Folgen
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Jon talks with branding expert Vardeep Edwards. They discuss what it takes to build a unique brand in a crowded market. You will learn about the importance of understanding and developing your brand, and how to make a real connection with people. Vardeep shares her experience and gives practical tips on defining your brand identity, creating emotional connections, and using different content types to raise brand visibility. They also touch on the role of AI tools in branding. This episode aims to help small architecture practice owners grow a successful business.
Today's Guest...
Vardeep Edwards is the founder of The Branding Fox - a Brand Development & Design studio dedicated to your brand transformation. She has over twenty years of experience and has worked with the likes of ODEON, Marie Curie, Pentagram & EMAP, helping growing businesses with their branding and design needs. Vardeep believes that creating a brand foundation is crucial for your business to grow. She can help you translate this concept into an impactful and purposeful brand identity so that you have clarity on your brand, your positioning and how to attract your dream clients.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:13 Meet Vardeep Edwards: Branding Expert
03:22 The Importance of Branding
06:18 Defining Your Brand Identity
09:00 Understanding Your Audience
12:44 Bringing Personality to Your Brand
20:10 Content Creation Tips
25:42 Building Emotional Connections
29:59 Raising Brand Visibility
33:33 Integrating Branding into Your Business
37:22 The Role of AI in Branding
41:43 Travel Stories and Conclusion
Key Takeaways...
Understand Your Brand and Audience
You need to be clear about what your brand stands for—its values, identity, and what makes it different. At the same time, it’s just as important to know who your audience is, what they need, and where they spend their time. This understanding helps you create better branding and marketing plans.
Keep Developing Your Brand
Your brand isn’t something you set up once and leave. It’s a process that grows with your business. You should regularly check what’s working, listen to feedback, and adjust as the market changes. This way, your message stays clear and makes sense to your audience.
Build Real Connections Through Content
Sharing real and interesting stories, like behind-the-scenes moments or personal experiences, helps people trust you. Creating content—both long posts and short updates—shows your brand’s personality and message. Use things like social media, interviews, or in-person chats to connect with people and build stronger relationships.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Connect with Vardeep on LinkedIn
Vist Vardeep’s Website – The Branding Fox
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group...
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Have you had bad experiences outsourcing your architectural drafting work? Don't give up yet! In this episode Jon talks to Derek Timms about avoiding common outsourcing mistakes and finding the right partner. Derek, a chartered architect with 25 years of experience, shares tips on building long-term, trusted partnerships and the benefits of early planning. Derek also talks about his role as a school governor and the importance of communication and setting clear expectations. If you're a small practice leader or sole practitioner in architecture, this episode will help you understand how to make outsourcing work for you.
Today's Guest...
Derek Timms is a Chartered Architect with 25 years of experience working at practices like Farrells, Gensler, and Sheppard Robson. He’s the Managing Director at The Sourcing Collective - a support studio for the AEC industry. The Sourcing Collective collaborates with surveyors, architects, interior designers, contractors, and property managers, providing architectural drafting support in BIM environments tailored to your systems and processes. This allows you and your in-house team to focus on design and add value to your projects. They also work with AJ100 practices, integrating into their teams across multiple large-scale projects.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:40 Meet Derek Timms and The Sourcing Collective
04:17 Common Outsourcing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them
06:49 Finding the Right Outsourcing Partner
10:04 Importance of Clear Communication
11:48 Setting the Right Expectations
16:36 Early Planning and Avoiding Last-Minute Decisions
25:31 Low-Risk Outsourcing Trials
32:54 Final Thoughts on Outsourcing
38:39 Derek's Favorite Travel Destination
41:30 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
✅ Think Long-Term
Treat outsourcing like a partnership, not just a one-time job. When you work together over time, you can learn each other's styles and create a smoother way of working that benefits both sides.
✅ Keep Communication Open
Regular updates, even on small things, help everyone stay on track. Good communication builds trust and makes outsourced teams feel like they’re part of your own business.
✅ Plan Ahead
Outsourced teams need time to learn your processes, just like new employees. Avoid last-minute decisions that can lead to rushed results. Early planning gives you better results and a less stressful experience.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Visit Derek’s website (The Sourcing Collective)
Connect with Derek on LinkedIn
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
👉 Follow or Connect with Jon on...
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Fehlende Folgen?
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Jon chats with Laura Pearman, an expert in personal branding about the importance of personal branding for solo and small firm architecture practice owners. They discuss how you can adapt your personal brand as your business grows. Laura shares tips on how to start and build a strong personal brand, and explains common misconceptions people have about it. They also discuss how external factors like your views on the environment and technology may influence your personal brand. Jon and Laura also share personal stories about their own experiences. Laura shares steps you can take today to align your personal brand with your business goals.
Today's Guest...
Laura Pearman is an internationally recognised Personal Brand Consultant with over a decade of experience helping leaders create impactful and authentic personal brands. Based in the UK, Laura specialises in bespoke strategies, combining creative vision with sharp business acumen. She’s known for her quirky Vintage style, straight-talking Northern charm, and ability to bridge the gap between business owners and creatives. Laura’s work has empowered countless leaders to elevate their authority, embrace their uniqueness, and drive results.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:15 Meet Laura Pearman: Personal Brand Consultant
05:33 Personal Branding Misconceptions
09:11 Challenges for Architects in Personal Branding
15:52 Practical Steps for Personal Branding
23:04 Client Success Stories
29:11 Final Thoughts and Takeaways
39:09 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
Your Personal Brand Grows with You
Your personal brand isn’t something you set up once and forget about. It changes as your business and the industry evolve, so you’ll need to keep refining and updating it to stay relevant.
