Episodi
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In this first installment of a two-part conversation, Andrew explores the complex intersection of identity, ethics, and meaningful work with Anne Brafford, a former Big Law partner turned well-being consultant and researcher.
Drawing from her two-decade career as an employment lawyer and subsequent academic work, Brafford shares her insights about how personal values, professional identity, and moral courage shape our experience of meaningful work.
Brafford illuminates how lawyers find meaning in their work beyond the traditional narrative of public service, highlighting the importance of moral exemplars and ethical decision-making in corporate law. She also shares encouraging examples of how some law firms are evolving to create more inclusive, purposeful work environments in response to recent social changes.
Key Takeaways:Meaningful work influences how different individuals experience purpose in similar rolesMoral exemplars in professional settings can help others navigate ethical challenges while maintaining meaningful engagementLocal, everyday meaning can be as important as broader purpose in creating fulfilling work experiencesAbout Our Guest:Dr. Anne Brafford (JD, MAPP, PhD) is a leading voice in lawyer well-being and workplace engagement. As the owner of Aspire, an education and consulting firm for the legal profession, and a founder of the Institute for Well-Being in Law, she brings both practical experience and academic rigor to her work.
Previously an equity partner at one of the nation's largest law firms, Anne now focuses on helping the legal profession build engaging workplaces where people and businesses can grow and succeed together. She holds a PhD in positive organizational psychology from Claremont Graduate University and a Master's in Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.
Her research and consulting work centers on the intersection of inclusion, engagement, and well-being in professional settings.
Resources Mentioned:Book: Positive Professionals: Creating High-Performing, Profitable Firms Through the Science of Engagement by Anne BraffordArticle: "Judges' Well-Being and the Importance of Meaningful Work" (Court Review)Article: "Five Ways to Foster Meaningful Work and Boost Lawyer Well-Being" (Texas Bar Journal)Lawyer Well-Being YouTube ChannelInstitute for Well-Being in LawThe Good Work ProjectNote: This is Part 1 of a two-part series. Tune in next week for Part 2, where Anne and Andrew dive deeper into Self-Determination Theory and its practical applications for creating meaningful work environments.
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew sits down with Dr. Gitima Sharma to explore the intersection of purpose, well-being, and meaningful work through both Eastern and Western perspectives.
From her early years in India grappling with family mental health challenges to her current role as leading purpose researcher and coach, Sharma shares how Buddhist philosophy and academic research have shaped her understanding of purpose as something that rises above the pursuit of happiness towards creating positive change both within ourselves and society.
Through personal stories and research insights, she introduces her five-part model for cultivating purpose - explore, engage, reflect, articulate, and actualize - offering a flexible framework for aligning daily work with values and fulfillment. The conversation tackles important themes around cultural context, gender, work-life harmony, and how to maintain purpose while navigating challenging organizational systems.
Key Takeaways:Purpose involves both individual growth and contribution to collective well-being - it's not just about personal satisfactionHaving a sense of purpose is more protective against depression than life satisfactionThe five phases of purpose development: explore, engage, reflect, articulate, and actualizePurpose can be found both within and outside of work - sometimes work enables purpose in other life domainsThe importance of community support and mentorship in developing and maintaining purpose, especially for underrepresented groupsAbout Our Guest:Dr. Gitima Sharma is an Associate Professor of Counseling at California State University, Fresno and Founder of CoachInspire. With a Ph.D. in Counselor Education from Penn State, she has published over 30 research articles on purpose and well-being, while mentoring more than 100 students and clients. Her work integrates academic research, evidence-based practices, and humanistic principles to foster cultures of empathy, care, and positive impact.
Resources Mentioned:Free eBook: Thriving Beyond StressPersonal Coaching ResourcesDr. Sharma's ResearchBuddhist Philosophy ResourceConnect with Dr. Sharma on LinkedIn -
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew sits down with Zach Mercurio to explore the fundamental human need to matter.
