Nava Atlas

9 Aug · Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

Nava Atlas is an American cookbook author and illustrator known for her work on the groundbreaking and inventive “Vegetariana” and her “Vegan Soups and Stews For All Seasons,” now in its fourth edition.

Truly a pioneer in the culinary world, activism, literature, and art, Vegetariana first hit bookshelves in 1984. Now, 37 years later, Nava’s premier work encompassing recipes, food lore, and imaginative illustrations has been reborn for a whole new generation of compassionate cooks.

Nava’s “Vegan Soups and Stews For All Seasons,” features 120 Vegan Soup and Stew recipes that have been tried and true over the last 25 years. Nava’s vegan chicken noodle soup is one of her favorite recipes from the book. Here is the recipe from her blog, The Vegan Atlas and make sure to follow her substack newsletter at The Vegan Atlas

and Literary Ladies Guide is at

Whether you’re looking for a colorful global stew or a refreshing cold soup, there’s something for every soup lover in these pages.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Stephanie [00:00:11]:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to people obsessed with food, and we do talk to a lot of cookbook authors, and I feel pretty honored today. I'm with, I feel like, a living legend, not only in the vegetarian category, but vegan category, and also a fellow soup lover, which is so exciting. Good morning, Nava. How are you? Welcome to the show, Nava Hatless.

Nava Atlas [00:00:35]:

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here, and I'll tell you why in a moment.

Stephanie [00:00:41]:

Okay. So let us talk because you have Vegetariana was one of your first books, which is

Nava Atlas [00:00:48]:

This is my first.

Stephanie [00:00:49]:

Okay. And it is a hoot. It has, like, these hand drawn illustrations, little bits of wisdom throughout. It is really a well done book, and it was reissued in the last couple of years and made all completely vegan. Did you go vegan later in life? Or tell me about that transition.

Nava Atlas [00:01:08]:

It was exactly, I would say, 20. I go by my son's age because he was 10 when he went vegan, and now he's 32. So it's always easy for me to keep track. So, yeah, 22 years vegan. I was vegetarian since high school. So I was kind of an early adopter, not necessarily on the veganism side of it, but, you know, I remember even in being a weirdo as a vegetarian back then. And also I was gonna say that, you know, I've really seen this whole progression from analog to digital and, you know, wanting to familiarize myself with you, your work, your podcast. I went straight to and, of course, I'm going to forget.

Nava Atlas [00:01:51]:

Oh, John Kung. Yeah. And he was talking about Detroit, and I was so thrilled because I grew up right outside Detroit.

Stephanie [00:02:02]:

My radio partner grew up outside Detroit too. And I really I love Detroit. I visited and had, like, 4 very memorable days in my life.

Nava Atlas [00:02:14]:

It is an amazing city, and it's an an amazing transformation. The last time I was there was not that long ago. It was maybe a year ago a year ago, June. Sure. And, my friend was showing me around central downtown, and then I saw an article. I'm not sure if it was in New York Times or elsewhere statistic that statistic that says that downtown Detroit is actually safer than San Francisco.

Stephanie [00:02:46]:

Oh, I believe that. Yeah. I absolutely believe that. It is a really cool place to visit. The farmer's market alone was just mind blowing to me. So many just sheds upon sheds of makers, and I've always loved maker culture and people that make products, and I have podcasts about that too. And really just enjoy the craft of people making food and how hard they have to work and how delicious it is.

Nava Atlas [00:03:15]:

And so many vegan restaurants, you know, for me, that's really my interest. And, one that had started when I was in college in Ann Arbor, I am a University of Michigan graduate, was Ceva, and now they have that beautiful place in downtown Detroit that is delicious. It is, you know, expensive on a par with New York, still very much worth it. But I, you know, I'm really glad to see the city thriving because the city has been through so much. Yeah. And I have to admit, I did not get to Eastern Market on my last visit because I also really wanted to save some time to go to Ann Arbor, my alma mater, and see how I haven't been to Ann Arbor for a longer time and how that has transformed. It looks like a little city now. And then Royal Oak looks like Ann Arbor did when I went to something there.

Stephanie [00:04:02]:

It's funny. Yeah. So veganism, I will say so I do eat meat, and I knew people that were vegans, and I knew it was a thing. And, obviously, being in the food world, you're paying attention to trends. And, obviously, eating plant based is super beneficial health wise. And then I started working on my TV show, and my executive producer is vegan. And I just really felt like I had my eyes opened to what it really means to, like, live a vegan lifestyle. And for her, she's been doing it like you for so long.

Stephanie [00:04:42]:

It's just like, oh, I just don't eat meat. It's really no big deal at all. And we are so fortunate now in that we have so many choices and so many options in our food world. Writing a cookbook that's vegan specific to soup, I thought was probably not as hard as people think because a lot of soups are vegan if you're using a vegetable broth.

Nava Atlas [00:05:03]:

Right. They're vegan. So many soups are vegan already, and soup is a very plant forward type of food, maybe second only to salad.

Stephanie [00:05:12]:

Yeah. Exactly. And that's kinda how I think about soup because I make a lot of soup, but I also make a lot because I cook a lot. So I have all of the vegetable scraps and the broths and the little dribs and drabs of things that I'm always throwing into a soup. When you put your cookbook together, was it hard for you to think about, like, okay, what recipes am I gonna put in? What am I not?

Nava Atlas [00:05:34]:

So this book, like Vegetariana, has a long history. What you're holding in your hands now is the 5th edition. I've heard. Yeah. So I think I published it. I I had an agent back then, not the same one I have now, and she said, oh, you know, publishers are saying this is just too niche. It's too specific. Couldn't find a publisher.

Nava Atlas [00:05:54]:

So I thought, you know what? I'll publish it myself. And at the time, it was it was actually so many more people are self publishing now, but it was easier back then like a lot of things. It was a very small, really diminutive hand drawn book, and it did very well. So once I had proved myself, it was picked up by Little Brown. Then it went out of print at Little Brown. I went back to self publishing it. That same editor went to Random House, so she picked it up again, and then it went out of print. It you know, none of the additions before this one had as many photographs and they weren't designed as beautifully as I would have liked.

Nava Atlas [00:06:38]:

So it was really nice to get the whole process back into my hands.

Stephanie [00:06:42]:

The book is really beautiful. So did you publish this version yourself?

Nava Atlas [00:06:47]:

This one I did because, you know, after the 4th edition, it's the likelihood of another publisher publishing something that's been in and out of print so many times is probably close to nil. Even though it has sold lots of copies, you know, people want to move on to the new thing, to the fresh thing, and it's understandable.

Stephanie [00:07:06]:

I'm pretty impressed by that. Not only that you're in your 5th edition, but as a cookbook writer myself who does publish the more traditional route, you're probably, financially, it's a much better, amount of money per book that you make probably publishing yourself than going through a publishing house.

Nava Atlas [00:07:28]:

I was going to say maybe per book for the copies that you're lucky to sell, but, you know, really at a disadvantage from the perspective of distribution. That's a big thing. Yep. I have a good distributor, but, you know, I I feel I felt like, you know, I just want a beautiful edition of this book before I leave this mortal coil. But as far as making lots of money, no. I would say to your listeners, that's not the way to get rich.

Stephanie [00:07:58]:

Yeah. No. I just see, I think about it from the perspective of, like, okay. A traditional book, the author probably makes anywhere from 3 to $7 a copy.

Nava Atlas [00:08:09]:

Less than that.

Stephanie [00:08:10]:

Okay. And then a published book that you publish yourself, people say that you can make anywhere from 15 to $22 a copy.

Nava Atlas [00:08:19]:

Oh, maybe connect me with those people. I'd like to see where they got that information. Because Okay. You know, you're not doing huge printing, so your per unit cost is not great. Right. And also, I didn't wanna print overseas because, you know, that's another thing in itself and the books have to be printed way ahead of time. Yes. And so I did it domestically, which I think they did a beautiful job.

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Stephanie [00:08:42]:

It is beautiful. But the per

Nava Atlas [00:08:43]:

unit cost is going to be a little bit more. But, you know, this was a, a labor of love, I would say, to get it into print in a fashion that I'm really happy with. Because I do like you, I absolutely love soup. I think that I would say it's my very favorite category of food and eating. It just it's so digestible. And like I said, with the title, soups and stews for all seasons, you make them every time. If your people think of it fall, winter, but I love a cold summer soup. There's nothing more refreshing for dinner than, you know, when it's a warm evening like the summer we've had this past summer to have a a really delicious cold soup.

Stephanie [00:09:26]:

And like gazpacho can be revelatory. Right?

Nava Atlas [00:09:30]:

Absolutely. And a lot of these soups also, I would say in my summer chapter, about half of them are no cook. So that's great for those times where you feel like you just don't wanna turn on a single burner. Watermelon gazpacho is one of my newer favorites.

Stephanie [00:09:45]:

I did not see that in there. I'll have to look back. That sounds really interesting to me. Chilled soup is always a little I don't get there. I get there when it's really hot. I just don't think about it unless it's super hot.

Nava Atlas [00:10:00]:

I have a few that are good hot or cold. Like, one that I made not long ago, it's called tangy cold potato spinach soup.

Stephanie [00:10:08]:

And that's literally just open to that.

Nava Atlas [00:10:10]:

Oh, yeah. That it that's really good hot or cold. That could be, you know, had in the fall, nice and warm or hot. And then the next one also, cold creamy leek and potato soup because you do think leeks is a little bit more of a fall or spring vegetable. And I would say sometimes I just I don't even pay attention to the chapters. If I feel like having a winter soup in the summer, I'll do that or vice versa. You know? Well, I wouldn't have a a summer cold summer soup in the winter. But reverse, yes.

Stephanie [00:10:39]:

Yeah. Same. I was just at my cabin. It was 80 degrees, and I made, chicken broccoli soup because I just was hungry for it. Yeah. Let's talk about some of the stews. And you it feels like there's some global influences kind of in here, some Thai influences, perhaps some African influences. How do you get your ideas for recipes?

Nava Atlas [00:11:05]:

Well, if it's a it's globally influenced, I'm influenced by what I have when I go out to eat. And if I go out to eat, I like to have things that I haven't had at home or don't normally make at home, but then it's so much fun to try to recreate it in your own kitchen. And now, you know, supermarkets are a veritable feast of international ingredients, which is great. One of my favorites, my absolute favorite, what I call my favorite food hacks because I'm really lazy when it comes to Indian cuisine Mhmm. Is, simmer sauce. Mhmm. Indian. Have you ever tried any of the those?

Stephanie [00:11:42]:

Yeah. I have. Yep.

Nava Atlas [00:11:44]:

They're amazing. They really take anything you put them on tastes like it came from the best Indian restaurant because I am just simply too lazy to do the grinding 20 spices

Stephanie [00:11:54]:

and For sure.

Nava Atlas [00:11:55]:

You need to you'd get those complex flavors. It's not just about dumping some curry powder into something. So that has been really wonderful. And then in the last couple years, I would say I've really fallen in love with kimchi. Yes. Me too. Just how good it is for us. So the kimchi

Stephanie [00:12:14]:

to get past the idea like it smells. Right? When you open that first jar

Nava Atlas [00:12:20]:

or first do. Yeah.

Stephanie [00:12:22]:

Just sort of like, ugh. It's just got that really heavily fermented smell. But then when you use it, it doesn't taste like it smells at all.

Nava Atlas [00:12:30]:

It definitely mellows. And, you know, there are 2 types of kimchi. There is a kimchi made with fish sauce and I'm not I'm just guessing that might have more of the aroma.

Stephanie [00:12:39]:

Yeah.

Nava Atlas [00:12:39]:

And so I get the vegan kimchi. And again, I have a kimchi soup here and the list might look a little longer. I'm not a big fan of huge long ingredient list, by the way. A little bit longer than my usual, but it's still so easy, and it's one of those soups that's on the table in 30 minutes.

Stephanie [00:12:58]:

And which one is it?

Nava Atlas [00:12:59]:

The kimchi soup on page 63.

Stephanie [00:13:02]:

Alright. I'm just gonna take a look at that while we're sitting here too. Alright. And then stews, was that purposeful to include stews or is that just because soups kind of are like sue stews too.

Nava Atlas [00:13:15]:

You know, I have always called stews soups with a chunkier texture and a little more attitude.

Stephanie [00:13:23]:

Okay. That's a good way to describe it. I like it.

Nava Atlas [00:13:26]:

Right. So I have here this Italian mixed vegetable stew with the gnocchi, and the gnocchi tend to absorb a little bit more of the broth, so it becomes more stew like. And then I think in one of the later chapters, I have a a Thai vegetable stew with a peanut base. They're just so adaptable. You can you know, if you don't like stew like textures, you just put a little bit more liquid or water and it becomes you're back to a soup.

Stephanie [00:13:54]:

When I was looking at this easy laksa soup, the Southeast Asian influence there, I'm gonna be going to Southeast Asia in January.

Nava Atlas [00:14:03]:

Oh, really? I've never

Stephanie [00:14:04]:

been, and I was

Nava Atlas [00:14:05]:

Oh, wow.

Stephanie [00:14:06]:

There's so many delicious soups in their culture.

Nava Atlas [00:14:09]:

Absolutely. In fact, my nieces and nephews were just telling me a story that they were in, I believe it was Thailand, and they said by the end of their visit, they didn't wanna see another noodle again. Yep. There are a lot

Stephanie [00:14:21]:

of noodles in the Thailand for sure.

Nava Atlas [00:14:24]:

I don't think it would I would ever tire of that though.

Stephanie [00:14:27]:

How did you get started in cookbook writing?

Nava Atlas [00:14:30]:

That is a very interesting story. In high school, like I said I was kind of the the oddball vegetarian both at school and in my family. Don't really remember what gave me that notion other than you know, I just never liked meat. My mom did this kind of bland Eastern European cooking. And I don't know, I think I was a little bit early for the hippie era, but I was kind of a wannabe. So I decided to go vegetarian. And my mom said, well, I'm not going to cook 2 meals. If you wanna be a vegetarian, you're gonna have to cook for yourself thinking that that would put a an end to it.

Nava Atlas [00:15:07]:

Yeah. But I really took to it. I really enjoyed it. And back then, we didn't have these beautiful supermarkets or whole foods or where these dusty health food stores.

Stephanie [00:15:18]:

Oh, I remember.

Nava Atlas [00:15:19]:

Yeah. Where it was probably 70% vitamins and potions and maybe a little bit, you know, and then brown things that you'd buy by the by the pound.

Stephanie [00:15:30]:

Yes.

Nava Atlas [00:15:30]:

But we just loved it. So I bought the the brown lentils and the brown oat groats and what not that we had, and I had so much fun with it. Then, when I got married rather early on in life, my husband really wanted to be a vegetarian, but he was absolutely no cook. Still isn't. You can make a good salad, but that's about it's his limit. So we would go out once in a while. We lived in New York City at the time, and I'd like to recreate things at home or just concoct. And he said, you really need to write this one down.

Nava Atlas [00:16:02]:

You need to write this one down, and I'll write this one down. And after a while, I found myself with a lot of recipes. I was, oh, I was a trained, never trained as a chef. In fact, sometimes people introduce me as a chef and I say, that's very nice of you, but it's an insult to chefs.

Stephanie [00:16:19]:

Yeah. I feel similarly. I'm just so well cooked.

Nava Atlas [00:16:22]:

Right. Exactly. I was a trained graphic designer and illustrator. And in fact, the book you're holding, one of them, Vegetariana, I designed and illustrated. And the design and the illustrations are very similar, identical, really, almost identical to the original edition, But with some additional new illustrations that I did, this was what I called my COVID project When we were inside for 2 years, I did a lot of new illustrations for it. And that's when I veganized it.

Stephanie [00:16:55]:

It's really it's a super lovely book. It's different than any other cookbook because it has just so much personality, but yet the recipes look super delicious too. It's like every page, I feel like I turn it, and it's a new discovery.

Nava Atlas [00:17:08]:

Oh, thank you. And I also call it the kind of cookbook that you can read in bed. Because there's a lot of stories and folklore and food lore and food history, which also kind of fascinates me. How I started writing was I did accumulate a lot of recipes. We were a starving artist couple in New York City back then. I remember going to a lecture by some well known graphic designer whose name, of course, I no longer remember, but he said, if you're a freelancer, unless you do something for yourself that's completely your own, you're gonna be just going from job to job to job. And I thought, that really resonated. So I thought why don't I try to put this together as a book.

Nava Atlas [00:17:53]:

And back then everything was analog. There was just phones. In fact, there was only landlines. And I was so shy. I was it was really a miracle that I was able to be a freelance illustrator and graphic designer because back then, the way to do it was to cold call and make an appointment with the art director and schlep the literal huge portfolio. So I had to make a, you know, what I thought was a proposal and make, you know, make a copy of it and send it off to and I sent it to 1 publisher, And they kept it for 6 months before saying no. And at that point, again, I read about how the publishing process worked. I was completely naive, and it said, you've got to find an agent.

Nava Atlas [00:18:41]:

I thought, how am I, one of the shyest people on earth, going to find an agent? So my husband actually took my my really rough proposal to a copy shop across from where our studio was, our art studio. And the guy behind the counter said, oh, what is this? It looks really interesting. And my husband told him, he said, oh, my girlfriend is an agent. So he gave me her number. But of course I had to call them on a landline with my hand and my voice shaking. And they said, well, you can, you know, mail it or you can drop it off, but we know we're not looking right now, and it could take several weeks or several months. And I said to my husband, I can't do this. Can you take it up? They were also in New York City.

Nava Atlas [00:19:29]:

Can you take it up there for me? So he did, and he came back and he said, oh, they weren't very nice, and they had a dog, and he was barking at me. And I said, well, this doesn't sound good. Well, the very next morning, my landline was ringing. And they said, oh, we love this and we wanna represent it. And I think within a few weeks, they'd sold it to one of the top cookbook editors in New York City. But, honestly, I was just too young and too dumb to really appreciate what, you know, synchronicity, luck, maybe some talent, of course. We have to own that about ourselves as women, but I didn't believe it at the time. And, it was, you know, the rest as they say is history.

Stephanie [00:20:13]:

It really what a great story. I love hearing that because anybody in the publishing world finding an agent is just like finding a needle in a hay stack, and then getting the book bought by the publisher is another needle. And even, you know, if you have good publishers, some people have bad experiences. The publishing industry has changed since COVID. It's just changed so dramatically.

Nava Atlas [00:20:34]:

Yes. I mean, there has always been, I would say, you know we always think everything back then was better not necessarily. You see in vegetariana the drawings are very delicate

Stephanie [00:20:45]:

Yeah. And

Nava Atlas [00:20:46]:

white. Well, when I first saw my book in print, I cried, but not from happiness. They had inked the drawing so heavily and that some of the pages were actually sticking together.

Stephanie [00:20:58]:

Aw.

Nava Atlas [00:20:58]:

So it was an epic nightmare. But they did they corrected everything for the second printing, and the book was actually very successful. And it led me to my second, and then I thought, well, this is a great way for a starving artist to make money. Yeah. And, you know, you know, I was very dedicated at the time to vegetarianism as much as right now, I'm even more dedicated to veganism for many, many reasons. But, you know, what you say is right. I feel like and I can't give the name on the air, but I've been so blessed with my agent.

Stephanie [00:21:29]:

Mhmm.

Nava Atlas [00:21:30]:

And it is, again, sometimes it's a matter of luck or timing and and persistence. Persistence is a very important ingredient.

Stephanie [00:21:39]:

And I love this story about you putting yourself out there because we're in this kind of weird age. And I I'm am I like the the where we're at, but it's different in that now, so many people that are getting, you know, 6 figure advanced cookbook deals are influencers or have a huge following on social media. And what I find more often than not, many of them are great, but also what you the skill sets that you need to be a good social media influencer are not necessarily the same skill sets that you need to be a good cookbook author. So you can do great hands videos and 5 ingredients or less or they the publishers now just look like how many social media followers do they have. Are they on TikTok? Are they doing these videos? And that's kind of how you get the deal. I hope that we still can have some of the other types of books that are more labor of loves and are single themed or are unique and different in that way. And I'm worried we might lose some of that, and it's all gonna be gonna come about a personality.

Nava Atlas [00:22:51]:

Yeah. All of what you say is a 100% correct. And in fact, when I was, listening to your podcast with John Kung, and he was saying he has 2,000,000 followers on TikTok. Well, I have 0 followers on TikTok because I'm not on TikTok, and I have nothing against it. In fact, I think it's great. I think when people can kind of build their own platform, it's just wonderful. But aside from doing cookbooks, I'm also a a writer, a nonfiction writer. I run 2 websites, and I feel like there's just so many hours in a day and just so many skill sets and hats that one person can wear.

Stephanie [00:23:26]:

Yeah. And some of the, I mean, some of the fast quick hand photography or videography or even just, like, doing videos on YouTube. Thank god for me because as a home cook, you know, I don't know. I don't have good knife skills. I am really just like your next door neighbor that's cooking you food and has a reasonably funny personality, but that's about all I got. So it's it's fun to be able to make a career with those skills. Yes. But I also I do understand that, you know, there are people like the Ina Garten's of the world who we need to make room for them too because even though maybe, you know, she does she has a lot of people on TikTok and all that now.

Stephanie [00:24:11]:

But in the day, she didn't. And her books are really well researched and really well put together. It's kind of an exciting time, but it's also a time where there's a lot for a lot of different types of people. And young people too. Like, what makes I mean, my daughter's 25, and she's really into cooking. But she cooks things I would never cook. Like, she will make her own bagels. I would no more near make my own bagel and boil it.

Stephanie [00:24:36]:

And I just, you know, that's not really what I do, but I'm so impressed that she does it. She'll do the 4 day project cooking, you know, the making the steamed bao buns and just doing all kinds of fun stuff.

Nava Atlas [00:24:49]:

That's wonderful, though. My daughter has become a really good seitan maker. Are you familiar with it?

Stephanie [00:24:55]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nava Atlas [00:24:55]:

And and it's my recipe and I've really refined it. But I thought sometimes it just feels like such a project to me. I'm so glad that she likes to do it. Yeah. It's very useful.

Stephanie [00:25:07]:

So is your whole family vegan and vegetarian?

Nava Atlas [00:25:11]:

I would say, you know, yes. In fact, we went vegan at the same time. My husband has kind of gone in and out of having eggs. So when he has eggs, he's a vegetarian, but both of my kids, my kids were raised vegetarian. Neither of them, and they are not young anymore. Neither of them have ever tasted meat in their life.

Stephanie [00:25:31]:

Oh, that's so funny. I can't even imagine that because we just eat so much beef in the Midwest. What I will say, this producer that I was talking to you about that's vegan, she started raising chickens. And she had all these eggs, and eventually, she started eating the eggs. And then she ended up getting rid of the chicken, so she's off the eggs again. But it it it was interesting to hear, like, how she came to even incorporating eggs into her life. She was just like, I have all these eggs. I hate the waste.

Nava Atlas [00:26:02]:

Right. And, you know, when you have chickens, they're gonna lay eggs.

Stephanie [00:26:05]:

Yeah. So, you know, I

Nava Atlas [00:26:06]:

have a friend who raises backyard chickens and, you know, she's giving them usually to my a lot of times to my husband. And it's nice to know that they're eggs that are raised too mainly, you know, where they came from and everything.

Stephanie [00:26:18]:

If you had to say a favorite recipe for you in the vegan soups and stews book, you kind of already said, the one. I just before we wrap up, is there a book or is there a recipe that feels really personal to you or something that you feel like is a signature just of yours?

Nava Atlas [00:26:39]:

I just opened to 1, the mock chicken noodle soup. So chicken noodle soup with c h I c k apostrophe n. Yes. And subtitle is kinda like my mom's but without the bird. So this uses did

Stephanie [00:26:56]:

you get that flavor without the bird?

Nava Atlas [00:27:00]:

Well, I used vegetable or vegan chicken style bouillon cubes. Mhmm. And then the chicken chicken product also, they usually have their own flavor. And it's really, you know, it's really not that difficult. I feel like this is proof positive that pretty much anything can be veganized. And I'm going back to the beginning of the program saying that I really didn't like my mom's cooking very much, but yet I loved my mom. So this super reminds me not so much of my mom's cooking that I didn't particularly like, but of my mom. Yeah.

Nava Atlas [00:27:35]:

So even looking at it and the way it looks is just just brings me back to my childhood. And I think that's so much of what eating is about. And so much of what comfort food is about is that nostalgia and that comfort of, you know, our parents or our family and the safety. And I feel like that is just such a universal human need. I always think that we're not necessarily alike as humans, but I think that we all want the same things. We want love, security, our family, and food is just such a way to bring people together.

Stephanie [00:28:14]:

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And boy, that's a great way to end it. I love that you shared that, story. And I was just you know, that we're just coming off of the Republican National Convention, and I've been feeling a little bit like trying to be open minded, but also feeling a little tribal in my belief system. And I do think about getting back to what do what are people wanting? You when you really get down to it, we do want a lot of the same things. We come out of different points of view, but it helps me to have empathy and understanding when I'm having a hard time feeling like, who are these people?

Nava Atlas [00:28:57]:

I'm glad you said it. Not me, but I I get I get it.

Stephanie [00:29:02]:

And yeah. And on both sides, really. I mean, I'm from Minneapolis, and believe me, we have a lot of left, real left, left, left stuff happening right now. And on the one hand, some of it's really exciting. And on the other hand, I just feel like it's too much, and you feel like you're kinda pulled on all sides and not sure where the real understanding is. And I'm just trying to find my own personal empathetic path as we Absolutely. Get walking up to this election regardless of what So

Nava Atlas [00:29:30]:

Find a way to meet in the middle and things that we all have as commonalities.

Stephanie [00:29:34]:

And it is always food and soup, isn't it?

Nava Atlas [00:29:37]:

Absolutely. I think food really brings us together for sure.

Stephanie [00:29:41]:

This has been such a delight. Thank you so much for spending a little time with me today. I appreciate it. And we'll get the podcast edited and posted. It is Vegetariana. That is the original book, A Rich Harvest of Whitlore and Recipes. And the new book that's not new, but in its 5th edition, but new with pretty pictures, vegan soups and stews for all seasons, Nava Atlas. Thanks joining me.

Stephanie [00:30:03]:

I really appreciate it.

Nava Atlas [00:30:04]:

Oh, thank you. If I could just, one more thing is that people can visit me as at the vegan atlas dotcom.

Stephanie [00:30:11]:

Okay. I think I went to your website once, so I'll put that in the show notes.

Nava Atlas [00:30:15]:

Oh, thank you so much.

Stephanie [00:30:16]:

Okay. Great to meet you.

Nava Atlas [00:30:17]:

Bye bye. Alright.

Stephanie [00:30:18]:

Bye bye.