Stay True to Who You Are
The best personal brands feel real and reflect who you truly are. Make sure your brand matches your values and those of your business to create a consistent and relatable image.
Use Research to Guide Your Brand
Good personal branding is based on research. Look into industry trends, key players, and new ideas. Tools like the PESTLE model can help you spot what matters and keep your brand relevant.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Grab Laura’s Personal Branding Checklist 🎁
Connect with Laura on Instragram 🤝
Watch Laura’s YouTube Channel 📹
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
👉 Follow or Connect with Jon on LinkedIn 🤝
👇 And if you enjoyed this...
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In this special episode of Architecture Business Club, Jon marks the podcast's one-year anniversary, celebrating 57 episodes. Jon shares his journey of starting the podcast, its initial reception, and future plans. Catch interesting stats about podcast longevity, listener demographics, and download milestones. Jon also reflects on his motivations, lessons learned, and the hard work required to maintain a podcast. He thanks listeners for their support and talks about exciting future guests and projects. Tune in for inspiration and tips on launching your own podcast!
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:28 Podcast Statistics and Achievements
05:24 Why I Started This Podcast
13:55 How I Launched The Podcast
18:47 Launch Day and Early Feedback
23:47 What Happened After The Launch
31:11 The Realities of Podcasting
33:13 Future Guests and Aspirations
35:43 Launching Your Own Podcast: Tips and Advice
40:55 Community and Membership Plans
44:16 Gratitude and Closing Remarks
Key Takeaways...
Starting a Podcast: What to Expect
Starting a podcast takes planning and preparation. You’ll need to learn the tech, face personal fears like public speaking, and stay on top of the workload to produce regular, quality episodes. Setting a launch date, practising with test interviews, and planning ahead can help you feel more confident and ready to hit the ground running.
Growing Your Reach and Building Connections
A podcast can open doors to new opportunities. You might get noticed for awards, or be invited to events and interviews. Hosting or being a guest on podcasts helps you build connections and collaborate with others in your industry, creating chances to grow your practice.
Staying Consistent and Building Community
Running a podcast means sticking with it to keep the content flowing. But it’s about more than episodes—it's about creating a space where people connect. Your podcast becomes a way to build lasting relationships.
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Want to be the first to know when we open the doors to our membership community?
👉 Join our Waitlist so you don’t miss out! 😀
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Follow or Connect with Jon on LinkedIn 🤝
👇 And if you enjoyed this episode…
Please leave a 5-star review or rating wherever you listen to podcasts, and don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
In The Next Episode...
Next time Jon chats with Laura Pearman to explore how you can adapt your personal brand as your business changes.
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Jon continues his chat from the previous episode with sales expert Helen Tebay. They discuss practical tips to convert cold leads into hot sales. Helen shares advice on dealing with unresponsive clients and the importance of booking follow-up steps during initial calls. They also cover strategies for getting video testimonials and staying focused during slow periods. Jon shares why proactive outreach and customer-focused communication are so important.
Today's Guest...
Helen Tebay helps service-based business owners like coaches, consultants, and experts to sell and market their businesses. Win more 4 and 5-figure clients faster. Feel better about selling and learn how to sell better.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:20 Dealing with Ghosted Leads
02:18 Booking Follow-Up Calls
04:39 Direct Communication Strategies
09:36 Staying Focused During Slow Months
12:42 Understanding Client Value
14:52 Gathering Client Testimonials
16:17 Leveraging Video Testimonials
24:18 Real and Relatable Marketing
25:48 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways
27:17 Favorite Travel Destinations
28:34 Where to Find Helen Online
29:10 Closing Remarks and Next Episode Teaser
Key Takeaways...
Importance of Following Up and Being Clear
You should always schedule a follow-up call straight after your first meeting or sending a proposal. This keeps things moving and stops leads from disappearing. Be clear and direct when reaching out again, whether it’s through an email or a phone call. It helps you get answers and restart any stalled conversations.
Staying Active When Business is Slow
During quiet times, stay focused by taking small but effective steps. Have meaningful chats with potential clients, share helpful advice, or highlight past client wins. Doing things like hosting a live session or posting success stories keeps your name out there and shows you’re still open for business.
Keeping Your Marketing Real
People connect with what’s real. Instead of polished ads or perfect videos, try sharing behind-the-scenes clips or genuine client stories. This shows the true side of your work and helps build trust with new clients who can see what it’s like to work with you.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Connect with Helen on LinkedIn
Visit Helen’s Website
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👇 Click the link below to grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the FREE step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers.
https://architecturebusinessclub.com/blueprint
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
👉...
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Jon and guest Helen Tebay discuss how small architecture firms can overcome a sales slump. They talk about the importance of staying calm, being consistent, and focusing on problem-solving. They share tips on how to re-engage with past clients, use content to answer questions, and look back at successful months to find patterns. Helen also compares sales strategies to dog training, highlighting the need for consistency and the right energy. Tune in for practical advice on getting more sales for your architecture practice!
Today's Guest...
Helen Tebay helps service-based business owners like coaches, consultants, and experts to sell and market their businesses. Win more 4 and 5-figure clients faster. Feel better about selling and learn how to sell better.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:48 Dog Training and Sales Parallels
04:14 Staying Calm During Sales Slumps
06:52 Analysing Past Successes
13:22 Reconnecting with Past Clients
20:36 Creative Marketing Strategies
24:54 Quick Sales Tips for Architects
29:10 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
Key Takeaways...