As both a researcher and practitioner in organizational psychology, Mercurio shares profound insights into how the experience of mattering shapes workplace behavior, engagement, and well-being. Through compelling stories and research-backed observations, he explains how mattering isn't just about feeling valued, but about the essential human instinct to be significant to others.
The conversation delves into how recent global events like the pandemic have amplified people's search for meaning, leading to phenomena like the Great Resignation and Quiet Quitting.
Mercurio offers practical leadership strategies for creating cultures where people feel noticed, affirmed, and needed, while also examining the potential dark sides of mattering when taken to extremes.
Key Takeaways:Mattering is both a survival instinct and psychological need that requires systemic support through organizational culture, practices, and leadership behaviorsLeaders need specific skills and practices to help others feel noticed, affirmed, and needed - intuition alone isn't enoughThe experience of anti-mattering often leads to either withdrawal behaviors or acts of desperation in the workplaceOrganizations need to move beyond relying on intuition and create concrete practices and systems that enable and ensure mattering behaviorsAbout Our Guest:Dr. Zach Mercurio is a researcher, author, and thought leader in purposeful leadership and organizational psychology. As a Research and Teaching Fellow at Colorado State University's Center for Meaning and Purpose, his work focuses on how mattering and meaningful work drive human behavior and organizational success.
His research has been recognized by leading academic and professional organizations, and his forthcoming book "The Power of Mattering: How Leaders Can Create a Culture of Significance" will be published by Harvard Business Review Press in 2025.
Beyond his academic work, Zach consults with global organizations to develop purposeful leaders and cultures where people experience significance. His unique position as both a researcher and practitioner allows him to bridge the gap between academic insights and practical application in organizational settings.
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In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Carrie Oelberger on Meaningful Work Matters, we explore the "myth of agency" in mission-driven work and discover how rethinking our approach to helping professions can lead to more sustainable and effective outcomes for both workers and those they serve.
Dr. Oelberger shares her research about frontline workers in caring professions, introducing a revolutionary approach called "human accompaniment" that challenges traditional assumptions about meaningful work in helping roles.
Key Topics Explored:The myth of agency in mission-driven workThree distinct approaches to frontline workHuman accompaniment as a sustainable practiceRethinking hiring practices and qualificationsPolicy-level changes needed to support meaningful workCross-cultural perspectives on workplace supportQuote from the Episode:"The myth of agency is this false cultural idea that an individual can fully overcome structural and institutional barriers through strategic individual behaviors... this often leads to burnout, because people enter this work with these huge inflated understandings of how they're going to be able to make change." - Dr. Carrie Oelberger
Key Takeaways:Traditional approaches to frontline work often lead to burnout or apathyHuman accompaniment offers a sustainable alternative to "fixing" or "processing" approachesFormal qualifications may sometimes hinder rather than help effective caring workLived experience and emotional intelligence are often more valuable than academic credentialsSystemic support is needed to create sustainable meaningful workAbout Our Guest:Dr. Carrie Oelberger is an Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota's Humphrey School of Public Affairs and a McKnight Land Grant Professor. Combining sociology and psychology in her approach to organizational studies, she brings both academic rigor and practical experience to her research on meaningful work. Her current work focuses on creating systemic changes to support sustainable meaningful work at societal, organizational, and individual levels.
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In Part 1 of this two-part conversation on Meaningful Work Matters, Dr. Carrie Oelberger explores the complexities and potential dark sides of deeply meaningful work, particularly in mission-driven organizations. She introduces groundbreaking research on how different individuals experience meaning at work and challenges common assumptions about value alignment in nonprofit and social impact sectors.
Dr. Oelberger's insights reveal how meaningful work can both enhance and complicate our lives, especially regarding work-life boundaries and relationships.
