Episodi
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Bill Rogers
Bill Rogers is an experienced AI entrepreneur whose latest venture, ai12z, gives web content platform owners tools to build digital assistants and chatbots and to run gen-AI-powered searches.
We talked about:
his work at his latest startup, ai12z, which builds copilots designed to power content experiences
his use of the term "copilot" as a generic AI capability, to distinguish it from branded uses of the word
the two main capabilities of their copilot: question answering and ReAct (reasoning and action)
his take on RAG architectures and how ReAct fits into them
how integrating copilots into content and commerce architectures can guide users through complex interaction flows that are connected to third-party services
how to ensure that users have confidence in AI systems and that the systems are technically secure
the technical architecture that underlies their copilot platform
how copilots help write queries to search utilities and other information and knowledge sources to help with tasks like complex product comparisons
the variety of UIs their platform provides: search boxes, knowledge panels, etc.
how interactions with copilots can inform an organization's content planning
the importance of including image AI in this kind of platform, to both better understand the content and create more robust ALT text
Bill's bio
Bill Rogers is a visionary entrepreneur with a deep technologist background in AI and digital technologies. Recognized for significantly influencing the evolution of online experiences, Bill founded Ektron and served as its CEO. Under his leadership, Ektron emerged as a pioneering SaaS web content management platform, serving thousands of organizations globally. After Bill sold Ektron to Accel KKR, it merged with Episerver and became part of Optimizely. Bill then co-founded and led Orbita as its CEO, driving innovation in advanced conversational AI. Beyond these startups, Bill co-founded several other ventures and has had an expansive career in digital signal processing and robotics engineering. Bill holds a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from Boston University.
Connect with Bill online
ai12z
bill at ai12z dot com
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/hJPnAvWXBlA
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 38. You wouldn't try to operate an airliner without a copilot, and you shouldn't operate a modern web architecture one function at a time either. That's the case that Bill Rogers makes for his latest AI startup, ai12z. His company builds AI copilots - in the generic, non-branded sense of that term - that enable robust search and discovery, streamline complex tasks like mulitfaceted product comparisons, improve accessibility, and even help with content planning.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 38 of the Content and AI podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show Bill Rogers. Bill is a longtime veteran in the content management and technology world. He founded a company called Ektron years ago, which was acquired by Episerver, which is now known as Optimizely. He ran a conversational AI platform long before ChatGPT came out called Orbita, and he's currently the CEO and founder at ai12z. So, welcome, Bill. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Bill:
Thank you, Larry. Yes. So, at ai12z, what we're doing is we're focused on building essentially a copilot, enabling websites and mobile applications, the ability to take advantage of AI to help drive experiences.
Larry:
Nice. And that's a nice, succinct description of what you do, but a lot of websites have chatbots or things like that. How does a copilot... Well actually, first let me back up because copilot is an interesting term. I first became aware of it when GitHub did their coding assistant thing, -
Jeff Coyle
Generative AI tools and LLMs bring the need for a new kind of content awareness in organizations of all sizes.
While some have focused on content creation, Jeff Coyle has grown and accelerated his content-marketing capabilities by leveraging the content discovery and operations improvements that AI can deliver.
We talked about:
his decade-long history in working with NLP, AI, and content
his overview of the rapid progression of AI technology over the past two years
the importance to businesses and enterprises of doing a data inventory to understand their unique strengths
the exponential increases in both the capabilities of the AI services he uses and their affordability
the importance of creating high-quality content in this new AI landscape
how to capture your org's knowledge and use it to fuel your content plans
how journalists are crucial for capturing that knowledge
his take on the current state of content-industry employment
the importance of aligning content and its performance to organizational KPIs
the crucial differences between how you wish people would consume your content versus how they are consuming it and how they might be
the ongoing difficulties of marketing attribution and how new predictive models that AI affords can help address them
how a "process inventory" is even more important than a conventional content inventory
Jeff's bio
Jeff Coyle is the Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer for MarketMuse. Jeff is a data-driven search engine marketing executive with 20+ years of experience in the search industry. He is focused on helping content marketers, search engine marketers, agencies, and e-commerce managers build topical authority, improve content quality and turn semantic research into actionable insights. His company is the recipient of multiple Red Herring North America awards, multiple US Search Awards Finalist, Global Search Awards Finalist, Interactive Marketing Awards shortlist, and several user-driven awards on G2, including High Performer, Momentum Leader and Best Meets Requirements.
Prior to starting MarketMuse in 2015, Jeff was a marketing consultant in Atlanta and led the Traffic, Search and Engagement team for seven years at TechTarget, a leader in B2B technology publishing and lead generation. He earned a Bachelors in Computer Science from Georgia Institute of Technology. Jeff frequently speaks at content marketing conferences including: ContentTECH, Marketing AI Conference, Content Marketing World, LavaCon, Content Marketing Conference and more. He has been featured on Search Engine Journal, Marketing AI Institute, State of Digital Publishing, SimilarWeb, Chartbeat, Content Science, Forbes and more.
Connect with Jeff online
LinkedIn
MarketMuse
Twitter
jeff at marketmuse dot com
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/Ij18O07YnYc
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 37. The label "generative AI" has led many to focus on using this new tech for content creation, while the real benefits may lie in different capabilities that LLMs and other AI tools afford. In his work, Jeff Coyle has enthusiastically adopted AI, using it to identify new content repurposing opportunities, to capture and leverage unique organizational knowledge, and to dramatically reduce the costs of content operations, discovering along the way new opportunities for content professionals.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 37 of the Content and AI podcast. I'm really delighted today to welcome to the show Jeff Coyle. Jeff is the co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at MarketMuse. We talked on my other podcast, Content Strategy Insights, a couple of years ago, and I'm really excited to have him back because one or two things have changed since then. Welcome, Jeff. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days... -
Episodi mancanti?
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Cennydd Bowles
Like most designers who work in technology, Cennydd Bowles has reflected at times on the impact of his work and its ethical implications.
After a couple of decades of information architecture and interaction design practice, Cennydd stepped back from his design work to explore philosophy and ethics in depth.
His explorations have led him to extensive academic study as well as speaking gigs and writing on the subject, including a book, Future Ethics.
We talked about:
his transition from interaction design to tech ethics
his origins in the information architecture world and his career, including a stint at Twitter
how we as designers have missed predictable mistakes and patterns that ethicists have long known about
how he got hooked on philosophy and ethics
his 2018 book on the connections between the worlds of philosophy and design, Future Ethics
the ethical issues that can arise in even a seemingly harmless practice like A/B testing
his prediction that AI will in the not-too-distant future permit almost fully automated product development and the risks that that brings
how the difficulties of measuring trust might exacerbate the trust issues that arise with AI
the "magical" nature of AI his observation that "the problem with magic is it's intentionally deceptive"
a new orchestrator role that he sees coming with AI
his pessimism about the prospects for humans over the long term in the AI economy
how Cory Doctorow's notion of "enshittification" manifests in the design and AI world
what he sees coming: "rapidly iterating mediocrity rather than considered excellence"
the power, albeit diminished recently, of employees to influence ethical decision-making within organizations
three books he recommends (links below)
his advice to designers to listen to and connect with philosophers and learn from their prior work on ethics
Cennydd's bio
Cennydd Bowles is a technology ethicist and interaction designer, author of Future Ethics, and a recent Fulbright Visiting Scholar at Elon University. Cennydd’s views on the ethics of emerging technology and design have been quoted by Forbes, WIRED, and The Wall Street Journal, and he has spoken on responsible innovation at Facebook, Stanford University, and Google.