Staying Calm and Solving Problems When Sales Drop:
If sales slow down, try not to worry. Instead of panicking, look back at what worked well before. Think about what actions and mindsets led to good sales times. Staying calm and focused on solutions will help you handle slow sales periods better.
Reconnecting with Past Clients:
Reaching out to past clients or leads is a good way to get new sales quickly. A follow-up message can remind them of your work and bring them back. Personal messages, like checking in or suggesting new services, can make them feel valued and more likely to return.
Showing Value and Easing Client Worries:
Help clients feel more comfortable by sharing helpful info. Create videos or articles that answer common questions or show what to expect in the architecture process. Showing successful projects and sharing client stories can also help build trust and show that your services are worth it.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Connect with Helen on LinkedIn
Visit Helen’s Website
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
👉 Follow or Connect with Jon on LinkedIn 🤝
👇 And if you enjoyed this episode…
Please leave a 5-star review or rating wherever you listen to podcasts, and don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
In The Next Episode...
You can hear Part 2 of my conversation with Helen in the next episode.
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Jon talks to Prachi Rampuria, co-founder of Eco Responsive Environments, about how collaboration can change small architecture practices and help solve big problems like climate change. Prachi discusses the benefits of working together and shares real-life examples from her projects. They also talk about the challenges of professional silos and how to overcome them. Learn tips on communication, maintaining relationships, and the importance of listening. Discover how teamwork can lead to innovation and a better future for architecture.
Today's Guest...
Prachi Rampuria is a co-founding director of EcoResponsive Environments, an award-winning urban design and architectural practice with a singular mission: using a complex-systems approach, they design to support health and wellbeing. As a consultancy, their services include feasibility studies, visioning and development briefs, outline and detailed planning applications, strategic master planning, public realm and regeneration strategies, research publications, and teaching. Prachi is a Design Council Expert, teaches at Oxford Brookes University’s MAUD course, and sits on multiple Quality Review Panels. She has also co-authored a book titled 'EcoResponsive Environments' published by Routledge in 2024.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:16 Meet Prachi Rampuria
04:42 The Importance of Collaboration in Tackling Global Challenges
09:16 How Collaboration Can Lead To Innovation
17:16 Overcoming Professional Silos
25:57 Benefits of Collaboration for Small Practices
28:22 Challenges and Solutions in Collaborative Projects
33:23 Future of Collaboration in Architecture
37:48 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
38:46 Favorite Places and Final Thoughts
42:01 Outro and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
Working Together: Teaming up is one of the best ways to solve big problems, like climate change. As a small practice, you can bring in other experts to share ideas and create fresh solutions. Working together can also help you stay flexible and save money by creating teams that fit each project.
Breaking Down Walls: For good teamwork, you need to get rid of “walls” between different job roles. This means respecting other people’s skills, listening closely, and being okay with asking questions if you don’t know something. Building trust and keeping clear communication will help everyone work better together.
New Ideas from Different Minds: New ideas often come when different people share their views. When you collaborate and involve a mix of experts early on, it’s easier to tackle complex issues and find solutions that one team alone might not achieve.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Visit the EcoResponsive Environments Website
Connect with Prachi on LinkedIn
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion...
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Jon shares the excitement for London Build 2024, taking place on 20th - 21st November at London Olympia. Discover why it's the UK's biggest construction show with over 35,000 attendees, 700 speakers, and 450 exhibitors. Jon talks about the opportunity for networking, CPD training workshops, and having some fun! He also invites you to his talk at 10am on Wednesday 20th November at London Build’s Skills & Marketing Hub. Don't miss out - grab your free tickets through the link in the show notes and connect with Jon on social media before London Build 2024.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:43 What Is London Build?
02:14 Why Attend London Build?
03:13 Why Jon Is Excited About London Build
04:50 What Is Jon's London Build Talk About?
05:36 Where & When To Hear Jon's Talk
07:08 Why Attend Jon's Talk?
08:50 How to Get Tickets
10:02 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
What London Build 2024 Is All About: London Build 2024 is the UK’s biggest construction show. You’ll find over 35,000 people there, with more than 700 speakers across 12 stages, plus over 450 exhibitors. It’s packed with activities too: meet-the-buyer sessions, celebrity guests, music, DJs, networking parties, and more. It’s like a full-on festival for the construction world!
Why You Should Go to London Build 2024: This event is more than just a conference—it’s a place to meet people, learn new skills in CPD workshops, and connect with others in the industry. It’s also fun, with live music, a bar, and free entry for everyone. There’s a bit of everything to enjoy!
Jon’s Talk at the Event: Jon is excited to join London Build 2024 and will be giving his first talk at the event. His presentation, "The Simple Way to Stand Out from Your Competitors," covers how to find your niche, use content marketing, and build your personal brand. He’s looking forward to sharing ideas and meeting you at the event.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
👉 Click here to grab your free tickets to London Build 2024 🎁
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
👉 Follow or Connect with Jon on LinkedIn 🤝
👇 And if you enjoyed this episode…
Please leave a 5-star review or rating wherever you listen to podcasts, and don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
In The Next Episode...
Next time Jon chats with architect Prachi Rampuria about the benefits of collaboration, in particular how it can help our industry’s approach to pressing issues like the climate crisis.
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Jon explores architectural communications and business development with Robert Woodburn Park, a communications expert with over 25 years of experience. The discussion spans Robert's journey from working in practice to running his consultancy and the integration of storytelling with visuals in architecture. The conversation examines the evolution from traditional to digital media, providing practical marketing advice for small architectural practices. Topics include effective marketing strategies, the importance of a strategic focus, leveraging social media, and balancing brand building with lead generation. Robert introduces Beedier, a platform offering up-to-the-minute information, research, and news relating to business development, communications, and marketing for architects.
