10% among approximately 5000 recruiters at that time. She then co-founded North Coast ExecuSearch, Inc., where she served as a billing manager for 14 years, maintaining a position in the top 50 out of 750 offices worldwide. Jen's recruitment efforts have been vital in assisting small to mid-size firms, particularly those under private equity, to not only meet but also exceed their growth objectives, with several doubling in size and achieving revenues over $1 billion.
Jen’s work ethic is not driven by the desire for accolades but by a deep-seated passion for mentorship and forging lasting relationships. She believes in the collective improvement of the industry, emphasizing the importance of recognizing recruiters as valuable consultants and ensuring they are compensated fairly for their expertise. Her remarkable career is enhanced with numerous accolades, including her 24-time recognition as a "Pacesetter" Award Winner, her induction into the Hall of Fame and The Ring of Honor within the MRINetwork, and receiving the prestigious Alan R. Schonberg Lifetime Achievement Award for her revenue contributions and character and her acceptance to the Pinnacle Society over a year ago. Not to mention she is very active in a commitment to community service, most recently acting as the President of the MRINetwork Charitable Foundation, where she led the board to raise money for Shriners Hospitals for Children.
As Jennifer shares her insights, her quiet confidence, impressive achievements, and unwavering dedication to talent development serve as a powerful reminder of the influence we can all have in shaping the futures of many.
Jen on LinkedIn
Govig Executive Search website link
Govig on Facebook
People and Resources Mentioned
Katherine Jerald on LinkedIn
Brent Orsuga on LinkedIn
Crelate
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