Connect with Cennydd online
LinkedIn
Cennydd.com
Tech ethics books
Future Ethics, Cennydd Bowles
Design for Real Life, Eric Meyer and Sara Wachter-Boettcher
Ethical Product Development, Pavani Reddy
Ethics for People who Work in Tech, Marc Steen
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/MbfK7AnPa-0
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 36. In the flurry of activity launched by AI-technology investment, ethical considerations have been left largely unexplored. Cennydd Bowles is an accomplished interaction designer who has spent the last several years studying and writing and speaking about tech ethics and responsible innovation. What he sees unfolding now concerns him, leading him to predict that the near-term future is more likely to bring "rapidly iterating mediocrity rather than considered excellence."
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 36 of the Content and AI Podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show, Cennydd Bowles. Cennydd is a technology ethicist and interaction designer based in the UK. Welcome, Cennydd. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Cennydd:
Hey, Larry. Well, so let's see. I've just got back from America, so for the last six months, I've been in Elon University, North Carolina as a Fulbright visiting scholar. This is really a large part of my transition, essentially, from the days of UX and product design within industry, and transitioning from that into academia, and particularly philosophy, philosophy of technology, and ethics of technology. -
Sharon Ni
One of the most engaging aspects of generative AI products is their conversational interfaces. This has led many content designers working on AI products to develop skills in conversation design.
Sharon Ni works on both conversational AI products and script-driven chatbots in her content design role at Cisco. She has developed her conversational design and technical AI skills by attending conferences, hackathons, and other events, by networking extensively, and by experimenting constantly with AI and conversation tech.
We talked about:
her work on chatbots and AI tools at Cisco
an overview of the content design guidance chatbot she built
her addition of "conversation designer" to her resume
the evolution of the people ecosystem she works in, which now includes more engineers and data practitioners
the professional development that she's done to prepare her for working with AI and collaborating with her more technical collaborators
how participating in hackathons and other events has helped her advance her AI skills
some of the tools she uses in her work, including spreadsheets, Miro, and Voiceflow
her personal interest in building chatbots and how it's helped her in professional work
the content design repository where she stores the conversational content she works with
how she helps her colleagues understand how to best use AI
her new responsibilities around assessing the technical feasibility of
her advice to "just do it," to start building your own AI projects and connecting with others who share your interest
Sharon's bio
I love writing products. I hate writing about myself. So here’s five quick things about me and my work in AI:
I’m a content designer at Cisco. Currently working on the Cisco AI assistant and Cisco.com chatbot.
I like trying and building different chatbots myself - I recently built a content style guide chatbot that can help people review their copy and find guidelines.
I’m a fierce advocate for content research and like to use data to inform my content design decisions.
I have a background in Psycholinguistics and received a master’s degree from Middlebury College in 2023.
Huge fan of this podcast.
Connect with Sharon online
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/4HgM2hp5hpM
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 35. One of the main attractions of generative AI products is their conversational interfaces. This basic characteristic has drawn many content designers into the adjacent field of conversation design. In her work on chatbots and conversational AI products at Cisco, Sharon Ni has applied conversation design techniques and also learned a lot about the engineering side of AI, sometimes even advising her colleagues on the technical feasibility of their product ideas.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 35 of the Content + AI podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show, Sharon Ni. Sharon is a content designer at Cisco, is doing really interesting stuff with AI and other technologies there. Welcome, Sharon. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Sharon:
Yeah, hi Larry. Very nice to meet you and excited to be here. And as you mentioned, I'm currently working on Cisco AI system for security, which is part of the Cisco AI ecosystem. And I'm also working on a chatbot that's on the cisco.com website right now.
Sharon:
And other than that, I am also working with the Voiceflow team to build an AI powered content design, style guide chatbot that can help our design partners to find the right guidelines and also review copy based on the guidelines, basically. It's not going to write the copy for them, but it will provide recommendations based on the good examples and bad examples that I fed into the chatbot and also the templates. So yeah, -
Andrew Stein
Like many content designers in the fall of 2022, Andrew Stein was concerned about the possible negative impact of generative AI on content and design practice. And his concern was heightened by the large number of content designers on his team.
Since then, Andrew has discovered many ways to apply AI in his content design work, both in conventional digital-product design and in content work on AI products.
He has also discovered a happy additional benefit of taking the lead on AI. His expertise has led to exciting new collaborations and leadership opportunities.
We talked about:
his work as a content design and AI leader
his take on the best ways to use AI in content-design practice
how to maintain focus on the fundamentals of content as you work with AI to create new content or manage and validate existing content, and a tool he is developing to automate this
new content-employment opportunities that he sees emerging
the clean slate on which content people can create their new AI roles and responsibilities
some of his techniques for demonstrating how your content skills can help your AI collaborators:
find opportunities to serve
adopt a learner's mindset
"just do" - experiment with tools on your own
some of the people he follows and resources he has consulted as he has developed his AI expertise:
Noz Urbina
Leah Krauss
the conversation design community, in particular Maaike Groenewege
his encouragement for all content designers to find a balanced approach to incorporating AI into their career
Andrew's bio
Andrew is a Director and Principal Content Designer at a financial services company. He’s led content in smart home, social media, AI robotics, and FinTech. Andrew’s experience includes both consulting, and companies like Lowe’s, Wells Fargo, Truist Bank, and Meta. Andrew is currently focused on the way AI tools serve the content design process, and bringing a content-first approach to the development of new AI products and services.
Connect with Andrew online
LinkedIn
ADPList
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/hxoMSzyDCFk
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 34. When generative AI burst onto the scene there were plenty of reasons for content designers to be anxious. Andrew Stein channeled his concern into a deep exploration of AI tech and how it might be applied in content work. As a design leader, he has discovered a number of ways that content designers can use AI tools, and build AI products. As an advocate for content practice, he has found that his AI expertise opens many new doors for influencing his business collaborators.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone, welcome to episode number 34 of the Content and AI Podcast. I am really happy today to welcome to the show, Andrew Stein. Andrew is an independent content design leader. He works currently for a big financial services firm. He also has his own consultancy on the side, does various content things including AI stuff for folks. So welcome, Andrew. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Andrew:
Yeah, very cool. Well Larry, super-happy to be here and as I mentioned earlier, I've seen all the episodes and get so much out of them every time, so really happy to be here. Yeah, right now, like you mentioned, I'm doing quite a bit of work both for the company I work for and on the side, working in both AI projects and traditional content design projects and really where those two merge together, both helping to build teams and build structure around how we approach AI from a content perspective, which I think is really key with all of this. And also how to bring AI into the work that we do as well as content designers working on traditional products and services as well.
Larry:
Yeah, I think that latter is probably the more familiar scenario for most... -
Anna Potapova
Generative AI creates new opportunities to create and manage content at scale. And scale is definitely required when crafting content experiences for one of the world's largest ecommerce companies.