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Nicole Aufderfaur aka @TenThousandBakes
15 Nov· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Welcome to another episode of "Dishing with Stephanie's Dish," where we dive into the world of food with our guests from all corners of the culinary landscape. This time, we're delighted to have Nicole Aufderhar with us, known for her Instagram page @TenThousandBakes, where she showcases her incredible baking creations. Our conversation traces her baking journey from family traditions to competing on the Great American Baking Show, where she reached the final three and participated in the finale. Nicole shares her love for Minnesota State Fair Baking and her insights into balancing a creative passion with an artistic career. Join us as we explore her baking adventures, inspirations, and the sweet success she's found along the way.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Stephanie Hansen [00:00:16]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space. And today, my guest is Nicole Ofterhauer, and she is at 10000 Bakes on Instagram. And we became friends, kind of funny, through the Jason show's hottest day on record at the state fair.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:00:36]:
Yes. Where we were all dying and couldn't think straight.
Stephanie Hansen [00:00:40]:
Yeah. We were just, like, sweating ourselves off, and you had made these super beautiful blueberry macarons. And you were there to talk about your experience that you'd had as a state fair baker, but also on the Great American Baking Show, which if people don't know because I still think people don't know that that show exists.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:01:01]:
They don't know. Even, like, my friends and family sometimes don't know that it exists. It's yeah. Everyone knows the British version, but surprise, there's an American one.
Stephanie Hansen [00:01:10]:
Yes. So The Great British Bake Off, spun off a great American baking show, and Nicole was a guest on it and did very well. Weren't you, like, in the final 3?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:01:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. I made it all the way to the finals.
Stephanie Hansen [00:01:22]:
Okay. So that's exciting. And I just wanna point out, I don't know when people are gonna listen to this because I'm probably gonna release it maybe this Friday or the next Friday. I haven't decided yet. But
Nicole Aufderhar [00:01:34]:
Mhmm.
Stephanie Hansen [00:01:35]:
If you haven't gotten a chance, please go right now to Nicole's Instagram page and look at 10,000 Bakes. Because, honestly, she has some of the most amazing spooky treats on there. Girl, I mean, those the skull truffles with the raspberry filling, are you kidding me?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:01:51]:
Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I I've always been kind of a Halloween nut. Like, always been my thing. The spookier, the better. And so for me, Halloween baking is kinda all about embracing kind of the quirky and weird. So I just go all in with it.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:02:07]:
It's always fun every year.
Stephanie Hansen [00:02:09]:
I mean, your stuff is real cool looking. Very beautiful. There was also a black was it what kind of a, cake was it?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:02:18]:
Yeah. So I made it was a peri breast, actually. So, like, a patichou base pastry.
Stephanie Hansen [00:02:26]:
Yeah. It looked like chew pastries stuffed or filled with, like, a cream of some sort.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:02:31]:
Yep. Yeah. So I used, black cocoa creme pat, and then there was also you couldn't see the picture, but there was, like, a raspberry gel as well. So kind of that dark chocolate raspberry thing kinda fitting with Halloween.
Stephanie Hansen [00:02:44]:
I mean, it was unbelievably fantastic looking.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:02:47]:
Oh, thanks. Yeah. Like I said, it's I get to be my weird artistic self this time of year, so it's kind of fun.
Stephanie Hansen [00:02:53]:
I like your weird artistic self. Take that and the listener kind of on the journey of how this whole thing started for you.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:03:01]:
So I have kind of been baking my entire life. You know, like, most people grew up mom in the kitchen, Nestle Toll House, Christmas cutout. You know, nothing, like, crazy, but just, you know, family baking. And as I grew up, I just kinda started to dive more and more into it. I'm kind of a shy person. So when I would go to parties, like, talking to people is stressful, but if I bring a bank, that gives me something to talk about. Sure. So, you know, I kind of started doing that more.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:03:30]:
And in college, I actually studied photography with, like, emphasis on food photography. And because I don't wanna take pictures of babies. So I decided to do the food route, and then I kinda decided that, well, if I wanna take pictures of beautiful things, I might have to learn how to bake some of these things. And so it's just kind of continued to grow and grow, and it's always been kind of my creative endeavor that's just for me and just for fun and really lets me express myself without the pressure. You know, I'm an artist full time, so I have that pressure there. So this is just just for fun, just for me. And when I saw that there was a great American baking show, which I didn't even know. You know, I've watched the British version for years, and then I saw online that they were casting for the American version.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:04:19]:
I thought, oh, well, let's let's see. Why not? You know? And I put my hat in the ring, and I made it all the way to the final round of 1st year, which I wasn't expecting. It's a very long process, and I just what I thought would maybe just be something that I'd enter and never hear from again ended up being this multiyear journey of traveling with baked goods and auditions. And after a couple 2 years of auditioning, I was cast on the show.
Stephanie Hansen [00:04:51]:
So yeah. So exciting.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:04:53]:
Yeah.
Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Stephanie Hansen [00:04:54]:
So how long from the beginning of you arriving to start the taping to when you go home is that length of time?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:05:04]:
So you are there basically for an entire month. For us, it was the entire month of August. You do a lot of prep work stateside before you go, you know, coming up with your own recipes and stuff. But once you are there, you are there the whole time. Even if you're eliminated, then you just kinda get a London vacation, but you're there for the entire month.
Stephanie Hansen [00:05:24]:
So they do it in the Great British Bake Off same space?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:05:28]:
Yeah. So for the Great British Bake Off, there's 2 tents. There is a tent where they film the version everybody knows, and then there's a tent where they film, like, celebrity versions, and I believe it's coming from Janae Baycock is still there as well, but, yeah, there are 2 tents. We're in the the other tent, like so it's not the tent, but it's one of theirs.
Stephanie Hansen [00:05:51]:
Yeah. And Paul and Pru are still judges.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:05:55]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's the same judges. It's Paul and Pru. We have American hosts. You know, that's the difference. People always kind of, I don't wanna say, hate on the American version, but they always say, oh, we don't like it because they're hypercompetitive, and they don't have the accents and all this. And I'm like, well, yeah, we don't have the accents.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:06:12]:
Sure. And that's the baddest. Yeah. Yeah.
Stephanie Hansen [00:06:16]:
So there's that.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:06:18]:
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, if you wanna nitpick, but it's still, like, a heartwarming, friendly show. Like, once people sit down and watch it, they're like, oh, that's actually enjoyable. I'm like, yes. That's what I've been telling you.
Stephanie Hansen [00:06:32]:
It is funny that the perception of Bake Off and what people love and what attracted me to it too was just how kind and supportive everybody is. And we've gotten used to watching these, you know, chopped and these sort of aggressive male dominated, like, shows of competition. And it is funny because I do think America in general this is a very gross generalization, but I do think we're more competitive. We're very aggressively business focused, like, success focused. And I think what is nice about The Bake Off is there's a lot of people from all these different walks of life, and they just happen to make pastry too or they're bakers.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:07:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what it is. And that's when I auditioned because I talked a lot about my state fair, you know, competing background. And they purposely were, like, asking me, well, are you hypercompetitive? Are you how do you feel if you don't win? You know? And so I had to make sure that I expressed that I'm not competitive despite all that. Like, I love the community behind these competitions and the friends that I've made, and they are trying to seek out people for that show that are there to just be with other bakers and have fun and get this experience and aren't there because I wanna win. And, I mean, the prize is a cake plate. You know? Like, you're not getting $20,000 or a book deal.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:08:01]:
You know? You get a cake plate. So if you're not there to just have a good time, you know, they're not gonna put you in the tent.
Stephanie Hansen [00:08:09]:
You happen to mention the state fair. Can you talk a little bit about your state fair baking experience? Because you're pretty well known and traveled in the state fair scene too. Minnesota State Fair.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:08:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Especially the last year, people have kind of, I don't know, found my like, I've always shared about my journey with it. That's kinda why I started my Instagram page was because I wanted to share this community and show how accessible it is. Like, you don't have to be an incredible baker to enter. You just start. You just start entering stuff, and you get to meet people on entry day. And sometimes you get feedback from the judges.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:08:48]:
Sometimes you get head scratching feedback from the judges, but, like, it's just a super fun thing. And so I grew up with a step grandma who competed and kinda taught me the ropes from a young age and was kinda harsh about it, but it served me in the long run. And, so then about gosh. It's been 10 years now, I believe, I started. I did my first contest. I just entered three things, you know, just to kinda feel it out, and all 3 of them ribbon. I got 2 seconds and a 5th, and I was like, oh,
Stephanie Hansen [00:09:20]:
okay. You know? That's either this is
Nicole Aufderhar [00:09:24]:
you know, I wasn't sure what to think. I'm like, oh, this is easier than I thought, or I might actually be kinda good at baking because your friends and family are always like, oh, everything's fantastic, but is
Stephanie Hansen [00:09:33]:
it really? You know?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:09:35]:
So it's kinda given me this avenue to try new things and meet new people. And over the years, you know, I've I've done pretty well, and I've made some really amazing friends, and I just it's something I look forward to all year round.
Stephanie Hansen [00:09:48]:
What do you remember what the three things you were that you made in the first?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:09:53]:
Yeah. They weren't even I'd call them baking light. Honestly, it was like a granola bar and then some granola, and then they used to do this thing called the recipe challenge Yep. Where everyone would get the same recipe. You know? So it's kinda like the technical on the makeup, honestly, which is what appealed to me is you all get the same recipe. You kinda have to interpret it. And so I got a second place on that. I got a second place on the bars, and then I got a 5th place on the granola.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:10:23]:
And the the funny thing with the cookies was I was always under this belief that you had to enter things freshly baked that morning, you know. So I woke up early to do my final round, and they didn't they failed. The dough, I don't know what I did wrong or if it was the heat, it failed. And so I'm crying in the kitchen. I'm like, what do I do? Well, I had ones that I had stored in the freezer, like, 3 weeks ago. I mean Yeah. I was like, I wanna save them just in case, and I'm so glad I did because that's what I ended up entering were 3 week old transfer cookies, and they still placed.
Stephanie Hansen [00:10:55]:
Yeah. And a lot of people do that. Like, I know another woman, and she enters, like, 82 contests. And some of her stuff comes
Nicole Aufderhar [00:11:03]:
in
Stephanie Hansen [00:11:03]:
the freezer, and she pulls it out the night before, and that's what they enter.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:11:07]:
That's what I and that's what I've been telling people this year, especially, people are surprised to learn that I did that. And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, well, but don't they taste them? Like, yeah. You know, you can kinda tell freezer goods from the fresh, but that's what everybody else is doing. So if you're the best of the freezer bunch Yeah. You know, and it works.
Stephanie Hansen [00:11:25]:
How many categories did you enter this year?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:11:28]:
This year, I ended up doing 12, I believe it was, which I'm not I mean, there's people that show up with laundry baskets full of stuff, you know, and max out at 20. I doing 12 was a lot for me. I usually, like, keep them in the single digits. But, yeah, it went really well. Half of them ribboned. I got a smoked steaks for the first time, so it was a lot of fun this year.
Stephanie Hansen [00:11:52]:
Yeah. And what people maybe don't know I mean, you said mentioned that you're an artist. You make, leather bound journals and leather goods. And, what's your website for that? Because I wanna make sure we tell people because your work's really
Thanks for reading Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter! This post is public so feel free to share it.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:12:07]:
So my website is wayfaringgoods.com, and it's not wayfair like that big furniture supply place or whatever. It's spelled wayfaringgoods.com.
Stephanie Hansen [00:12:21]:
I love it. Yeah. Because you're not doing this in a professional scope.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:12:28]:
No. Baking is right now, you know, probably, you know, I don't know, forever. It's just for fun. I I love what I do with my leather business. That has been something I've been doing full time for 15 years. Like, that's really where my I don't know. I'm as passionate about baking as I am about leather, but I like keeping my leather as my business and my baking as my creative passion, which I think is important for professional creatives to have that thing without the pressure of selling.
Stephanie Hansen [00:13:03]:
And let's talk about that for a second because that's sort of uniquely American too. I think that this idea is like, oh, well, she's making all this stuff. She's in competitive realm. She's doing really well, so she must be planning a bakery because we, like, don't really just allow ourselves to have these creative outlets without making them into something. We feel the pressure from ourselves.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:13:28]:
Yeah. Oh, exactly. And I think I mean, it's so important to have that creative passion that you don't have that pressure behind. And I I think so I started my business right out of college. I could have either gone the professional photography router than what I did. And so I think because I started young, I learned how important it is to have that creative passion just for fun. I see a lot of my friends that have since pursued kinda similar art businesses, and I see them now struggling with this. Like, oh, well, I'm also good at this, so I should sell this and I should do that.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:14:05]:
And it's like, no. You don't have to sell everything you make. Like, if you're a creative person, you might be good at a lot of different creative things.
Stephanie Hansen [00:14:13]:
Yes.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:14:14]:
You know? And it stops being fun when you know, like, if I have a failure in the kitchen, I'm disappointed. You know? I get frustrated, but it's okay because it's not going anywhere. I don't have to worry about someone a customer coming. I don't have to, you know, it's a different kind of failure versus the feeling when you're struggling with the business. And so I I like having those two things very separate.
Stephanie Hansen [00:14:41]:
Yeah. I can see that too. And, also, like, this idea that because you're good at something or because you make something, then it's becomes less a hobby and then a job. And sometimes I struggle with that because I'm just cooking now between the cookbook and the show and the adjacent appearances and, my blog.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:15:02]:
I feel
Stephanie Hansen [00:15:02]:
like I'm just cooking all the time. And sometimes, like, I feel another like, I have to, like, videotape everything I'm doing. And, like, the other day, I was like, I'm not pulling out the video camera. I'm going to cook something that could I? Sure. But, I'm just going to make these apple muffins because I have apples and I feel like an apple muffin and I'm not going to videotape it and you know what? I'm not even going to write down the recipe. And I just was like I just sat in the moment. I enjoyed the bake. I loved the smell it made my house.
Stephanie Hansen [00:15:33]:
The muffins came out. I ate 1. I gave one to the dog and then I went and distributed them the neighborhood and got rid of them and came home and was like, oh, that was fun.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:15:43]:
Yeah. Isn't that's the best. That is those are that's the best feelings. And I know exactly even though, like, I don't do my baking on a professional level, just in the world of social media. Like you said, you have this pressure to film everything you do and turn everything that you do into some form of content. And that just sucks sucks the fun out of it. You know? Like, you know, sometimes it's fun, you know, but if you're not feeling it, like, don't do it. If Yeah.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:16:11]:
I don't know. You know, it's important to, like obviously, for you, it is part of your work.
Stephanie Hansen [00:16:17]:
But But is it I mean, also and I'm sort of like I don't know. I'm just sort of working through this too. Like, we give a lot away of ourselves as creators, as people in a social media space, and it's just demanding. And I don't wanna, like, sound not grateful because I am because you build a platform and people really dig your stuff and that's fun, but also, like, trying to recognize what's real and what's not real sometimes.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:16:50]:
Yes. Yep. Yeah. Because people see a version of you and and a version of what you do, and they expect that over and over and over again.
Stephanie Hansen [00:17:00]:
Yeah.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:17:00]:
And it can be exhausting. Yeah. And some days
Stephanie Hansen [00:17:04]:
you don't feel like delivering that.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:17:06]:
Yeah. I don't. You know? And and then sometimes I feel like, oh, I have to put it out there because I put everything out there, and then I do it and it doesn't do well or whatever. And then I stress out about that. It's like, why? Why?
Stephanie Hansen [00:17:17]:
Yeah.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:17:18]:
You know?
Stephanie Hansen [00:17:20]:
Well, you and I had coffee, and I think you well, we met at the hottest day of the year, and then you followed up. And you're like, would you ever wanna have coffee? I was like, yes. Of course. And I I also loved that you reached out to me because I do like bringing this creative online life sometimes into the real life of you and I just sitting and having a cup of coffee and talking about what we're into and what's fun. And I just I was I was appreciative that you reached out. And I I wish more people would do that kind of in a real space because I think that's how you grow and how you can help mentor others and help others find their path because so many people have helped me along the way. My goodness.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:18:04]:
Yeah. No. Yeah. And I I'm still so grateful you said yes because Sure. It is super important. And I think that people are kinda surprised when others are willing to do stuff in person and meet in person. And even for my tiny little thing that I do at the state fair, I met people online and they were worried about bugging me or asking me questions. And I'm like, why? Like, oh, I Yeah.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:18:27]:
I I and maybe not I love talking about that kind of stuff. If I can help somebody else, like, I go to competition. I'm like, so, like Yeah. Like, it's better for all of us in the long run, you know, if we're encouraging others to do it and get better and help the people where we can with stuff that we've learned along the way. And, like, I personally enjoy doing that. So that's why it was so exciting to Yeah. Get to sit and talk with you and, you know, meet someone else of the food, you know, yeah, and just learn from each other.
Stephanie Hansen [00:18:59]:
So what's next for you, Nicole? Have you thought about that?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:19:05]:
All the time. No. Again, after having done the show and now I've I've been very fortunate since the show came out with opportunities that have come my way. You know, you never know if anyone's gonna notice or pay attention or anything, and I've honestly been quite overwhelmed with the amount of stuff that I have done. And so people, you know, they expect the bakery. They expect us to expect that. That is not that's not on my realm. That's not what I'm thinking at all.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:19:36]:
I long term dream, short term dream. I don't know. I always tell people I would like to do a cookbook. That is something I thought of wanting to do years. I mean, that's kinda always been in the back of my head because Yeah. I enjoy the recipe development portion of baking. So that's kinda where my strong suit is. That's where I that's what I enjoy the most.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:19:59]:
So, you know, obviously, I'm gonna be continuing on with my leather business as always Yep. Gearing up for holiday season right now. So that's, you know, the main part of my life, but I'm just gonna continue to create recipes, share that, share the state fair knowledge, and just be willing to embrace and be open to whatever might come from it.
Stephanie Hansen [00:20:26]:
Alright. Let's do something fun. Are you ready for fun? Maybe. Always. I have, like, 5 to 10 questions. We'll see how it goes. Just random kinda rapid fire questions.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:20:40]:
Oh gosh.
Stephanie Hansen [00:20:42]:
They're not hard. They're they're all about you. They're not hard.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:20:46]:
Okay.
Stephanie Hansen [00:20:46]:
Oh, okay. Here's number 1. What is the first bake you remember making yourself?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:20:54]:
Cupcakes. Cute. Yeah. Like, as a kid? It's so basic, but that's yeah. Strawberry cupcakes with Swiss meringue buttercream. Yum. That was my first, quote, unquote, real bake that I did.
Stephanie Hansen [00:21:08]:
I love it. Okay. When you go to a potluck, what do you typically bring?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:21:16]:
Macarons.
Stephanie Hansen [00:21:18]:
Oh, fancy. Yes.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:21:20]:
They're easy to share. They look impressive, but they're pretty easy to whip up.
Stephanie Hansen [00:21:25]:
Okay. What is the first thing you eat from a Halloween candy bucket?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:21:32]:
That's funny. Snickers popped into my head first, but Reese's are my favorite, but I guess Snickers would be my first.
Stephanie Hansen [00:21:37]:
Okay. I love that. Reese's is the number one popular candy. You probably know that.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:21:41]:
Yeah.
Stephanie Hansen [00:21:41]:
Yeah. What, is the restaurant that you've been to more than any other?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:21:51]:
Well, green scene since moving up to Walker. That would be yeah. Okay. I love the green scene here in town.
Stephanie Hansen [00:21:57]:
And you live in Walker. I should mention that. Yes. What's your most used pan?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:22:05]:
I my little I have a little saucepan, and I will shove anything I can into it even if it's not supposed to fit. I love it.
Stephanie Hansen [00:22:12]:
I have one of those too, and it's funny. Yeah.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:22:15]:
Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't fit. Okay. I just did that last meal with some jam. It was poor decision but I think it worked.
Stephanie Hansen [00:22:21]:
But you still loved your pan. Okay. This is your last question in the in the final round of the rapid fire questioning. What's an existing cookbook you wish you had written?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:22:36]:
Oh. Oh. I'm looking at all my cookbooks. I know. It's a
Stephanie Hansen [00:22:41]:
hard one.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:22:42]:
That is a hard one. I can't I well, it's funny because I feel like picking any of them. I'm not worthy of any of them, but I have they're all old vintage ones. Like, I have this rose what's her last name?
Stephanie Hansen [00:23:03]:
Birnbaum Levy Birnbaum.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:23:05]:
I use a lot of her books. I wish I had the skill and the abilities to write something like that.
Stephanie Hansen [00:23:11]:
Do you know that that cake bible book that she wrote is having its 35th anniversary this year?
Nicole Aufderhar [00:23:17]:
I don't see that. I know. I can't believe it because except I have all, like, the real old vintage ones of it, and it's it's so cool that it still has stood the test of time.
Stephanie Hansen [00:23:27]:
Yeah. No. I love that you have those. That's amazing. Well, Nicole, I hope people will follow you on Instagram at 10000 Bakes. We're gonna for sure have you on, Jason's show next summer so we get a chance to connect with her there again. Wonderful. Also been doing reviews of Great British Bake Off with Bradley and Dawn on my talk 107.1.
Stephanie Hansen [00:23:50]:
Yeah. Yep. People should follow you, and you're making really cool Halloween stuff right now.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:23:56]:
Yeah. Thanks. Yes. We're having fun over here.
Stephanie Hansen [00:23:59]:
Yeah. It's amazing. Alright. Well, when you're gonna be coming down to town next or not downtown, down to town, next, give me a shout, and we'll have coffee again. It was fun.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:24:09]:
Oh, definitely. Totally.
Stephanie Hansen [00:24:10]:
Alright. Thanks, Nicole. I appreciate you spending time with us today. Yeah.
Nicole Aufderhar [00:24:14]:
Thank you.
Stephanie Hansen [00:24:14]:
We'll talk soon. Bye bye. Bye.
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Stephanie O'Dea on Slow Living
1 Nov· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
This week, we're excited to bring you a thought-provoking conversation with the wonderful Stephanie O'Dea, bestselling author and advocate for slow living.
In this episode, Stephanie O'Dea dives deep into her journey from being known as the "crock pot queen," where I first connected with her (see her Slow cooker Brussels sprouts and Apricot Brie recipes below) , to embracing a more deliberate and slow-paced lifestyle. While we are in the month of Crocktober and Stephanie’s book, “Make It Fast, Cook It Slow,” is never leaving my shelf, I also was really interested in her new “Slow Living: Cultivating a Life of Purpose in a Hustle-Driven World” pivot.
Here's a quick look at what we talked about and… a recipe!
🌅 Morning Rituals & Solitude: Stephanie shares her love for early mornings, awakening as early as 4 AM to have personal time for journaling, yoga, and creativity. Her dedication to solitude helps her find mental space and clarity.
📚 Lifelong Learning: For Stephanie, being a lifelong learner is key to avoiding burnout. She emphasizes the importance of evolving and staying curious, contrasting repetitive tasks with the joy of discovery.
🌿 Redefining FOMO: Stephanie offers a new take on FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) by instead focusing on "Figure Only Myself Out." This mantra encourages self-awareness and individual happiness, away from societal pressures.
✨ Shift from Hustle Culture: In this hustle-driven world, Stephanie advocates for slowing down, unplugging from technology, and embracing authenticity in a world that often overvalues constant productivity.
📖 Slow Living: Now with her own podcast and new book "Slow Living: Cultivating a Life of Purpose in a Hustle Driven World," Stephanie inspires others to live intentionally and with purpose, championing quality over quantity.
We also touch upon the benefits of using a crockpot, societal expectations, and the importance of setting boundaries in both personal and professional lives.
If you're looking to slow down and cultivate a life filled with purpose and joy, this episode is just what you need. Make sure to tune in!.
Tune in to "Dishing with Stephanie's Dish" for more insights, and visit our website for past episodes. Whether you're sipping morning coffee or winding down for the day, we hope our conversations bring you inspiration and a fresh perspective.
P.S. We'd love to hear your thoughts on embracing a slower lifestyle. Reply to this email with your ideas or stories or favorite cookbook authors you would like us to connect with
Slow Cooker Very Best Brussels Sprouts
Ingredients
1 pound brussels sprouts
3 tablespoons butter
1 tablespoon Dijon mustard (ooh la la, fancy)
1/4 teaspoon kosher salt
1/4 teaspoon black pepper
1/4 cup water
Instructions
Use a 2-quart slow cooker.
Wash and trim the ends off of each Brussels sprout, and cut in half.
Toss into the cooker. Add butter, mustard, salt, pepper, and water.
Cover and cook on low for 4 to 5 hours, or on high for 2 to 3.
Stir well to distribute the sauce before serving.
Slow Cooker Brie with Apricot Topping
Ingredients
1 large round or wedge of brie (the round I used was 13.2 oz)1/2 cup chopped dried apricots2 tablespoons brown sugar2 tablespoons water-1 teaspoon balsamic vinegar1/4 teaspoon dried rosemary1/2 cup chopped walnuts (if you don't eat nuts, simply omit)
Instructions
You have two choices here: you can use a 2-quart slow cooker or you can use a 6-quart slow cooker with an inserted oven-safe dish.If your brie has a really hard rind, cut the top part off. Put the brie into the crockpot (or the oven safe dish).In a bowl, mix the chopped apricots, balsamic vinegar, brown sugar, water and rosemary together.Spoon on top of the brie.Sprinkle on the chopped walnuts.If you are using an inserted dish with the brie in a large crockpot, you do not need to add water around the base of the dish.Cover and cook on high for 1-2 hours, or on low for about 3. Check after an hour just in case.When the brie is warm and as melty as you'd like, take it out. You aren't really cooking anything here, just melting it nicely.Serve with your favorite crackers or apple slices.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Stephanie Hansen [00:00:11]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to people that are cookbook writers, people that love food. And today, we have kind of a special podcast. It is, my pleasure to talk with Stephanie O'Day. And Stephanie and I first crossed paths, boy, probably maybe 12 years ago when I ran across your book. You were the crock pot queen at that time. You had 365 days of slow cooking, and you had a crock pot book that is still in my kitchen. And I've recycled a lot of cookbooks, but not yours. Make it slow, cook it fast.
Stephanie Hansen [00:00:49]:
And you became sort of this crock pot personality. And I'm was checking in with you on a couple of crockpot things for Croctober, which is my favorite month of the year. And you were like, yeah. I can do crockpot things, but really, I've evolved into this other whole being of slow living. And welcome to the program. I'm so excited to talk to you.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:01:12]:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me. The the crock pot lady was super fun. I I liked being the crock pot lady, and it worked really, really well until all of a sudden, it just didn't. And I started to feel a little fake and phony in my brain and my body. Because as you know, in order to write for the Internet, you have to consistently, like, pump out content.
Stephanie Hansen [00:01:40]:
Yeah.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:01:40]:
And and after a while, I kinda thought, well, gosh, Steph, how how, how many pot roast recipes does the world really need? And, and it was tricky because it because that first cookbook, the Make It Fast, Cook It Slow cookbook, it spent 6 weeks on the New York Times bestsellers list and did really, really well. So my literary agent, my book publishers, they wanted me to consistently create recipes and and tweak them. And as you know, in order to write a quote, unquote, new recipe for the Internet or for a cookbook, you really just have to change the name and change an ingredient or 2 and and write, like, some some beginning and head notes and end notes and and call it a day. But it it really started to to not kind of align with my ethics and morals, and I felt really uncomfortable. And then it legit came to a head in 2016 with the the invention of the Instant Pot. Yep. And and all of a sudden, everyone's like, you've gotta translate your recipes from the crock pot to the Instant Pot to the pressure cooker. And so I bought 1, and I goofed around with it, and I get it.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:02:51]:
The the tech part is fun. It's it's really exciting for some people to cook a frozen chicken in 45 minutes at 5 o'clock at night. For me, it it it I didn't like it. Yeah. I I just my brain, my body wants to put the food on in the morning, 6 AM, 7 AM. I'm fully awake. I'm highly caffeinated. I can push a button and walk away.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:03:15]:
The idea of having to cook at 5 o'clock when I'm already hungry, the kids are already, like, hangry and frustrated, just it didn't work for me. So, so I got fired.
Stephanie Hansen [00:03:28]:
You fired yourself, though, in effect.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:03:31]:
Well, sort of. It's so sort of, except for the publishers legit did fire me.
Stephanie Hansen [00:03:35]:
Yeah. Well, you know, publishers fire people all the time. That's not a big deal. Yeah. So you're not feeling consistent with your brand, this thing you've built, this thing you've created and put all this energy into. And how did you know that what you liked was the slow living aspects of it and make that transition because I imagine that was pretty hard.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:04:03]:
Yeah. So I I took some time off from the Internet, and and I actually got a real job, which is great. Because once you're not worried about making money, you can be creative again. And and that's what ended up happening. And I sort of had this, like, voice of God say, hey, just because you can do something fast, it doesn't mean you should. And I live in Silicon Valley and so everything is fast. Yeah. The the people drive too fast.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:04:29]:
I joke with friends that, like, Tesla's are pigeons here. They're they're everywhere, and they do not stop. And I don't think it's good for humans. And I certainly can see it firsthand with children that doing things in a rushed way or feeling like you're behind or you have to catch up. And it feeds this feeling of inadequacy and franticness in your body that's not healthy. And so I started to to really think about it. And, I did a lot of research, took up yoga, took up meditation, did a lot of research on, therapy practices, trauma informed practices, and and started the Slow Living podcast in 2021. And, and from there, my new book is Slow Living Cultivating a Life of Purpose in a Huzzle Driven World.
Stephanie Hansen [00:05:25]:
When you so you've got this whole brand now and all of these things. I imagine you had to, like, essentially start over and rebrand and become this new person that you always were this person, but leaning into that. And I'm it's funny that I'm talking to you today because I literally just had a con or a meeting this week about, like, oh, for SEO, you need to do this and you need to do that. And maybe we don't make so many recipes. Maybe we just do this. Maybe we like, exactly where the joy of what I do started, it has become a business. And I'm feeling that for you and myself. Like, this thing you love, this thing you start, this thing that feels so fun, and then you're just like, is this, like, am I just a bot here to just create all this stuff and have it literally just be like, okay.
Stephanie Hansen [00:06:23]:
I'm just a robot?
Stephanie O'Dea [00:06:25]:
Yeah. It's it's really something else, and and the Internet is not normal. And when you live and work on the Internet, you start to think that's real. And, and it it takes maybe some unplugging and some stepping aside. I really like nature. We're lucky in that our family has a cabin. And so just sitting on the porch and listening to the birds and watching the squirrels, I'm like, so that's actual real life. Yeah.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:06:53]:
This fake stuff is phony. And and so leaning into that, and then I have 3 children, and then I I'm just watching them and watching their wonderment, and and I want them to have hope and optimism for the future. And and sometimes, if you get sucked up in this kind of fast paced hustle culture, people think, oh, your kids will never be able to afford this or, oh, it like like, the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Like, I don't wanna raise my children with that thought process. So so deciding on purpose what it is you really want out of life, not the things you need to do, not feeding the Internet beast, but what is it you really want? What lights you up? Well, for me, it's, juicy afternoons where I can take a nap, plenty of time to garden, do yoga, being present when my children are talking to me and not feeling like, oh, I better answer this Instagram message. No. Probably the Instagram message is what you can put on pause and then paying attention to the babies in the room is what's important.
Stephanie Hansen [00:08:03]:
So let's talk specifically, about a couple of, I guess, we'll call them tips. I don't mean to simplify it to that level, but of how someone who wants to be more present can start moving into a slower living lifestyle. And then I wanna ask you because what's striking to me is we're talking about this slow living in a purpose driven life as it were, and yet you are recreating, like, this content again around this slow living practice with a podcast, with a number of books, with decluttering ideas, and ways to simplify your life. So it's sort of like this oxymoron too.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:08:46]:
Yeah. It's interesting. So I, the the the first tip and and my first suggestion would be to allow yourself to daydream and and to be to wander. Let your brain wander. Many people say
Stephanie Hansen [00:09:01]:
like, a deep breath when you said that because Yeah. It drives me crazy when, like, my husband does that because I'm like, we need to know where we're going. Like, what are you doing? What are you thinking? But for him, and he's a creative person. He's a writer. That's how he gets his energy.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:09:19]:
Yeah. Definitely for me too. Definitely. So so I am an introvert. And so I I love being alone in my brain. It's super fun in there. When I was little, I used to get in trouble for daydreaming, especially in class, and and doodling and all of that kind of stuff. But in order for me to have that brain space, I get up really early, and that's me time.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:09:44]:
So we're recording this 6:6 AM California time. I've been up since 4. And to many people, that sounds horrible, like like the definition of hustle culture, and and I get that. So how I marry the 2 is nobody wants anything from me at this time. It's me alone with my brain, my journal, my pot of coffee. I lay out my yoga mat. I stretch when I wanna stretch. I listen to my body.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:10:14]:
I write down ideas. Coming up with content for the podcast is a joy. There's so much I want to talk about and and and do it in in 20 to 30 minute segments that I don't see how that could get turned off, or I would feel burnt out because I'm a lifelong learner. I enjoy researching. I enjoy learning. I enjoy talking to you. Like, this is fun for me. This does not feel like work
Stephanie Hansen [00:10:44]:
Right.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:10:45]:
In in any way. Coming up with another way to make a a smoked jalapeno pot roast to does start to feel like work because I've already done that. Yeah. And and and I do believe in for lucky life is long, and and we continue to evolve and grow and change. My oldest is 23 today. And so this morning when I was journaling, I'm like, okay, well, where was I 23 years ago? What was I doing? What did I look like? What were my thoughts? What were my fears? And I'm so thrilled that I'm better, stronger, more confident than I was then. And that's what I would want for you and for your listeners is the idea that you have to cram it all in now. That's hustle culture.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:11:37]:
That's feeling as if you're behind or if what you're doing isn't good enough. If we're lucky, life is long. So where I am in 23 more years, I'll be in my seventies. Okay. Well, what does that look like? Well, I wanna continue to do yoga. I wanna garden. I wanna crawl around on the floor with my grandchildren. Well, in order to get there, probably, I don't need to work more.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:12:02]:
Probably, what I need to do is relax and make sure that I'm taking my supplements, and I'm drinking enough water, and I'm paying attention to my joint health and all of that kind of thing.
Stephanie Hansen [00:12:14]:
It is, it is a shift because I think, like, people unwind in different ways, but we're in this space where we don't really prioritize relaxation. You know? Like, there's always, like, places to go, things to do, closets to organize, meals to cook. Even, like, exercise has become, like, a hustle. Right? You know? Like, eve everything we do is framed in that I'll I'll call it the hustle culture like you did because I think people can really resonate with that. And it is hard to get off of that. And I find that the more I'm in it and the more I'm doing it, the less I even can observe what that would feel like. Like, I don't know how to relax. I used to.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:13:06]:
Yeah. And and it's tricky because not knowing how to relax first off, know what is it? Knowing is the first step. So good for you. Pay attention to that. Yeah. Because now you know what to work on. Unfortunately, what people do to turn off their brain is they turn to numbing techniques such as alcohol, drugs, endless mindless scrolling, and overconsumption. That isn't going to help your long term trajectory of a life well lived, of of life filled with kind of tranquility and peace, which in general, most people are actually chasing.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:13:47]:
They think they have to delay their happiness, their feeling of contentment because there's too much to do. So, so FOMO, fear of missing out, is what drives lots and lots of that. So this new book, is filled with acronyms, and that's because that's how my brain works.
Stephanie Hansen [00:14:05]:
Sure.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:14:06]:
And and my brain is super into acronyms because when I was about 7 or 8, my grandpa, who was in the military, told me that the word snafu had a bad word in it. So it's situation normal all effed up, but he actually said the word. So for me, like, my mind was blown that grown ups were hiding a bad word in another word. So, like, I've always rewritten acronyms. So FOMO for me and and for my readers is figure only myself out. Because when you know deep down inside who you are, what you stand for, what is important to you, and what makes you different is completely different than anyone else. So I'm glad that you brought up, like, exercise hustle. There are people at the gym hurting themselves because the the plan they're on says they have to do 25 reps, but their body needs to stop at 12.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:15:05]:
But they're they're pushing themselves, and they're actually creating damage in their joints because they're not listening to their own body. And and that's that's a problem that that you you have to decide what works for you when you're in a good mood and then consistently do that thing.
Stephanie Hansen [00:15:25]:
Yeah. It it's it's just interesting. You know, I think about this a lot that we've had the phone. I think we've had the phone for, what, like, I wanna say 15 years now, maybe 16. And it has changed so much in life, and I think about Steve Jobs sometimes. And just like, he put this amazing technology in our hands and in our pockets, And I wonder if he was still alive today, in some respects, how he would be ruing that day or how maybe he would be living intentionally differently. Because the phone is such a gift and the computer is such a gift. But at the same time, it can also be kind of a curse.
Stephanie Hansen [00:16:08]:
Are you good about, like there's different strategies for, like, time blocks. And, you know, like, you're gonna do this to this time and that to that time, and then you're gonna turn off your phone for this time. Like, in practice, do you do some of that to just give yourself space other than the early morning time?
Stephanie O'Dea [00:16:25]:
Yes. I so I do. I teach time blocking, and and I sort of liken it to a, like, a a classroom. Whereas this is circle time. This is recess time. This is that time. So, yes, I I can pay attention to that. And then I also wanna point out that, you're right.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:16:46]:
I don't think Steve Jobs would like this because he is a creative guy, and he would put on his calendar lots of brain breaks for himself to unplug and be alone with his thoughts, and he would go on long meandering walks. Again, I live in Silicon Valley, so I see this firsthand. And because of this, I am not an early adopter to any sort of technology.
Stephanie Hansen [00:17:13]:
Mhmm.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:17:13]:
I am hesitant and I am skeptical, and I wanna see how it works for other people and whether or not it's actually helping them or hindering them before I decide to go in. A great book that you might really like is, Harris Swisher's burn book, where it talks about the the early days of Silicon Valley and all of those kind of things. The the apps and the different sites are designed to addict you. And, you know this because I'm certain you have gone to to food blogging and and different conferences where they teach you how to keep the people on your site and and trick them into clicking this and doing this and and and wait. There's just wait. There's more. Yeah. And and that is is neat maybe, for the first little bit when you're learning how the tech works, but then later, it can really make you feel, uncomfortable.
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Stephanie O'Dea [00:18:18]:
And and I want people to gravitate towards me, not feel like they were duped into something.
Stephanie Hansen [00:18:25]:
Yeah. It's so funny to hear you talk about what we're all chasing in a way that is almost harmful and damaging, really. And, yeah, I just I was on a trip recently, for 2 weeks on a boat and going to Croatia and seeing all these beautiful things. And I still had to work a little bit. And every morning, you know, I would sit and I would do a couple hours worth of work. And my husband looked at me one day, and he's like, well, you know you're a workaholic. Right? And I was like, really? He's like and he was like, oh, yeah. Totally.
Stephanie Hansen [00:19:01]:
Like, you get all of your value as a human from your work. And you're framing your whole life in this context of the workout put you've and he was like, at this point in your life, Stephanie, you've worked more than most people. So, like, your quality and quantity of work, you've already reached it. What's next? It was so surprising and shocking to me, and he was just laughing. He was like, wait. Am I the first person that's ever put this into your brain? And and we work from home, and we have creative lives. He's an like I said, an author, and I'm doing this food thing. I'm a broadcaster.
Stephanie Hansen [00:19:39]:
You just it catches up where all of a sudden, like, everything is just this one big ball of thing.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:19:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. And and especially if you are an entrepreneur and you have no choice, because you have that that sort of intrinsic belief system of the harder I work, the luckier I'll get, which is, I guess, contributed back to Eleanor Roosevelt, who's a lovely lady, and she's great. But I want you and I would want your readers and listeners to know that you're worthy no matter what. And I think, I think what happens and and sometimes it happens in school and sometimes it happens with our parents is we believe not doing anything means that you're lazy.
Stephanie Hansen [00:20:29]:
Yeah.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:20:30]:
And you can be a lump on a log, especially if you work on the Internet. You can be a lump on a log and still get paid, because you don't actually really know where the people are coming from, how they found you. So so I like to, to kind of, if I'm coaching someone, I give them a a triangle or I have them draw a triangle on a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle. And on the left, you're listing all of the things that you're doing. So you're sending out your newsletter. You're you're updating some images. You're doing this. You're doing that.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:21:06]:
And then when your day is done, your day is done. And then the other side is the is the belief system that that God or the universe or whatever you feels good in your brain and your body will meet you halfway. You've done your part, but you can't be a control freak about the other part because because it's legit out of your hands. Yeah. And and maybe maybe for you, that would be helpful or uncomfortable. Probably putting some parameters on yourself that my day is done no matter what at insert time here, whatever feels good. Be because there's always something more to do. There's always more tweaking.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:21:52]:
You can always find a dead link. God almighty, there are so many dead links.
Stephanie Hansen [00:21:56]:
I do think too, like, some of this is changing because of society. You know? When we left work at, you know, 5:30 or 5 or whatever it was and you drove home, you know, for people that was I think an average commute was 22 minutes, which is why podcasts are 22 to 30 minutes. You you would have that time to unwind, and then you enter into your family life. With all of us, you know, many of us, creative people for sure, working from home and this culture shifting of working at home, and also that you should be available 247 to your employer, to your listeners, to your readers, whatever your situation is. There's been so much scope creep into our personal lives.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:22:42]:
Yeah. So if someone writes to you if you send an email and you don't get a response or a day and someone says, I was out of town just seeing this now. Are you mad at that person, or is your thought, good for you?
Stephanie Hansen [00:23:04]:
Good for them.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:23:05]:
Yeah. So what if you shifted that and decided to be proud of yourself for taking time off?
Stephanie Hansen [00:23:12]:
Yeah. And, also, like, why do we have to preface it with an excuse? 24 hours is an incredibly normal time to be responding to someone. We don't I do think about people's lives. You know? Like, what is happening in your life, in your real life? You just don't know what people are going through. You don't know what people's challenges are. You don't know what's happening with their kids. You don't know where their mental health is at. There's just so much that's unknowable.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:23:39]:
Yeah. No. It's absolutely true. So when you get to know yourself and you feel confident that you're doing the right thing, then it it however someone else wants to perceive you is on them. So, so with this new book, the the acronym for slow, because, again, super huge acronym junkie, is to simply look only within. And so if you know you're making the right choice for you, who cares what other people think? That that that's a them thing.
Stephanie Hansen [00:24:13]:
I am so glad that I talked to you today. And I know you've been super generous about allowing me to share a couple of crock pot recipes, and I'll do that because people come to me for recipes probably first and foremost. But along the way, we get to discover cool things about ourselves, about others, about the group of society that we live in. Right? And food is just a way of nourishing and creating community anyway. So I feel like, you know, this is an extension of that. When you, when you're a mom, I think time becomes so fraught with challenges too because you're supposed to give all to your kids, and you maybe even want to give all to your kids. Like, I feel like that's pretty natural. Do you feel like moms have a harder time slowing down?
Stephanie O'Dea [00:25:03]:
Yes and no. It's interesting. It it it depends on probably how they frame their mind. So for me, I am a okay to sit on the floor and play Candy Land and read a story and do a puzzle. I have a background in early childhood education and development. I I used to run preschool centers for homeless children, so I actually know how helpful that slowing down and 1 on 1 attention is for children. So I know that it's actually helping them in the long run. And so me putting my, like, desire to check email or something on pause in order to give that to them feels completely natural.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:25:49]:
So it doesn't bother me at all. I can see for some people might think that it's a quote, unquote waste of time and sort of an iPad. Give me 5 more minutes. Give me 5 more minutes. Shoving your child off consistently, has detrimental effects. It makes them feel as if their wants and needs aren't important. They start to mask and start to think that the grown up in the room, their parent or something, is more important. And that creates long term feelings of inadequacy, feelings of unworthiness, and feeling less than, which in a sense is why then people turn to the Internet, turn to Internet strangers, look for validation outside of them because they don't feel strong and stable within.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:26:38]:
So pay attention to that. As far as too much to do and not enough time to do it, I I do think when you're taking care of other humans, that's tricky. And so, again, that's why I personally like to set myself up for success in the day. I fill my own cup first. Even when I had babies in the bed and and nursing around the clock, I would try and roll away very carefully to then go spend some time, usually in the bathroom all by myself.
Stephanie Hansen [00:27:09]:
Your 5 minutes.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:27:11]:
My 5 minutes. Yeah. And I think that's really why I was so into the Crock Pot is, I could front load my day because I never knew who I was gonna pick up from school. Are they in a good mood? Are they in a bad mood? Is soccer practice gonna run late? Did someone twist their ankle and now all of a sudden we're going to the emergency room? Knowing that dinner was hot and ready and waiting was such a stress reliever. It also helped us stick to our budget, and and and kept us out of the drive through
Stephanie Hansen [00:27:45]:
Yeah.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:27:45]:
Lane and and ordering out and all of that kind of stuff. So it was very, very helpful and useful practical tool at the time when I had little babies in the house.
Stephanie Hansen [00:27:57]:
It's really you know, we start out thinking about you as the crock pot lady, but where we are with you today is really satisfying and and not unrelated. Right? Because you have different moons and phases of your life that all of the things you did before kinda prepare you and lead you to that road. It this has really been super fun to talk to you. I'm gonna get your book, Slow Living.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:28:22]:
Okay.
Stephanie Hansen [00:28:24]:
You have your podcast. And where do you want people to find you? Do you want them to follow you? Do you want them to not follow you?
Stephanie O'Dea [00:28:33]:
So yeah. So I I have really good boundaries for myself. So anyone can email me at any time. I am a real person. The website is stephanieoday.com, and the book is Slow Living Cultivating a Life of Purpose in a hustle driven world. Thank you for having me.
Stephanie Hansen [00:28:50]:
Oh, for sure. And do you ever get to Minneapolis?
Stephanie O'Dea [00:28:54]:
Oh, so I am really trying to create a book tour. So I would like to go to all of the places. That's one nice thing about my children getting older is is it opens up a lot more room to travel and not feeling guilty.
Stephanie Hansen [00:29:11]:
Yeah. Well, if you get to Minneapolis, let me know. I'd be happy to help, promote the word that you're here. And if you need anybody to spend time with or interview you, there's a lot of good purpose driven folks in the Twin Cities that are thinking about some of the same ideas that you're thinking about. So
Stephanie O'Dea [00:29:27]:
That sounds great. And then I can hug you in real life.
Stephanie Hansen [00:29:30]:
Yes. And it's always just good. You know, I feel like I have been following you for a long time, so it's really fun to catch up and see this transition for you. I'm excited about it, and I'm excited to help share the story. Just simply only look within. Slow down. I feel like you were divinely in my day specifically right on time. So thank you for being here, Stephanie.
Stephanie O'Dea [00:29:54]:
Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Stephanie Hansen [00:29:55]:
Alright. We'll talk soon. Bye bye.
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Erin Clarke Cookbook Author @wellplated
18 Okt· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
We had a lovely chat with Erin Clarke, from @Wellplated on Instagram and author of “Well Plated” and her new book, “Well Plated Every Day.” Scroll down for Erin’s pumpkin gingerbread squares with spiced cream cheese frosting recipe.
Cookbook Signing Event Details
Join Erin at ModernWell in Minneapolis on 10/30, 7:00pm-8:30pm, for her book signing event! The Well Plated Cookbook, Erin Clarke, and Lee Funke of Fit Foodie Finds!
Erin discusses her journey, from the influential blog Well Plated by Erin, to the creation of her popular cookbooks. You will sample one of Erin’s delicious recipes – and leave with a signed copy of Well Plated Everyday (Books provided by Valley Bookseller)
Thanks for reading Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter! This post is public so feel free to share it
Erin shared her Pumpkin gingerbread squares recipe from her new book, “Well Plated Everyday,” to give you a taste of the deliciousness in its pages.
Pumpkin gingerbread squares with spiced cream cheese frosting
Ingredients for the Cake
1/2 cup packed dark brown sugar
2 large eggs, at room temperature
3/4 cup pure pumpkin puree (not pumpkin pie filling)
1/2 cup canola oil, or melted and cooled coconut oil
1/4 cup unsulfured molasses (not blackstrap)
2 teaspoons ground cinnamon
11/4 teaspoons ground ginger
1/2 teaspoon unsweetened cocoa powder
1/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg
1/4 teaspoon ground cloves
1/2 teaspoon kosher salt 1 small orange
1 cup all-purpose flour
1/2 cup white whole wheat flour or regular whole wheat flour
1 teaspoon baking powder
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
Instructions For the Cake
Place a rack in the center of your oven and preheat to 350°F. Coat an 8 by 8-inch baking pan with nonstick spray. Line the pan with parchment paper so that two strips overhang opposite sides like handles.
In a large bowl, whisk together the brown sugar and eggs until pale and foamy, about 1 minute. Add the pumpkin puree, oil, molasses, cinnamon, ginger, cocoa powder, nutmeg, cloves, and salt. Zest half of the orange directly into the bowl (about 1 teaspoon). Reserve the remaining orange to zest for the frosting. Whisk until smoothly combined.
Sprinkle the all-purpose flour, white whole wheat flour, baking powder, and baking soda over the top. Whisk until combined and smooth, stirring only as long as needed to incorporate all the ingredients.
Scrape the batter into the prepared pan and smooth the top. Gently tap the pan on the counter to remove any air bubbles. Bake the cake for 20 to 24 minutes, until it is puffed, the edges are starting to pull away from the pan, and a tester inserted into the center of the cake comes out clean. Use the parchment overhang to lift the cake onto a wire rack and let it cool completely.
While the cake cools, make the frosting: In the bowl of a stand mixer fitted recipe and ingredients continue
Ingredients For the Spiced Cream Cheese Frosting
6 ounces reduced-fat cream cheese, or Neufchâtel cheese, at room temperature
2 tablespoons unsalted butter, at room temperature
1 1/2 cups powdered sugar plus a few additional tablespoons as needed
1/2 teaspoon orange zest (use the same orange from the cake)
1/2 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
1/8 teaspoon ground cinnamon or pumpkin pie
Instructions for the frosting
With the paddle attachment or in a large mixing bowl with a hand mixer, beat together the cream cheese and butter at medium speed for 2 minutes or until very smooth and well combined. Add the powdered sugar, orange zest (zest from the reserved orange directly into the bowl), vanilla, cinnamon, and salt. Beat on low speed for 30 seconds, until the powdered sugar is pretty incorporated. Increase the speed to high and pro tips beat until smooth, creamy, and fluffy, 1 to 2 minutes more. If you’d like a stiffer, sweeter frosting, add two tablespoons of powdered sugar until your desired consistency is reached. Spread the frosting on the cooled cake. For easier cutting, transfer to the refrigerator for 20 minutes to allow the frosting to set up (or go for it). Slice into squares of desired size and enjoy.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Stephanie [00:00:16]:
Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to cookbook authors and people obsessed with food generally. I am here today with Erin Clark. Erin is well plated on Instagram. She's also a best selling author of the well plated cookbook and the soon to be well plated everyday cookbook. You are gonna be having an event in the Twin Cities in Stillwater. I'm so excited for you.
Erin Clarke [00:00:42]:
I am thrilled as well. Can't wait. I worked to live, Yeah. Yes. So I lived in the Twin Cities at the very beginning of my career. I worked for Target, their corporate headquarters, so I just have a really big soft spot for the area, and I'm really looking forward to being back there again.
Stephanie [00:01:00]:
And do you live in Milwaukee now?
Erin Clarke [00:01:02]:
I live in Milwaukee now. Yes.
Stephanie [00:01:04]:
Okay. Because my family is all from Milwaukee, and I was looking on your Instagram. You make Milwaukee look more fun than I recall because we've been all over, like, the third ward, and you found some hidden gems that I was like, oh, she knows her way around here.
Erin Clarke [00:01:20]:
Yeah. I moved there about 10 years ago kicking and screaming because I married a Wisconsin boy and he's from Milwaukee, so we ended up back there. And I, like, I loved the city so much. I was like, I don't understand why I'm moving to still be cold and still be in the Midwest to this, like, random city. Minneapolis is great. And then I just fell in love with it. Like, it just has there it there's so much to do. The city has grown so much even just since I have been there.
Erin Clarke [00:01:46]:
We've got a great food scene. People are friendly. You're right on, like, Michigan. Like, it really has a lot going for it.
Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Stephanie [00:01:52]:
Yeah. I really my family is in Delafield, but we go into Milwaukee and spend a couple days during the holidays and during the summer. I really like it. So, okay. Well, you're on the verge. Is has your new cookbook come out yet? I imagine it's already out.
Erin Clarke [00:02:08]:
No. It is t minus 11 days. Not that I'm counting. I am absolutely counting every single day. Okay. I just cannot I'm just so giddy. I, like, cannot wait for people to have it in their hands. You are gonna have a 100 recipes in the book, but will you,
Stephanie [00:02:20]:
like, get people that maybe aren't familiar with your profile kinda what your point of view is?
Erin Clarke [00:02:29]:
Absolutely. So I grew up cooking and baking with my grandmothers in Kansas, like pure Midwest comfort food. And then after I graduated college and started living on my own, I realized that I wasn't going to be able to live on grandma's cinnamon rolls and cakes that she taught me to make. So I needed to learn how to cook, and that was where I really started going to farmers markets, like, really just kinda discovering the beauty of eating seasonally, which I feel like we talk about very, you know, it's just so, like, a part of the conversation now. But for me back then, it really wasn't. Like, in my family, like, corn and potatoes are the primary vegetables. So, you know, so I was trying to explore markets, learn how to cook, but I found myself to do this, like, really missing my grandmother's cooking. So I would call my grammy and be like, hey.
Erin Clarke [00:03:18]:
Like, can you tell me about, like, your recipe for enchiladas? And she would, like, in detail, tell me on the phone while I was taking notes. And then I started to think like, okay. Well, you know, I'm learning to cook. I'm trying to feed myself well. Maybe I can make grammy's enchiladas, but let's just do a couple of little swaps, like, that could make it healthier. Let's try it with Greek yogurt instead of sour cream. Let's try a whole wheat tortilla. And then around that time, a friend had encouraged me to start a food blog, and I was like, what is a food blog? Like, I this is very, like, OG days, and I ended up posting the recipe, and I had a few friends from high school make it and love it.
Erin Clarke [00:03:57]:
And they're like, hey. Do you have any other recipes? And I was like, yeah. Like, I do. And so that it that just, you know, kinda sharing the lightened up versions of my grandmother's dishes just sort of started me off, and I still, like, very much keep the midwestern sensibility and unfussiness with my recipes. So if I could describe them briefly, it would be their easy, healthy with, heavy emphasis on lightened up everyday comfort food.
Stephanie [00:04:27]:
Which is perfect. I mean, honestly, that's what I love. I'm kinda more on the comfort food side, but I feel equally as comfortable cooking with kale, you know, as I would, I don't know, corn and potatoes. Right? And just
Erin Clarke [00:04:42]:
Yeah. And I think it's wonderful that people have gotten you know, those ingredients have gotten more main stream. And I really like the idea of finding ways to make healthy eating more accessible. So for example, in my cookbook, on my blog, I will not put an ingredient in there if it's gonna require you to go to a food store. I try to keep the spices, like, very streamlined. I get it. Like, we're all busy and sometimes you're not in the mood to cook. So how can we get to a result that's good for you faster, but it's still delicious? Because life is also just way too short for boring chicken breasts and rice, like, every single night of our lives.
Erin Clarke [00:05:23]:
So how can we have a little fun with it without, you know, making it a ton of work for ourselves either?
Stephanie [00:05:30]:
So how long have you had your blog then?
Erin Clarke [00:05:34]:
Going on 13 years.
Stephanie [00:05:35]:
I was gonna say it has to be about we've had a radio show about food for 15 years, and we kinda started right at the very beginning of, you know, food culture. And that was one of the lot of the bloggers were getting started. And do you still blog a lot, or are you kinda to the stage where you're repurposing recipes and relooking at some of your old content?
Erin Clarke [00:05:57]:
We are doing both. So I still publish about 3 new recipes a week to my blog, and then we're constantly going back especially to some of those older recipes and seeing, you know, if there are tweaks that we can do to make them better. At the beginning, I was the photographer with my, like, flip phone under the our, you know, awful, like, orange light in our kitchen. So some of those recipes, it's been fun to go back and spruce them up. And then as, you know, video has taken over social media and with me being the face of the brand, a lot of the we've been shooting videos with me in them, and that has actually been a ton of fun in the sense of just, like, rediscovering, you know, favorite recipes that I haven't made in years.
Stephanie [00:06:37]:
Yeah. And looking back on, what would you say are, like are there some that are you're known for or that are, like, your specialties?
Erin Clarke [00:06:47]:
I would say I definitely am known overall for 1 pot meals. Like, if I can one pot or one pan something, I will absolutely do it. Recent one that we did, and this is just top of mind because we did the video a couple of weeks ago, is a homemade version of Hamburger Helper. So I grew up, like, Hamburger Helper House all the way, and there's still something, like, very nostalgic and comforting about it. Except, I mean, this will sound hysterical to describe it this way, but it is a gourmet Hamburger Helper. There's just I always like to find, like, just a couple of little things that you can tweak. You know, first of all, it's from scratch. It's easy.
Erin Clarke [00:07:24]:
You don't need the box. And I add a little bit of hot sauce and a little bit of Dijon mustard. You cook everything together in the same pot so that as the pasta cooking liquid reduces and the pasta releases those starches, it makes this really, like, luscious silky sauce without the need for any cream, and everyone loves this recipe. My husband loves it. My nieces love it from Yeah. My nieces that are the age from, like, 4 to 6. They all love this hamburger helper. Like, it's something that the whole family can really sit down and enjoy.
Stephanie [00:07:55]:
I love it. And you really do have a very distinct point of view in how you're thinking about your individual recipes. So I'm guessing you don't have za'atar in any of your ingredients.
Erin Clarke [00:08:07]:
I don't. Even though I personally love za'atar I do too. You know, I love it. I cook with it at home, but I recognize that, like, every single person doesn't have the spice cabinet that I have. So while I'll do, you know, Middle Eastern inspired dishes, and I love to travel so a lot of my dishes are inspired by my travels, I try to do it in a way that brings it home to the Midwest and makes it just as attainable for people as possible.
Stephanie [00:08:34]:
Right. Where is the last place that you traveled to, just out of curiosity?
Erin Clarke [00:08:39]:
We spent a month in France this spring, which was just wonderful. I never I speak pretty good French, and I you know, you just have to go back to practice. Yeah. Really purely academic.
Stephanie [00:08:53]:
Where did you go? What region?
Erin Clarke [00:08:55]:
So each time we go, we try to visit a different region. This time we did Alsace, which is right on the German border, and it is just right out of a fairy tale. It's the some of the little villages around there are what inspired Walt Disney to design Belle's hometown in Beauty and the Beast. And it really was it was like stepping into a storybook. It was just so charming.
Stephanie [00:09:19]:
Are you able to as a content creator, are you able to take, like, a month off and fully unplug, or are you just working remotely? How does that work for you? Because I imagine you've got a team at this point.
Erin Clarke [00:09:32]:
I do. I have a wonderful team. They're just fantastic. Like, well plated would not be able to offer the content that we do without them. And I think that they would probably be more okay with me unplugging than I am okay with myself being totally off. You know, and this is just the reality of being a small business owner. Like, for us, even getting a full day off on the weekend is really, really challenging. And you kind of it kind of bites you the next day, you know, or Monday wouldn't get back.
Erin Clarke [00:10:02]:
I'm trying to be a little better about finding at least one day where we don't do any work. So even when we travel, we are always checking in. We put in a few hours here and there. We're often creating content while we're out there. But I also just view it as, like, wow. How cool is it that I get to yes. You could view it as, like, I'm in France and I'm working.
Stephanie [00:10:22]:
Yeah.
Erin Clarke [00:10:22]:
I view it as, like, how cool I can go to France while I work.
Stephanie [00:10:26]:
Yeah. And it is really like a change in lifestyle. Like, the creative culture has created so much flexibility for so many people. Do you get caught up and worried about, like, the algorithms and when things change and traffic goes down, and are you always kinda chasing that?
Erin Clarke [00:10:43]:
I mean, we are chasing it in the sense that, you know, it is our livelihood. Like, my site depends on traffic, and that traffic primarily for us comes from Google search. So I'm constantly, like, reading articles, trying to stay up to date. At the same time, ranking a friend of mine described it as, like, checking your rankings is, like, standing on the scale every single day. Don't do it. Just overall, you know, we're always looking for healthy growth, and the truth is, like, you are constantly you win some, you lose some. This is a particularly challenging time for online content creators just with AI. You know, no one is really certain of what what that's gonna lead to.
Erin Clarke [00:11:29]:
You're seeing AI appear in search results where independent content creators like myself and my peers used to have our recipes appear. Now it's AI. And just over really, especially the last 5 years, I feel like it's gotten supersaturated. And so Google is sorting through what's quality content and what's not. And so there's less there's just overall there's just less space to go around, and there's less content than ever. Or excuse me, less space to go around and more content than ever.
Stephanie [00:12:01]:
And this idea of low quality is sort of a you know, to get to these advertising tiers, people need to have high quality content. Google's just like, oh, we spotted some low quality content. And you're just like, what? Like, help me figure this out. I so many people have been caught in that kind of trap of trying to grow and not really getting direction very much from Google. And it is just changing the game, I think. And then I wonder, like, okay. As creatives, we're gonna find the next thing. Right? So is it like, I'm seeing a lot of people you mentioned video.
Stephanie [00:12:39]:
I'm seeing a lot of people on YouTube creating their own TV shows. I'm seeing substacks. Is that something that you're exploring? Any of those other alternative avenues?
Erin Clarke [00:12:50]:
It's one of those things where, like, if I could clone myself, I would try to do them all. Substack, I think, is really fun and intriguing to me because it gives people a way to directly support at a very affordable rate their favorite authors, creators. For us, I've but I feel like a key to making that work is to offer content that you can't get anywhere else without paying. Currently, Well Plated is free for readers to access, and we don't really have the capacity to create additional free content on top of that. So kind of the way that we have structured our strategy is to give away as much as possible. Not only are the recipes free, we do free meal plans. And my hope is that we'll make Well Plate as a resource for you and make it the place that you wanna go. And then, you know, for now, if by cultivating that loyal reader base, that can kind of be a foundation of our business that's not subject to algorithms.
Stephanie [00:13:51]:
Yeah. Like maybe creating modules or workbooks or, PDF content that can be about, you know, the top 30 things you need to have in your pantry and blah blah blah.
Erin Clarke [00:14:03]:
Mhmm. Yeah. We're always looking to offer resources right now. We're working on putting together updated super comprehensive Thanksgiving guide that gives you the realistic week of Thanksgiving prep list, not the like I mean, yes. It would be great. I know I can pre freeze pie crust 3 months in advance. I am not freezing my Thanksgiving pie crust 3 months in advance. I'm just not that person.
Erin Clarke [00:14:26]:
I admire that person. I'm not that person. So what say we start on Sunday. Like, how can we really get this done? Yeah. How are we gonna streamline our shopping list? Like, I'm always looking for ways to provide value. So we're really excited about that PDF that'll be coming out here at the end of the month.
Stephanie [00:14:41]:
How many people do you cook for at Thanksgiving?
Erin Clarke [00:14:45]:
I'm very spoiled on Thanksgiving day, and then I get to go to my mom's house. And she and my stepdad are fabulous cooks and take off, like, 2 days of work. And the turkey is like a masterpiece. But for about the last now going on almost oh my gosh. How many years has it been? Now going on almost 15 years, I've been hosting Friendsgiving. Oh, yeah. At its smallest, it was probably about 7 people. At 1 year, we got up to 35 people.
Erin Clarke [00:15:12]:
Now we're kind of somewhere in the sweet spot with around 20. So that every year is just really just it's like chaos, but in the most fun way. Now that, you know, when it started out, it was all adults. We set nice tables. Now my friends have families, so you have kids, like, running around all over the place.
Stephanie [00:15:29]:
Right. Do you do it at a certain time a year, or do you do it in the month of November? Some people I know do, like, it in February and call it febsgiving.
Erin Clarke [00:15:38]:
That's well, with how crazy busy holidays are, I completely understand. And, like, let's be honest, there's not that much to look forward to for most of February March holiday wise. We do we do November. So I guess I'm just lucky because I get I love Thanksgiving food. I'm like, this is great that I get to eat this more than once. I'm gonna eat it for Thanksgiving, and then I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna eat it on the actual holiday.
Stephanie [00:16:01]:
Yes. Super delicious. Okay. So let's talk a little bit more about your book. Like, do you have it organized in any certain way?
Erin Clarke [00:16:09]:
Yes. So I like to and I know cookbooks all take different approaches, and it's kind of fun to see how different cookbook authors differentiate things. For me, I think it's just like, I'm a very traditional cookbook girl in the sense of the organization. So, you know, we start out with breakfast, have appetizers and drinks, salads, and then the main dishes are really the meat and potatoes of the book, pun intended. Just because that is where I know that people need the most help. Like, everyone has to cook dinner. So having a robust assortment of recipes and then organizing those well is really important to me. So we actually ended up breaking the main dishes down into 3 different categories.
Erin Clarke [00:16:55]:
So there's an entire chapter that's just pure one pot meals. One pot, one pan. Boom. We have a chapter, that's mostly focused on lightened up comfort food. And then we have this 3rd chapter that I did not intentionally set out to make it a vegetarian chapter just because I never want vegetarian food to feel lesser than or like it needs to get singled out. But we just ended up with this really wonderful collection of vegetarian dishes. They're also pretty heavily globally inspired that ended up being their own chapter as well. So we call those the veggie mains with all the flavor.
Erin Clarke [00:17:31]:
And then you've got your, you know, your soups, your sides, and, of course, your sweets.
Stephanie [00:17:36]:
How do you find, like so you have a team of people. How do you find them? Do you just advertise for them and interview just like a normal company would?
Erin Clarke [00:17:46]:
It's really hard. It's really hard to find good people. Like, I feel incredibly lucky. I've worked with most of my team for 5 years or longer. Some of it has been word-of-mouth. You know, like, other bloggers will work with someone and say, hey. You know, my social media person you know, I might reach out to a friend and say, hey. I'm really looking for someone to help me with my Facebook.
Erin Clarke [00:18:08]:
And, you know, friends will generously say, like, hey. My social media manager is great. Why don't you reach out to her? You know, some of it has been we went through our when we hired our first full time employee, we did the whole post on Indeed, like, a really rigorous application interview process. And I actually ended up finding Brenna, our first employee, because I posted on my Instagram. And so she reached out, applied through Indeed, you know, and we'd really went through that formal process. But it is truly time consuming and exhausting. Yeah. It's hard.
Erin Clarke [00:18:38]:
And I think every business I don't exhausting. Yeah. It's hard. And I think every business, I don't find myself unique in that way. And I think the first hire or the first couple are also really
Stephanie [00:18:46]:
hard because you're probably getting to the point where you can monetize some things, but it, like, takes money to make money, and it takes more hands to make money. So
Erin Clarke [00:19:01]:
Mhmm.
Stephanie [00:19:02]:
How did you feel like you knew when that time was right?
Erin Clarke [00:19:07]:
When I just could not it just got to a point where I either had to be we either needed to hire someone or we needed to be okay with doing a lot less.
Stephanie [00:19:18]:
Yeah.
Erin Clarke [00:19:18]:
And I just could not you know, at that point, I had managed to outsource, you know, the recipe photography, the social media, But I really was so burned out, and I was like, I can't you know, I love what I do, but I can't do it at the right capacity. And I'm not enjoying my life. So how do I find someone that I really want to invest in? And invest is the word to use because as you said, it is not cheap to hire someone. Not only to pay, you know, if you wanna hire someone good, they deserve a great wage.
Stephanie [00:19:51]:
Yep.
Erin Clarke [00:19:51]:
And then also even expenses like setting up a 401 k, kind of thinking through some of those pieces. Like, that is administratively very time consuming, and it is costly. But it's worth it. Like, I that was, you know, one of the best decisions I've ever made for my business.
Stephanie [00:20:08]:
And things like health care. I mean, if you are employing people full time, they want benefits.
Erin Clarke [00:20:14]:
Yeah. Exactly. And you can choose not to offer benefits, but then you're not gonna get the quality of candidates that you're looking for. And also just personally, for me, like, building a company where I can provide benefits for people, like, that's something that I'm proud of and that we wanna be able to offer.
Stephanie [00:20:31]:
Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned that because I had a business before getting I'm mostly a broadcaster who happens to write some cookbooks that are regionally based. But before being a broadcaster, I did have a small business, and I was really proud of the fact that we always offered health care. Like, it just felt like, businesses. I didn't it's not the business's job, but it is the way our society is set up. So if that's the way it's gonna be, then let's participate. Let's do it. Let's take care of our employees.
Stephanie [00:21:00]:
At some point, I wish that everyone could have a single payer health care system and just pay into it, but that's my utopian fantasy as a freelancer out here still, you know, paying for health care on the open market. It's not cheap.
Erin Clarke [00:21:13]:
No. It's not. It's really challenging.
Stephanie [00:21:15]:
I know. And that someday we're all gonna get together. Like, there's a 150,000 creatives just in the state of Minnesota all buying independent health care. It'd be cool if we could find some way to all band together and bring everyone else's cost down too. Right?
Erin Clarke [00:21:29]:
Yeah. I love it. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:21:32]:
Can you tell me some of your favorite cookbooks? Like, do you, like, even look at cookbooks anymore, or are you just so focused on your own?
Erin Clarke [00:21:41]:
No. I just love cookbooks. I read cookbooks like people read novels, which is why, you know, if you read my first cookbook and my second one when it comes out, like, the writing is incredibly personal to me. I pour, like, so much of myself into that because food you know, the recipes need to work. They need to be rock solid. That's the number one thing with a cookbook. And we work incredibly, incredibly diligently on that. My whole team does.
Erin Clarke [00:22:06]:
But from there, like, I just want a cookbook with some personality.
Stephanie [00:22:10]:
Yeah.
Erin Clarke [00:22:10]:
And so, like, I just find it so inspiring to hear both the food, hear the stories. And then I can say, like, anyone can post a recipe online, and I absolutely stand behind the quality of the well plated recipes that we do online. But there is something special and a higher standard about a cookbook that, there it's just, like, sacred to me. Like, I feel like you're, like, getting a a piece of someone. And I have a lot a lot of cookbooks. I joke, but it's not it's actually quite true that Ina Garten taught me how to cook when I started. When I started my blog, my husband was in law school. We were on a budget.
Erin Clarke [00:22:49]:
Like, we were not going out to eat, And he had a voracious appetite. So I was like, okay. I gotta figure out how to cook food that tastes good because we enjoy you know, that we'll enjoy eating that, you know, makes a decent enough quantity to feed him, like, start hosting friends. And so I just checked out Ina's cookbooks from the library and would read them and, you know, work my way through them. So from there so the foundation of my grandmother's and then, like, moving on to Ina Garten.
Stephanie [00:23:19]:
Yeah.
Erin Clarke [00:23:19]:
Some of the and then I also, you know, now that I am a professional recipe developer, I also have taken lessons from the way that some of the best of the best write their recipes. So one person that always comes in mind to me is Dori Greenspan. I just think she has this beautiful way of writing recipes, and she's kind of who I learned. Like, don't you can't just don't just tell me the time on the stove. I need you to tell me what it smells like. I need you to tell me, you know, if the color's golden. Like, how do we appeal to all of these different senses to make people feel really confident? And that confidence aspect is really important to me too. So I want you to feel good the entire time you're making my recipe, not just be, like, pleased at the end that it turned out.
Erin Clarke [00:24:04]:
So, you know, if you're making a cake batter and it looks curdled, I'm gonna tell you it will it looks curdled. It'll be fine. And I feel like I picked some of that up from Dory Greenspan as well.
Stephanie [00:24:17]:
Oh, wow. Those are some of my heroes too. So it's fun to hear you say that. Have you I just started reading the Ina Garten memoir.
Erin Clarke [00:24:24]:
Oh, I'm listening to it. I'm about a third of the way through. It's just delightful.
Stephanie [00:24:28]:
I know. She's so great. I does she read it? I probably should have listened because I just find her so she's so funny.
Erin Clarke [00:24:36]:
She really is. Yeah. She it's just it's delightful.
Stephanie [00:24:39]:
Yeah. Okay. So people can come to your you can do a reading. You're gonna be at Valley Booksellers in Stillwater on October 13th.
Erin Clarke [00:24:48]:
We are doing the event at Modern Well. So it's in partnership with Valley. So it's in Minneapolis, and I will have a partner in conversation, Leigh Funke, from Fit Foodie Finds, who is a friend and just, like, a rock star food blogger who is also based in the Twin Cities. So she graciously agreed to do a q and a with me. We'll be having some snacks passed out from the book. It's just gonna be a really funny thing of conversation. Of course, everyone will leave with a signed copy of the book, and I'm just so looking forward to having that in person connection.
Stephanie [00:25:23]:
Yes. I'll go ahead and put a link for tickets in the show notes. I'm gonna bump up when I, release this podcast so that people have time to get tickets. It was super nice to talk with you and to meet you. I'm excited about your book. I have followed you on Instagram, so it's fun to get a chance to talk with you. And I loved hearing how thoughtful you are about your point of view on the recipes. It really shows in the work that you do.
Stephanie [00:25:49]:
You're doing a really good
Erin Clarke [00:25:51]:
job. Thank you so so much. That really just means a lot. I can't overstate how much that means because sometimes you just feel I mean it's hard.
Stephanie [00:25:59]:
You're in the void.
Erin Clarke [00:25:59]:
It's hard. It's a lot of work. Yeah. Mhmm.
Stephanie [00:26:01]:
Absolutely. Alright, Erin. It's great. Good luck with the book and I maybe we'll see you at Modern Well. Who knows?
Erin Clarke [00:26:08]:
Yeah. I hope so. It was great meeting you.
Stephanie [00:26:10]:
Okay. Thanks, Sarah.
Erin Clarke [00:26:11]:
Thanks again.