Today's Guest...
Robert Woodburn Park is a seasoned architectural communications expert, providing in-house graphics and marketing leadership for over 25 years for successful studios such as Allies and Morrison, Alison Brooks, PLP Architecture, and JTP. He now runs his own consultancy, and this year launched Beedier.com - a new media platform for architectural business development information.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:52 Personal Interests and Hobbies
04:11 Early Days of Digital Communications in Architecture
09:03 Integrating Storytelling with Visuals
13:03 Transformative Changes in Architectural Communications
22:56 Balancing Brand Building and Lead Generation
29:52 Challenges for Smaller Firms
33:06 Introducing Beedier: A Resource for Architects
35:24 The Importance of Social Media for Architects
39:09 Key Elements of Business Development
42:01 Travel Stories and Favorite Places
45:12 Conclusion and Contact Information
Key Takeaways...
Strategic Communication in Architecture Marketing:
You need to focus your communication on what works best for your architecture practice. This means knowing the right ways to market, like using social media, websites, going to networking events, or getting PR. It helps create a clear and interesting story about your projects.
Balancing Brand Building and Lead Generation:
You should aim to split your marketing spend between building your brand (45%) and finding new clients (55%) to keep your business growing. Building your brand is about getting noticed (through awards, being featured, or being online), while lead generation brings in new projects and clients. Smaller practices should stick to what they’re good at and not try to do too much.
Importance of Storytelling and Visuals:
Telling the story behind your projects is really important. It makes your work more interesting and helps people remember it. Using strong stories with good images can help others better understand and appreciate your work.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
👉 Visit Beedier
🎵 Listen to Beedier’s Alternative 80’s Playlist (curated by Jon) on Spotify 🎵
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural...
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Jon discusses the opportunity and benefits of being a podcast guest with podcast expert, Colin Gray. The conversation covers how to prepare effectively, the importance of standing out with unique viewpoints, and the value of personal stories in connecting with audiences. Additionally, they provide practical advice for pitch strategies, the significance of post-appearance promotion, and insights on content creation for architects. Colin, founder of The Podcast Host and Alitu, shares tools and tips to help prospective guests thrive in their podcast debut and offers resources to aid new podcasters. Colin encourages simplicity, content quality, and authenticity as key elements of successful podcasting.
Today's Guest...
Colin Gray is a podcaster, speaker, PhD, and founder of ThePodcastHost.com and Alitu. ThePodcastHost.com is a huge audio, video, and written resource on how to create a successful show. Alitu.com is a podcast maker tool, designed to help you create your podcast in the easiest way possible, and with full creative control, including call recording, audio cleanup, audio editing, building your episode, and hosting your show.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:28 Meet the Expert: Colin Gray
03:59 The Power of Podcasting for Architects
08:04 Crafting Your Unique Pitch
16:26 Preparing for Your Podcast Debut
21:43 Avoiding Common Podcast Pitfalls
26:24 The Importance of Spontaneity in Podcasting
27:22 Vocal Warm-Ups and Technical Preparations
30:35 Leveraging Podcast Appearances for Growth
38:10 Creating and Promoting Your Own Podcast
43:50 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways
46:54 Favorite Travel Destinations
48:41 Conclusion and Resources
Key Takeaways...
Preparation is Key for Being a Podcast Guest:
Spend time identifying and crafting your unique viewpoints and stories that differentiate you in your industry. Proactively send prep questions to the host, which can guide the conversation and ensure you cover important points during the interview. Plan technical preparations, like testing software, ensuring no updates disrupt the recording, and doing vocal warm-ups to enhance your speaking performance.
Promote and Leverage Your Podcast Appearance:
Actively promote your podcast episode on your social media channels, email list, and website to help grow the show and build a favorable relationship with the host. Use the episode content in various ways, such as embedding it on your website, creating clips for social media, or adding it to playlists to maximise its value and reach. Consider reusing the episode content for your marketing materials or as a feature on your "About Me" page, which can be powerful in showcasing your expertise.
Simplify the Process When Starting Your Own Podcast:
Focus on the content rather than getting bogged down by gear and software choices. Use simple, reliable tools to begin with. Embrace a 'live recording' mindset for the first few episodes to avoid the overwhelming task of editing and improve your speaking skills naturally. Start recording and publishing episodes as quickly as possible to gain experience and feedback, which will help you refine and improve your show over time.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
👉 Get Started Podcasting with (free) resources from The Podcast Host 🎁
👉 Create Your Podcast The Easy Way Using Alitu
👉 Connect with Colin Gray on LinkedIn
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Interested in working with Jon?
👉
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Marketing expert Martin Huntbatch talks about automating lead generation for architecture practices. Jon & Martin explores strategies like using AI tools, creating engaging lead magnets, and driving traffic to digital resources. Martin shares insights on how to bridge the gap between problem-aware and solution-aware clients using content marketing. The episode also covers common mistakes in lead generation and the importance of automation to enhance your firm’s ability to attract new clients efficiently.
Today's Guest...
Martin Huntbach is the Chief Marketing Officer at ScoreApp - An AI-powered lead generation tool. Martin is also the co-founder of Jammy Digital, an award-winning content marketing agency. He also co-authored the best-selling book, Content Fortress, and often speaks about marketing on stages across the country.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:16 Meet the Expert: Martin Huntbach
03:11 Understanding Lead Generation
08:04 Effective Lead Generation Strategies
16:51 Common Mistakes in Lead Generation
20:13 Best Types of Lead Magnets
26:57 Getting Started with Lead Generation
30:42 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
34:13 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Key Takeaways...