Anna Potapova is incorporating gen-AI across the span of her work at AliExpress: content creation and management, localization, personalization, and other areas where her strategic-content mind guides her.
We talked about:
her recent promotion to a new leadership role at AliExpress
which types of content are most amenable to being generated by AI
the standards they use to guide the creation and ensure the quality of AI content
the crucial role of content designers and localization experts in the ongoing iterative improvement of AI content at a large scale
how AI enables the democratization of content creation
the large percentage of user-generated content on the AliExpress platform
how AI helps her team with personalization
how gen-AI content helps them scale their marketing personalization efforts
the importance of inviting yourself to machine learning and data science meetings to show the value you bring
the value of case studies when communicating with internal stakeholders to show the value you can bring
the importance of staying grounded in business objectives when developing relationships with your collaborators
how a strategic approach to your work can help your org use AI most productively
how the shift from hand-crafted content to AI content at scale manifests in content operations
her plans to explore how AI can help evaluate content quality and conduct content audits
the concept of hyper-localization, which addresses very specific regional and cultural differences
the importance of proactively engaging with product and tech colleagues to ensure that standards-backed content powers AI products going forward
Anna's bio
Anna Potapova is Staff Content Strategist at AliExpress (part of Alibaba Global Digital Commerce group). She changed team positioning from pure localization to Content Design, built a style guide and a system to maintain it, established standards for AI generated content in multiple languages and improved business metrics while reducing production costs. Anna has been featured on several podcasts (Content Strategy Insights, Writers of Silicon Valley, Localization Leaders), joined UX Evenings @ Google and helped to build a content community in China.
Connect with Anna online
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
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Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 33. When you create, manage, personalize, and localize content at scale for a global ecommerce giant like Alibaba, you need all of the automation help that you can get. In her role as a content strategy and design leader at AliExpress, Anna Potapova is harnessing the power of generative AI tools and techniques to address customers' individual preferences, to help third-party vendors create better content, and to streamline their internal content design operation.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 33 of the Content and AI podcast. I'm really delighted today to welcome to the show, Anna Potapova. Anna is a staff content strategist at Alibaba, the big e-commerce merchant in China. She works specifically for AliExpress. Welcome to the show, Anna. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're doing these days.
Anna:
Thanks, Larry. Happy to be here again. Should I mention that since the last appearance on your podcast, I was on Content Strategy Insights with Arnaud. Since my last appearance I was promoted, I attributed exclusively to your podcast. Thank you so much for having me again.
Larry:
That's too awesome. Thank you.
Anna:
Recently, I've been talking a lot about AI and my team has been doing a lot of work in this area. -
Duane Forrester
SEO has always been difficult, but generative AI takes things to an entirely new level.
Duane Forrester has been immersed in the search world for more than 20 years, including stints as the Product Manager for the Bing Webmaster Program and Vice President of Industry Insights at Yext, where he developed company AI strategy. He also helped launch the schema.org structured-data standard.
Duane offers plenty of AI-specific advice about how to navigate the new search landscape. But he also says that the foundations of good SEO are still grounded in timeless digital best practices: understanding your customers' needs and intentions and consistently giving them good content and helpful user experiences.
We talked about:
his long history as a search-industry expert and leader
his high-level take on the current state of AI
the true benefits of AI for content and how they relate to SEO
the title of his content-and-genAI cookbook: "Common Sense"
the importance of understanding the kinds of content that are resonating with your customers
an interesting AI-driven SEO-localization case study that was presented at PubCon last year that demonstrates the power of understanding user intent
an overview of the knowledge graph tech that underpins the search infrastructure at tech companies and big enterprises
his predication that the future of search will be knowledge graph to knowledge graph conversations between companies and search engines
the rapidly evolving new world of SEO and the imperative for businesses to leverage AI to keep up with the increasing need to scale SEO operations
the enduring importance of providing a good user experience at the end of a search flow
the importance of delivering content in video format into a search landscape increasingly driven by social media
new search behaviors created by Google's Circle Search and AR tech like Meta's Ray-Ban glasses
his observation that search is infinitely more complex than most SEOs can imagine
the secret to search success: attracting attention from consumers, by deeply understanding their behaviors and intentions
his prediction that Apple will launch an AI-powered Siri in September that will thrust ChatGPT into the mainstream
Duane's bio
Duane Forrester is a distinguished figure in the search industry, with a career that spans digital marketing, authorship, and leadership roles at prominent companies such as Microsoft Bing, Bruce Clay Inc. and Yext. His expertise in digital marketing is complemented by a strong understanding of AI/ML, consumer behavior and customer experience, making him a well-rounded and sought-after professional in the field.
During his tenure at Microsoft, Duane was instrumental in the development and launch of Bing Webmaster Tools and Schema.org, focusing on the needs of webmasters and digital marketers. His deep knowledge of search engines and user behavior contributed to Bing's growth and success.
Beyond his work at Microsoft and Bing, Duane has showcased his knowledge as a prolific author in the digital marketing sphere. He has written for most industry publications and his two books, "How to Make Money with Your Blog" and "Turn Clicks into Customers," have provided invaluable insights and guidance to numerous businesses navigating the competitive online landscape.
Today, he, continues to share his extensive knowledge of digital marketing, AI, and customer experience, shaping the future of the search industry and empowering businesses to thrive in the digital era.
Connect with Duane online
LinkedIn
Facebook
Threads
Twitter
Duane's books
How to Make Money with Your Blog: The Ultimate Reference Guide for Building, Optimizing, and Monetizing Your Blog
Turn Clicks into Customers - How to deliver conversions across all online marketing activities
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/OjCH0b3isrs -
Leah Krauss
New AI products like Microsoft's Copilot can be powerful productivity enhancers, but if designers aren't careful they can inadvertently introduce into the product the bias and other hazards that can come with large language models.
As a content designer working on Microsoft's Copilot for Sales product, Leah Krauss helps her colleagues understand and follow the responsible-AI principles that the company has developed.
Leah's advocacy helps her design and product teams create a product that balances the need for transparency about the use of AI with the prerogative to keep customers in flow as they use the product.
We talked about:
her work as a content designer on Copilot for Sales at Microsoft and her advocacy there for responsible AI
how she collaborates with her data science team, which had established a relationship with the content team even before Copilot on other products
the evolution of their AI product-development process
how their design system supports the implementation of responsible AI
the six principles that guide responsible AI at Microsoft:
fairness
reliability and safety
privacy and security
inclusiveness
transparency
accountability
how she advocates for responsible AI on the Copilot for Sales product team
the balance between keeping customers in their flow and being transparent about AI features
the concept of the "human in the loop" and how they apply it in the Copilot for Sales product
the importance in AI product design of always being aware of edge cases and possible misuses of the product
her encouragement to anyone working on AI products to stay curious, ask a lot of questions, and to bear in mind the importance and relevance of our language expertise
Leah's bio
Leah Krauss is a senior UX content designer at Microsoft. She works on Copilot for Sales, Microsoft's AI software for salespeople, where she also collaborates closely with the data science team. She champions responsible AI to anyone and everyone who'll listen, including inside Microsoft and at various UX conferences. Outside of work, you can usually find her reading, or spending time outside with her family - hiking, exploring cities, and hanging out on the beach.