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Lauren McDuffie
4 Okt· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
@Lauren_McDuffie, is the author of the beautiful and inspiring cookbook "Homemade-ish: Recipes and Cooking Tips That Keep It Real" Known for her knack of blending home-cooked charm with modern-day convenience, Lauren's work has been making waves in the culinary world. We'll dive into her creative process, chat about her beloved blog "My Kitchen Little," and get a glimpse into the life of someone who beautifully marries food, photography, and writing.
So grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and get ready to be inspired by the delightful Lauren McDuffie.
TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS:
Stephanie [00:00:15]:
Hi. Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, and I am here with the author Lauren McDuffie, Talking With My Mouth Full , and she is someone that I'm just getting familiar with. So Lauren, welcome to the program.
Lauren McDuffie [00:00:26]:
Thank you so much for having me.
Stephanie [00:00:28]:
Yeah. Your book, Homemade-ish, I think I saw it, like, on maybe a publisher's weekly list, and then I started paging through it. And you're I I hope this, like, hits you in the right way. You're kind of, like, sort of semi homemade ish, but not exactly.
Lauren McDuffie [00:00:48]:
Yes. No. That's you really hit the nail on the head with that. Okay. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:00:52]:
I used to watch semi homemade with Sandra Lee you. In the beginning of the Food Network days, and she's kinda gotten a bad rap. What I loved about her and what I loved when I was going through your book too is just this idea that we don't have to, like, make every single thing from scratch in order to put a decent meal on the table for our family.
Lauren McDuffie [00:01:16]:
Right. It's just that's just true.
Stephanie [00:01:19]:
And it prevents people sometimes from cooking at all. This idea that cooking is so complicated and so hard. And as someone who I mean, I'm just a home cook, and I feel like that's a great space where you can sometimes take shortcuts and also knowing the shortcuts to take.
Lauren McDuffie [00:01:38]:
Yes. Exactly.
Stephanie [00:01:40]:
So your book, Homemade-ish
Lauren McDuffie [00:01:42]:
Mhmm.
Stephanie [00:01:43]:
Is really lovely. And I felt like was the modern day version of sort of that idea because your food looks incredible. Your you must be a are you a a photo stylist? Because your food in your book is, like, amazing.
Lauren McDuffie [00:01:58]:
Thank you. Yes. I did the photography and the styling for all my books, and it's I just love that part of the process so much. So thank you for saying that.
Stephanie [00:02:07]:
I did laugh because you have a piece in there you, talk about, like, I just love this. This is my joy. And I'm in the middle of finishing a second book, and I'm not feeling that it's my joy.
Lauren McDuffie [00:02:23]:
I get that too. Yeah. That's fair. I was like, I'm all the time. So I under Yeah.
Stephanie [00:02:30]:
I have 35 pictures left, and I don't even wanna eat the food anymore because I'm so sick of it.
Lauren McDuffie [00:02:35]:
Yep. You've spent enough time with it probably. Yes. I get that. I do.
Stephanie [00:02:40]:
So catch my listeners up a little bit about you and who you are and your blog.
Lauren McDuffie [00:02:46]:
Okay. So I yes. I run a, a recipe website called my kitchen little, which I think it just turned 5, like, within the past week. So I I don't know. In blog years, that's not a baby anymore. So and and I run it as a business, which I really, I really enjoy. But prior to this website, I had a blog, which was very much a writing space. I love to write, and I started that, I don't know, maybe 12, 13 years ago, a long time ago back when food blogs were still sort of a novel thing.
Lauren McDuffie [00:03:19]:
Not everyone had one at the time. So I started I started that when my daughter was was a baby, and I just needed an outlet. And for me, cooking has always been my favorite sort of creative outlet. I love food. I love to talk about food, and a blog just seemed like a really nice way to gather together my creative interest with writing and cooking. And and, eventually, I fell in love with photography just by necessity because I learned that people want to see what you're talking about. Yes. So I grew a new love for that whole side of it too.
Lauren McDuffie [00:03:50]:
So so I had a food blog for a really long time purely as a hobby, but I I I met a lot of other people along the way who were in in food land just like me but in different ways. And, I had the opportunity to do my my first cookbook several years ago, which was kind of an homage to my Appalachian roots. And then I did another book a few years later, which is called Southern Lights. I lived in Charleston, South Carolina at the time. And
Stephanie [00:04:15]:
You did? My brother lives there. I love Charleston so much.
Lauren McDuffie [00:04:18]:
I love you. We moved to Portland a year ago from Charleston, and I was very sad to leave. But I love Portland too. So so it's it's been fine. But, yeah, I have a special spot in my heart for Charleston, and that book sort of was inspired by just my time living in, the low country and in the south, and I wanted to show off the healthier side of the southern table, which was a really fun book project. But, this book, Homemade ish, I just really enjoyed doing because I've found that a lot of my actual friends, like in my neighborhood and in my real life, are really drawn to things that are genuinely easy, truly low maintenance, and unintimidating. You know, I love a long cooking project with the best of them, something that takes all day and then I have to go out into the world to find really obscure ingredients. I like that because I'm a food nerd, and that's the kind of stuff that makes me happy.
Lauren McDuffie [00:05:11]:
But a lot of people, in fact, most people that I know, they're not like that. They they do, however, want to make food themselves in their home because there's a lot to be said for that, but they wanna do it with the least amount of fuss, you know, possible. And so that's really where the idea for this book came. And I also did use to watch semi homemade, and I appreciated kind of the heart of the show. The point of it made so much sense to me. So, yeah, I kind of wanted to breathe some modern new life into that concept. And because ready made foods and store bought foods have really come a long way since the nineties, and there's so much out there, that's that's really great fodder for jumping off and being creative and doctoring up into something new. And that was that's kind of the point of the book.
Stephanie [00:05:57]:
Yeah. So you take something that's maybe giving you a a a helping hand as it were, like pesto or deli meats or even, rotisserie chicken
Lauren McDuffie [00:06:08]:
Yes.
Stephanie [00:06:08]:
And then you kinda take it the rest of the way.
Lauren McDuffie [00:06:11]:
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that cookbooks really serve a wonderful purpose in just giving ideas also. I think sometimes just coming up with what to make for dinner can be, you know, a deterrent in and of itself. And so I'm I'm hoping that these recipes are also fodder for people's own just riffing and and their own interpretation. So, hopefully, it'll help people see their grocery stores kind of in a new light. Like, what do you mean for me? Yeah. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:06:38]:
You mentioned in the book, I think it's 5, like, of your favorite products that everyone should have in their pantry at all times that you always have a meal available. And maybe it wasn't exactly 5, but I think it was pesto was 1. Yep. Curry. I think prepared curry was the
Lauren McDuffie [00:06:58]:
paste. I love I love a curry paste.
Stephanie [00:07:01]:
And can you share a few more?
Lauren McDuffie [00:07:03]:
Sure. And I think that this list probably changes, a little bit, but for me, a rotisserie chicken is always a go to. I I tend to never get sick of finding ways to wield a rotisserie chicken because you can just do so much with them. But I think this is gonna you know, people scoff at at bagged salads sometimes, which is silly to me, but I do a lot in this book with bagged salads. I usually have one in my fridge to play on and and riff on. I think they're really valuable because it saves you time with chopping and Yeah. Procuring all of the individual things. I just there's something to be said for that.
Lauren McDuffie [00:07:41]:
So
Stephanie [00:07:41]:
Do you have bagged salad? Like, are you an Aldi person? Are you a Trader Joe's person? Are you whatever your grocery store is where you are? Because they apparently someone told me once that the bagged salads at Aldi that are $3 are really quite good, and I've never had
Lauren McDuffie [00:07:57]:
I haven't either. Although, I'm people I see people talking about Aldi more and more singing its praises. So I will have to check that out. That's really good intel.
Stephanie [00:08:07]:
I can't get past the quarter to get the cart.
Lauren McDuffie [00:08:10]:
Oh. Oh, yeah. I can't do that.
Stephanie [00:08:12]:
I'm like, come on. Like, it's a quarter, but people say it ensures that the people bring the carts back into the store.
Lauren McDuffie [00:08:21]:
I see. Okay. Okay. I'm just like, charge
Stephanie [00:08:24]:
me a dollar. I don't care. I just want I don't wanna have to fish around in my bag for a quarter.
Lauren McDuffie [00:08:29]:
Right. I know. That's true. I didn't know about that whole thing. Okay. That is interesting. But it's funny you mentioned Trader Joe's because I just went there last week for the first time in, like, 6 years for no reason other than that. I've moved a few times and COVID happened, and I just hadn't been in a while, and I forgot how much I love that store.
Lauren McDuffie [00:08:49]:
Yeah. And it it's perfect for this book because they have so many wonderful things that are already kind of made and started for you. But, yeah, I almost panic bought so many things when I went in there because I was like, oh gosh. It all looks so good.
Stephanie [00:09:03]:
You are my person because I'm a panic shopper. Yeah. Like, where I just and and during COVID, I mean, I have still nightmares about trying to go to the grocery store during COVID and just literally throwing things in your cart and running out. But I'm also a panic orderer at a restaurant because I want everything.
Lauren McDuffie [00:09:23]:
Oh, I know. I I feel you on that. I'm a little bit like that. I close my eyes and just play roulette and
Stephanie [00:09:29]:
Yes.
Lauren McDuffie [00:09:30]:
That's like your dog. No. I get that. But I did I got some salads there last week to your point that were very good. So but, yeah, normally, I I grocery shop so much just for my work that it's almost a daily thing. And, I do get delivered groceries, which people think is funny because I don't always pick out my own individual this and that. But for pure efficiency sake, again, which is sort of the heart of this book, I just shop at, like, my big local supermarket and and get all my bagged salads and sundries there and, you know, use them in a pinch. They're always helpful.
Stephanie [00:10:04]:
Every day, what does your day look like? Like, are you already working on the next book, and is that what you're doing every day?
Lauren McDuffie [00:10:11]:
Yeah. You know, I, I did this book right before we moved from Charleston to Portland, and I did it really fast. For me, it was it was fast. And it didn't burn me out, but it definitely gave me a nice kind of pause in in the the cookbook making because I had a book come out a year ago as well. So I had 2 come out pretty close together, which has been really fun. But I'm just kind of enjoying sitting back a little and looking at the stuff I've made, and and I'm actually working on a non food related book, right now just to see, if that can go anywhere. So but I've been focusing a lot on my my website and growing that. I just you know, as I said before, it's past the 5 year mark, and it's really nice to see that, coming more to fruition and and doing doing pretty well.
Lauren McDuffie [00:11:02]:
So I've just kind of thrown myself into the to that side of things, but I'm sure another book idea will will will surface because I love making them. But, like, you you were just saying, it's a lot when you're in it. It's like, woah. I'm I why am I doing this? But it's it's great when all is said and done, but, yeah, I took a little break.
Stephanie [00:11:19]:
There's been a kinda trend that I've been seeing with cookbook authors and recipe developers. I'm curious if you're thinking about this at all. We have a lot of people that have launched substacks, and Instagram and TikTok are just full of recipes. And we're in some respects, I feel like have reached this, like, everything is just like this free recipe, and people just comment like recipe, recipe, recipe. Yes. And Yes. With that, which is great because you build an audience and you build a community, there are some creators that are like, wow. I'm just putting all this time, energy, and money into this thing that the books aren't making money like they used to.
Stephanie [00:12:06]:
Podcasts have never really made money unless you're, like, the top 20. And so we have all these creators spending all this energy, and we're all chasing, you know, the few scents that you get when someone watches something on a YouTube. So I'm wondering if, like, we're almost at, like, some of the creators, Carolyn Chambers has talked about this, about taking all of her recipes off of her website and really funneling people only into recipe ways that she can monetize. Have you thought about that at all, or do you think about that when you're working on your blog?
Lauren McDuffie [00:12:41]:
Yeah. I do. Because sometimes it does start to feel almost futile when you really sit back and you think of I mean, and you just summarized it really well. I go back and forth. I mean, I actually started a substack, as well, and I've enjoyed that as a separate space for me to write more creatively because no one comes to food blogs anymore, as you know, to hear hear what anyone has to say about their life. I mean, that's a that's a big joke now. You know, get to the recipe already. And so my self stack became sort of that.
Lauren McDuffie [00:13:09]:
I think for me, it's been motivating because my own traffic on my website has grown exponentially over the last year, really, year, maybe year and a half, and that keeps me in the game. But I do sometimes wonder and I had someone ask me just last week about, another factor, which is AI is now a part of things as well too, which is so intimidating and it makes me wonder, is that where people are just going to stop, you know, for all of their their recipes? And are we gonna become obsolete? I don't know. It's scary actually to think about it. But but I have some very, very dear friends who are full time food bloggers and are very helpful resources for me and have taught me a lot about SEO, so I which is search engine optimization, and it's sort of how to play the game with Google so that you get your content in front of all the people out there who are googling things all the time. And it keeps me inspired and motivated when I talk to other people who have found real success in this. But I don't know. To your question, it is a little bit nerve wracking and and scary to think about what's gonna happen 5 years from now. I don't really know, but I just know that I enjoy doing it and I I'm enjoying the little wins and little successes that I'm seeing month to month right now, and that's keeping me going.
Lauren McDuffie [00:14:27]:
And and the books, like you said, you know, I don't know many people who write cookbooks to get rich, but, it's a wonderfully legitimizing thing to have. I love having a tangible representation of of my work, and it's it's just I I love them. I love that I've that I've done them, and it's it's valuable in other ways that aren't necessarily monetary. And and it all kind of works together as this little food machine and who knows exactly where it's going, but I I'm confident and optimistic that it'll still be, there's still a place for our blogs and recipe websites.
Stephanie [00:15:01]:
Well and to your point, I think what is also happening, which is sort of in your wheelhouse, I don't consider myself a writer. My husband actually is a writer, So I'm pretty careful about what that looks like in that space. I am a 300 words or less person. I am a bullet pointed list. I just that's how I think, and that's what works for me. But to your point, if you have, like, talent in the writing space and having your own personal points of view, I do think that there's always gonna be room for that where people align with your vision or your values or your lifestyle choices, and they get to know you and they wanna be more in your world?
Lauren McDuffie [00:15:44]:
Hope so. Yeah. I think so too. I really do. That that human element of the equation is special, and I think people like it. It's it's a really nice thing. And so I'm hoping in fact, you know, I've actually made a commitment to invest more into the writing in my website even though I'm not telling you a story about my life anymore.
Stephanie [00:16:05]:
Right. But you
Lauren McDuffie [00:16:06]:
can still weave your voice into how you explain food. You know, most of my my blog posts, I don't even really call it a blog anymore. It really is more of a recipe website, but there's still tons of words in there. And you could pick and choose which words you use, and I try to make mine as useful, but also entertaining and worth people's time to read, and that's one way you can separate yourself from the bazillions of other people who are doing the same thing. So
Stephanie [00:16:32]:
Yeah. So I'm talking with Lauren McDuffie, and her book is Homadish. Couple of other things in your book specifically that I really loved. I I don't know. I I was, was thinking about this today. I was, doing a TV segment with a friend and there was a laundry guy on and he was talking about, know, the 5 things you need to have in your laundry room. And I thought, wow. You know, there's blogs and I've got, like, kitchen essentials and you really broke it down this in in your book, some things worth noting about what you should the 13 things you literally need to have in your kitchen.
Stephanie [00:17:10]:
I've never seen a list so small and so spot on. So good for you.
Lauren McDuffie [00:17:15]:
Thank you. Yeah. I, I that list came to be because I was photographing the book, and, I realized I have I have rooms filled with props and things that I've used for years because I work as a food photographer and a stylist. But in, you know, in the name of keeping things real and, authentic, I just used the stuff that I genuinely cook with in my real life. So, yeah, it made it it made it very clear that you don't need a lot. I love minimalism. It makes me feel good, and so I wanted to kinda capture that.
Stephanie [00:17:47]:
Yeah. So it was a cutting board, a chef's knife, a large deep lidded pot, a large skillet, a medium lidded pot, large baking sheets, a muffin pan, which I might argue with you on the muffin pan.
Lauren McDuffie [00:17:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. I know. I had to sneak that in because there's 2 recipes in my book that require it.
Stephanie [00:18:03]:
Okay. Alright. A Dutch oven, a grater, a can opener, a large spatula or spoon, a blender, or and a strainer. And and, like, I guess because the one thing that the muffin pan is is you can't replicate a muffin pan, really.
Lauren McDuffie [00:18:17]:
Well, that's true. Well and I think, specifically, I was just trying to say that you can literally make every single thing in this book with just these 13 things, but I'd be willing to stretch that and say you could probably get by with cooking a lot more for a lot longer with just these things. You really don't need I mean and you're right. The muffin pan is very unique to the to the book. But, yeah, I I think in general, less is more. I'm not a big, single use kitchen tool person. I used to be, but we have moved so much. Like, my family, we've moved a lot, and that'll make a minimalist out of you.
Lauren McDuffie [00:18:52]:
Yeah. It had it had me. So, yeah, I wanted to weave that notion into this book because I think it's kind of
Stephanie [00:18:58]:
refreshing. So do you have an instant pot or a slow cooker?
Lauren McDuffie [00:19:01]:
I do have a slow cooker because I love them. They're so helpful, and I love a slow cooked thing. Like, we're getting into that season now, so mine's like, I've just dusted it off and it's ready to go. But, yeah, I I don't have an instant pot, and I'm sure I would like it. I mean, I'm sure I would like an air fryer. I don't have that either, and I I know people love them. But that's just me probably being resistant to one change. And then also, you know, if we move again, that's another thing I'm gonna have to pack and unpack.
Lauren McDuffie [00:19:31]:
So
Stephanie [00:19:32]:
Yeah. You don't need a air fryer. And the only thing I would say about the Instant Pot is the pressure cooking aspect is really nice, and it's a slow cooker too. Oh, yes. But there's something kinda homey about your ceramic slow cooker. You know?
Lauren McDuffie [00:19:49]:
Yes. And I love just I love a Dutch oven, like, old school just but I also work from home, and so I'm here to to do that. But for I used to not work in my house, and I loved a slow cooker because it just it made everything so easy.
Stephanie [00:20:04]:
Yes.
Lauren McDuffie [00:20:04]:
Yeah.
Stephanie [00:20:06]:
So as you're thinking about food trends and kind of new products, like, one of the, you have a recipe that's kinda like this. You know, we went through a shakshuka phase.
Lauren McDuffie [00:20:18]:
Yes.
Stephanie [00:20:19]:
Mhmm. Are there any, like, trends that you're seeing on the horizon that you're like, oh, I need to simplify that?
Lauren McDuffie [00:20:28]:
That's that's a great question. I well, one trend that I've literally been working on just this morning is I'm really obsessed with chili crisp, which is something I see all over the place. I like spice. And so I've been trying to think of ways in fact, I just shared in my, I think I shared in my news letter, or I'm getting ready to, ways to kind of make your own but using a store bought one as your just like with homemade ish, using it as a launch pad. So I took a chili crisp that I bought, from maybe Trader Joe's, and I turned it into a southern style chili crisp by adding something like candied pecans and a little apple cider vinegar and, like Yum. Like, so it it and brown sugar, I think, or or molasses is what it was. But, anyways, I southernized, an already store bought product, which is very much what this book is sort of all about. But I keep seeing chili crisp everywhere, and it makes me so happy because I love it.
Stephanie [00:21:23]:
I really wanna put that on a white bean or cauliflower or puree. I'm just hearing you talk about it.
Lauren McDuffie [00:21:30]:
That's the perfect idea. Yeah. That would be fun.
Stephanie [00:21:33]:
Do you like, some of the as I look at cookbooks Mhmm. Sometimes I see, like, that and this is why I'm probably not a very prolific person when I do this. I kind of plot along. Like, oh, I'm gonna make, you know, this, double stuffed something. And then they find 12 other ways to make the same thing, but just with different twists on it. Do you think like that?
Lauren McDuffie [00:22:01]:
I think I do now, but that's because I have to think strategically about how I publish recipes on and on my website, at least, because that's very that's very useful just for getting views and getting people. It's funny how how my brain splits into when I'm writing recipes for a book. It's a very different it's much freer, actually, creatively. But then, to your question, when I'm working on coming up with recipes for my, for my website, yeah, if I can split something off and offer variations, that serves me really well. So, yeah, I think my brain does work that way. Yeah. The more the merrier.
Stephanie [00:22:39]:
Yeah. And and I know I I'm always like, there's a reason people are doing it like this. And
Lauren McDuffie [00:22:44]:
Yeah.
Stephanie [00:22:44]:
I'm not doing it like that, but I know there's a reason why people are. And it never occurred to me that it was due to SEO, but that makes total sense.
Lauren McDuffie [00:22:52]:
Yeah. That's why I would do it at least. Yeah. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:22:56]:
Are there other cookbook authors that inspire you or that like, books that you just will never take off your shelf considering that you've moved, so you've probably pared down?
Lauren McDuffie [00:23:05]:
Yes. I really have. I donated some books that I'd worn pretty well. But, yes. I, I love Alison Roman's books. I I just I think the well, her food is a lot like the food that I just cook for myself, on any given day because it's very simple. It's nothing more than it needs to be, and I like that. But I really respect and appreciate anybody that truly innovates and carves out their own style.
Lauren McDuffie [00:23:32]:
That's really hard to do. I mean, I live in this very saturated world of, you know, recipe development and food. And so anytime someone comes along and has a very distinct and sort of fresh feeling, point of view, I just think that's great. I admire that. At it. Yeah. She's good at that. She's she's done that for herself.
Lauren McDuffie [00:23:50]:
So she's the first person that came to mind. And and I have her books. They're sitting out, and they have been for a long time. So yeah. Yeah. I love her.
Stephanie [00:23:59]:
When you is there, like, a classic recipe that you just find yourself coming back to that's maybe from your blog that you just love and
Lauren McDuffie [00:24:09]:
Yeah. I always say my, my most, I guess, well loved and well worn recipe, it's, I love Cajun and Creole, Cuisine, and I've got just this etouffee recipe that I have been making for a really, really long time, that's got shrimp and and chicken and andouille, and it's just so good. I've made it for, I think, everyone that has ever come to my house. It's just so tasty, and it tastes better the longer that it sits. Anything that can check that box, I'm gonna automatically be a fan of. But but I think that's my all time favorite, and I love, like, a Cocoa Van, as well. In fact, I'm sitting here today working on chicken stew collection, for my website, and that's just my favorite, I think, category of of food just in general. But my all time favorite would be the this like an etouffee, like a spicy one.
Lauren McDuffie [00:24:59]:
Yeah. I love them, and I make them all the time. So
Stephanie [00:25:02]:
Yeah. And that is super southern too. Like Yep. Something that you know, sometimes I think, like, oh, do I even need to, like, tell someone a recipe for this? Like, some of it seems so obvious.
Lauren McDuffie [00:25:15]:
Oh, sure.
Stephanie [00:25:15]:
That is something and and I guess you get accustomed. Like, I can make gravy like nobody's business. Yeah. Sure. But I you know, in the Midwest, we had grew up with gravy on everything, so it's Yeah. Sort of unique.
Lauren McDuffie [00:25:28]:
And appreciate that. I know. I I forget sometimes how, I I assume things are just, so easy and you don't need recipes for things, but then I'll have friends who just are like, Lauren, no. That's why I wrote this book. They're just like, you know, I don't know what I'm doing. My brain doesn't work that way. And so I always equate it to the way that I am with gardening. I don't know how to do anything with plants at all.
Lauren McDuffie [00:25:51]:
I'm so ignorant, and so I always just try to remember, like, how I am with plants is how some people are with cooking. It's just not your you wanna do it, but you just aren't super well versed in. So
Stephanie [00:26:01]:
yeah. Alright. Well, I'm gonna put a link to the book, obviously, homemade ish, in the notes here. I will also, remind me of the name of your blog again.
Lauren McDuffie [00:26:12]:
It's called my kitchen little, and so it's just my kitchen little dot com.
Stephanie [00:26:15]:
It's cute. And then, I'll find your substack, and I'll link to it too. Great. And we'll go from there. But it was really lovely to spend time with you. I Right. Really think the book is clever. I felt like I knew right away people in my life that would really get a lot out of this.
Lauren McDuffie [00:26:33]:
Good to hear.
Stephanie [00:26:34]:
And, it's beautifully shot, which is also I really admire that because I'm over here with my stupid iPhone, but it's, it's beautifully shot. It looks great, and I would recommend that people buy it. I when I really sat down with it and went through the recipes, I liked it very much. It's homemade ish. Recipes and cooking tips that keep it real. And I liked your 13 things you need in the kitchen probably minus the muffin pan.
Lauren McDuffie [00:27:01]:
That's fair. That's fair. I get it. Alright. Thanks, Lauren. Thank you so much.
Stephanie [00:27:06]:
Okay. We'll talk soon. Bye bye.
Lauren McDuffie [00:27:13]:
Bye bye.