Importance of Automation in Lead Generation:
By using tools and developing strategies (like lead magnets) that work on autopilot, businesses can save time and effort, allowing them to focus on other critical aspects of their operations.
Creating Compelling Lead Magnets:
Create valuable and compelling lead magnets that provide prospective clients with tangible benefits in exchange for their contact information. Examples include PDFs, online assessments, and wait lists, all aimed at converting traffic into potential clients effectively.
Consistent Content Creation and Traffic Generation:
Consistently creating and sharing valuable content is important in driving traffic to lead conversion pages. This content helps educate potential clients, builds trust, and keeps the business top-of-mind, eventually leading to increased conversions and business growth.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
👉 Get a (free) video course on lead generation in today’s world 🎁
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
👉 Follow or Connect with Jon on LinkedIn 🤝
👇 And if you enjoyed this episode…
Please leave a 5-star review or rating wherever you listen to podcasts, and don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
In The Next Episode...
Next time Jon chats with Colin Gray about being a podcast guest.
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Jon discusses the importance of attending events like the Chartered Institute of Architectural Technologists' (CIAT) AT Awards, even if you're not a nominee or an architectural technologist. Jon shares his positive experiences from the 2023 AT Awards, highlighting the friendly atmosphere, valuable networking opportunities, and unexpected benefits such as new business connections and professional growth.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:28 Overview of the AT Awards
02:39 Common Misconceptions About the AT Awards
03:10 Personal Experience at the AT Awards
05:23 Networking and Opportunities
08:35 Excitement for the Upcoming AT Awards
09:32 Encouragement to Attend and Final Thoughts
11:33 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
Value of In-Person Networking: Attending events like the AT Awards provides unique opportunities to connect with industry professionals in person, which can lead to unexpected and valuable opportunities, such as meeting online connections, industry leaders, and making new contacts. Jon shares his experience of meeting influential figures and gaining new opportunities, underscoring the benefit of face-to-face interactions over virtual ones.
Dismantling Misconceptions: There are common misconceptions about industry award events, such as they are only for nominees or they are too formal and boring. Jon's personal experience dispels these myths by highlighting the friendly atmosphere, the networking opportunities, and the enjoyable aspects (like free drinks and after-parties!) making a strong case for attending even if you’re not a nominee.
Personal and Professional Growth: Attending events can also serve as a break from the usual routine and promote personal growth. Jon mentions how stepping out of his comfort zone to attend the AT Awards proved beneficial, not only socially and professionally but also by providing inspiration and motivation. These events offer a fresh perspective and new ideas, contributing to the growth of an individual's career and business.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
👉 Click here to grab your ticket for the AT Awards 2024
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
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In The Next Episode...
Next time, Jon is joined by Martin Huntbach to talk about lead generation.
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Jon interviews Fabio Zammit, a seasoned software engineer and entrepreneur. Fabio shares actionable website tips and digital marketing strategies to help small architecture practice owners generate more leads from their online presence. The discussion covers key topics such as SEO, user-friendly website design, showcasing case studies, call-to-action best practices, leveraging social proof, and effective strategies to drive traffic to your website. Whether you're aiming for quick wins or long-term success, this episode provides valuable insights to optimise your architecture practice's online footprint.
Today's Guest...
Fabio Zammit is a seasoned software engineer with over two decades of experience, including stints at industry giants like HSBC and AOL in London. His journey led him to establish Root Codex, an agency designed to fill the gaps he identified in the tech industry. Root Codex specialises in seamlessly integrating top-tier software engineers into your existing tech teams, eliminating the challenges of freelance management and hiring. This approach ensures that businesses can scale up their tech capabilities effortlessly.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:14 Meet Fabio Zammit: Software Engineer and Entrepreneur
02:01 Fabio's House Building Journey
04:25 Importance of Website Design and Layout
06:41 Showcasing Work: Best Practices for Case Studies
11:50 The Role of Social Proof and Testimonials
16:34 Understanding SEO: Basics and Best Practices
23:50 Targeting Keywords: Broad vs. Niche
26:37 Keyword Research Tools: SEMrush and Ahrefs
27:06 Best Practices for Site Speed
28:39 Effective Calls to Action (CTA)
30:51 Mobile-First Approach
35:26 Enhancing Online Credibility
37:51 Driving Traffic: PPC and SEO Strategies
44:52 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways
47:46 Travel Inspirations: Tuscany
48:52 Conclusion and Contact Information
Key Takeaways...
Importance of a User-Friendly Website:
Fabio emphasises the necessity of having a user-friendly and aesthetically pleasing website design. It’s essential your website loads quickly, uses optimised images, and has an intuitive layout. Responsive design is important too, ensuring your website looks good and functions well on mobile devices.
Effective Use of SEO and PPC:
Use long-tail keywords for better targeting and creating fresh, relevant content consistently. Additionally, for quicker results, use pay-per-click (PPC) campaigns tailored to the business’s target audience, whether on platforms like Google, Facebook, or LinkedIn.
Utilising Social Proof and Clear Calls to Action:
Social proof, such as displaying testimonials and Google My Business reviews is important to build trust and credibility. Include clear calls to action (CTAs) throughout your website, making buttons and contact forms easily accessible and visible to guide visitors toward taking the next step.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Visit Fabio’s Website
Connect with Fabio on LinkedIn
Website Tools > Semrush | Ahrefs | HotJar
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore...