Connect with Leah online
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/VItdSUgzkZE
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 31. The introduction of AI tools like Microsoft's Copilot creates new opportunities for content designers. But as with any innovation, the new technology can be a two-edged sword. For every customer workflow that is streamlined there may also be an opportunity for bias or hazard to get into the product. As a content designer and champion for responsible AI, Leah Krauss helps her colleagues at Microsoft understand and apply responsible AI principles in their product design work.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 31 of the Content and AI podcast. I'm really delighted today to welcome to the show Leah Krauss. Leah is a senior UX content designer at Microsoft where she works on Copilot, which many of you may have heard of. So welcome Leah. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Leah:
Hi Larry. It's so nice to be here. So yeah, as you mentioned, I'm working on Copilot for Sales, which is a flavor of Microsoft Copilot, and that's been really exciting to be in on kind of the ground floor of AI at Microsoft. And responsible AI, which is what we're going to talk about today, is one of my most favorite topics to talk about. I've done some conference talks about it and my coworkers are really tired of hearing me go on about it. I actually serve, no, that's not true. It's only half true. I serve as actually a responsible AI champion, one of the responsible AI champions on my team. So it's sort of my thing and I think it's so exciting t... -
Jack Molisani
As the founder of the long-standing LavaCon conference and the principal at a technical content staffing agency, Jack Molisani gets a deeply informed view of the world of technical communication.
While he sees the opportunities that generative AI presents, he raises several concerns for technical content strategy practitioners, among them the inaccuracy of generative AI content and the inability of AI tools to comprehend subtle human communication clues.
We talked about:
his work as the Executive Director of the LavaCon Content Strategy Conference and at ProSpring Staffing, a technical communication job agency
how a change in the LinkedIn messaging interface inspired him to spend more time at in-person events
his observation that many product features that are promoted as "AI" are actually capabilities that have been around for years
his concerns about the ability to identify and vet the sources that AI tools cite
his assessment of the job prospects for technical communicators in 2024
his exasperation with the decline in quality of applicant tracking systems (ATS)
some of the tasks in technical communication that AI can help with
the inability of AI tools to account for subtle human communication dynamics like facial expressions
how using AI writing tools can misrepresent your own writing ability
how a speed networking event that troubled introverts at a prior LavaCon led to the introduction of calming therapy animals at the event, including a therapy llama
Jack's bio
Jack Molisani is the President of ProSpring Staffing, an employment agency specializing in content professionals (both contract and perm).
He's the author of Be The Captain of Your Career: A New Approach to Career Planning and Advancement, which hit #5 on Amazon's Career and Resume Best Seller list. The first printing is sold out. Watch for a soon-to-be-released second edition.
Jack also produces The LavaCon Conference on Content Strategy, which contains an AI track. The 2024 conference is 27–30 October in Portland, Oregon. Register using referral code LSPODCAST for $200 off in-person tuition.
Connect with Jack online
LinkedIn
LavaCon content strategy conference
Prospring Staffing
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/RsgY89El1Aw
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 30. The rise of generative AI affects every type of content practice, including the venerable institution of technical communication. Jack Molisani runs both a tech comms staffing agency and the annual LavaCon content strategy conference, which he's organized for more than 20 years. Jack brings a deeply informed perspective to the conversation around the introduction of AI into content practice, especially its impact on employment prospects for technical communicators.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 30 of the Content and AI Podcast. I'm really excited today to welcome to the show Jack Molisani. Jack is a legend in the textbook, communication, and technical content strategy world. He's the executive director of the LavaCon Content Strategy Conference. He also runs a staffing agency called ProSpring Staffing. Welcome, Jack. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Jack:
Wow, okay. As you said, I'm running around two spheres. One is producing the LavaCon Conference in content strategy. The other one is running a staffing agency for technical writers and other content professionals. Although we also have a division that does engineers, and there's some crossover there.
What's interesting, and it's almost a side note but since you asked what I've been up to, is I've discovered that it's almost impossible for me to land new staffing clients over the internet anymore.
Larry:
Interesting. What's going on there?
Jack:
It used to be that someone would post a job on LinkedIn, -
Lisa Welchman
Over the past 25 years, Lisa Welchman has established and codified the field of digital governance.
With an enterprise consulting career that spans the emergence of the web, the arrival of social media, and the rise of mobile computing, she is uniquely positioned to help digital practitioners, managers, and executives understand and manage the governance issues that arise with the arrival of generative AI.
Lisa is the author of the leading book in her field, Managing Chaos: Digital Governance by Design.
We talked about:
her career in enterprise digital governance
her concern about the lack of transparency in the existing governance practices at AI companies
an analogy she sees between WYSIWYG and AI tools
the contrast between more mature governance models like the UX field has developed and newer digital practices like the adoption of GPTs
governance lessons that new tech implementers can always learn from prior tech eras
her call to action for technical experts to alert executives of possible harms in the adoption of new technology
the elements of her digital governance framework:
understanding team composition and the organizational landscape in which digital practitioners operate
having a strategic intent
articulating governance policies
establishing practice standards
the range of digital makers she gets to interact with in her work
the importance of accounting for the total business and organizational environment when jockeying for a seat at the table
the responsibility of experienced digital makers and managers to call out potentially troublesome patterns in the adoption of new tech
the importance for digital practitioners of staying aware of how much agency they have right now
Lisa's bio
Lisa Welchman is a digital governance trailblazer with over two decades of experience. She's passionate about helping organizations manage their digital presence effectively and sustainably. Known for her practical approach, Lisa has worked with a variety of clients, from global corporations to non-profits. She’s also a popular speaker and the author of "Managing Chaos: Digital Governance by Design." A mentor and educator at heart, Lisa is dedicated to helping leaders make the digital world a safer and kinder place for everyone.
Connect with Lisa online
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/-UIj0YWxLaI
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 29. Whenever new technology like generative AI emerges, organizations have to deal with both the opportunities and the challenges that arrive with it. It often falls to practitioners like content strategists and designers to alert the C-suite of potential governance concerns that arise with the adoption of new tech. Lisa Welchman sees in this situation an opportunity for digital makers to take the lead on educating their organizations about these important issues.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 29 of the Content + AI Podcast. I am really happy today to welcome to the show Lisa Welchman. Lisa is a true legend in the field of digital governance. She pretty much established the discipline, I think it's safe to say, over the past 25 years. She wrote what I would argue is the leading book on it, Managing Chaos: Digital Governance by Design. But welcome Lisa, and the reason I wanted to talk to you this week is we're right in the middle of Rosenfeld Media is doing a conference on design and AI, and it seems like AI is an area that's really ripe for a conversation about governance. Does that make sense?
Lisa:
Yeah, it does. I will contextualize myself a little bit in saying that digital governance is a really broad term, and my focus is really around enterprise digital governance, how digital governance manifests inside of an organization that's making and putting things online. -
Rob Hoeijmakers
LLM-based conversational tools are revolutionizing all parts of the content ecosystem, including blogs by independent professionals.
Rob Hoeijmakers is an independent web strategist based in Amsterdam. He's using AI tools like Whisper and Perplexity to streamline and improve his research and writing workflows.