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Jason Derusha
20 Sep· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
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TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS:
Stephanie [00:00:15]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to people that are obsessed with food. And, Jason Derusha, I don't know how you feel about being introduced as being obsessed with food. I probably should start with that you're a very professional broadcaster first.
Jason Derusha [00:00:32]:
I'm pretty obsessed, though, so I think it works. I think it works.
Stephanie [00:00:36]:
Jason is the host of Drive Time with Derusha from 3 to 6 on WCCO Radio. And you may have known him from making the leap from being a TV news anchor to a broadcaster over in the audio space. You and I are are friendly. We, see each other at things and we chat and you've been super helpful for me in my freelance journey. But I just really wanted to chat with you about, like, how's it going? Most people, I think, see the idea of being on, like, the evening news and then going to AM radio as a step back. But I thought it was super fascinating for you, and I'd just love to see how it's going.
Jason Derusha [00:01:18]:
Well, thank you, and I appreciate you asking me. It is, I I had to get over my own sort of mental block as to whether or not this was a step back. And, also, like, is that even a relevant question? Like, who cares if it's a step back? Right? But, all of these things are sort of wrapped up in, oh, gosh. It just goes back to, like, when you're a kid. Right? Like, what was your vision of yourself? Is it okay to stop and say, like, I think I've achieved what I need to achieve? And that that sort of I don't know. It was an emotional decision for me because very much my identity was wrapped up in being the TV news guy.
Stephanie [00:02:03]:
Yeah.
Jason Derusha [00:02:04]:
And probably for my 1st year at WCCO Radio, when I would do events, I would I would, still, like, sort of struggle with how do I introduce myself. And even stuff like talking to my my, kids about you know, as an alum of Marquette University, when I was the morning news anchor, like, there was some prestige with that. When you are the afternoon radio talk show host on AM radio, It's just a little different for a younger generation. I will say this. Releasing yourself from sort of the burden of your own self expectations is incredibly liberating. And doing something because you wanna grow and you wanna challenge yourself and you want to be sort of okay at something and then get better, oh my gosh. Like, it has been so invigorating for me. I'm so glad I did it.
Stephanie [00:03:07]:
It's such a weird thing too because I came from radio and did then go to TV.
Jason Derusha [00:03:14]:
Yeah.
Stephanie [00:03:14]:
And and people act like TV is like the holy grail, but yet you've been doing something for 15 years over here. And the mediums are both broadcast, but the way you interact with people is super different.
Jason Derusha [00:03:28]:
Yes. Yeah. I've found you know, morning news and talk radio have a little more in common than when I was on the nighttime news. I remember when I was the Good Question reporter in the 10 o'clock news at WCCO TV. When I went to the morning show, all of a sudden, there was this much more personal intimate connection with the audience. And doing talk radio is like next level of that. Where on television, like, people got little glimpses into my life. And on radio, you know, all last week, and we're recording this in early September, but when when I was at the Minnesota State Fair, people were coming up to me wishing me good luck at dropping off my oldest at NYU because they knew this weekend I was going to New York to drop off my oldest.
Jason Derusha [00:04:17]:
Like, they just have that relationship with you, which is really fun. I mean, I think I've always had, maybe more of a personal relationship with the audience and, like, the traditional, you know, stand on mount anchor desk and deliver the sermon sort of TV news anchor that's never really been me. But it's just different when you have 3 hours to talk to people. You know?
Stephanie [00:04:39]:
One thing that's really struck me as a talk radio fan, and I have been for, I don't know, my whole life really from the time that my dad made me listen to WCCO in the 5th grade on the drive to school. I'm very impressed with how you handle this time that we're in where politics is so polarizing and people are just so feeling their feels all the time and really need to share those feelings with you. I just was noticing on, posts that you did that someone was mad that you weren't at the state fair on Labor Day and it's like, wow. People. But, also, I love the way that you you let people have their opinions, but you also don't let them abuse you, and I think there's a difference.
Jason Derusha [00:05:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's tricky. I mean, in TV news, I spent 25 years trying to get the audience to trust me. And part of that is, especially in morning news, you wanna be liked. Not that you shy away from asking tough questions, but you wanna do it in a likable way. That's what the audience wants. And here in in the talk space, it's it's hard.
Jason Derusha [00:05:56]:
It would be very easy if I were a left wing talk show host or a right wing talk show host, and then you just play the hits. You are essentially KDWB of political ideas. You play the top 40. You people know what you're gonna do, and you do it. And they like it. And people see in me what they want to see. So if they want to be mad at me and they are, Republicans and you're like you can make a line between Trump supporter I try to with Republican listeners. Like, look.
Jason Derusha [00:06:37]:
I am open to many Republican ideas. I'm not open to Donald Trump. Like, sorry. He's disqualified himself for me. That is not something I talk about a lot on the show because what's the point Other than making yourself feel, you know, good, I guess. I I I always think of my show as, like, the Thanksgiving table growing up where my uncle was, my uncle was a lawyer. He went to Madison. My grandfather was a hardcore Ronald Reagan Republican.
Jason Derusha [00:07:14]:
And everyone would duke it out, and everyone was welcome to join in. You're sort of expected to join in. And it was fine. Today, we've taken and I get it. Some of the issues we're talking about are very fundamental issues to different people. Right? It's it's a very white male sort of, privileged position to say, like, most of these issues for me are not life and death. But I also think it's not good for political discourse that we've turned everything into life or or death. And I don't I don't know that that what does that get us? Do we have better discussions? Do we have better participation? Do we have better policy because we've turned everything into a fundamental life and death, good or evil question? I I don't see a benefit to it.
Jason Derusha [00:08:06]:
So I try not to do that on my show.
Stephanie [00:08:09]:
I have noticed a change in you from when you first started broadcasting on the station, and I thought this was interesting because as a TV newsperson, you weren't supposed to have a lot of personality. You were supposed to be fairly impartial and just like a blank slate of
Jason Derusha [00:08:27]:
Yeah. The news for you. Star. Right? The news is the star, not me.
Stephanie [00:08:32]:
And I think it took you a little while to find your rhythm of how what to push, what buttons to push, how hard to push. And I'm really, pleasantly surprised and encouraged of the progress that you've made. I think you're just doing great.
Jason Derusha [00:08:48]:
It it's so nice, it's so nice of you to say that. I have had a tremendous coach at the radio station, and the thing I miss most about TV is the team. And I was more I don't know. I coworkers called me the CFO of our morning show. Mhmm. And that stood for chief feelings officer. My job was to sort of keep the trains on the track and make sure everyone felt heard and validated. And I didn't always tell people they were right, but they always were heard.
Jason Derusha [00:09:24]:
And so my job was to lift everybody else up. Well, in radio, it's just it's me and a producer. That's it. And we have a a brand manager who's, like, a program director of WCCO Radio, Brad Lane. And he's been tremendous, you know, and you can talk to any of my managers over the year. I've always have good relationship with managers, but I generally don't like to be told, what to do. Typical, media Broadcaster. Broadcaster.
Jason Derusha [00:09:55]:
Right? But in this case, like, I needed guidance. I needed coaching. I didn't really know how to do this. I I knew how to host, and I knew how to interview, but I didn't really know how to navigate talk radio today, which is different from talk radio 10 years ago. 10 years ago, if you could frame the issue well, people would call in. Today, people react to talk radio sort of like they do a a Facebook status update. They wanna know your take, and then they'll react.
Stephanie [00:10:24]:
Yeah.
Jason Derusha [00:10:25]:
Well, that took me a lot of work because, you know, do people really wanna hear my take? Is my take valid? Do I you know, it's all of those issues. And even as someone who's always had sort of an outsized personality in town, I still had that doubt of, like, do I really do I know what I'm talking about? Why are people really and he the the way Brad phrases it is he's like, what is your show about? What is your show about? And a lot of people ask me that. What is your show about? Which is such a funny question because you and I both, like, grew up listening to talk radio. So, like, I grew up in Chicago. WGN talk radio was part of my life. And then there was an FM talk radio, the loop in Chicago. That was more comedians, a little more edgy, a little younger. And you're like, talk radio is about well, fundamentally, it's about whatever the host wants to talk about.
Jason Derusha [00:11:25]:
So, like, you know, your show that you do, what is your show about? Well, like, the subject matter is food, but, like, it's really about your lens, what you care about. And that seems so egotistical. You're like, oh, it's all about me? Yeah. But it kind of is. Right? That's kinda what it is. So I it took a while for me to learn that. It took honestly, I would say it took a year of doing it 5 days a week until I really got comfortable with it. And I still feel like I'm good, not great.
Jason Derusha [00:12:01]:
Whereas after 25 years of TV, not being arrogant, but I think I was great. Yeah. And so it's kind of fun to not be great at something and learn it. I've enjoyed that.
Stephanie [00:12:14]:
Yeah. And I think it's revealed a lot about you as a person, that is hard to tap into and to be vulnerable and to let people see that side. Particularly, you know, we're performing these shows in a really polarizing time and in a time where people just they go after you. I mean, the amount of personal attack that hosts receive on something as benign as a food show, it's real.
Jason Derusha [00:12:46]:
I'm surprised by it, to be honest. And I'm a very online person, so I shouldn't be surprised by it. But, what's happened, and certainly you get it from people listening to you, but the people who actually listen, get it for the most part. Like, there's some attack, but mostly the listeners I don't know. All during the fair, I have people coming up telling me that, like, they disagree with me politically, but they really like how I do my show, which that's the best. Yeah. But part of the challenge with the digital world and the social media world is, you know, like, I I said this to someone this morning. How much of my energy am I supposed to spend on someone who doesn't listen and never will listen? So all day, every day, both the Republicans and the Democrats run against the media right now.
Jason Derusha [00:13:41]:
The media is the media where's the media? Why doesn't the media say this? Why is this the headline? Why are you framing it this way? Media, media, media, media, which is sort of interesting considering, supposedly, no one cares about the media anymore, and no one lets no one reads, no one subscribes, no one so you're like, but but it's a great boogie, man. Right? Like, if you run against the media, you don't have to confront the fact that your candidate maybe sucks. Right? Like, it's my fault. And that's been a bit of a challenge for me to figure out, like, obviously, I want to convince people to give my show a chance, but I think most of the people who are engaging in sort of a negative way, are not convincible. Right? Like, they're not so how much of my energy am I supposed to spend on that? I don't know. It's a bit of a challenge.
Stephanie [00:14:34]:
Well and I do think they listen. I think that people love to have feelings and emotions. And if they're not sure where to have them or they are in a place in their life where they're lonely or they're othered or whatever the case may be, I think sometimes people tune in just to feel something because they feel empty inside.
Jason Derusha [00:14:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you get I don't know. Like, I always try to remember that there are and the same is true of callers or texters on radio. There are a lot more people who are listening, who are lurkers. Right? Like, that's what we would call them on Facebook or Twitter, the lurkers. So by modeling sort of reasonable, friendly, but passionate discussion, I think there's some benefit to that for the people who are observing and don't wanna jump into the mess.
Stephanie [00:15:34]:
Do you ever think about getting off Twitter? I know a lot of media personalities have.
Jason Derusha [00:15:39]:
I do. I do. But, mostly, I enjoy it. Like, mostly, I get positive interaction out of it. I've started to curate it a little more. Like, I mute a lot of people that you know, if I feel someone getting my blood pressure rising, I'll just mute them. It's okay. Like, they don't need, like, block.
Jason Derusha [00:15:58]:
I don't need to do that. But, like, I and people who I have a policy, if you call me or my family a name, you just get blocked. Like, there's no I don't need that. So I I do think about it. It is one of those things where you're like, the upside of something like Twitter acts. The upside is you get a lot of audience. I have, I don't know, 80,000 followers there. Certainly, most people don't see all of that stuff, and who knows how many are are relevant.
Jason Derusha [00:16:33]:
But, you know, a a normal tweet of mine might get seen might get, you know, 10, 20, 30000. Like, that's pretty good.
Stephanie [00:16:42]:
It's also so immediate when you're on the air. Like Yeah.
Jason Derusha [00:16:45]:
You need. For show, it's amazing. Like, what I I never think about leaving. I think about and I have adjusted what I will post about, just because it's not really fruitful for the most part. And you think, like, is my voice needed on this topic? Not really. Like, so do I need to weigh in on a lot of political type things? Not really. So I I've sort of, cut down on that. But you're right.
Jason Derusha [00:17:15]:
Like, from a listening standpoint, from a breaking news standpoint, it's amazing. It's unparalleled, frankly.
Stephanie [00:17:22]:
Yeah. I would agree with that. You took a weight loss journey, and I think you lost £40 last I checked.
Jason Derusha [00:17:29]:
Yeah.
Stephanie [00:17:30]:
And you've always been someone in the food space. Did that feel conflicting for you to do the weight loss route and at the same time be championing and talking about all the food?
Jason Derusha [00:17:44]:
Yeah. I mean, people ask me all the time. They're like, how do you eat this much? I'm like, well, I'm, you know, I'm sharing. I'm taking bites or whatever. I do think about it. Right? I think the reason that I lost weight was so I could live, not so I could hide. And so I don't really feel conflicted about that. The truth is, though, could I have lost that weight by eating out 4 nights a week? Probably not.
Jason Derusha [00:18:13]:
Yeah. So it is a challenge of eating out. I certainly am a little more careful now in how I order. And the way we used to, you know, some of this, like, COVID has changed it, but a normal night for us back in the pre COVID days would be you go somewhere for drinks, go somewhere else for appetizers, go somewhere else for a main course, and go somewhere else for dessert and drinks. And thinking about that while I was on the weight loss journey, like, I was probably eating 4000 3 or 4000 calories a night just in that. Like, not lunch, not breakfast. And so that's not sustainable. But can I do that occasionally? Sure.
Jason Derusha [00:18:53]:
Yeah. Why not? So I I the biggest thing I was conflicted about is the weight loss journey that I took. You know, I've always been, like, sort of an organic whole foods farm to table type eater. But to lose weight, quickly and sustainably, it's difficult to do it on whole food. It just takes a lot longer. Now I was eating whole foods. It wasn't like a liquid diet or anything. But, like, it is success breeds success.
Jason Derusha [00:19:21]:
And when you start when you lose that £10 in 2 weeks, you're like, oh, I can do this and then do it. Like, for me, I needed that. Other people, you know, maybe you can lose £40 in 2 years and do it by eating more salads and be more careful. But, like, getting the protein you need and the nutrients and all of that, it's it's just difficult if you go on a severe calorie restriction diet. It's difficult.
Stephanie [00:19:45]:
It's interesting too. I think for what we're seeing in the media now, like, everyone not everyone, but a lot of people are on the weight loss drugs and taking the shots. Many people are talking about it, many people aren't. Some are talking privately. And as someone who's a bigger person, like I'm not obese, but I'm a size 12 or 14 usually. I think about like, can I manage my weight with a magic, like, pill and No? Do that? Like, that feels like it could be amazing. And then they're also finding that with the reduced inflammation, people are happier or less depressed Yeah. Or sex.
Stephanie [00:20:27]:
It's like, oh my gosh. Is this the miracle drug? But then at the same time, as people who champion the food space, can you make food the the devil in that situation and still talk about it? It's it's something I both my radio partner and I have talked about a lot.
Jason Derusha [00:20:46]:
It's tricky. Right? Like, I am cheering for small business. I'm cheering for creativity, for innovation. So I'm cheering for that. Food is and I love food. We love, eating out. We love the experience of it. But food is really I mean, food is the vessel for all this other stuff.
Jason Derusha [00:21:13]:
Right? So is it do I love, love, love the particular dish, or do I love the experience? So I think, like, you know, you and your radio partner, Stephanie and I, I think the 3 of us have sort of a similar approach as to what makes restaurants, fun and what makes eating out fun. And it's really it's more the social experience, the room, the way you feel, the people you're with. Like, yes, good food, technique, all of that matters, but the other stuff matters more. And so when I was losing weight, my wife and I, you know, we had to sort of radically reenvision what we're gonna do for fun. So because we knew, like, you know, what would we do on a Saturday if we had a day free? Like, go to a maybe go to a a tap room or maybe go to a bar. It's like we can't do that. So we're like, alright. Let's go for a hike or, you know, you're trying some different stuff.
Jason Derusha [00:22:17]:
It's interesting as you age too. Right? Like, it's I can't eat the way I did 10 years ago.
Stephanie [00:22:23]:
And, also, like, I became recently aware, which why it took so long, I don't know, of, like, that what I view as fun is always food related. It's always my go to thing, and I
Jason Derusha [00:22:36]:
don't Yeah.
Stephanie [00:22:37]:
I don't think about, like, oh, let's go have a bike ride. I think about let's go have a bike ride to this brewery or this orchard or it's like the destination, not the journey.
Jason Derusha [00:22:47]:
We're trying to, like you know, we went to a a show at the Guthrie a couple weeks ago. It's like, oh, and we loved it. And it's like, okay. Let's, like, let's remember to kind of, you know, Yeah. Sprinkle the other stuff into.
Stephanie [00:23:03]:
I want to, just thank you for some of the folks you've had on Derusha Eats. I was, thinking about Manny from Manny's,
Jason Derusha [00:23:11]:
Tortoise. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:23:13]:
25 years, Manny Gonzalez has been over there doing the work, and I was just really taken aback when he said he'd never been on the radio in 25 years. And I thought, well, good for you for having him on, and, wow, why did it take us so long? You just there's so many great voices out there and so much more to our food scene than the typical, you know, James Beard award winning chef. Right?
Jason Derusha [00:23:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. It that was a lesson I learned in my TV years of doing stories on restaurants. The audience resonated with, like, the neighborhood pizza place a lot more than the James Beard award type place. And, like, I don't know. I think about that often. Right? Like, people get more jazzed about mama's pizza in Saint Paul or Latah Latifs in
Stephanie [00:24:06]:
Plymouth. Yeah.
Jason Derusha [00:24:07]:
Where they've got, like, the diamond it's sort of the diamond shaped cut. You know, people resonate with that more, and that makes sense. Right? Like, it's the reason The Cheesecake Factory back in the day was, like, the biggest restaurant opening of that year. Yeah. Because, people don't like feeling dumb. They don't like looking at menus where they don't know what the ingredients are, or they don't know how to say it. And neighborhood pizza places are awesome. Right? Like, they support the softball teams, and they support the youth, soccer teams.
Jason Derusha [00:24:44]:
And so I've always tried to give those guys a voice. It is it is a balance of, like, how do you keep it? So what really helps me is my producer, Dan Cook, does not care about restaurants at all. He doesn't care. He is mister meat and potatoes. He doesn't know anything that I'm talking about. And so when I do an interview where he's like, oh, that was really interesting. Like, he loved the Manny Gonzalez in the interview. And you're like, okay.
Jason Derusha [00:25:13]:
That's really what I'm trying to do. So I I do think about that a lot. Like, I definitely light up with the classics more. So, like, the Bilkoslag from Jack's
Stephanie [00:25:26]:
Game Fair. That was a great interview too.
Jason Derusha [00:25:28]:
Like, the though those ones, always sorta get me going. So it's something that I think about. Like, this month, we're gonna have, Murray's, Tim Murray, and we're gonna have JD Hoyt's. But we're also gonna have a case, Johnson who just, has this, you know, chicken tenders type Yep. Restaurant. So, like, I try to think, you know, can we have more women on? Can we have more people of color on? Do we have the classics who don't get the love on? Like, I'm always trying to think of that stuff.
Stephanie [00:26:08]:
You do
Jason Derusha [00:26:08]:
have the new new the new new new, I always get nervous about on broadcast. Because if you're reading my stuff in Minnesota Monthly, you opt in. If you're going to a new place, you know. Like, Jason may love it, and you may go on another day, and it might be a train wreck. And that's sort of buyer beware. If you go to a place in the 1st 2 or 3 months, that's gonna happen.
Stephanie [00:26:32]:
Do you feel like a food reviewer? I mean, that's your title technically in Minnesota Monthly, but I feel like you carved out this other seat for yourself.
Jason Derusha [00:26:41]:
Yeah. I always feel a little awkward considering myself a critic. I mean, it it's the easiest way for people to understand it, but I'm not doing as much reviewing anymore. And part of the problem with reviewing versus recommending is that to really critically review a place, you need to go 3 times.
Stephanie [00:27:05]:
Absolutely.
Jason Derusha [00:27:06]:
You just do. It's not fair to roast somebody. And I can write a review and do the old, you know, crap sandwich with, like, this was good. This was good. Oh, this needs a little work. This was good. And I feel okay doing that on one visit, But, you know, mostly people wanna know where to go and what to order. And so, because I don't have the budget to really adequately review, you gotta do what you can do.
Jason Derusha [00:27:38]:
So,
Stephanie [00:27:38]:
like, I company is gonna send you 10 times like they used to send Ruth Reichl at the New York Times.
Jason Derusha [00:27:44]:
So I just try to carve out my area. I think people know that I'm honest. I'm not gonna deceive them. I'm not gonna puff up a place that's not good. But if I never talk about a place, you probably know why.
Stephanie [00:27:58]:
Yeah.
Jason Derusha [00:27:58]:
Like, I don't like it.
Stephanie [00:28:00]:
Yeah. And it doesn't help sometimes, I think, either to pounce on a place once everyone's identified that it's not great.
Jason Derusha [00:28:07]:
No. And there is I I think there is a space for, like, informed recommendation. Right? We have, like, the TikTok, Instagram world of, like, this is open. Whoo. Like, you have that. And that has its usefulness too. Like, people like to chase that. That's fun.
Jason Derusha [00:28:23]:
But I try to be like, alright. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you an informed recommendation. It's not quite a review. I don't know. I I I try I try. It's a it's a tricky thing. Right? Like, what does the audience want? Do people people always say they want critical reviews, but, like, just not about their favorite place. Yeah.
Jason Derusha [00:28:46]:
Exactly. People really want critical reviews. I I don't know.
Stephanie [00:28:51]:
I don't know. What's next for you? You've launched your substack. I've got 10 minutes left. And in that 10 minutes, I wanna know what's next and also the most embarrassing thing in your refrigerator.
Jason Derusha [00:29:07]:
So what's next? For for me, I am hoping to launch, like, a more unified brand. I have, like, all of these different things under my umbrella, and none of it looks the same. None of it has the same logo. Not you're like, what are we doing here? So I I like to unify things a little bit. You know, the Substack, you sort of inspired me to switch over to Substack from doing, like, a Mailchimp email I was doing. I've loved that outlet. So that's been really fun. You know, trying to figure out, like, Minnesota Monthly pays me to write.
Jason Derusha [00:29:47]:
Like, I gotta write for them. Like, I'm not saving it all for the newsletter. Like Yep. How do you make that work is something that I'm sort of working on. But I would like the other thing that I would like to launch, and I do release my restaurant interviews in podcast form. And over the next year, I I sort of wanna figure out, like, what is the right way to do that. Should I be you know, I experimented. I did an interview with Sameh Wadi where we taped it ahead of time instead of doing it live on the radio.
Jason Derusha [00:30:18]:
And so I spent 45 minutes with him asking questions, and so it was a longer podcast, and I think people like that. So trying to figure out, like, how do I do the radio? You know, I'm doing 3 hours of radio a day, so it doesn't leave as much free time as, you know, my family jokes that I work 3 hours, but you're like, well
Stephanie [00:30:38]:
An hour and a half of prep for every hour on the radio.
Jason Derusha [00:30:41]:
It takes a little bit of reading and planning and all of that. So that's you know, I I the the concrete plan is relaunch jason to russia.com. There's that website was built, like, 8 years ago. I'd like to freshen that up. So brand refresh, website refresh, those are the big plans for the next year. Try not to get fired during this political stretch. Don't get canceled. All of
Stephanie [00:31:10]:
those things. What's embarrassing that's in your fridge?
Jason Derusha [00:31:13]:
Oh, what is embarrassing that's in my fridge? There's currently a bottle of Kirkland, sparkling rose in my fridge.
Stephanie [00:31:23]:
But it is kinda good.
Jason Derusha [00:31:25]:
It's kinda good. I, you know, I mean, that's a little embarrassing.
Stephanie [00:31:30]:
That's funny.
Jason Derusha [00:31:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's probably that's probably the most embarrassing thing in there right now.
Stephanie [00:31:37]:
You know what else is kinda interesting about you? And I work for freelance myself. Mhmm. So I'm 1099 everywhere I work. And I see myself as my own company, my own brand. I also see you as seeing yourself like that, and that's interesting to me and a shift for you.
Jason Derusha [00:31:56]:
Yeah. At some point, that might be where it goes. I will say, like, as someone sort of new to the side hustle world, it's exhausting.
Stephanie [00:32:07]:
Yeah. It's really hard.
Jason Derusha [00:32:08]:
Like, you're pitching yourself all the time.
Stephanie [00:32:11]:
It's very hard.
Jason Derusha [00:32:13]:
And, you know, trying there's something to be said for, like, every 2 weeks. Like, the check comes. Yeah. The regular job. It's kinda nice. So when you're, you know, when you're pitching yourself a lot for a $1,000 here or for a trade out, like, oh,
Stephanie [00:32:36]:
okay. Free meal.
Jason Derusha [00:32:39]:
Yeah. You you know, I don't do a ton of that, but, like, it it does get exhausting. And then you have different you have different clients who have different needs. So, like, you know, one of the things I'm struggling with right now is there's a there's a restaurant owner who owns, I don't know, 5 or 6 different local restaurants. I love these restaurants. So he asked me about, like, doing influencing for him, doing a little digital campaign. And the trick is, like, at what point, like, if I'm getting if I'm getting paid, like, how many restaurants is that okay for? Like, do people start doubting my reviews? Does that or my recommendations? Like, how do you keep integrity in what you're doing, but also, like, keep the lights on so you can
Stephanie [00:33:30]:
do it? It's a it's a line, and I don't have the answer because I've struggled with it myself. All I can say is if you are approaching it with integrity, but I don't know. When someone sells an endorsement for you on the radio station, they're making $80 and, you know, you're making $5,000. Right. So
Jason Derusha [00:33:52]:
Right.
Stephanie [00:33:52]:
I I did an endorsement for Certix, which I know you've done. And people still I mean, people will associate me with Certix till the end of time.
Jason Derusha [00:34:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's
Stephanie [00:34:03]:
great because I love the family and I that's why I did the project that I did because I really enjoy them as people and stewards of northeast. But, yeah, it does close doors, and, you know, was it worth it? I don't know.
Jason Derusha [00:34:16]:
Right. Yeah. It's a little tricky just trying to figure that out. And, like, if I were not writing for Minnesota Monthly, then I wouldn't even worry about it.
Stephanie [00:34:27]:
Yeah. It would be different for sure.
Jason Derusha [00:34:28]:
But, like, in the Minnesota Monthly thing is, opens a lot of doors for me. Right? When you say you're the food writer, I mean, how many food writers are there for regional magazines across the country? 15? 10? I know. There are not that many. So, like, so that's sort of a job where it's like it pays for itself. Like, who cares that I don't get paid that much for it? It opens so many doors. So but then if you're not gonna cash in on those doors opening, what are you doing? So, like, trying to figure it all of that stuff is I spend a lot of time thinking about that.
Stephanie [00:35:06]:
Me too.
Jason Derusha [00:35:07]:
Yeah. Just trying to keep integrity and also, like, make things worth your time.
Stephanie [00:35:14]:
And with that, as my free Zoom subscription is winding down
Jason Derusha [00:35:19]:
That's right. That's all that's all we're doing. How many free like, I edit my video on a free video editing? Yes, sir. We
Stephanie [00:35:28]:
have 3 minutes left to wrap it up.
Jason Derusha [00:35:32]:
That's right. I invoice using Google Sheets.
Stephanie [00:35:35]:
Yep. No. I I know.
Jason Derusha [00:35:36]:
My accounting is like my emails and try you know, it's all a train wreck.
Stephanie [00:35:41]:
Yes. It is. But it's been super fun to spend time with you and just to I wanted to just tell you you're doing a good job and Thank you. Tell you I've noticed that there's growth happening and that I think what you did took a lot of courage, and I've been a a fan. And I it's
Jason Derusha [00:35:58]:
fun listening. That means a lot, especially coming from you because I just respect kind of the way you have conducted your business and figured all of this out. And, I think both of us sort of follow what we think is fun and then hope the business type things sort of follow. Yeah. It's worked out okay, I think, for both of us.
Stephanie [00:36:19]:
So far so good.
Jason Derusha [00:36:20]:
We'll knock
Stephanie [00:36:21]:
on some wood that we're not both fired in
Jason Derusha [00:36:23]:
the middle of the day. That's right.
Stephanie [00:36:25]:
Alright. Thanks, Caitlin.
Jason Derusha [00:36:27]:
Thanks, Stephanie.
Stephanie [00:36:28]:
Okay. Where do you want people to follow you?
Jason Derusha [00:36:32]:
Instagram is good. Instagram or Facebook is probably the best way. Right? Like, they can get my my radio show podcast is everywhere, so we upload every segment and all of that. So those are probably the best.
Stephanie [00:36:46]:
Alright. Well, thanks for being on, and I really appreciate your time.
Jason Derusha [00:36:49]:
Thanks, Steph.
Stephanie [00:36:50]:
Okay. Bye bye.
Jason Derusha [00:36:51]:
See you.