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Jon continues his deep dive into mental health within the architecture profession with guest Doug Hodgson. The discussion offers valuable insights into dealing with overwhelm and burnout, as well as practical steps Doug's practice, New-works, has taken to safeguard their team's mental health. The conversation also touches on the broader industry issues, such as the housing crisis, the role of architectural technologists, and the need for significant changes in architectural education and professional collaboration to improve mental well-being across the industry. The episode underscores the importance of a balanced work structure, staying connected to creative work, and fostering a supportive, diverse workplace environment.
Today's Guest...
Doug Hodgson is an Architect and leads the Retrofit agenda for New-works, a practice he co-founded to explore a new way of working, based on the principles of specialism and collaboration, wellbeing and sustainability - with a fundamental belief that wellbeing in the workplace generates better relationships and better architecture. Prior to New-works, Doug had co-founded TDO, was a Design Fellow at Cambridge University, and in 2020 was named in The Architects’ Journal 40 under 40. Doug is passionate about improving mental health and wellbeing, and has found from his own experience of being proudly openly gay that there’s an urgent need for greater kindness, understanding, and inclusion in the construction industry to make the profession more relevant.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:21 Practical Tips for Managing Mental Health
02:17 The Importance of Nature and Breaks
06:42 Challenges in the Architecture Profession
12:57 New-works' Approach to Mental Health
16:59 Advice for Practice Owners
22:32 The Role of Professional Organisations
30:55 Personal Reflections and Favorite Places
33:31 Conclusion and Contact Information
Key Takeaways...
The Importance of Mental Wellbeing and Nature:
- Both Jon Clayton and Doug Hodgson emphasise the critical role mental health plays in the architecture profession. They advocate for taking breaks, spending time in nature, and establishing a structured workday that allows for physical wellness and mental health activities. Doug discusses how a connection to nature and taking time off when feeling overwhelmed can significantly impact mental health positively.
Innovative Work Structure at NewWorks:
- Doug elaborates on the unique work structure at New-works, which reserves time in the morning for physical well-being and the late afternoon for mental well-being, with core creative work happening mid-day. This approach has led to increased efficiency and productivity and illustrates the importance of balancing work with personal well-being.
Collaboration and Diversity in Architecture:
- The conversation touches on the need for more collaboration within the architecture profession, advocating for cross-disciplinary work and better integration with various sectors like architectural technologists. Additionally, Doug emphasises the importance of diversity and inclusivity in the profession and the need for organisations like RIBA to support these initiatives more actively. This includes rethinking education and fostering environments where young professionals from diverse backgrounds can thrive.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Learn more about New-Works
Connect with Doug on LinkedIn
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉
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Jon interviews Doug Hodgson about balancing mental health and professional success in the high-pressure field of architecture. They discuss Doug's experiences and philosophies on workplace wellbeing, sustainability, and collaboration. Doug talks about the impact of his outdoor hobbies and the vital need for greater kindness and inclusion in the industry. The conversation highlights the mental health crisis in architecture, the overwhelming demands on professionals, and the toxic culture in architectural education and practice. Doug emphasises the importance of specialising and collaborating to maintain mental health and professional satisfaction. The episode aims to raise awareness and encourage discussions on improving mental health and wellbeing for architectural professionals.
Today's Guest...
Doug Hodgson is an Architect and leads the Retrofit agenda for New-works, a practice he co-founded to explore a new way of working, based on the principles of specialism and collaboration, wellbeing and sustainability - with a fundamental belief that wellbeing in the workplace generates better relationships and better architecture. Prior to New-works, Doug had co-founded TDO, was a Design Fellow at Cambridge University, and in 2020 was named in The Architects’ Journal 40 under 40. Doug is passionate about improving mental health and wellbeing, and has found from his own experience of being proudly openly gay that there’s an urgent need for greater kindness, understanding, and inclusion in the construction industry to make the profession more relevant.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:02 Meet Doug Hodgson: Redefining Workplace Wellbeing
02:11 The Allotment: A Sanctuary During COVID
05:40 Sustainability and Regenerative Materials in Architecture
06:39 The Mental Health Crisis in Architecture
12:02 The Impact of Architectural Education on Wellbeing
21:46 Specialisation and Collaboration: A New Approach
28:55 Next Steps
Key Takeaways...
Importance of Mental Health in Architecture:
- The interview emphasises the critical state of mental health within the architecture profession. Jon and Doug discuss how overwhelming workloads, long hours, and unrealistic expectations can severely impact mental and physical well-being, leading to burnout.
Need for Industry-wide Change:
- To address the mental health crisis, a structural change is necessary within the profession and its education system. Doug highlights that the root of many mental health issues stems from the highly demanding and often abusive culture of architectural education. This oppressive environment is carried into professional practice, resulting in exploitative working conditions. Reform in both education and professional practices is needed.
Specialisation and Collaboration:
- Doug advocates for architects to specialise in areas they are passionate about and excel in, rather than trying to cover all aspects of a project. Collaborative efforts between specialised practices can lead to more effective and enjoyable work environments. This approach can help mitigate the overwhelming demands often placed on individual architects, contributing to better mental health and work-life balance.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Learn more about New-Works
Connect with Doug on LinkedIn
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him...
-
Jon discusses the importance and benefits of Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems for solo and small firm architecture practice owners. The episode covers the basics of CRM systems, their key features, and how they can help automate tasks, manage client communications, and streamline operations. Jon also offers advice on selecting the right CRM for different practice sizes and provides tips for successful implementation and consistent use.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:24 Understanding CRM Systems
03:09 Benefits of CRM for Architecture Practices
04:44 Key Features to Look for in a CRM
06:02 Choosing the Right CRM for Your Practice
08:32 Implementing a CRM System Successfully
12:07 Optimising your CRM for Long-Term Success
13:30 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
The Importance of CRM Systems:
CRM (Customer Relationship Management) systems are key for architecture practices, regardless of size. They help manage client relationships, streamline communications, and automate routine tasks, which is essential for maintaining strong relationships over long project timelines and improving overall efficiency.