This lets him spend more time on his websites' information architecture and improves the business results he gets from his blog.
We talked about:
his work as a web strategist and his multiple blogs
his happiness with being able to delegate tasks to his LLM colleagues
the freedom that AI tools like Whisper give him to research, think, and ideate as he walks
how the abundance of content that AI tools provide helped him abandon his old scarcity mindset around information
the huge time savings he realizes from using AI-generated summaries of transcripts of interviews
how he uses AI tools to draft his blog content
his insight that the real value in his blog is in its information architecture
his preference for using his own images over AI-generated ones
the details of his content "knitting" which stitches together his current and prior content
the analytics tools he uses to track traffic to his blog
how he uses his blog as a conversation starter
Rob's bio
Rob Hoeijmakers is a passionate web strategist with over 30 years of experience. Known for his curiosity and love for recognising patterns, he excels in crafting engaging content and innovative web solutions. Rob writes insightful blogs and is a hands-on builder of content, chat, and messaging platforms. A dynamic public speaker, he frequently discusses web strategy, digital marketing, and AI, always focusing on enhancing user experiences and client success.
Connect with Rob online
LinkedIn
Instagram
Twitter
Web Strategies
Web Strategies (Netherlands version)
Chat voor Bedrijven (Chat for Business)
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/FRaHqLRWT9k
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 28. Many of the stories you read in the media about the adoption of AI tools cover enterprise workflows and other uses in large organizations. It turns out that LLM-based applications can also help tiny, one-person companies. Rob Hoeijmakers is an independent web strategist based in Amsterdam. AI tools like Whisper and Perplexity have revolutionized his research and writing workflows, letting him focus on his websites' information architecture and the business of blogging.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 28 of the Content and AI podcast. I am really happy today to welcome to the show Rob Hoeijmakers. Rob is a web strategist based in, are you in Amsterdam? I forgot.
Rob:
Yes. Amsterdam.
Larry:
Amsterdam. Yeah, in Amsterdam here in the Netherlands. I'm also here in the Netherlands. And also as part of any web professional nowadays, he blogs a lot and we were talking at an event a few weeks ago about his blogging and I said, Oh, tell me more. And I'm like, wait, I have a podcast. Let's talk about it on the podcast. So anyhow, welcome Rob, tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Rob:
Yeah. My name is Rob Hoeijmakers. I'm a web strategist and for content marketing, I blog a lot. It's not only marketing, it's also way of learning and keeping up. I am into LLMs driven chat bots. I did it with the ReSViNET, which is on the, which is RS virus thing. So that's something I'm working on currently. And then of course for my blogging, I write a blog in English, I write a blog in Dutch and I have another one in Dutch on chat for companies. That's what I do.
Larry:
Oh, nice. And the main thing, you do a lot, like all of us these days, but what I really wanted, hoping we can focus the conversation around is the way AI has helped you in your blogging workflow. -
Chelsea Larsson
The arrival of generative AI gives content designers a whole new toolkit. As with any new set of gear, there's some learning that comes with the new capabilities that the tools afford.
At Expedia, Chelsea Larsson is leading her team of content designers into the AI design future with fresh takes on the planning, design, and evaluation skills that designers have always relied on.
We talked about:
her work as a senior director of experience design at Expedia
how she is facilitating with her teams the shift from product development design to AI design
how she has identified new capabilities that AI brings and is incorporating them into product road maps
how content strategists and architects help them decide whether to use generative AI or structured-content methods
their shift from front-end content design to working with back-end engineers and architects
how new LLM-driven applications of conventional content-evaluation criteria permit them to scale up their content design work
their goal of creating good-quality content at scale
how content designers are shaping the future of conversational ecosystems
how AI lets content designers do more strategic thinking, in particular about how to apply their insights at scale
her take on the recent rounds of tech layoffs
one of the new roles that are emerging for which content professionals are well-suited, like the new position of model designer
the origins of their AI program in a simple application of gen AI to partner content creation
how to bootstrap the implementation of AI content practices in your org
how to identify opportunities to help your customers by matching their content use cases with your AI capabilities
her message to content designers: "don't be afraid" and keep learning
Chelsea's bio
Chelsea Larsson is a Sr. Director of Experience Design at Expedia Group where she leads the B2B Content Design team, partners on strategic design initiatives, and builds AI travel tools. Chelsea loves to chat about Content Design in genAI and UX design for travel. She shares her thoughts on both topics via the Smallish Book newsletter and conference stages around the world. Her favorite book to gift loved ones is the delightful Chirri and Chirra series. Her favorite sandwich is a turkey club.
Connect with Chelsea online
LinkedIn
Smallish Book
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/qKr7o5aKQrM
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 27. The arrival of generative AI tools gives content professionals a whole new palette of design capabilities. Learning how to take advantage of these new opportunities so that they can shift from product-development design into content-driven AI experience design challenges many content folks. Chelsea Larsson sees these challenges as a chance for both her and her team at Expedia Group to stretch and grow and to scale their impact as design professionals.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 27 of the Content and AI Podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show, Chelsea Larsson. Chelsea is a senior director of experience design at Expedia Group. And welcome Chelsea, tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Chelsea:
Thanks for having me, Larry. As you said, I'm a senior director of experience design. I lead the B2B content design team at Expedia Group. So we call that the partner content design team, because we work with Expedia partners. I also lead the Generative AI Experience Design Program, which we'll get into later and lean in on a couple of strategic initiatives at Expedia.
Larry:
Cool. And I think one way we were talking before we went on the air is we were talking about the idea of these AI learning machine, and that seemed to resonate with you as a way to describe what you're up to. -
Patrick Stafford
Like most tech professionals, content designers are extremely interested in how AI might affect their work and employment prospects in the future.
Patrick Stafford and his colleagues at the UX Content Collective recently conducted research to explore the impact of AI on the future of the profession, as well as the attitudes and opinions of content designers about new AI tools and practices.
We talked about:
his work as the co-founder and CEO of the UX Content Collective
the high-level findings of his recent research on the impacts of AI on content design
the coincidental timing of the release of GPT-3 and the wave of layoffs in content design and other tech professions
his take on the current content design job market, that it's now a more typical market
comparisons of the job market in 2016-18, 2019-21, and and from 2022 through now
the decline in corporate training budgets recently
his take on working "with" AI as well as "for" AI products
the emerging critical role of content designers in ensuring the ethical use of AI
his observation that most of the new AI jobs being created are being staffed from within companies, not by hiring outside talent
the growing importance stated in many job postings of being familiar with AI tools
the main benefit of AI for content designers: the ability to scale
the important role of content designers applying best practices and design sensibility to gen AI output
how the UX Content Collective curriculum has evolved in response to the arrival of AI
the surprising finding in their research that 80% of people either feel the same or more hopeful about the industry after the introduction of LLMs and AI
the upcoming revival of his podcast Writers of Silicon Valley
Patrick's bio
Patrick Stafford is the CEO and cofounder of the UX Writers Collective. He is a former Lead Digital Copywriter for MYOB, the largest accounting software provider in Australia, and has consulted with several businesses on UX content strategy.