Key Topics Explored:Values alignment and individual work preferencesThe relationship between meaningful work and job securityBoundary inhibition in highly meaningful workImpact of meaningful work on personal relationshipsIntersectional challenges in mission-driven workLeadership considerations for managing meaningful workQuote from the Episode:"People who find their work deeply meaningful... that boundary around their work time is inhibited, not by their employers actually, but by themselves. They are really devoting themselves - physically, emotionally, mentally - to their workplaces, because they find so much meaning in it." - Dr. Carrie Oelberger
Key Takeaways:One size fits none when it comes to meaningful work - individual preferences and values vary significantlyJob security matters universally, regardless of stated preferencesThe impact of meaningful work on personal life varies significantly across different identities and social positionsMeaningful work can turn into armour we wear that weighs heavily on personal relationships.Organizations need to actively manage the potential dark sides of meaningful workResources Mentioned:Research on work-life boundaries by Mary Blair-LoyVivek Murthy's workplace wellbeing frameworkDavid Blustein's research on decent workScott Barry Kaufman's interpretation of Maslow's hierarchyAbout Our Guest:Dr. Carrie Oelberger is an Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota's Humphrey School of Public Affairs and a McKnight Land Grant Professor. Her research on meaningful work is deeply informed by her experience leading a grassroots NGO in Tanzania, where she developed the country's first rural community education resource center. Her work examines how organizations can balance meaningful work with sustainable workforce management, particularly in mission-driven contexts.
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, we discuss the concept of purpose with Dr. Patrick Hill, a professor at Washington University in St. Louis whose research focuses on understanding how dispositional traits predict and shape trajectories of healthy aging.
Dr. Hill challenges conventional notions of purpose, advocating for a more accessible and actionable approach that focuses on everyday direction rather than grand, overwhelming goals.
Key Takeaways:Purpose should be viewed as adaptable, accessible, and actionable rather than a lofty, unattainable goal.Focusing on small, everyday actions that provide direction can be more beneficial than pursuing a grand "big P" purpose.Dialogue and support systems are crucial for exploring and maintaining a sense of purpose, especially in challenging contexts.Organizations should focus on specific purpose-based activities rather than vague purpose statements.Activists can have a strong sense of purpose, but it doesn’t always help their well-being, especially when they lack strong support systems.About Our Guest:Dr. Patrick Hill is a professor of psychological and brain sciences at Washington University in St. Louis. His research program examines how to cultivate a life direction and how purpose promotes adaptive lifespan development. Dr. Hill received his PhD from the University of Notre Dame and his BA from Indiana University. His work provides valuable insights into the practical applications of purpose in various life domains, including work and personal development.
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew Soren sits down with William Damon, a pioneering developmental psychologist and one of the world's most senior purpose scholars. Damon shares insights from his decades of research on purpose, positive youth development, and the "triple helix" of good work.
Key Topics Explored:
The "triple helix" of good work: excellence, engagement, and ethicsDefining purpose as an active commitment with personal meaning and societal impactHow purpose evolves throughout one's career and life stagesCritical mindsets for cultivating purpose: gratitude and serviceBalancing meritocracy, equity, and the potential dark sides of meaningful workQuote from the Episode:
"Purpose is an active commitment to accomplish something that is both meaningful to the self and of consequence to the world beyond the self." - William Damon
Key Takeaways:
Purpose develops gradually over a lifetime, requiring adaptation to changing circumstances.Gratitude and a sense of service are crucial for fostering purpose, especially in younger individuals.The pursuit of excellence through hard work remains important, even as workplace values evolve.Resources Mentioned:
"Good Work: When Excellence and Ethics Meet" by Howard Gardner, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, and William Damon"The Purpose Driven Life" by Rick WarrenAbout Our Guest:
William Damon is a Professor of Education at Stanford University and Senior Fellow (by courtesy) at the Hoover Institution. He is one of the world's leading researchers in human development and a pioneer in the study of how people find purpose.