Key Features and Choosing the Right CRM:
Not all CRMs are created equal, and it's important to choose one that fits the specific needs of your practice. Key features to look for might include project tracking, communication history, automation for repetitive tasks, and integration with other software like AutoCAD or Revit. The choice of CRM should consider factors such as the scale of projects, team size, budget, and specific business goals.
Implementation and Optimisation:
Successful implementation of a CRM involves setting clear goals, training your team, and ensuring accurate data migration. Consistent use and regular review of CRM data to identify trends can help refine processes over time. This consistent use is key to keeping sales and project pipelines full and moving, ultimately adding value to your practice.
—--
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources…
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
👉 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
👉 Follow or Connect with Jon on LinkedIn 🤝
👇 And if you enjoyed this episode…
Please leave a 5-star review or rating wherever you listen to podcasts, and don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
In The Next Episode...
Next time Jon chats with architect, Doug Hodgson about mental health and wellbeing in architecture.
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Jon discusses how architecture practices can escape the feast and famine cycle by using launches as part of their marketing strategy. He is joined by Sigrun, an award-winning business coach, best-selling author, and entrepreneur, who explains the power of launching to create a steady and predictable pipeline of work. Sigrun shares her journey from studying architecture to becoming a leading business mentor and outlines how architects can implement launches to grow their practices. The episode also touches on the potential for architects to create online courses as an additional revenue stream. Sigrun offers practical insights into creating excitement through events, addressing common misconceptions, and the stages involved in the launch process.
Today's Guest...
Sigrun is an award-winning business coach, bestselling author, and multiple 7 figure entrepreneur. She is on a mission to accelerate gender equality through female entrepreneurship. She’s been called the leading business mentor for online entrepreneurs in Europe, is a TEDx speaker, and host of the top-rated Sigrun Show podcast. Sigrun’s online business journey started shortly after finishing her master’s degree in architecture. She’s since been featured in Forbes and numerous leading media publications in Europe and has won 5 Stevie Awards; as the Hero of the year, Entrepreneur of the year, Solo entrepreneur of the year, Manager of the year, and Sales Achievement of the year.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:44 Meet Sigrun: Business Coach and Entrepreneur
04:37 Sigrun's Journey from Architecture to Online Business
19:22 The Concept of Launching Explained
23:15 The Power of Limited Editions
24:17 Creating Urgency in Marketing
25:40 Addressing Skepticism in Service Businesses
28:01 Effective Launch Strategies for Service Businesses
29:39 Stages of a Successful Launch
33:53 Leveraging Digital Products for Architects
34:28 Success Story: Zero Energy Buildings
38:59 Final Thoughts on Launching
41:50 Exploring Iceland: A Personal Favorite
44:02 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
The Power of Launching:
Launching is a marketing strategy that creates excitement and urgency around a product or service. By planning and executing a well-structured launch, you can significantly boost their sales in a short period. This approach works for is applicable not only to products but also to services and can lead to a more efficient and effective way of attracting and retaining clients.
Building Expertise and Authority:
Sharing expertise through online courses or digital products can enhance a business's authority in its field. By teaching others, businesses not only diversify their income streams but also attract new clients who recognize their expertise. This dual benefit can lead to increased business through both educational content and traditional service offerings.
Creating Urgency and Scarcity:
Communicating limited availability of services or spots creates a sense of urgency and encourages prospective clients to act quickly. This strategy is particularly effective in service-based businesses, as it ensures that potential clients do not delay making a decision, which can help in maintaining a steady flow of work and avoiding peaks and troughs in workloads.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Get Sigrun’s Book ‘Kickstart Your Online Business’ Now - For Free 🎁
Visit Sigrun’s Website
Sigrun on Facebook
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Jon is joined by Melanie Boylan, an award-winning social media trainer and Google Business Profile specialist. Melanie explains how optimising Google Business Profiles can significantly enhance online visibility for architecture firms. The episode covers the basics and benefits of Google Business Profiles, including step-by-step guidance on setup, optimisation tips, and unique features like FAQs and call-to-action options. Melanie also shares how to leverage tools for consistent posting and answers listener questions about managing profiles efficiently. Melanie also shares her personal interest in space and science, and her experiences sharing this passion with her family. The episode ends with insights about the benefits of having a well-optimised online presence and practical advice for small architecture firms to get started.
Today's Guest...
Melanie Boylan is an award-winning Social Media Trainer, Digital Marketer, Speaker, Journalist and award-winning Podcaster with The Monday Morning Marketing Podcast and has been training and managing social media accounts for business since 2013.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:15 Meet Melanie Boyland: Social Media and Google Business Profile Expert
01:50 Melanie's Passion for Space and Science
05:08 The Importance of Google Business Profiles for Architects
07:54 Setting Up and Optimising Your Google Business Profile
11:43 Maximising the Benefits of Google Business Profiles
18:37 Posting and Managing Your Google Business Profile
25:23 Final Tips and Recommendations
33:22 Conclusion and Farewell
Key Takeaways...
Importance of Having a Website and Google Business Profile:
- Having a website provides a central hub for all your business information and content. A Google Business Profile complements your website by improving your search engine visibility and making it easier for potential clients to find and contact you.
- A simple and clear website is often sufficient for service businesses, and a Google Business Profile can greatly enhance your online presence by presenting your business in Google search results and Maps.