Connect with Patrick online
LinkedIn
UX Content Collective
The Future of AI and Content Design research report
Writers of Silicon Valley podcast (reboot coming soon)
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/ijMMmsWQZKo
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 26. The arrival of GPT-3 and the explosion of interest in generative AI caught many in the content-design profession by surprise. Arriving as it did around the same time that mass layoffs hit the tech industry compounded the anxiety around this new tech. Patrick Stafford and his colleagues at the UX Content Collective recently conducted research to explore the true impact of AI on the profession, as well as the attitudes and opinions of content designers about new AI tools.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 26 of the Content and AI podcast. I'm really happy, today, to welcome to the show, Patrick Stafford. Patrick is the co-founder and CEO at the UX Content Collective, which you hope you've heard of. Anyhow, welcome Patrick. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Patrick:
Thanks, Larry. I'm really glad to be talking to you today. It's always a pleasure to speak to you. So yes, as Larry said, I'm the co-founder and CEO of the UX Content Collective. We started in 2019, and we offer a range of courses and workshops related to UX content. So that could be from a broad beginning in UX writing fundamentals to more specialist skills like content ops or even things like systems thinking, which is a workshop we have coming up, and a range of different courses in writing skills and accessibility, localization, a variety of different skills that content designers or content adjacent professionals may get something out of. So that's what we're doing and of course we have a very big interest in AI at the minut... -
Wouter Sligter
Figuring out how to best adopt new technology is difficult at any time for any organization. AI tech rachets up this challenge to new heights.
Wouter Sligter helps companies understand the capabilities and limitations of LLMs and related technologies to create trustworthy experience-delivery platforms.
Transparency is a key element in implementing solutions that evoke and support the authentic human experiences that underlie these systems.
We talked about:
his background as a UX-focused designer and his shift to conversation and AI design
the growing number of business use cases that his work supports as well as the growing palette of tech tools that he has to work with
how he creates authentic and trustworthy experiences with LLMs and adjacent tech
the benefits of RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generation)
the growing number of platforms that support building AI experiences
the huge failure rate of conversational AI implementations, and how better design might improve the success rate
the importance of being genuinely customer-centric when implementing AI projects
how his background in language and music helps his AI design work, in particular the benefits of "being comfortable with the uncomfortable"
the importance of companies being transparent about their AI implementations
how localization manifests in the AI world
the growing acceptance of chatbots by consumers
his advice to jump into AI now, beginning with due diligence about how you'll implement it in your organization
Wouter's bio
Wouter Sligter is a Senior Conversation Designer and Generative AI Engineer. He has been a committed team lead and has consulted for a large number of Conversational AI implementations, most notably in Finance, Healthcare and Logistics. He has an innovative mindset and a sharp sense for understanding user needs. Wouter always looks to improve the conversational user experience by following iterative design patterns and verifying outcomes through data analysis and user research. Both predictive NLU and generative LLMs and SLMs are part of Wouter's toolkit.
Wouter has a background in ESL and IELTS teaching at language centres and universities in Vietnam. He has developed a strong awareness for language and cultural peculiarities, with native fluency in English and Dutch and good conversational skills in Vietnamese, German, and French.
Connect with Wouter online
LinkedIn
YouandAI.global
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/Ak0liSLR8_0
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 25. One of main reasons that people have taken so quickly to AI tools like ChatGPT is their conversational nature. People like talking to each other - and to computers. In human conversation, we've developed skills and instincts that help us determine the trustworthiness of the person we're talking with. In tech-driven conversations, we often have reason to mistrust. Wouter Sligter helps companies build conversational systems that express the authentic humanity of their creators.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone, welcome to episode number 25 of the Content and AI Podcast. I'm really delighted today to welcome to the show Wouter Sligter. I met him in Utrecht in the Netherlands. He's in the co-working space we both work out of. There, he is a conversational AI consultant. He does conversation design and he's a generative AI engineer. He has his own company called You and AI Welcome, Wouter. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Wouter:
Hi Larry. Very good to be here. Thank you for inviting me. What am I up to? I think you mentioned the three things that I like most doing and that I do most often. I've come from being a self-employed freelance designer really, when in 2018, Facebook started with their chatbots on Messenger. I jumped in and quickly caught on and got a lot of cli... -
Lasse Rindom
Lasse Rindom both consults with enterprises on AI projects and talks with business and technology experts about their thoughts and discoveries.
In both his consulting practice and his podcast conversations, Lasse has discovered both tremendous opportunities and potentially pitfalls when adopting enterprise-scale AI solutions.
We talked about:
his work as an AI leader at Basico,
the origins of his AI-focused podcast, The Only Constant
the unexpected opportunities that arise from the new ability to work with unstructured content that AI affords
his quest for use cases that will help identify new governance structures and operational frameworks
some examples of AI workflows that enable new business capabilities, like the ability for non-coders to query an agent that can write SQL queries for them
his candor in his consulting practive about the possible pitfalls of AI tech, in particular the consequences of LLM hallucinations
how current LLMs fall short of natural language, acting more like "chaotic code"
the unfortunately common belief that generative AI can be applied
one way that he is addressing the "lying robot" problem: using multiple AI agents to correct each other (instead of fine-tuning the models)
the current strategic AI deficit in the market, resulting in consultants pushing untested engineering solutions
the differences between how enterprises and SMBs consume tech solutions
the importance of holistic thinking and staying focused on core problems as you explore AI solutions
Lasse's bio
Lasse Rindom is AI Lead at Basico and a leading expert on AI and automation. He has previously been global technology manager at facility management giant ISS and CDO of Baker Tilly Denmark.
Lasse is a frequent debater on LinkedIn, a Gartner Peer Community ambassador and is host of the podcast “The Only Constant” in which he has deep discussions with global thought leaders on what AI and technology means for us as humans and as businesses.
Connect with Lasse online
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/_fdAweq3Wuw
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 24. I generally focus these interviews on content practices, but I'll zoom out now and then to explore the broader strategy and technology landscape. Today I'm talking with Lasse Rindom, a thoughtful and knowledgeable consultant who works with enterprises on big AI projects. He's also a podcaster who talks with business leaders around the world about AI and tech. In his conversations and consulting work, he has discovered a world of lying robots, chaotic code, and strategic deficits.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 24 of the content and AI podcast. I'm really delighted today to welcome to the show, Lasse Rindom. I'll have him pronounce his name correctly in just a minute. I don't speak Danish, apologies. But Lasse is the AI lead at Basico, a Danish consultancy that works with big enterprises in Denmark and other places, I'm assuming as well. But welcome to the show, Lasse, to tell the folks a little bit more about what you're doing there at Basico.
Lasse:
Hi, Larry, and thank you for having me on the show today. I'm really thrilled to be here. So my name is Lasse, Lasse Rindom. That's how you say it in Danish so people could know that. I always say it's okay to say Lasse. Everyone knows that, that's dog.
Lasse:
I am the a AI leader at Basico, which means I'm defining our go-to-market strategy and our products in the AI space, and we focus very much on the back office function. So that's your legal, facility management, finance, HR payroll and finance IT systems. So I'm defining how we want to approach the AI market in that space and primarily in Denmark.