Damon has authored numerous influential books, including "The Path to Purpose," "Greater Expectations" (winner of the Parent's Choice Book Award), "Good Work" (with Howard Gardner and Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi), and "Some Do Care: Contemporary Lives of Moral Commitment" (with Anne Colby).
His most recent book, "A Round of Golf with my Father," explores narrative methods for fostering positive identity, gratitude, and redemption of regrets.
Damon is a Fellow of the National Academy of Education and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and has spent his career advancing our understanding of moral development, purpose, and positive youth development.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to Meaningful Work Matters on your favorite podcast platform!
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, host Andrew Soren explores the complex relationship between stress and meaningful work with Jess Annison, positive psychology practitioner and author of the upcoming book "Career: How to Conquer Your Mid-Career Crisis and Create Your Most Meaningful Work Life."
Jess shares her research findings and practical insights on navigating the interplay between stress and purpose in our professional lives, challenging common assumptions about meaningful work.
Key topics discussed:The six "handshakes" between stress and meaningful work (10:15)How meaningful work can both exacerbate and alleviate stress (13:30)The concept of "bottomless pit" of meaningful work in certain professions (11:45)Strategies for individuals to navigate stress in purposeful careers (22:45)The role of organizations in fostering meaningful work while managing stress (25:30)Career crafting as a tool for sustainable meaningful work (35:20)Guest Bio:Jess Annison is a UK-based positive psychology practitioner, leadership coach, and career consultant. With a background in organizational change and a master's in applied positive psychology, Jess brings both practical experience and academic insights to the discussion of meaningful work.
Resources mentioned:"A Few Things in Life Are Easy and Worth Doing" research paper by Jess Annison (Frontiers in Psychology)Job Demands-Resources Theory (05:30)Bunderson and Thompson's zookeeper study on meaningful work (10:45)Michael Steger's CARMA model for leadership behaviors (28:15)Listeners will gain a nuanced understanding of the stress-meaning relationship in their careers and learn practical strategies for creating sustainable, fulfilling work lives. This episode encourages reflection on the complexities of meaningful work and offers insights for both individuals and organizations in navigating these challenges.
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, host Andrew Soren unpacks the concept of "unlearning silence" with Elaine Lin Hering, author of "Unlearning Silence: How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More Fully."
Elaine shares her insights on creating more authentic and inclusive work environments by addressing the complex dynamics of silence in the workplace.
Key topics discussed:The concept of "unlearning silence" and its importance in workplace communication (2:57)Cultural and societal factors contributing to learned silence (12:57)Strategies for individuals to reconnect with their authentic voice (38:02)The role of leaders in creating environments where diverse voices are valued (43:56)Balancing strategic silence and oppressive silence (34:06)Guest Bio:Elaine Lin Hering is a recovering attorney turned accidental author. With over a decade of experience in corporate education and leadership development, Elaine has dedicated her career to improving workplace communication and helping people show up authentically in their professional and personal lives.
Resources mentioned:"Unlearning Silence: How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More Fully" by Elaine Lin HeringAnkari Williams' work on micro-activism (36:06)Research on psychological safety in the workplace (27:29)Listeners will gain practical advice for both individuals and managers on fostering environments where every voice can be heard, contributing to more meaningful and impactful work.
This episode challenges listeners to reflect on their own relationship with silence and provides actionable steps for creating more authentic and inclusive workplaces.
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This episode of Meaningful Work Matters features Frank Martela, PhD Assistant Professor at Aalto University, and explores the nuanced landscape of meaningful work.
While the pursuit of meaningful work is often celebrated, Frank sheds light on both its benefits and potential pitfalls.
Drawing from his extensive research, he offers a comprehensive view of what constitutes meaningful work. He introduces a innovative model of well-being that bridges individual needs with broader societal and environmental concerns.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into:
The key dimensions that make work truly meaningfulHow to recognize and navigate the potential downsides of highly engaging workA fresh perspective on well-being that goes beyond traditional measuresThe crucial link between personal fulfillment and sustainable practices -
Ever wonder how constructive dissent could transform your workplace?