This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe
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Kelly Jaggers
6 Sep· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
In this episode of "Dishing with Stephanie's Dish," we had a delightful conversation with the talented cookbook author Kelly Jaggers. She shared her insights about her latest creation, "The Ultimate Meal Planning for One Cookbook," and her journey as a cookbook writer.
Kelly's passion for creating recipes perfectly scaled for one person's enjoyment shines through her work, making her books a treasure trove for solo diners. She has 4 books currently in the “Cooking For One” series including:
Join us as we delve into Kelly's culinary background, her inspirations for writing cookbooks, and her love for food, hockey, and dogs. So, grab a cup of your favorite beverage and join us in this engaging conversation with Kelly Jaggers.
COOKBOOK GIVEAWAY
I have two copies of this cookbook to give away. To be included in the giveaway, send me any comment here, and I will contact the winner via email and mail the book to your home.
FINAL TRANSCRIPT:
Stephanie [00:00:15]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to cookbook authors and people generally obsessed with food. Today, we have a cookbook author, and it is Kelly Jaggers. Welcome to the program, Kelly.
Kelly Jaggers [00:00:27]:
Thank you so much for having me.
Stephanie [00:00:29]:
Yes. So you wrote something that I find really fascinating. It's called the ultimate meal planning for 1 cookbook, and you previously wrote the ultimate Mediterranean diet cookbook for 1. Mhmm. What got you into, like, cooking for 1 person? Because I did notice that you're now married.
Kelly Jaggers [00:00:49]:
I am married. So just because I'm married doesn't mean I don't understand the, ins and outs of what people who are solo might need. Yes. I do spend a few days a week at home by myself. My husband works. Sometimes he travels. And on those dates, I'm just cooking for me. I don't have kiddos, just me and the dogs.
Kelly Jaggers [00:01:06]:
So it was important for me to learn how to scale down recipes so that I could enjoy them just for myself without having excessive leftovers. And that just really parlays well into the book series that I've been working on, because it's kind of a I wouldn't say so niche, but kind of overlooked audience for cookbooks.
Stephanie [00:01:23]:
For sure.
Kelly Jaggers [00:01:23]:
Thinking right. They're thinking about families, married couples, people with loads of kids or planning for parties. But what about those people who are, for whatever reason, cooking for themselves because maybe they're single or they have a spouse or an SO or a partner who works multiple days away from home or maybe they're on a special diet from an SO. And so, like, they're planning just for themselves.
Stephanie [00:01:44]:
Yeah.
Kelly Jaggers [00:01:44]:
So lots of reasons why you might just be cooking for yourself. So it's not just because you're a single, although you probably maybe you are. That's also fine. Like, I don't judge. Whatever. So, yeah, it was important for me to kind of, kinda fill that gap and to help, to fill out that market a little bit.
Stephanie [00:01:58]:
I feel uniquely, interested in this topic after just having spent 2 weeks with my mother-in-law who's 92, and she still does all her own cooking. And every time I was gonna make something, she acted sort of horrified at my portions because she's used to cooking for just herself. So she's always really keenly in tune to not cooking too much so she doesn't have to eat the same thing for 5 days.
Kelly Jaggers [00:02:25]:
Exactly.
Stephanie [00:02:26]:
Yep. Because leftovers are a problem when you're when you're single.
Kelly Jaggers [00:02:30]:
I mean, leftovers are great for 1, maybe 2 meals, but, like, five meals of lasagna in a week or 5 meals of, whatever it is that you've made. Yeah. It can get a little get a little depressing. Right? And it makes you not wanna cook, make you wanna reach for a takeout menu, and that's so expensive. So you're wasting food, spending more on maybe delivery or takeout than maybe you've planned for in the budget. So why not think about meals that are scaled for 1 to 2 portions? I think that makes a lot of sense for people who are thinking about their budget, thinking about ways to reduce food waste, which is so important too. Right? Food is so expensive these days. If you go to the grocery store, it's so high.
Kelly Jaggers [00:03:09]:
I don't wanna be throwing that food away. I'm gonna eat what I bought. So I wanna plan for meals that I can make, just in the portions that I want.
Stephanie [00:03:16]:
Your book is beautifully done in lots of ways. So Thank you. First of all, the design of it
Kelly Jaggers [00:03:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. I love They did such a wonderful job with it. It's so, so pretty.
Stephanie [00:03:29]:
It's pretty. It's simple. It's easy to follow. You have pictures for most of the recipes. You also have, like, calorie counts, fat, protein, carbohydrates. So if someone is watching their calories, that's really helpful.
Kelly Jaggers [00:03:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:03:45]:
We've got it also broken down into proteins, which we're kind of obsessing these days about if we're getting enough protein. So I loved that. Yeah. I also really liked the size of it and the paper, and it just feels like a manual I can pop in my purse and, you've got shopping lists, meal plans. It's really quite well done.
Kelly Jaggers [00:04:08]:
Thank you. Thank you. It's, it was a labor of love. I think that the most challenging part of the book was the meal plans is coming up with the 8 weeks of meal plans and the shopping lists because I wanted to make sure that the meal plans included a variety of recipes from the book. Nothing was too, like, Mexican every single night or, like, chicken every single night. I wanted to make sure there's plenty of variety. And to give an example for people who maybe have never sat down to meal plan before to say, like, this is what you can do. These are the kinds of recipes you can plan for.
Kelly Jaggers [00:04:37]:
This is an idea of what your week might look like, but feel free to plug and play. Right? Like, oh, I'm not such a big fan of this recipe. I'd rather have this. And you can just plug it into the meal plan and make it easy for you to customize and individualize so that as you start this meal planning journey, you have these great tools and you can just kind of utilize the week over week for yourself.
Stephanie [00:04:58]:
And the prep list too were really thoughtful. I think when you're cooking for because I do cook from 1 a lot, actually, 2. Mhmm. In my food life, because I'm doing recipe development, I'm, you know, usually making recipes for 2 to 6. Yep. But my husband in the summertime lives at our cabin for the most part. So I am cooking for myself a lot. And if I'm not eating recipe leftovers, which usually I end up giving to my neighbors because I don't really wanna eat what I just cooked.
Kelly Jaggers [00:05:29]:
I don't know why. Completely understand. I'm the same way.
Stephanie [00:05:31]:
I'm a
Kelly Jaggers [00:05:31]:
first creature. It. Cooked it all day. I don't wanna consume it. I get it.
Stephanie [00:05:35]:
I photographed it. I'm just saying
Kelly Jaggers [00:05:37]:
with it all day, and I just don't want it. Yes.
Stephanie [00:05:39]:
So I'm, like, always running around the neighborhood, like, who needs food?
Kelly Jaggers [00:05:43]:
Who's hungry? I have I have meals. Please take these foods from me.
Stephanie [00:05:46]:
Yes. So, like, then I'm just myself and I'm like, oh, well, okay. What am I gonna just make for myself? And I always end up making too much. So then I've got, like, food and I again, I'm very conscientious about food waste too. But so I really enjoyed, the way that the book was put together. How did you get into cookbook writing? Were you a blogger first?
Kelly Jaggers [00:06:08]:
I was. I was. So, I had a blog. It still exists out there. I'm not updating it, obviously, but it was evil shenanigans.com. The shenanigans are evil because they're good for your taste buds, but maybe not so great for your waistline. And I started working on that blog when I went to culinary school. I was going to culinary school to become a baker.
Kelly Jaggers [00:06:26]:
I wanted to open my own bakery. I had these really grand plans. And I walked into bakery pastry management, one of my last classes for my degree, and the teacher came in and she's I'll never forget. She said, first thing she said before she even introduced herself was 90% of bakeries fail in the 1st year. It's about a $1,000,000 total investment. And I was like, and with that, I'm out. I am risk averse. I I know how hard it is to earn my money, and I was not interested in that.
Kelly Jaggers [00:06:50]:
So now what do I do with this education I've acquired? I don't wanna work in restaurants. I didn't wanna have that kind of, like, you know, chef y lifestyle that that's not me.
Stephanie [00:06:59]:
The beer doesn't appeal to you?
Kelly Jaggers [00:07:01]:
No. No. I am a gentle soul. Soul. I don't think I could handle it. I would cry every day.
Stephanie [00:07:06]:
Yep.
Kelly Jaggers [00:07:07]:
So I I started writing a blog during my culinary school journey, and so I just kinda focused in on that for a while, trying to figure out, like, what am I gonna do? And about a year into working on the blog, I received an email from a publisher asking if I was interested in working on a book on pies. And I looked around and said, are you sure you mean me? And they did. And so I wrote my very first book, which was the Everything Pie Cookbook. And since
Stephanie [00:07:29]:
then had that. Yeah.
Kelly Jaggers [00:07:31]:
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so since then, I've written, a number of books for my publisher. I write roughly 1 a year right now. So I do the books and also the photography as well. So, on top of the books I write and shoot, I also shoot photography for other people's cook books.
Kelly Jaggers [00:07:46]:
So, so it's been a lot of fun. Yeah. Just like a nice little transition from, like, culinary school, I wanna be a baker, to now I write cookbooks and study food for a living, and it's the best, and I love it.
Stephanie [00:07:57]:
And you're not doing or you're not updating your blog at the same time, so your whole focus is really on your cookbook each year.
Kelly Jaggers [00:08:04]:
Yeah. Yeah. It it it's a labor of love. It's one of those things that, you've, I think, written a cookbook, so I think you understand. And developing recipes too. It's one of those things where I want them to be right. I want the recipes to work. So I do spend a lot of time working on the recipes, thinking about ingredients, studying what's trending, but also thinking about what will still taste good in 10 years.
Kelly Jaggers [00:08:25]:
So I want things to be up to date and current, but I don't want them to be so up to date that people are like, oh, we're so over this. You know?
Stephanie [00:08:31]:
Yeah.
Kelly Jaggers [00:08:32]:
So I spend a lot of time thinking about those things. So, yeah, that's that's what I do. I do photography. I do the cookbook writing, and then I also do, a little bit of light personal chef and catering work in town.
Stephanie [00:08:42]:
So Where do you live?
Kelly Jaggers [00:08:44]:
I live in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex.
Stephanie [00:08:46]:
Oh, nice. I just, I, I was just doing a cooking demonstration yesterday from 1 from my cookbook, and there's an recipe in there for king ranch chicken that was my mother in law's from Houston. And, you know, I know in Texas, like, everybody knows king ranch chicken is like our wild rice soup. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Was just so impressed with this King Ranch chicken. And I was like, people, I did not invent this thing.
Stephanie [00:09:12]:
You know? This has been being made in Texas for some time.
Kelly Jaggers [00:09:15]:
It's called the king ranch. Yeah. It's from the king ranch, and it's, yeah. It's very, very famous in the state. We I think everyone grew up eating it that I knew.
Stephanie [00:09:24]:
Yeah. And it is delicious. So you can Very
Kelly Jaggers [00:09:26]:
tasty. Yeah. No. It's it's for that.
Stephanie [00:09:28]:
It's one
Kelly Jaggers [00:09:28]:
of those things you kinda can't go wrong with.
Stephanie [00:09:30]:
So And, you know, they were asking me all these intimate questions about, like, the tortillas and what kind and how long they last. And I just I thought, oh, this is when you write a cookbook, you're writing it in your own vacuum, essentially. And these are the kinds of questions that cooks have that I wasn't thinking about when I wrote the recipe. Yeah. So I'll get better on the second book about thinking about some of that. But I think with each book, you get better. Don't you think?
Kelly Jaggers [00:09:55]:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's, the first book's a challenge. You you kinda don't I hate to say you don't know what you're doing, but, like, you write recipes. You know how to develop recipes. But have you written a book before? No. No. I ended up writing my first book over the course of basically a week.
Kelly Jaggers [00:10:11]:
We had a snowstorm in Dallas that year, and it basically shut the entire city down. All the roads were frozen over. We were actually hosting the Super Bowl that year too, so it was kind of like this thing where I was watching the news where the they were like, can we even have it? It's all snowed in, and I'm like, it's
Stephanie [00:10:26]:
a quarter
Kelly Jaggers [00:10:27]:
of an inch of snow. It's so small. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:10:29]:
And we were laughing at all of you. Just like, oh my god. What is going on in Dallas?
Kelly Jaggers [00:10:34]:
Well, we don't have the infrastructure in place, and, also, we can't we drive aggressively. Anyway, so I ended up getting stuck at home for week. And I'm like, well, I guess I'll just work on the book. And so I did writing and testing and writing and testing that whole week. And by the time the week was over, I had about a 110 pies in my kitchen and in the fridge and freezer, and the majority of the book done. Like, it just was one of those things. And I was like, oh, how how will I ever write another one of these? This has been such a ordeal. But as you get into it and you learn, like, your own process, you it gets easier.
Kelly Jaggers [00:11:07]:
And you also think about those questions. Like, what do I do with the excess ingredients of this? And what will they do with these leftovers? And could they turn them into something else? And what suggestions do I have for substitutions, maybe for our vegan friends or for people who don't eat these kinds of proteins? Maybe you don't eat shellfish or pork. Like, you know, you think about those things and, like, little tidbits you can include in your recipes to make it better for your audience.
Stephanie [00:11:31]:
Yeah. And you have a lot of that in the book too. Like, in at each page, there if you have some suggestions, like, here's some variations on ways to use grits. Yep. Here is a tartar sauce that goes with this crispy fried shrimp, like Yep. How to freeze seafood. Like, I like that. I thought it was really thoughtful too.
Kelly Jaggers [00:11:50]:
Thank you.
Stephanie [00:11:51]:
What are some of your favorite cookbooks that you find yourself getting inspiration from recently?
Kelly Jaggers [00:11:58]:
Basically, anything from Nigella Lawson. She is the domestic goddess and basically my favorite food person. I adore Nigella Lawson. I love any of the books that deal with, like, specialty one topic cooking. So I love to read books on, like specifically books on, like, vegan cooking or, like, how to cook with chickpeas or, like, specific culinary areas, like, say, books, like, on Israeli cooking or Russian cooking or, German cooking. I love to learn about different food ways. So, I spent a lot of time studying Asian food culture, and now I'm kind of getting invested in more of, like, my own background. So learning about Germanic, Austrian, a little bit of Northern Italian foodways.
Kelly Jaggers [00:12:43]:
And then, of course, I love reading cookbooks from my home state of Texas. So I have a number of cookbooks from people who are in the state who are just masters of their crafts. So books on barbecue, books on southern comfort food, books on Tex Mex.
Stephanie [00:12:58]:
Yeah.
Kelly Jaggers [00:12:58]:
And then even drilling down books on Austin cuisine, on Dallas cuisine. Like, these books are so interesting to me. So I love to I read them like textbooks. Like, I love to just study them. Right? I could just sit there and read a cookbook like most people read a novel. So yeah.
Stephanie [00:13:14]:
Same. I just I don't know why I'm even telling you this, but it's kind of a cute story. I was traveling, and a woman contacted me, and she was cleaning out her mom's house. And we do a cookbook swap every year, with my radio show. And she said, I've got all these books, and I know you have the swap. She said, can I bring them to you? I said, yeah. You can bring them to me. Here's my garage code.
Stephanie [00:13:32]:
Just put them in my garage. And she was like, wait. You're just gonna give me a garage code? I'm like, yeah. Just put the books in there. She goes, I can't believe you're just all she goes, can I do anything else while I'm at your house? Can I bring in the mail? I'm like, sure if you want to. So I've got home from the cabin and the books are in the garage. And I started looking at them and they were real, like, treasures. Like, a lot of old Lutheran church cookbooks.
Stephanie [00:13:57]:
And there was one cookbook that was Minneapolis Restaurants that I only knew of 3 of the restaurants in the book. So it's gotta be, you know, 75 years old. Yeah. And it was just full of treasures and her notes, and there was a box, a wooden box that has actual recipes written in it by hand.
Kelly Jaggers [00:14:17]:
Oh my gosh.
Stephanie [00:14:18]:
And so I'm just like and there's 3 boxes of this person's life, you know? And I just I feel like so honored that this woman gave me the boxes of the books, and I've been kinda paging through them at night, like, reading the recipes and thinking, okay. This has olio and shortening. Can I find a way to do something different with it? And how does that work? But, yeah, I get jazzed by the same things.
Kelly Jaggers [00:14:43]:
I have my old, I don't wanna date myself too hard, but I did grow I did grow in in the elementary school in the eighties. And, I had a cookbook that our PTA put together for our elementary school, and I still have a copy of that, like, construction paper bound
Stephanie [00:14:59]:
Yes.
Kelly Jaggers [00:14:59]:
Spiral bound cookbook from the elementary school, and the kids all submitted recipes. And most of them, the parents, obviously,
Stephanie [00:15:07]:
you
Kelly Jaggers [00:15:07]:
know, helped. But, occasionally, it was a kid who, like, made up a recipe for the cookbook. And I loved to read through the book, and just kind of, like, remember, like, all my friends and the teachers and, like, you you know, all that stuff. It's just it's such a treasure. Like, no one else appreciates it than me, but I love it. It's it's to me, it's priceless.
Stephanie [00:15:23]:
When you what one of the things I liked about this book too is that you have a lot of baking recipes. People don't think about baking for 1, and you I'm just looking. You have a whole cook book about baking for 1.
Kelly Jaggers [00:15:34]:
I do. I do. Yeah. My first book that I did in the series was the baking for 1 cookbook. I did go to culinary school for pastry. So my my background is, well, my education is in pastry. That's not to say that I'm not educated on other forms of cooking. I did take a bunch of extra extracurricular cooking classes for, like, American cooking, French cuisine.
Kelly Jaggers [00:15:52]:
I learned how to make the omelette, the whole nine. But, yeah, I I love baking. Baking is my passion. And so when they, were talking about, like, what books are you interested in? I said, I'd love to do some more baking books. And, like, what about baking for 1? And I'm like, I'm your girl. So
Stephanie [00:16:06]:
I mean, that's a cake for 1, creme brulee for for 1. These are not easy things to make. I love it.
Kelly Jaggers [00:16:11]:
Yeah. Scaling them down was a challenge, especially for things, you would think you just cut especially, like, things like cookies and cakes. Oh, you just cut it down by, like, a quarter. You don't. You really have to think about your ratios of fat, how the leavening is gonna work with these ingredients. Do I need to add less liquid, more liquid? It's it's a little bit challenging to scale down baking recipes. So that was a fun one to work on just from, like, my nerdy food science brain that, like, I really enjoyed sitting down and working on that book. That was a good
Stephanie [00:16:40]:
Yeah. The desserts look exceptional. Also, like beef short rib pot roast for 1. Great. I mean, everybody loves that recipe, but it's makes a huge quantity.
Kelly Jaggers [00:16:51]:
It does. And short ribs are perfectly portioned. Right? Like, you think of a short rib, generally, the kind you get in the grocery store have the bone on and a big chunk of meat on top, that's that's already portioned for 1 person. So that's a little bit of work, and then the extras can be wrapped up, stuck in the freezer, and you can braise them another day or make more pot roast or whatever you wanna do.
Stephanie [00:17:09]:
And, lobster mac and cheese for 1. I mean, Paul Lee's.
Kelly Jaggers [00:17:14]:
Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, if you're gonna have mac and cheese, why not have some too? Right?
Stephanie [00:17:19]:
Like Like, you're only if you just make it for 1, here's you know, because I'm always obsessed with how much I'm eating. Like, I can't overeat it. Right? I can't eat half the pan because I've only made the portion for 1, so I like that too.
Kelly Jaggers [00:17:32]:
But, like, you get the satisfaction of eating the whole pan. Yes. It's a shortcut. It is a shortcut. It's a little brain hack too. Like, I get to eat the whole thing, and then you eat the whole thing.
Stephanie [00:17:44]:
I love Yes. All by myself. Okay. Do you do social media?
Kelly Jaggers [00:17:48]:
I do. I do. You can find me on Facebook, evil shenanigans. I'm on x. That would be Kelly Jaggers. Instagram, Kelly Jaggers. On, threads, Kelly Jaggers. So you can find me on on all the major socials.
Kelly Jaggers [00:18:03]:
I I don't TikTok. I I'm on there, but I don't actually do anything on TikTok. So, you you know, it's not not for me, but that's okay. Not everything.
Stephanie [00:18:10]:
It, but it's it's I don't know. It's it's like I have a love hate relationship with it. When you are
Kelly Jaggers [00:18:15]:
I just doom scroll through to to TikTok all the time.
Stephanie [00:18:20]:
Yes. Absolutely. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. Hold on one second.
Stephanie [00:18:24]:
Mhmm. My dog is barking. So I'm just gonna pause one second. Alright. So when you open your, let's say, Instagram Mhmm. And a reel pops up from someone, who do you love to follow and love to, like, watch their stuff?
Kelly Jaggers [00:18:39]:
So I follow such a wide variety of people. My Instagram is is strictly curated to be food, hockey, and dogs, like my three favorite things in life.
Stephanie [00:18:49]:
Are you a hockey person? That's so funny because my social media state.
Kelly Jaggers [00:18:53]:
I I'm a huge hockey fan of the Dallas Stars. I also like the Calgary Flames. I have lots of lots of teams that I like to follow, but I'm a diehard Stars fan. So it was
Stephanie [00:19:02]:
I gotta be honest. Every time I hear someone say the Dallas Stars, it it still have, like, a pain in my heart because they were the Minnesota North Stars.
Kelly Jaggers [00:19:12]:
North Stars. That's right.
Stephanie [00:19:13]:
That's right. Still are, like I don't know. Just in my heart and in my, like, growing up childhood, and I don't know. I'm like, Mike Madonna and just I know. I know. They all come back here too.
Kelly Jaggers [00:19:27]:
I know. Well, Mike Madonna works for the wild now, so that's exciting for him. But we got it we have a statue down here
Stephanie [00:19:33]:
in Dallas anyway. He was my neighbor.
Kelly Jaggers [00:19:35]:
Was he really?
Stephanie [00:19:36]:
Yeah. He did live in Minnesota. But Mhmm. When he came here as a kid in I think it was probably high school or junior high to play Mhmm. He stayed at our neighbor's house. They, like, kind of helped raise him and knew his parents and actually dated my sister for a hot minute. So Oh, wow. Big fans of his and his wife, and they've done so much good work too.
Stephanie [00:19:56]:
That's crazy. Well, yeah, he's
Kelly Jaggers [00:19:58]:
he's he's he's kind of a great guy. We we like him down here too
Stephanie [00:20:02]:
a lot. So Oh, that's so funny.
Kelly Jaggers [00:20:04]:
Okay. So, yeah, so reels that I'd wanna see. So anything from, some of my favorite fiction authors. So like Deanna Rayburn, Tess Gerritsen, I love to see reels from the authors I love. I love to see reels from, like, New York Times Food, from Tasty. I love to watch those little quick videos where they put things together. I know it's unrealistic on the timing, and it makes it look a little easier than it is. Yeah.
Kelly Jaggers [00:20:27]:
Hands and pans. But I'm kind of addicted to watching them. They're so satisfying to watch it, like ingredients to completion. Obviously, I we talked about Nigella Lawson before. I will talk about Nigella Lawson until the end of time. I adore Nigella Lawson. But then, like, all of my friends, you know, people that I've known for years who work in food, I'm just thrilled to see what they're doing and the content they're producing. So bake at 360, my friend, Bridget, or 3 bake at 350.
Kelly Jaggers [00:20:53]:
I'm sorry. Bridget, she's one of my favorite, like, dessert bloggers. She makes the most beautiful cookies. And so, like, she'll post reels about, like, you know, dessert. She's making cookies. She's decorating. I love to see those kinds of things. Yes.
Kelly Jaggers [00:21:06]:
So, yeah, like, it it's just basically, like, all of my friends and people who work in food. And then, of course, dogs. We rate dogs is another one. Like, if if there's a cute puppy to be seen, I want to see the puppy. So Yeah.
Stephanie [00:21:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. I've sort of become obsessed with animals eating.
Kelly Jaggers [00:21:22]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Stephanie [00:21:23]:
Like Sure. The hamster eating a carrot or Oh.
Kelly Jaggers [00:21:26]:
The little crunch crunch noises. It's just oh my gosh.
Stephanie [00:21:31]:
Love it. Absolutely. It's so cute. Yes. And also there's one where there's, like, a monkey that's feeding a rabbit. And I don't know why, but that's what I've become obsessed with.
Kelly Jaggers [00:21:43]:
Yeah. There's there's one, Instagram account that I like to follow, and it's a person and they have these 2 very wild little beagles And they set the a table up, and they make food for the beagles. And then the beagles jump on the table and eat the food, and he's trying to stop them. And it's it's hilarious. And I know it's all set up, but every time, I I get sucked in and I laugh every single time. So
Stephanie [00:22:04]:
There's also the one that's like that where it's a pit bull that has hands with gloves, and it's made it. Yeah. Like, the food, but it looks like the pit bull's making it, and he has really funny kind of expressions on his face.
Kelly Jaggers [00:22:17]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. And see, that that combines 2 loves, the food and the dogs. So Sure.
Stephanie [00:22:22]:
You know?
Kelly Jaggers [00:22:23]:
Yeah. No. It's Absolutely.
Stephanie [00:22:25]:
The the
Kelly Jaggers [00:22:25]:
the stuff you see on there is is pretty wild. But, yeah, I
Stephanie [00:22:28]:
love fun talking with you.
Kelly Jaggers [00:22:30]:
It's been so nice to talk with you. Thank you for having me.
Stephanie [00:22:32]:
Yeah. It's the ultimate meal planning for one cook book, and your publisher sent me a couple. So I'm gonna do a giveaway with 1 when I put the podcast together. So I'll give, one away to someone, and it's been lovely to see you. When you get your next book going, give me a shout back. I love talking to cookbook authors and hearing about their process. And, again, I really thought your book was super thoughtful. You did a great job.
Kelly Jaggers [00:22:55]:
So glad you liked it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Stephanie [00:22:58]:
I did. Thanks, Kelly. I'll see
Kelly Jaggers [00:22:59]:
you soon. You. Take care. Bye bye.