Fully Optimising Your Google Business Profile:
- Fully optimising your profile involves more than just setting it up; it requires filling out all available fields, regularly posting updates, and encouraging client reviews.
- Regularly check and update the profile to ensure accuracy and relevance. Google may add categories based on how people find you, so it's important to review these periodically to manage customer expectations and avoid misunderstandings.
Leveraging Google Business Profile Features for Engagement:
- Google Business Profile allows for various types of posts, including text, images, videos, and even scheduling links, which can drive engagement and facilitate easy contact with clients.
- Features such as call-to-action buttons, FAQ sections, and review management can significantly streamline the customer journey, making it easier for them to contact you directly from the search results, thus enhancing user experience and increasing the likelihood of converting inquiries into clients.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Visit Melanie’s Website
Connect with Melanie on LinkedIn
---
Interested in working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with...
-
Jon chats with Jackie Goddard, a voice and acting coach. They explore the benefits of public speaking for architects and architecture practice owners, offering practical tips to overcome the fear of public speaking. Jackie, who has extensive experience in acting and coaching, shares her insights on how effective communication can aid in personal and business growth. They also discuss the significance of storytelling, preparation, and the three B's method: Believe, Breathe, and Be Prepared.
Today's Guest...
Jackie Goddard is a former fashion designer and recovering actor who’s spent 30 years working in and around the arts, most recently as a voice and acting coach. Through her company, Power to Speak, Jackie now works with entrepreneurs, business leaders & teams to make them excited about sharing their ideas and developing their Power To Speak. She is often asked to speak to audiences about public speaking, but also to share her thoughts on topics like the acting process, resilience, joy, and failure. Since 2020 Jackie has hosted a podcast, talking to speakers, authors, actors, & entrepreneurs to discover how they use their voice, story, and creativity for their work & wellbeing.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:22 Meet Jackie Goddard
03:34 The Benefits of Public Speaking for Architects
06:29 Overcoming the Fear of Public Speaking
11:13 Transforming Fear into Excitement
15:55 The Power of Storytelling in Public Speaking
21:18 First Steps to Public Speaking
27:29 The Three B's of Public Speaking
31:38 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
32:45 Favorite Places and Farewell
Key Takeaways...
Preparation is Key:
- Jackie emphasises the importance of thorough preparation in overcoming the fear of public speaking. Getting all your thoughts out on paper, organising them, and practicing out loud with someone are crucial steps. Preparation helps to internalise the content, making it easier to present with confidence and fluidity.
The Power of Storytelling:
- Incorporating stories into your public speaking can make your message more memorable and engaging. Personal stories are particularly effective because they are easier for the speaker to remember and help build a connection with the audience. The essence is to tell stories that resonate with the audience, not just boast about personal achievements.
Shifting Mindset from Fear to Excitement:
- Jackie explains that anxiety and excitement are physiologically similar, and by changing your mindset to see the act of public speaking as an exciting opportunity rather than a daunting task, you can improve your performance. Believing in what you are talking about and focusing on the positive outcomes can transform nervous energy into enthusiasm.
Links Mentioned In The Episode...
Grab Jackie’s (free) guide: ‘Speak With Confidence 101’
Visit Jackie’s Website
Connect with Jackie on LinkedIn
Curious about working with Jon?
👉 Book a chat with Jon to explore working with him 📞
Resources...
👉 Grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step...
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Jon shares insights into his work supporting small practice founders and sole practitioners in the architecture industry. He discusses his coaching, consulting, and mentoring services designed to help architecture businesses achieve their goals. Jon highlights the various ways he assists clients, from strategic planning and marketing to financial forecasting and team building. Real client stories illustrate how his tailored approach has helped small practices overcome challenges and grow. Listeners are invited to connect with Jon for personalised support and to explore potential collaborations.
Episode Highlights...
00:00 Introduction
01:13 Services Offered Beyond the Podcast
06:42 Client Success Stories
11:21 How to Work with Jon
13:37 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
Key Takeaways...
Personalised Support for Small Architecture Practices:
Jon provides personalised one-to-one support for small practice founders and sole practitioners. This includes coaching, consulting, and mentoring services tailored to each client's unique needs, helping them achieve goals such as growing their practice, working fewer hours, or building their team.
Real-Life Client Success Stories:
Jon shares real-life examples of how he's helped clients overcome specific challenges. These stories illustrate practical solutions and strategies, such as improving time management, integrating specialised services like retrofit and low-energy design, enhancing marketing tactics, and developing new business plans aligned with long-term goals.
Initial Engagement Process for New Clients:
Emphasising the importance of a good fit, Jon explains the initial engagement process for prospective clients. This involves one or two initial meetings, usually held on Zoom, to understand your needs and decide if he’s a good fit for you. This ensures that both parties are aligned and that Jon can effectively support your business objectives.
—--
👇 Book a chat with Jon to explore working 1-2-1 with him 📞
https://tidycal.com/mrjonclayton/quick-chat
—--
👇 Click the link below to grab the Architecture Business Blueprint 🎁
It’s the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural technologists, and architectural designers. Get it today (without any charge).
https://architecturebusinessclub.com/blueprint
👇 Join our (free) WhatsApp Discussion Group 🎁
https://chat.whatsapp.com/BtFJsJF6iL37vUb5tHNpkI
👇 And if you enjoyed this episode…
Please leave a 5-star review or rating wherever you listen to podcasts, and don’t forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
👇 Follow or Connect with Jon on LinkedIn at...
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrjonclayton/
In The Next Episode...
Next time Jon chats with Jackie Goddard to discuss the benefits of public speaking.
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