Prior to that, I've had stints at an analyst firm, very short stint, and I've been a chief digital officer and head of digital a... -
Gerry McGovern
As we navigate our paperless offices and admire our sleek compact computing devices, it can be hard to imagine the impact that our digital experiences are having on our communities and the planet.
Gerry McGovern studies the environmental impact of the digital industry. He has uncovered an alarming story of unsustainable growth, toxic side effects, and human misery, which he shares in his book, World Wide Waste.
We talked about:
how he became an environmental activist focused on the impacts of digital
the phenomenal pace of growth of digital infrastructure
the impact on local communities of the big data centers that house cloud infrastructure
how the compute-intensive nature of AI exacerbates
his observation of the long-standing lack of transparency in the AI industry
the "snake oil sales" aspects of AI
the troubling use of "forever chemicals" by the semiconductor industry
the material impact of computer chip manufacturing
how human over-consumption and the environmental impacts of AI overlap
his advice for actions you can take to mitigate your personal impact:
slow down and use your brain more
think local - local foods, local computer storage, etc.
prefer text over images and other high-bandwidth communications
Gerry's bio
Gerry’s latest book, World Wide Waste, examines the impact data waste and e-waste are having on the environment and what to do about it. Gerry also developed Top Tasks, a research method used by hundreds of organizations to help identify what truly matters.
Connect with Gerry online
Mastodon
LinkedIn
GerryMcGovern.com
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/W5-BMTTEUik
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 23. It's easy to think of digital media and experiences - including our new AI explorations - as ethereal things that magically traverse the computing cloud to enlighten and entertain us. Gerry McGovern is here to remind you that that's far from the case, that "digital is physical." The data centers that power cloud computing are lapping up water and consuming electricity at an alarming pace, and the arrival of AI is accelerating these troubling patterns of overconsumption.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 23 of the Content + AI podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show Gerry McGovern. Gerry is the author of the book The World Wide Waste: How Digital is Killing the Planet and What to Do About It. He's also probably better known ... and I originally met him almost 15, 20 years ago when he was talking about customer care words, and subsequently out of that arose, I think, his work on top task methodology. So anyhow, Gerry's a well-established figure in the discipline, has a lot of important stuff to tell us about the environmental costs of AI. But welcome, Gerry. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Gerry:
Thank you, Larry. It's lovely to be speaking to you again. I suppose what I'm up to mainly is ... In a sense, I never thought it would happen, but I've become a type of environmental activist focused on the impacts of digital and how to use digital in a better way, in a less damaging way. I don't think digital can be green in any sense, but I think it can be used to help more our environment and at least to reduce the damage it causes to our environment. So, that's the main stuff I'm focused on.
Larry:
Yeah. Well, I got to say, I love the idea that you're an environmental activist now, because we need plenty of that. But one of the things about your work that I think has really driven home the point to me that we think of digital as this ephemeral thing happening out there in the ether. It's like no consequence. You can just throw stuff in a hard drive or share something. But this is still connected to the physical world, right?
Gerry: -
Mike Atherton
Mike Atherton is well-known in the content world for his work at institutions like the BBC and Facebook and for his co-authorship of the influential book Designing Connected Content. His latest content project appears at first to be less serious.
Newsbang is a daily AI-produced satirical news show. Its content is based on real historical news but delivered by AI-created stereotypical newscasters. The result is fun, but the process of creating the show has added real-world technical skills to Mike's professional toolkit.
We talked about:
his work as a UX writer and content designer
his experiments with AI tools, including the suite of generative tools he's using to create Newsbang, a completely artificial daily news program
how he accomplished his goal of creating an ensemble sketch comedy vibe
his workflow for the daily production of the "news" show
some of the surprising traits of his news characters that emerged as AI generated them
lessons learned about the cost of producing AI programming, like the costs of prompting
the variety of models he uses to build the show, including open-source models that have more lenient guard rails to permit more edgy comedic content
how he creates his own guardrails to achieve the effect he's looking for in the show while still creating a family-friendly show
how he developed the technical skills it takes to create Newsbang
how his work with Newsbang helps in his day job
his hope that more content professionals will follow him into the AI playground
Mike's bio
Mike Atherton brings years of experience to the UX, IA, and Content Design field, having tackled content challenges at big names like Meta and the BBC. Now, he's focused on developing UX writing systems, exploring the use of AI to do big things with tiny teams.
As well as the day job, Mike is the creative mind behind Newsbang, a daily satirical news podcast that's both written and produced using AI technology.
With Carrie Hane, he also wrote the book ‘Designing Connected Content’, sharing strategies for seamless digital experiences.
Mike lives in the British countryside and loves working from home.
Connect with Mike online
LinkedIn
Newsbang
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/lpDa8szujWo
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 22. Most of the news coverage and social-media conversations around AI and content feel urgent and important. This is serious business, but you can have fun with this technology, too. Mike Atherton has done content work at places like the BBC and Facebook, and he still does proper content design in his day job. Newsbang, his daily, AI-produced satirical news show, has given him both an outlet for his inner comedian and a venue in which to hone important new work skills.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 22 of the Content and AI podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show Mike Atherton. You might know Mike, he's probably best known as the... Well, he's best known for a lot of things, but he's worked at the BBC and a lot of other interesting stuff he's done. He co-wrote the book Designing Connected Content with Carrie Hane, which a lot of people in my world appreciate. But he's now a content designer and creative technologist based in the UK. Welcome, Mike. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Mike:
Well, hey, Larry, thanks for having me on. It's great to be back. Yeah, I'm a UX writer and content designer by day. I work with various product teams in different kind of companies to write everything from the microcopy, the words on the buttons, through to taxonomy and control vocabulary and all the good stuff that we UX writers like to do. And as part of that, for the last few years, I've been dabbling with these wicked AI tools that have come our way and seeing what I cou... -
Elizabeth Beasley
As AI is storming into content design and operations, Elizabeth Beasley is taking a patient and deliberate approach to adopting it in her practice.
Elizabeth works on security and identity products at Intuit, so the experiences she designs have to be reliable and trustworthy, hence her identification as a "risk nerd."
She has also navigated big business changes before, like the shift from cable broadcasting to video streaming, and saw in those transitions the benefits of being a cautious and curious adopter of new technology.
We talked about:
her role as a content designer working on security, identity, and fraud at Intuit
how her background in media and technology have made her a slower adopter of new technology like AI
how being a "risk nerd" informs her concern around reliability and trustworthiness in AI
how her cautious approach to AI adoption may actually put her in a better position to develop trustworthy AI experiences
the new collaborators she is working with as AI arrives on the scene
her work on an industry standards body around new security technology
the utility of having troops back at the fort to keep the old operations running as your org explores new tech like gen AI
how her interest in history informs her approach to change
the inherent risks in being first to adopt new technologies
her "peaceful Wednesday" practice for preventing and coping with stress and burnout
how times of rapid change like this can prompt useful career reflections
the recent evolution of her thinking on the "seat at the table" issue
Elizabeth's bio
Elizabeth Beasley a Senior Content Designer with Intuit’s Identity team. She approaches life with a healthy balance of optimism and skepticism. Because everything is going to be okay, maybe.
She used to have hobbies like performing improv comedy and ballroom dancing. Now she enjoys watching other people doing their hobbies on YouTube.