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John Kanell
23 Aug· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
"Preppy Kitchen Super Easy" is John Kanell’s follow-up to his best-selling cookbook “Preppy Kitchen.” In this episode of “Dishing With Stephanies Dish,” I speak with him about his success, the ease of his recipes, and his favorite tools to use in the kitchen.
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS:
Stephanie [00:00:15]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Dishing with Stephanie's dish podcast. I am here with John Cannell, and he is the author of the Preppy Kitchen cookbook. Now feel like Preppy Kitchen is such a complete statement because it makes me think of all the things about you right off the bat. Congratulations on a great moniker on on a well titled cookbook.
John Kanell [00:00:42]:
No. Thank you. Preppy Kitchen's super easy.
Stephanie [00:00:44]:
Yeah. And, like, do you identify with that just in terms of I mean, I'm looking at you. You're pretty cute. You seem like a preppy person.
John Kanell [00:00:52]:
I suppose I do. But, you know, I used to be a math and science teacher, and I dealt with all these kids. It's kind of a long story, but I dealt with kids who had all this math anxiety and science anxiety too. They thought, like, I am an English person or I'm I love history, but I cannot do it. My brain doesn't work this way. And I was teaching middle schoolers, and they already had the sense of failure ingrained in them, and it was heartbreaking. You know, like, later on in life, when I switched careers and I pivoted over, I saw the same thing for people in the kitchen. They're like, I'm a baker.
John Kanell [00:01:24]:
I cannot cook. Or I am fine on the grill, can't bake anything. Or I just use my credit card and call it a day.
Speaker C [00:01:30]:
No. You can send it
John Kanell [00:01:30]:
with my kids. Like, you can do it. Let's just be prepared. Let's have all the steps laid out and everything else. So it's kind of a play on words. It's about being prepared in the kitchen and having, like, a fun, easy time, not anxiety inducing train wreck where you're, like, halfway through a recipe, like, I don't have this ingredient. Why do I die? You know?
Stephanie [00:01:51]:
Okay. I'm just gonna back up for a second because your aesthetic is really appealing to me in lots of ways. Number 1, just talking to you and the way you have your background set. Awesome. Number 2, the photographs in the book and the photographs on your Instagram and on your sites are also incredibly beautiful. Are you doing all this by yourself? Do you just have this lifestyle persona hidden inside you as a math and science teacher? Come on.
John Kanell [00:02:18]:
Well, I used to do it all by myself back back in the day. But to answer part of your question, like, in pieces, I was an art major. So I wasn't a science teacher, but UCLA and had, like, a fine arts degree. So I was about color theory and putting things together and conceptual art. So my career path has gone all over the place. And now, you know, I find that as business gets busier and my kids get older, I have 2 7 year old boys, they're twins, that whatever someone else can do, they can free me up to, like, spend more time with my family or do things that only I can do, I'll outsource. So the book, book number 1 and book number 2 were both shot by David Meloche, who's a be like, a wonderful photographer. For styling here, like, I do like to collect antique copper and stuff like that.
John Kanell [00:03:09]:
But there's there's a community that comes together.
Stephanie [00:03:11]:
I love antique copper, and I also actually kinda like cooking with it, But cleaning of it and the maintaining of it is, like, a full time job.
John Kanell [00:03:20]:
If like, you have to just understand, like, most antique copper is tinned on the inside, so you might just have to get it retinned every once in a while. Or if you found a piece for, like, $5 at a flea market and it's falling apart, you're gonna say, okay. This is $5 plus the retinning cost, and then it'll be good as new. Because copper you know, old copper's is so heavy. It's gonna conduct the heat really beautifully. And part of being prepared and having the right tools, like, you know, having the nice a nice pot or pan, a nice heavy one that conducts heat conducts heat evenly because you could be following a recipe perfectly to the t. Everything is right. But you had one of those, like like, a sad pot that has paper thin walls that scorches everything.
John Kanell [00:04:02]:
And, you know, your food's kind of it's not ruined, but it's not as good as it could be just because of the tool you had.
Stephanie [00:04:07]:
You're speaking to the choir. I'm at my, summer place, and I'm working on a cookbook. And we got a new stove, like, last year, and we have to buy a our place is super little, so we had to buy this specific size stove. Yeah. And it is just the worst. Like, everything I cook for the cookbook burns. There's so many hot spots in it. It's 75 degrees off.
Stephanie [00:04:32]:
And I'm just like, okay. I don't know if I can cook a cookbook and all the test all these recipes with this horrible stove. No. So, yeah, it's been challenging. Not
John Kanell [00:04:44]:
cool. Not cool at all.
Stephanie [00:04:44]:
When you when you besides your fancy French copper cookware, do you have, like, anything that you recommend for just the basics?
John Kanell [00:04:54]:
You know?
Stephanie [00:04:54]:
I, like, I always recommend All Clad, but that's a kinda easy one. AllCloud.
John Kanell [00:04:58]:
Because it kinda just lasts it's, like, indestructible, lasts forever, and is you know, it's expensive, but I will have the All Clad until I don't know what happens to me.
Stephanie [00:05:08]:
Yeah. Same.
Speaker C [00:05:09]:
You
John Kanell [00:05:09]:
know, you just clean it with some steel wool. If it gets really singed, then it's fine. And then, also, you can find some, like, nice cast iron enameled, like Dutch ovens or something. You can get them secondhand. And if they're in good shape, they'll last forever. So those are, like, investment pieces that really make your time in the kitchen a lot easier.
Stephanie [00:05:29]:
Agreed. Now you're on your second book here. How did you can you give me the transition from math and science teacher to cookbook author? Did you just love cooking?
John Kanell [00:05:41]:
You know, I grew up in the kitchen with my mom. So I always had my mom taught chef, and my mom came from a very small town in Mexico where, like, everything was made fresh every single day. And she came to this country with a love of fresh flavors and ingredients and learning. She never wanted to stop learning. So she explored the world through her kitchen and cookbooks and recipes she clipped out. And, I got to be there on that journey with her and learn a lot from her. So and she was a teacher and retired as well, so I followed her by I just became a teacher. And, when my husband and I were planning a family, because it takes a lot of planning, we were thinking who's gonna be home? And, you know, my job had specific breaks, but you can't show up to school late.
John Kanell [00:06:29]:
So, if, like, you know, if your kid is sick or something happens, he really encouraged me to do a pivot. And he's like, you know, you love teaching, but you really are passionate about food. Like, that's what you kind of light up when you talk about. So he's like, you know, you could. I see people, like, having food blogs, and they can make that a career. So why don't we, like, try that out, and you can work from home and be there more often? So I really credit him for helping me do that because it was really taking a chance. Ended up working out pretty well.
Stephanie [00:06:59]:
And I I mean, congratulations on the books and your story of your mom is pretty inspiring. She sounds like a really neat lady.
Speaker C [00:07:08]:
She really
Stephanie [00:07:08]:
But that is, I think, how a lot of us get started and and the being a cookbook writer is probably more possible now than it was before because of digital creation and social media, to be honest. Yeah. Did you always have a knack for that too? Because many people are great with, like, the food or the recipes, but they're not so great at the digital side. And then there's people that are great at the digital side, but maybe their recipes aren't the best.
John Kanell [00:07:35]:
Part of you thinks I was horrible at everything when I started except, like, I could make a delicious dish. But and I the funny thing is I went to art school. But, like, my photography classes were conceptual art photography classes. And there was no skill. Like, if you wanted to have any skill earned, you'd speak to a technician. And the teacher was just there for the discourse of arts and, like, different references. And, you know, it's a lovely conversation. I enjoyed it, but it gave me zero preparation for shooting food and making it look attractive because it's very difficult.
John Kanell [00:08:07]:
It looked tasty even as in the I mean, it's hard. And if you went scrolled all the way back on my Instagram, you would see some very tragic looking things. And I was, you know, so proud of them at the time.
Stephanie [00:08:21]:
Yeah. And I do think, like, the authenticity of the not so perfect photos too. Certainly not for a book, but we kind of had these whole curated Instagram feeds and lives and I do feel like we're getting away from that a little bit in a way that appeals to me just because it feels more democratic for everyone else.
John Kanell [00:08:43]:
Yeah. I mean, I am a bit of a klutz. I'm gonna acknowledge this. So for me, that part comes out of my YouTube channel where I'm making things and, like, something falls or, like, the I made eclairs 10,000,000 times. It's my favorite thing, but I'm filming it and they fall down because I added, like, a little bit too much egg that day, or the eggs were a little bit on the larger side than I was used to. And I'm I will show that. I don't edit it out. So I'll say, like Same.
John Kanell [00:09:10]:
And but now, let's just come back and say, could you use these? Yes. They're still gonna be delicious. They're not gonna make someone French happy, but you will eat them, or we can remake them. And let me show you the correct amount of egg right now. You know? Or I
Stephanie [00:09:23]:
can Oh, I love that.
John Kanell [00:09:25]:
The fridge.
Stephanie [00:09:26]:
No. I absolutely love that. I have done 2 horrible videos. 1, I cut my head off, but I really liked what I made, so I kept it in. It's the headless shrub making. And then the second, I had a absolute whipped cream failure where it, like, just went like this all over my whole kitchen. Oh, no. And I just left it because I was like, well, I've done that once with soup where I Vitamix it and it was too hot and it blew out all over and now with whipped cream.
Stephanie [00:09:55]:
So I think people actually appreciate that because it makes them feel like they can do it too.
John Kanell [00:09:59]:
Yeah. And also, like, whipped cream is actually quite difficult because in the US, there's all these additives and every every brand is a little bit different. If you go abroad and you make a whipped cream with like a double cream or something else, it takes longer to whip. But when it does, it's a beautiful consistency. And depending on what's been additive or how it's been ultra pasteurized, it could become kind of chunky very easily.
Stephanie [00:10:22]:
Yeah. Okay. So yes. Also, cooking with well and your mom being from Mexico and probably you traveling all over too. Cooking all over in different places is weird. We travel a lot by boat. So cooking in a small space boat kitchen with, you know, butter from all over different goat butters and just like, oh my gosh. This is unique.
Stephanie [00:10:45]:
Let's talk about specific recipes in your book and give me, like, your top five that you feel really attached to.
John Kanell [00:10:53]:
Well okay. So on the back cover, I'm gonna start start sweet. In the book, I have the perfect birthday cake, which is like a beautiful vanilla melt in your mouth cake. But on the back cover is what I actually make for my birthday for myself. And it's a lemony Italian olive oil cake, Two layers with a crunchy sugar topping, and in between and on top, a mountain of mascarpone stabilized whipped cream with lots of fresh berries. It's, like, just perfectly sweet, has that wonderful consistency, and it's a very simple cake to make. So, you know, it's a good example of something delicious, something visually stunning. It doesn't have to be difficult.
John Kanell [00:11:35]:
It doesn't have to be time consuming. And you can really make it your own. One of the side dishes that I am very attached to to is part of my Sunday dinners growing up, and it's a Greek style, spicy tomato orzo. It goes with everything. Like, we would have it with a roast chicken or a big garlic studded leg of lamb in a salad. But you can have it a 1000000 different ways. It's silky. It's perfectly spicy.
John Kanell [00:12:02]:
It has a lovely play of flavors. It does take a little bit of time. And whenever you make something saucy and pasta y on the stovetop, you know, it's gonna burn on the bottom and you're constantly, like, stirring and scraping. So my time saving hacks for this were to start off by using Bloody Mary mix for the base because that gives you a perfect spiced tomato
Stephanie [00:12:22]:
Yes.
John Kanell [00:12:24]:
And saves a lot of time. And then we do a little work on the stovetop and then pop it into the oven and just bakes perfectly on its own. It's so silky, perfectly saucy, and goes with everything. There's, like on the cover, I have a a lemony chicken pasta bake, and it's a one pan meal. There's a whole chapter of 1 pan meals because, you know, we don't necessarily wanna feel like Cinderella every single day at the sink. And it is just a nice combination of pasta that's been cooked in a flavorful, like, white wine chicken stock sauce. Yum. It's made creamy with a little stir of ricotta, and then you have these beautiful, big, juicy pieces of chicken, lots of sweet cherry tomatoes, lemons, squash, and it's finished off with giant dollops of ricotta.
John Kanell [00:13:14]:
And it looks so good. It's delicious. It's decadent. And it's something you can just make really easily. And then for breakfast, there are these pear fritters where like, I make recipes for a living, and I enjoy all the recipes that I make because they're these pear fritters were so good. It was like, they're so easy to make. It's basically like if you haven't made fritters, which I'm sure you have, but they're it's like pancake batter holding a lot of fruit, and you deep fry it. So unlike a regular donut where you're you know, the yeast and the rising, it's time consuming.
John Kanell [00:13:49]:
You can just throw this together in a few minutes. And the combination of these lovely pears with just enough golden batter holding together, drizzled with a lemony glaze, they're like it's you will eat and inhale the entire batch of them.
Stephanie [00:14:06]:
I feel like you need to have a radio or a TV show too because one thing you're doing that's really working for me is you are making all of the food sound so absolutely delicious with your adjectives and your adverbs and just I mean, I wanna cook everything.
John Kanell [00:14:23]:
Oh, you're too sweet. Thank you. The book starts out, by the way, like, on the subject of being prepared with the pantry of convenience. Because a lot of us like, I'm a little scattered. I I will admit this. And I will go to the store. Do I have cinnamon? I'll buy cinnamon. I go to my pantry and there's 8 cinnamons there.
John Kanell [00:14:44]:
I am set. But I wanted to show people how you can set things up. Just talk about the different kinds of flours, the different kinds of sugars, like all the stuff that, you know, we might take for granted. But when you're making a recipe or setting yourself up, you need to know have them at hand, know what they do. And, you know, if we're talking about a chocolate chip cookie, there's a dry mix for chocolate chip cookies. So you guys have that in your pantry hanging out, the recipe is halfway done, and you can make as many cookies as you want. And it's like a time saver. Same thing for, like, like, a chocolate cake mix.
John Kanell [00:15:16]:
There's a pancake and waffle mix too. So you can have those in your pantry. And then also talk about, like, different ways to, like, treat butter, like, you know, European versus American butter. You know, I love browned butter. It's one of my flavor hacks. It goes in anything. Anything that has butter, you can sub in browned butter, which is butter that's been cooked and caramelized a bit and has lovely nutty flavor. And it gives you so much extra depth and makes everything just a little bit more special.
John Kanell [00:15:43]:
So, of course, I'm gonna talk about butter, browning it. The different types of butter have different amounts of butterfat in them, just so you know, and what that what that means for your recipes, and the list goes on. And I started you off kind of to set you up for success. And then from there, we have all these easy recipes with tons of variations where you can swap out different proteins, try different sauces. You could use different, like, flavor combinations with spices. Or if it's like a baked good, I'll show you how to make cupcakes verse like, the there's people who make either a batch of cupcakes, the 8 inch, the 9 inch layer cake, or a sheet cake, and it'll give you instructions for any of those. So you can
Stephanie [00:16:23]:
Right that alone is impressive because my number one failing as a cook is pan conversion.
John Kanell [00:16:32]:
It's a it takes actually, it takes some math. So many times
Stephanie [00:16:34]:
This is why I'm bad at it.
John Kanell [00:16:37]:
So many times I wish I could go back in time to my middle school math class and say, Listen to this. This is how we're going to use some math in everyday life. And, you know, the only other time that happened out of the kitchen was when I was calculating, how much flooring material to buy. And I do some geometry. I was like, I used the geometry in real life. It's a miracle.
Stephanie [00:17:00]:
Spatial spatial relationships. They're they're here. My daughter, we were working on a project that we had to map out where we were gonna put some boost in an event and she looked at me and she said, how did you do on the SAT and your spatial reasoning? And I was like, not good. Not good.
John Kanell [00:17:19]:
Sassy. She's
Stephanie [00:17:21]:
pretty funny. Could have inspired you. Like, you kinda give me a little bit of a Ina Garten vibe, and I say that in a very nice way because I feel like she's the the leader of high all high priestess of recipe testing. I mean, her recipes always work. They're always beautiful. They're fairly easy.
John Kanell [00:17:40]:
Yeah. Well, that's a very kind
Speaker C [00:17:42]:
the I grew up
John Kanell [00:17:43]:
in Los Angeles, so I'm not, you know, starstruck when I see people. However, one time in New York, I was with my husband, and I saw Ina and Jeffrey walking hand in hand in the park. And it was like, it's real. They're together. Like, he came down. I love her. For recipe testing, what some people don't realize, it's so important to test your recipes multiple times by multiple hands in multiple places. Because you can be in one, like my famous example for this is in the south, and in the south, and it was falling flat.
John Kanell [00:18:31]:
Or it was, like, it had a little bit of a concave, and it wasn't something was off on the texture. And I was like, oh. So I kept adjusting the recipe over and over again. I was like, it's working for me. I don't know what's going on. And, eventually, after some research, we found out that in the, like, in the 4 regions of the US, there's, like, 4 big flour companies. Each one of them uses a different amount of baking powder in their self rising flour. So if you just try to make a self rising flour recipe for something as finicky as a cake, where you're really trying to reduce the flour to give a melt in your mouth consistency, It's it's literally impossible unless you have in your notes everything for the different flour companies.
John Kanell [00:19:10]:
And there's, like, you know, sub brands and private labels, so it's we ended up just using regular flour with to make it work. And you would never have known that unless you recipe test things in different places, especially with different ovens and, you know, like, you have to give proper ranges. And, one of the goals is always to have things just past multiple hands, multiple places, multiple times before they make it into the blog or the cookbook. Because if someone's trusting you with a recipe, what they're really trusting you with is their time, their money, and their moments. You know, it's you're making something for your family to come together. It could be as simple as just dinner for yourself after a long long day, or it's a big celebration and it's like a supposed to be like a show stopping, meal, and that is very, daunting. So we I also wanna make sure it's just right and it'll be full proof.
Stephanie [00:20:01]:
It is kinda heartbreaking when someone texts you or sends you a message and they're like, I made your blah blah blah, but I'm a terrible cook and it didn't work out. And I always think, oh, no. Like, I don't. I'm sorry it didn't work out, number 1, but I'm more sorry that you think you're a terrible cook because of something you cooked of mine that didn't work out. Like, there are so many variables and
Speaker C [00:20:23]:
Yeah.
Stephanie [00:20:24]:
You know, you're trying to control all those variables, but also sometimes everything's just not controllable. Right?
John Kanell [00:20:32]:
There is not. The 2 things I will say on this podcast or the variables you can control. 1, just get a kitchen scale. It'll save your life for anything baking related. Or even if you're just making anything where you have to weigh things out, you will use less measuring cups, less little bowls, less everything else, and save all that washing up time if you're using a scale as dumping it
Speaker C [00:20:56]:
in, and you
John Kanell [00:20:57]:
will get accurate results. If you scooped up flour from a measuring cup, you are going to add maybe like 60% more flour just by packing it in. Most people don't know that if you're using a measuring cup, you're supposed to fluff the flour in your canister. Use a spoon, sprinkle it in like a gentle rain, and then level it off with a knife without compressing to get accurate results, which will give you that melt in your mouth delicious texture that
Stephanie [00:21:23]:
you A scoop and sweep.
John Kanell [00:21:25]:
Yeah. And that's a little bit more work, a little bit more finicky. So if you just dump it in using a scale, you're saving you time. And then the other thing is just do not overmix any batter unless you're doing a bread. So I always use the mixer until I see just a couple streaks of flour and then finish it off by hand with a spatula so I can scrape it down and fold it together. So you have ultimate control and everything will be a nice texture because the texture even changes how you've taste things. You know, if it has a gummy dense texture, those
Stephanie [00:21:57]:
Mhmm.
John Kanell [00:21:58]:
Your tongue just can't accept it and you miss a lot of the flavors.
Stephanie [00:22:03]:
So I think your advice is really solid, but I'm gonna just confess. And I know, like, my friend Zoey Bakes, she'll say the same thing about the kitchen scale.
Speaker C [00:22:14]:
Yeah.
Stephanie [00:22:14]:
She's like, and then you don't have to mess up another bowl and all the little dishes. But there's something about a kitchen scale that feels so mathy.
John Kanell [00:22:23]:
No. It's not. You just press the 0. Just press the 0 button when you're done, and it starts at 0. There's no adding involved. So just tear it out.
Stephanie [00:22:31]:
0 zero 1.
John Kanell [00:22:32]:
No math.
Stephanie [00:22:33]:
Just I use it for my sourdough baking, and I just always feel like, oh, again, with the math. Like, I gotta figure out how much the bowl weighs, how much the this weighs and everything.
John Kanell [00:22:45]:
Zero it out. Put the bowl on to zero it out. And I will tell you that you might just be an intuitive cook, and, like, my mother just doesn't use any measuring. She just throws things in, like, like, a handful of this. And I'm like, oh my gosh.
Stephanie [00:23:01]:
That's how
John Kanell [00:23:02]:
would I full?
Stephanie [00:23:04]:
Like, I have, like funny.
John Kanell [00:23:05]:
If I remember trying to get one of her recipes onto the blog or, like, use that as a starting point,
Speaker C [00:23:09]:
I will it's so frustrating for her because I have to stop her at
John Kanell [00:23:09]:
each point and then take take it, comes out anyway. So maybe you're that person. You're too
Speaker C [00:23:13]:
talented for this. Know. I don't know.
Speaker D [00:23:14]:
I don't know.
John Kanell [00:23:14]:
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I comes out anyway. So maybe you're that person. You're too talented for this.
Stephanie [00:23:22]:
I don't know. I'll we'll see. Now you've competed on some food competition shows, haven't you?
John Kanell [00:23:28]:
So I was a judge on Disney's, Magic Bake Off, and part of the fun there was getting to do, like, a judges compete
Stephanie [00:23:37]:
Yeah.
John Kanell [00:23:38]:
Thing. And it was a I It was really the first time I had done that, like, in a high stakes environment, and it was quite fun. I was working with, another Disney actor who is absolutely not a cook or a baker at all. He's quite young. So I had a couple sessions giving him some, like, coaching moments, and he did his really did his best. And we pulled it together. I was so proud of our our creation. Didn't win, but that was fun.
Stephanie [00:24:04]:
Teacher too. Just like the way that you say that, which is so nice. Like, always lifting someone up.
John Kanell [00:24:11]:
Thank you so much. He was it was fun. I mean, I didn't, realize how invested I would get into it when I accepted the challenge, but I was, you know, really going all out. It was a very elaborate cake we ended up making with, like, have, like, marzipan decorations all over it. Wow. It was all had to be very timed out because normally, I have the luxury of time. Yeah. Well, this I can, like, finicky work on something until I am happy with it, and this was you know, the clock was ticking.
Stephanie [00:24:42]:
Would you do other TV competition shows that passed?
John Kanell [00:24:46]:
Maybe. I could do it. Like, if it was fun. I'm gonna do, Foodie Con in New York in the summer. And, one of the challenges which I have agreed to do is, like, handcuffed and hangry or I'll be handcuffed somebody else doing something, which is just fun and kind of like, you know
Stephanie [00:25:02]:
That is fun. Really.
John Kanell [00:25:03]:
So I would do that. Like yeah.
Stephanie [00:25:05]:
You're handcuffed too.
John Kanell [00:25:07]:
I'll be handcuffed to another food person, TBD, and I get one free hand. So I'm hoping my left hand is free.
Stephanie [00:25:15]:
If you had to pick someone to be handcuffed with, and it can be anybody
Speaker D [00:25:20]:
Mhmm. That
Stephanie [00:25:20]:
you have to cook something with, who would it be?
John Kanell [00:25:22]:
I know.
Stephanie [00:25:25]:
I mean, that's a solid bet. Right? Yes. Because you know whatever you did would be great. We are talking with John Kanell. It is the Preppy Kitchen. Super easy. A 100 simple and versatile recipes. When you think about, like, the legacy that you're gonna leave your kids, 2 7 year old boys, are you gonna teach them to cook?
John Kanell [00:25:45]:
They already know. I mean, honestly, they are very curious about what happens in the kitchen. And I love using my time in the kitchen as, like, bonding time, like my mom and I did. So, you know, we're all connected to devices as adults. My kids are, like, connected to the Legos. And being in the kitchen is one moment where you're really, really present. It's tactile. You're engaged, and you're making something that's memorable.
John Kanell [00:26:16]:
So, like, on Sunday, we like pizzas. Started off very simple with, like, them adding the toppings on. And now once they were 6, they were at the point where they could start off with just all I do is warm measure the water out and warm it. And then they, like, you know, bloom the yeast. They add the flour in. And they're using a scale, so they get to talk about numbers a little bit. Like, okay. Let's get close to that.
John Kanell [00:26:41]:
And it doesn't be perfect, but, like, let's get close. And then they need it, and they work on it, and they shape it. And, you know, it's like a nice afternoon where they can come and do a little bit of work, and then exit, and they love it.
Stephanie [00:26:52]:
Yeah. I love it. That's a great story, and I hope more people get in the kitchen with their kids because that is how you learn.
Speaker C [00:26:59]:
And it's
John Kanell [00:26:59]:
how people connect with food too. Like, it's easy to a picky eater. I understand some people are just naturally, like, super tasters or else, and, like, I won't take that away from them, but, like, my kids. And then I developed an appreciation for it. And just your palate changes over time, and you change. But the exposure is different. And when you're making something, you have a hand in it, and that really gives you more of an investment in trying it out and wanting to like it.
Stephanie [00:27:25]:
Yeah. And I think people do go back and try foods that you maybe didn't like as a kid and you have a totally different experience with it later.
John Kanell [00:27:32]:
Yeah. The brussels sprouts.
Stephanie [00:27:34]:
Yeah. Oh, gosh. We I made brussels sprouts for a dinner party once and one of my friends was aghast. Like, literally could not understand why I would be serving brussels sprouts and I was like, well, have you had them in a while? Go ahead and taste them. They're pretty great and he loved them, but he was just like remember that time when you had a dinner party and you made brussels sprouts? He just thought it was so risky. I was like, not too risky. Yeah.
John Kanell [00:28:00]:
One little face.
Stephanie [00:28:01]:
Yes. That's right. Well, I'm gonna put links to the book in the show notes and people will follow you. I'll put all that in the show notes. It was great to talk with you, John, and good luck on the book.
John Kanell [00:28:12]:
Thanks so much for having me over, and Yeah. Wait to see everybody on my book tour. It starts August 20th.
Stephanie [00:28:17]:
And will you be coming to Minneapolis by chance?
John Kanell [00:28:20]:
I will not. I think the closest I'll get is Chicago. But if you're in the neighborhood, come see me. We go to Los Angeles, Dallas, Seattle, Chicago, Atlanta, and New York, and not in that order.
Stephanie [00:28:32]:
How fun, though. Oh, I just I'm I hope I get to do a book tour sometime. Right now, my books are pretty regional. But someday, I'm gonna go on a book tour, I swear.
John Kanell [00:28:41]:
It's really fun. I I see that visualized in your future.
Stephanie [00:28:45]:
Yes. I'm manifesting right now. Thanks for being on the program. I really appreciate you.
John Kanell [00:28:49]:
Thanks for having me. Have a nice day.
Stephanie [00:28:51]:
Alright. Okay. Bye bye.