In this episode, we explore the concept of principled rebellion with Dr. Todd Kashdan, a renowned psychologist and professor at George Mason University. With over two decades of research in positive psychology and well-being, Dr. Kashdan offers valuable insights into fostering meaningful dissent in the workplace.
Listeners will discover strategies for navigating organizational dynamics, championing new ideas, and creating environments that welcome constructive disagreement.
Dr. Kashdan examines the delicate balance between innovation and conformity, providing a nuanced perspective on how principled insubordination can lead to more fulfilling and impactful work.
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In this episode of the Meaningful Work Matters podcast, Andrew sits down with Antoinette Weibel, a professor of Human Resource Management at the University of St. Gallen.
Antoinette is a leading expert in organizational psychology and has been at the forefront of research and initiatives aimed at fostering good leadership in organizations and societies.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Antoinette and Andrew dive into the complexities of meaningful work, the critiques of positive psychology in organizational contexts, and Antoinette's work on reimagining performance management to better support human flourishing.
Antoinette's insights on practical wisdom, ethics, and the role of business in society provide a thought-provoking framework for rethinking the future of work.
Listeners will leave this episode with a deeper understanding of the limitations of traditional performance management systems and the need for a more holistic, ethical approach to supporting employee flourishing.
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew sits down with Professor Mijeong Kwon, Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Colorado Denver Business School, to discuss her research on the "moralization of intrinsic motivation" and its impact on meaningful work.
Professor Kwon reveals how a deep love for one's work can lead people to see their passion as the "right" reason for working. However, this moralization can sometimes result in negative outcomes like guilt, self-exploitation, and neglect of other important aspects of life.
Through her research in Latin America and the US, Kwon found that moralizing passion can also reinforce existing biases.
Andrew and Mijeong explore the intricate balance between intrinsic factors like passion and extrinsic factors like pay and status. They also discuss practical strategies for managers to support diverse motivations and create safe environments where passion can flourish.
The conversation highlights the complexities of passion and meaning at work and emphasizes that true leadership involves recognizing that different things motivate different people.
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In this heartwarming and enlightening conversation, Professor Ella Henry shares her insights on meaningful work and well-being from a Māori worldview.
Ella Henry is a prominent figure in Māori Indigenous development with a background in sociology, business, and Māori media. Over the past two decades, she has been actively involved in research, teaching, and advocacy. Ella's extensive involvement includes serving as a Treaty Negotiator for Ngātikahu ki Whangaroa and as Director of Māori Advancement for the Business School.
Throughout this episode, Ella discusses traditional Maori models of well-being, which emphasize healing the whole person through strong connections between body, emotions, intellect, spirituality, and family/community.
She explains that the Maori concept of "calling" is about understanding one's innate strengths and being nurtured towards work that aligns with those abilities rather than seeing it as a higher calling from an external source.
Through her thoughtful storytelling and analysis, Ella offers valuable Indigenous perspectives that provide new lenses for understanding the relationship between work, identity, and living well.
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In this episode, Andrew Soren speaks with Mat Duerden, a professor of experience design and management at Brigham Young University in Utah.
Mat reveals how to harness the power of experience design to infuse work with greater meaning. You’ll learn how intentional design can turn everyday tasks into impactful experiences that resonate deeply with you and those around you.
Discover the art of co-creating experiences and understand how your unique background influences the way you perceive and engage with the world. Mat guides us through the parallels between experience design and theater, helping us see our roles as both audience members and actors in life's journey.
Through this conversation, you’ll gain a deeper understanding of how intentional experience design can contribute to creating meaningful work—both inside and outside the workplace.
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On this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, host Andrew is joined by Gerard Seijts and Kimberley Young Milani from the Institute for Leadership at Western University. The trio discuss the vital yet often overlooked role of character in leadership.