Connect with Elizabeth online
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/Ny2l_mZgLXQ
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 21. It's easy to get caught up in the frenetic pace of generative AI technology adoption - unless you have already created rituals to help slow your life down. Elizabeth Beasley created her "peaceful Wednesday" ritual ten years ago to bring some calm to her increasingly fast-paced work life. That practice is serving her well now as she and her colleagues at Intuit develop their approach to incorporating AI tools while continuing to deliver trustworthy experiences.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 21 of the Content and AI podcast. I am really happy today to welcome to the show Elizabeth Beasley. Elizabeth is a Senior Content Designer at Intuit, the big financial software company. Welcome, Elizabeth. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Elizabeth:
Hey, it's so fun to be here. Yes, I'm at Intuit. Financial services is my life lately, and I've worked in a fun space. I think it's fun, security, identity. I always describe it to my mom or my friends like, I do the part where you create your account, you sign back into your account, you manage your account and I make that easy for you with content design, they still don't quite understand that, but that's the space I work in and I really, surprisingly enjoyed. I worked in banking previously and got into security and now I'm sort of obsessed with security and identity and fraud and it's a fun, exciting space to work, and also I love it because everyone uses it, so it's very relatable and it affects many, many people. So it has a lot of impact.
Larry:
You can't do anything until you get past that experience that you're designing.
Elizabeth:
Yeah.
Larry:
Then you're in and then you can start doing stuff. But you sort of established your cred. -
Maaike Groenewege
Maaike Groenewege began her content career in technical communication. She is now a leading voice in conversation design for AI.
Maaike draws on her technical writing background in her conversational AI practice, having observed that whether you're writing for humans or designing prompts for LLMs, you have to truly understand your audience and consistently provide clear and specific instructions.
We talked about:
her work over the past couple of years as a prompt designer
how the instruction design principles from her days in technical writing and technical communication prepared her for her current role
how her early exposure to help desk duties prepared her for the many question-answering responsibilities in her current role
how her writing skills, her critical approach to generative AI, and her love of technology combine to give her a unique perspective on conversational gen AI content
how retrieval-augmented generation drawing on high-quality content datasets can help set a base level of knowledge for LLMs
her opinion that conversational chatbots are a transitory stage on the way to transactional chatbots that can provide self-service problem-solving
the workflow for incorporating retrieval-augmented generation into LLMs
the similar meaning of the concept of "chunking" in technical communication and LLMs
the differences between how LLMs process language and how humans read - and the implications of this for prompt design and engineering
the emerging structure for prompts: assigning a role, describing the task, providing a context
the differences between conversational prompting, prompt design, and prompt engineering
how she works with her engineering partners
the difference between the logical inference that knowledge graphs do and the statistical inference that LLMs use
how she keeps up with the rapidly changing developments in her field
her invention: ALIs, application language interfaces
how she uses ChatGPT in voice mode to capture and summarize her thoughts when she's out for a walk
her prediction that "the future is bright for those who know how to write"
Maaike's bio
Maaike Groenewege is a conversation design lead, linguist and prompt designer with her boutique consultancy firm Convocat BV. She coaches both starting and more experienced conversational teams in optimising their conversation design practise, NLU analyses and team communication. Her main focus right now is on how LLMs can benefit enterprise conversational AI. Maaike is the founder of www.convo.club, an online community for more than 700 conversation designers.
Connect with Maaike online
Convoclub
LinkedIn
Connect with Maaike at these events
European Chatbot and Conversational AI Summit, Edinburgh, March 12-14, 2024
UX Copenhagen, March 20-21, 2024
Unparsed Conference London, June 17-19, 2024
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/3qxxb18BqFM
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 20. A false dichotomy has arisen in the AI world between conversational prompting in chatbot interfaces and prompt engineering under the hood. Maaike Groenewege works in the middle ground, in a role she calls "prompt design." She also draws on practices from her background in technical communication, after observing that whether you're writing for humans or designing prompts for LLMs, you have to truly understand your audience and always provide clear and specific instructions.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode number 20 of the Content + AI podcast. I am super delighted today to welcome to the show Maaike Groenewege. Maaike is ... Well, she's a principal at Convocat, her company, and she's an actual genuine, prompt engineer. So, Maaike, welcome. Tell the folks more about what it's like being a prompt engineer at Convocat.
Maaike: -
Rebecca Evanhoe
Rebecca Evanhoe practices, teaches, and writes about conversation design, a key UX practice that is taking on fresh importance in the age of chat-based AI applications.
Since the publication of her book Conversations with Things (co-authored with Diana Deibel) three years ago, the tech and media worlds have fundamentally transformed, but the conversation-design principles that she teaches remain as relevant as ever.
We talked about:
the conversation design and UX writing courses she teaches
reflections on the book she co-wrote several years ago, "Conversations with Things" and the changes in the conversation-design world since
how the focus on principles in
a framewwork set out in their book that helps designers decide on whether or not and how to ascribe personality to a chat agent
her identification as a UX designer
how she's incorporating LLMs into her course curricula
her take on the misappropriation of the term "prompt" in new practices called "prompting" and "prompt engineering" and their divergence from traditional use in the conversation design field
the differences in the conversation designer role in the LLM world compared with NLP
the linguistic concept of "conversation repair" and how it manifests in "bot land"
how to adjust confidence level in conversation design
how intent classification in NLU works
her preference for humans and human conversation
the importance of including people with a humanities background in conversation design
the ongoing importance of humans in the content and conversation design process for our ability to think strategically about how to maximize the success of conversational technology
Rebecca's bio
Rebecca Evanhoe is an author, teacher, and conversation designer. With degrees in chemistry and fiction writing, she's passionate about how interdisciplinary thinking can combine arts, humanities, sciences, and tech. She teaches conversational UX design as a visiting assistant professor at Pratt Institute, and co-authored Conversation with Things: UX Design for Chat and Voice (Rosenfeld Media, 2021).
Connect with Rebecca online
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/xJkB03uH8ek
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 19. We're all talking to computers a lot more these days - telling Alexa to set a timer, asking Midjourney to create an image for a party invitation, or prompting ChatGPT to draft an outline for a slide deck. Rebecca Evanhoe is an expert on the interaction design practices that guide these conversations. Three years ago, her book "Conversations with Things" set out a principles-based approach to conversation design that remains super-relevant in the age of large language models.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 19 of the Content and AI podcast. I am really happy today to welcome to the show Rebecca Evanhoe. Rebecca is really well known in the conversation design world. She's a conversation designer. She's the co-author of the really excellent book Conversations with Things that came out a few years ago, and she teaches conversation design and other kinds of design work at Pratt University in New York. So welcome to the show, Rebecca, tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.
Rebecca:
Yeah, hi Larry, it's nice to be back. Yeah, these days I am teaching, I think you said conversation design, and specifically this semester I'm teaching a class in UX writing, which I love because it doesn't matter what kind of writing I'm teaching, it's like a chance to think about language and celebrate how cool language is with my students. And yeah, I've been teaching, I am doing some work at a cool place that I won't get into here. But yeah, it's been a really interesting couple of years.
Larry:
Yeah, because we last talked right before your book came out, - Mostra di più