Gerard and Kimberley have spent over a decade researching the dimensions of strong leadership character through rigorous studies involving thousands of leaders. They developed an evidence-based framework identifying 11 key aspects of character, such as accountability, collaboration, courage, and humanity.
But character development has long been neglected in business education. As Gerard explains, their work aims to bring character back into the leadership conversation where it belongs.
With compelling research and real-world examples, this discussion brings the complex yet vital topic of character to life.
You’ll walk away with a renewed understanding of how developing strengths like humility, courage, and justice can unlock potential and design truly meaningful work.
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This episode of Meaningful Work Matters is a rich conversation with researcher Marjo Lips-Wiersma on navigating meaningful work.
Marjo Lips-Wiersma, Professor of Ethics and Sustainability Leadership at Auckland University of Technology, has researched meaningful work, sustainability, hope and well-being for decades, and her work is utilized by organizations worldwide. She is also the co-director of Map of Meaning.
In this episode, Marjo and Andrew discuss the complexity of defining meaningful work and why it can be difficult to discuss in organizations. Marjo also outlines key dimensions of workplace meaning, including contribution, potential, relationships, and integrity.
Marjo provides tools for reconciling inspiration and reality, helping listeners understand meaningful work in both aspirational and grounded terms.
Overall, this thought-provoking discussion offers frameworks to design work that supports people's well-being in a meaningful way.
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In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew interviewed Jeff Thompson, Director of the Sorensen Center for Moral and Ethical Leadership and long-time professor at Brigham Young University.
Jeff Thompson shares his insights from over two decades of teaching and researching meaningful work, particularly in healthcare. He defines a calling as the convergence of natural talents, passions, and purpose, illustrating its historical roots and contemporary relevance.
Drawing on recent research, Jeff discusses the concept of a "transcendent calling" and its profound impact on motivation and fulfillment. He highlights studies, including one on zookeepers, that challenge stereotypes and reveal deep dedication rooted in passion and purpose.
Jeff provides actionable strategies for leaders to cultivate gratitude, growth opportunities, and a sense of community among their teams.
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In this episode, we sat down with Dr. Isaac Prilleltensky, Mautner Endowed Chair in Community Well-Being and Professor of Educational and Psychological Studies at the University of Miami. Dr. Prilleltensky is also an internationally renowned keynote speaker, author, researcher, and well-being advocate.
Andrew and Dr. Prilleltensky discuss the importance of meaningful work and mattering. Dr. Prilleltensky draws from his scholarly research on topics like justice, mattering, and well-being, as well as his practical experience improving workplace environments.
Dr. Prilleltenky shares insights into how feeling valued through recognition while adding value to others through meaningful contributions are key but often overlooked aspects of workplace engagement. He discusses strategies for prioritizing employee dignity, recognition, and collective success to create a "we culture" where fairness and belonging are prioritized over individual pursuits.
For people managers and leaders: you will learn concrete ways to foster environments where all staff feel they matter.
If you'd like to learn more about Dr. Prilleltenky or get in touch, head this way!
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In this episode, we sat down with Dr. Evgenia Lysova, Associate Professor of Organizational Behavior at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam.
Dr. Lysova is on a mission to help people find more significance in their work and daily lives. But she doesn’t shy away from the topic's complexity. In this episode, she delves into the interplay between individual values, job design, corporate social responsibility (CSR), and societal expectations that shape our pursuit of meaningful work.
Amidst the evolving landscape of work, particularly with the advent of artificial intelligence, Dr. Lysova explores the challenges and opportunities in sustaining meaningfulness.
The conversation also ventures into practical strategies for individuals and organizations to cultivate a culture where meaningful work thrives, emphasizing the importance of mindfulness, reflection, and fostering supportive relationships.
Join us as we unravel the layers of meaningful work, offering insights for organizational leaders, coaches, and consultants who aim to unlock the full potential of their teams and create work environments that help unlock people's gifts, strengths, and potential.
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