This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe
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Nava Atlas
9 Aug· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Nava Atlas is an American cookbook author and illustrator known for her work on the groundbreaking and inventive “Vegetariana” and her “Vegan Soups and Stews For All Seasons,” now in its fourth edition.
Truly a pioneer in the culinary world, activism, literature, and art, Vegetariana first hit bookshelves in 1984. Now, 37 years later, Nava’s premier work encompassing recipes, food lore, and imaginative illustrations has been reborn for a whole new generation of compassionate cooks.
Nava’s “Vegan Soups and Stews For All Seasons,” features 120 Vegan Soup and Stew recipes that have been tried and true over the last 25 years. Nava’s vegan chicken noodle soup is one of her favorite recipes from the book. Here is the recipe from her blog, The Vegan Atlas and make sure to follow her substack newsletter at The Vegan Atlas
and Literary Ladies Guide is at
Whether you’re looking for a colorful global stew or a refreshing cold soup, there’s something for every soup lover in these pages.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Stephanie [00:00:11]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to people obsessed with food, and we do talk to a lot of cookbook authors, and I feel pretty honored today. I'm with, I feel like, a living legend, not only in the vegetarian category, but vegan category, and also a fellow soup lover, which is so exciting. Good morning, Nava. How are you? Welcome to the show, Nava Hatless.
Nava Atlas [00:00:35]:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here, and I'll tell you why in a moment.
Stephanie [00:00:41]:
Okay. So let us talk because you have Vegetariana was one of your first books, which is
Nava Atlas [00:00:48]:
This is my first.
Stephanie [00:00:49]:
Okay. And it is a hoot. It has, like, these hand drawn illustrations, little bits of wisdom throughout. It is really a well done book, and it was reissued in the last couple of years and made all completely vegan. Did you go vegan later in life? Or tell me about that transition.
Nava Atlas [00:01:08]:
It was exactly, I would say, 20. I go by my son's age because he was 10 when he went vegan, and now he's 32. So it's always easy for me to keep track. So, yeah, 22 years vegan. I was vegetarian since high school. So I was kind of an early adopter, not necessarily on the veganism side of it, but, you know, I remember even in being a weirdo as a vegetarian back then. And also I was gonna say that, you know, I've really seen this whole progression from analog to digital and, you know, wanting to familiarize myself with you, your work, your podcast. I went straight to and, of course, I'm going to forget.
Nava Atlas [00:01:51]:
Oh, John Kung. Yeah. And he was talking about Detroit, and I was so thrilled because I grew up right outside Detroit.
Stephanie [00:02:02]:
My radio partner grew up outside Detroit too. And I really I love Detroit. I visited and had, like, 4 very memorable days in my life.
Nava Atlas [00:02:14]:
It is an amazing city, and it's an an amazing transformation. The last time I was there was not that long ago. It was maybe a year ago a year ago, June. Sure. And, my friend was showing me around central downtown, and then I saw an article. I'm not sure if it was in New York Times or elsewhere statistic that statistic that says that downtown Detroit is actually safer than San Francisco.
Stephanie [00:02:46]:
Oh, I believe that. Yeah. I absolutely believe that. It is a really cool place to visit. The farmer's market alone was just mind blowing to me. So many just sheds upon sheds of makers, and I've always loved maker culture and people that make products, and I have podcasts about that too. And really just enjoy the craft of people making food and how hard they have to work and how delicious it is.
Nava Atlas [00:03:15]:
And so many vegan restaurants, you know, for me, that's really my interest. And, one that had started when I was in college in Ann Arbor, I am a University of Michigan graduate, was Ceva, and now they have that beautiful place in downtown Detroit that is delicious. It is, you know, expensive on a par with New York, still very much worth it. But I, you know, I'm really glad to see the city thriving because the city has been through so much. Yeah. And I have to admit, I did not get to Eastern Market on my last visit because I also really wanted to save some time to go to Ann Arbor, my alma mater, and see how I haven't been to Ann Arbor for a longer time and how that has transformed. It looks like a little city now. And then Royal Oak looks like Ann Arbor did when I went to something there.
Stephanie [00:04:02]:
It's funny. Yeah. So veganism, I will say so I do eat meat, and I knew people that were vegans, and I knew it was a thing. And, obviously, being in the food world, you're paying attention to trends. And, obviously, eating plant based is super beneficial health wise. And then I started working on my TV show, and my executive producer is vegan. And I just really felt like I had my eyes opened to what it really means to, like, live a vegan lifestyle. And for her, she's been doing it like you for so long.
Stephanie [00:04:42]:
It's just like, oh, I just don't eat meat. It's really no big deal at all. And we are so fortunate now in that we have so many choices and so many options in our food world. Writing a cookbook that's vegan specific to soup, I thought was probably not as hard as people think because a lot of soups are vegan if you're using a vegetable broth.
Nava Atlas [00:05:03]:
Right. They're vegan. So many soups are vegan already, and soup is a very plant forward type of food, maybe second only to salad.
Stephanie [00:05:12]:
Yeah. Exactly. And that's kinda how I think about soup because I make a lot of soup, but I also make a lot because I cook a lot. So I have all of the vegetable scraps and the broths and the little dribs and drabs of things that I'm always throwing into a soup. When you put your cookbook together, was it hard for you to think about, like, okay, what recipes am I gonna put in? What am I not?
Nava Atlas [00:05:34]:
So this book, like Vegetariana, has a long history. What you're holding in your hands now is the 5th edition. I've heard. Yeah. So I think I published it. I I had an agent back then, not the same one I have now, and she said, oh, you know, publishers are saying this is just too niche. It's too specific. Couldn't find a publisher.
Nava Atlas [00:05:54]:
So I thought, you know what? I'll publish it myself. And at the time, it was it was actually so many more people are self publishing now, but it was easier back then like a lot of things. It was a very small, really diminutive hand drawn book, and it did very well. So once I had proved myself, it was picked up by Little Brown. Then it went out of print at Little Brown. I went back to self publishing it. That same editor went to Random House, so she picked it up again, and then it went out of print. It you know, none of the additions before this one had as many photographs and they weren't designed as beautifully as I would have liked.
Nava Atlas [00:06:38]:
So it was really nice to get the whole process back into my hands.
Stephanie [00:06:42]:
The book is really beautiful. So did you publish this version yourself?
Nava Atlas [00:06:47]:
This one I did because, you know, after the 4th edition, it's the likelihood of another publisher publishing something that's been in and out of print so many times is probably close to nil. Even though it has sold lots of copies, you know, people want to move on to the new thing, to the fresh thing, and it's understandable.
Stephanie [00:07:06]:
I'm pretty impressed by that. Not only that you're in your 5th edition, but as a cookbook writer myself who does publish the more traditional route, you're probably, financially, it's a much better, amount of money per book that you make probably publishing yourself than going through a publishing house.
Nava Atlas [00:07:28]:
I was going to say maybe per book for the copies that you're lucky to sell, but, you know, really at a disadvantage from the perspective of distribution. That's a big thing. Yep. I have a good distributor, but, you know, I I feel I felt like, you know, I just want a beautiful edition of this book before I leave this mortal coil. But as far as making lots of money, no. I would say to your listeners, that's not the way to get rich.
Stephanie [00:07:58]:
Yeah. No. I just see, I think about it from the perspective of, like, okay. A traditional book, the author probably makes anywhere from 3 to $7 a copy.
Nava Atlas [00:08:09]:
Less than that.
Stephanie [00:08:10]:
Okay. And then a published book that you publish yourself, people say that you can make anywhere from 15 to $22 a copy.
Nava Atlas [00:08:19]:
Oh, maybe connect me with those people. I'd like to see where they got that information. Because Okay. You know, you're not doing huge printing, so your per unit cost is not great. Right. And also, I didn't wanna print overseas because, you know, that's another thing in itself and the books have to be printed way ahead of time. Yes. And so I did it domestically, which I think they did a beautiful job.
Thank you for reading Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter. This post is public so feel free to share it.
Stephanie [00:08:42]:
It is beautiful. But the per
Nava Atlas [00:08:43]:
unit cost is going to be a little bit more. But, you know, this was a, a labor of love, I would say, to get it into print in a fashion that I'm really happy with. Because I do like you, I absolutely love soup. I think that I would say it's my very favorite category of food and eating. It just it's so digestible. And like I said, with the title, soups and stews for all seasons, you make them every time. If your people think of it fall, winter, but I love a cold summer soup. There's nothing more refreshing for dinner than, you know, when it's a warm evening like the summer we've had this past summer to have a a really delicious cold soup.
Stephanie [00:09:26]:
And like gazpacho can be revelatory. Right?
Nava Atlas [00:09:30]:
Absolutely. And a lot of these soups also, I would say in my summer chapter, about half of them are no cook. So that's great for those times where you feel like you just don't wanna turn on a single burner. Watermelon gazpacho is one of my newer favorites.
Stephanie [00:09:45]:
I did not see that in there. I'll have to look back. That sounds really interesting to me. Chilled soup is always a little I don't get there. I get there when it's really hot. I just don't think about it unless it's super hot.
Nava Atlas [00:10:00]:
I have a few that are good hot or cold. Like, one that I made not long ago, it's called tangy cold potato spinach soup.
Stephanie [00:10:08]:
And that's literally just open to that.
Nava Atlas [00:10:10]:
Oh, yeah. That it that's really good hot or cold. That could be, you know, had in the fall, nice and warm or hot. And then the next one also, cold creamy leek and potato soup because you do think leeks is a little bit more of a fall or spring vegetable. And I would say sometimes I just I don't even pay attention to the chapters. If I feel like having a winter soup in the summer, I'll do that or vice versa. You know? Well, I wouldn't have a a summer cold summer soup in the winter. But reverse, yes.
Stephanie [00:10:39]:
Yeah. Same. I was just at my cabin. It was 80 degrees, and I made, chicken broccoli soup because I just was hungry for it. Yeah. Let's talk about some of the stews. And you it feels like there's some global influences kind of in here, some Thai influences, perhaps some African influences. How do you get your ideas for recipes?
Nava Atlas [00:11:05]:
Well, if it's a it's globally influenced, I'm influenced by what I have when I go out to eat. And if I go out to eat, I like to have things that I haven't had at home or don't normally make at home, but then it's so much fun to try to recreate it in your own kitchen. And now, you know, supermarkets are a veritable feast of international ingredients, which is great. One of my favorites, my absolute favorite, what I call my favorite food hacks because I'm really lazy when it comes to Indian cuisine Mhmm. Is, simmer sauce. Mhmm. Indian. Have you ever tried any of the those?
Stephanie [00:11:42]:
Yeah. I have. Yep.
Nava Atlas [00:11:44]:
They're amazing. They really take anything you put them on tastes like it came from the best Indian restaurant because I am just simply too lazy to do the grinding 20 spices
Stephanie [00:11:54]:
and For sure.
Nava Atlas [00:11:55]:
You need to you'd get those complex flavors. It's not just about dumping some curry powder into something. So that has been really wonderful. And then in the last couple years, I would say I've really fallen in love with kimchi. Yes. Me too. Just how good it is for us. So the kimchi
Stephanie [00:12:14]:
to get past the idea like it smells. Right? When you open that first jar
Nava Atlas [00:12:20]:
or first do. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:12:22]:
Just sort of like, ugh. It's just got that really heavily fermented smell. But then when you use it, it doesn't taste like it smells at all.
Nava Atlas [00:12:30]:
It definitely mellows. And, you know, there are 2 types of kimchi. There is a kimchi made with fish sauce and I'm not I'm just guessing that might have more of the aroma.
Stephanie [00:12:39]:
Yeah.
Nava Atlas [00:12:39]:
And so I get the vegan kimchi. And again, I have a kimchi soup here and the list might look a little longer. I'm not a big fan of huge long ingredient list, by the way. A little bit longer than my usual, but it's still so easy, and it's one of those soups that's on the table in 30 minutes.
Stephanie [00:12:58]:
And which one is it?
Nava Atlas [00:12:59]:
The kimchi soup on page 63.
Stephanie [00:13:02]:
Alright. I'm just gonna take a look at that while we're sitting here too. Alright. And then stews, was that purposeful to include stews or is that just because soups kind of are like sue stews too.
Nava Atlas [00:13:15]:
You know, I have always called stews soups with a chunkier texture and a little more attitude.
Stephanie [00:13:23]:
Okay. That's a good way to describe it. I like it.
Nava Atlas [00:13:26]:
Right. So I have here this Italian mixed vegetable stew with the gnocchi, and the gnocchi tend to absorb a little bit more of the broth, so it becomes more stew like. And then I think in one of the later chapters, I have a a Thai vegetable stew with a peanut base. They're just so adaptable. You can you know, if you don't like stew like textures, you just put a little bit more liquid or water and it becomes you're back to a soup.
Stephanie [00:13:54]:
When I was looking at this easy laksa soup, the Southeast Asian influence there, I'm gonna be going to Southeast Asia in January.
Nava Atlas [00:14:03]:
Oh, really? I've never
Stephanie [00:14:04]:
been, and I was
Nava Atlas [00:14:05]:
Oh, wow.
Stephanie [00:14:06]:
There's so many delicious soups in their culture.
Nava Atlas [00:14:09]:
Absolutely. In fact, my nieces and nephews were just telling me a story that they were in, I believe it was Thailand, and they said by the end of their visit, they didn't wanna see another noodle again. Yep. There are a lot
Stephanie [00:14:21]:
of noodles in the Thailand for sure.
Nava Atlas [00:14:24]:
I don't think it would I would ever tire of that though.
Stephanie [00:14:27]:
How did you get started in cookbook writing?
Nava Atlas [00:14:30]:
That is a very interesting story. In high school, like I said I was kind of the the oddball vegetarian both at school and in my family. Don't really remember what gave me that notion other than you know, I just never liked meat. My mom did this kind of bland Eastern European cooking. And I don't know, I think I was a little bit early for the hippie era, but I was kind of a wannabe. So I decided to go vegetarian. And my mom said, well, I'm not going to cook 2 meals. If you wanna be a vegetarian, you're gonna have to cook for yourself thinking that that would put a an end to it.
Nava Atlas [00:15:07]:
Yeah. But I really took to it. I really enjoyed it. And back then, we didn't have these beautiful supermarkets or whole foods or where these dusty health food stores.
Stephanie [00:15:18]:
Oh, I remember.
Nava Atlas [00:15:19]:
Yeah. Where it was probably 70% vitamins and potions and maybe a little bit, you know, and then brown things that you'd buy by the by the pound.
Stephanie [00:15:30]:
Yes.
Nava Atlas [00:15:30]:
But we just loved it. So I bought the the brown lentils and the brown oat groats and what not that we had, and I had so much fun with it. Then, when I got married rather early on in life, my husband really wanted to be a vegetarian, but he was absolutely no cook. Still isn't. You can make a good salad, but that's about it's his limit. So we would go out once in a while. We lived in New York City at the time, and I'd like to recreate things at home or just concoct. And he said, you really need to write this one down.
Nava Atlas [00:16:02]:
You need to write this one down, and I'll write this one down. And after a while, I found myself with a lot of recipes. I was, oh, I was a trained, never trained as a chef. In fact, sometimes people introduce me as a chef and I say, that's very nice of you, but it's an insult to chefs.
Stephanie [00:16:19]:
Yeah. I feel similarly. I'm just so well cooked.
Nava Atlas [00:16:22]:
Right. Exactly. I was a trained graphic designer and illustrator. And in fact, the book you're holding, one of them, Vegetariana, I designed and illustrated. And the design and the illustrations are very similar, identical, really, almost identical to the original edition, But with some additional new illustrations that I did, this was what I called my COVID project When we were inside for 2 years, I did a lot of new illustrations for it. And that's when I veganized it.
Stephanie [00:16:55]:
It's really it's a super lovely book. It's different than any other cookbook because it has just so much personality, but yet the recipes look super delicious too. It's like every page, I feel like I turn it, and it's a new discovery.
Nava Atlas [00:17:08]:
Oh, thank you. And I also call it the kind of cookbook that you can read in bed. Because there's a lot of stories and folklore and food lore and food history, which also kind of fascinates me. How I started writing was I did accumulate a lot of recipes. We were a starving artist couple in New York City back then. I remember going to a lecture by some well known graphic designer whose name, of course, I no longer remember, but he said, if you're a freelancer, unless you do something for yourself that's completely your own, you're gonna be just going from job to job to job. And I thought, that really resonated. So I thought why don't I try to put this together as a book.
Nava Atlas [00:17:53]:
And back then everything was analog. There was just phones. In fact, there was only landlines. And I was so shy. I was it was really a miracle that I was able to be a freelance illustrator and graphic designer because back then, the way to do it was to cold call and make an appointment with the art director and schlep the literal huge portfolio. So I had to make a, you know, what I thought was a proposal and make, you know, make a copy of it and send it off to and I sent it to 1 publisher, And they kept it for 6 months before saying no. And at that point, again, I read about how the publishing process worked. I was completely naive, and it said, you've got to find an agent.
Nava Atlas [00:18:41]:
I thought, how am I, one of the shyest people on earth, going to find an agent? So my husband actually took my my really rough proposal to a copy shop across from where our studio was, our art studio. And the guy behind the counter said, oh, what is this? It looks really interesting. And my husband told him, he said, oh, my girlfriend is an agent. So he gave me her number. But of course I had to call them on a landline with my hand and my voice shaking. And they said, well, you can, you know, mail it or you can drop it off, but we know we're not looking right now, and it could take several weeks or several months. And I said to my husband, I can't do this. Can you take it up? They were also in New York City.
Nava Atlas [00:19:29]:
Can you take it up there for me? So he did, and he came back and he said, oh, they weren't very nice, and they had a dog, and he was barking at me. And I said, well, this doesn't sound good. Well, the very next morning, my landline was ringing. And they said, oh, we love this and we wanna represent it. And I think within a few weeks, they'd sold it to one of the top cookbook editors in New York City. But, honestly, I was just too young and too dumb to really appreciate what, you know, synchronicity, luck, maybe some talent, of course. We have to own that about ourselves as women, but I didn't believe it at the time. And, it was, you know, the rest as they say is history.
Stephanie [00:20:13]:
It really what a great story. I love hearing that because anybody in the publishing world finding an agent is just like finding a needle in a hay stack, and then getting the book bought by the publisher is another needle. And even, you know, if you have good publishers, some people have bad experiences. The publishing industry has changed since COVID. It's just changed so dramatically.
Nava Atlas [00:20:34]:
Yes. I mean, there has always been, I would say, you know we always think everything back then was better not necessarily. You see in vegetariana the drawings are very delicate
Stephanie [00:20:45]:
Yeah. And
Nava Atlas [00:20:46]:
white. Well, when I first saw my book in print, I cried, but not from happiness. They had inked the drawing so heavily and that some of the pages were actually sticking together.
Stephanie [00:20:58]:
Aw.
Nava Atlas [00:20:58]:
So it was an epic nightmare. But they did they corrected everything for the second printing, and the book was actually very successful. And it led me to my second, and then I thought, well, this is a great way for a starving artist to make money. Yeah. And, you know, you know, I was very dedicated at the time to vegetarianism as much as right now, I'm even more dedicated to veganism for many, many reasons. But, you know, what you say is right. I feel like and I can't give the name on the air, but I've been so blessed with my agent.
Stephanie [00:21:29]:
Mhmm.
Nava Atlas [00:21:30]:
And it is, again, sometimes it's a matter of luck or timing and and persistence. Persistence is a very important ingredient.
Stephanie [00:21:39]:
And I love this story about you putting yourself out there because we're in this kind of weird age. And I I'm am I like the the where we're at, but it's different in that now, so many people that are getting, you know, 6 figure advanced cookbook deals are influencers or have a huge following on social media. And what I find more often than not, many of them are great, but also what you the skill sets that you need to be a good social media influencer are not necessarily the same skill sets that you need to be a good cookbook author. So you can do great hands videos and 5 ingredients or less or they the publishers now just look like how many social media followers do they have. Are they on TikTok? Are they doing these videos? And that's kind of how you get the deal. I hope that we still can have some of the other types of books that are more labor of loves and are single themed or are unique and different in that way. And I'm worried we might lose some of that, and it's all gonna be gonna come about a personality.
Nava Atlas [00:22:51]:
Yeah. All of what you say is a 100% correct. And in fact, when I was, listening to your podcast with John Kung, and he was saying he has 2,000,000 followers on TikTok. Well, I have 0 followers on TikTok because I'm not on TikTok, and I have nothing against it. In fact, I think it's great. I think when people can kind of build their own platform, it's just wonderful. But aside from doing cookbooks, I'm also a a writer, a nonfiction writer. I run 2 websites, and I feel like there's just so many hours in a day and just so many skill sets and hats that one person can wear.
Stephanie [00:23:26]:
Yeah. And some of the, I mean, some of the fast quick hand photography or videography or even just, like, doing videos on YouTube. Thank god for me because as a home cook, you know, I don't know. I don't have good knife skills. I am really just like your next door neighbor that's cooking you food and has a reasonably funny personality, but that's about all I got. So it's it's fun to be able to make a career with those skills. Yes. But I also I do understand that, you know, there are people like the Ina Garten's of the world who we need to make room for them too because even though maybe, you know, she does she has a lot of people on TikTok and all that now.
Stephanie [00:24:11]:
But in the day, she didn't. And her books are really well researched and really well put together. It's kind of an exciting time, but it's also a time where there's a lot for a lot of different types of people. And young people too. Like, what makes I mean, my daughter's 25, and she's really into cooking. But she cooks things I would never cook. Like, she will make her own bagels. I would no more near make my own bagel and boil it.
Stephanie [00:24:36]:
And I just, you know, that's not really what I do, but I'm so impressed that she does it. She'll do the 4 day project cooking, you know, the making the steamed bao buns and just doing all kinds of fun stuff.
Nava Atlas [00:24:49]:
That's wonderful, though. My daughter has become a really good seitan maker. Are you familiar with it?
Stephanie [00:24:55]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Nava Atlas [00:24:55]:
And and it's my recipe and I've really refined it. But I thought sometimes it just feels like such a project to me. I'm so glad that she likes to do it. Yeah. It's very useful.
Stephanie [00:25:07]:
So is your whole family vegan and vegetarian?
Nava Atlas [00:25:11]:
I would say, you know, yes. In fact, we went vegan at the same time. My husband has kind of gone in and out of having eggs. So when he has eggs, he's a vegetarian, but both of my kids, my kids were raised vegetarian. Neither of them, and they are not young anymore. Neither of them have ever tasted meat in their life.
Stephanie [00:25:31]:
Oh, that's so funny. I can't even imagine that because we just eat so much beef in the Midwest. What I will say, this producer that I was talking to you about that's vegan, she started raising chickens. And she had all these eggs, and eventually, she started eating the eggs. And then she ended up getting rid of the chicken, so she's off the eggs again. But it it it was interesting to hear, like, how she came to even incorporating eggs into her life. She was just like, I have all these eggs. I hate the waste.
Nava Atlas [00:26:02]:
Right. And, you know, when you have chickens, they're gonna lay eggs.
Stephanie [00:26:05]:
Yeah. So, you know, I
Nava Atlas [00:26:06]:
have a friend who raises backyard chickens and, you know, she's giving them usually to my a lot of times to my husband. And it's nice to know that they're eggs that are raised too mainly, you know, where they came from and everything.
Stephanie [00:26:18]:
If you had to say a favorite recipe for you in the vegan soups and stews book, you kind of already said, the one. I just before we wrap up, is there a book or is there a recipe that feels really personal to you or something that you feel like is a signature just of yours?
Nava Atlas [00:26:39]:
I just opened to 1, the mock chicken noodle soup. So chicken noodle soup with c h I c k apostrophe n. Yes. And subtitle is kinda like my mom's but without the bird. So this uses did
Stephanie [00:26:56]:
you get that flavor without the bird?
Nava Atlas [00:27:00]:
Well, I used vegetable or vegan chicken style bouillon cubes. Mhmm. And then the chicken chicken product also, they usually have their own flavor. And it's really, you know, it's really not that difficult. I feel like this is proof positive that pretty much anything can be veganized. And I'm going back to the beginning of the program saying that I really didn't like my mom's cooking very much, but yet I loved my mom. So this super reminds me not so much of my mom's cooking that I didn't particularly like, but of my mom. Yeah.
Nava Atlas [00:27:35]:
So even looking at it and the way it looks is just just brings me back to my childhood. And I think that's so much of what eating is about. And so much of what comfort food is about is that nostalgia and that comfort of, you know, our parents or our family and the safety. And I feel like that is just such a universal human need. I always think that we're not necessarily alike as humans, but I think that we all want the same things. We want love, security, our family, and food is just such a way to bring people together.
Stephanie [00:28:14]:
Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And boy, that's a great way to end it. I love that you shared that, story. And I was just you know, that we're just coming off of the Republican National Convention, and I've been feeling a little bit like trying to be open minded, but also feeling a little tribal in my belief system. And I do think about getting back to what do what are people wanting? You when you really get down to it, we do want a lot of the same things. We come out of different points of view, but it helps me to have empathy and understanding when I'm having a hard time feeling like, who are these people?
Nava Atlas [00:28:57]:
I'm glad you said it. Not me, but I I get I get it.
Stephanie [00:29:02]:
And yeah. And on both sides, really. I mean, I'm from Minneapolis, and believe me, we have a lot of left, real left, left, left stuff happening right now. And on the one hand, some of it's really exciting. And on the other hand, I just feel like it's too much, and you feel like you're kinda pulled on all sides and not sure where the real understanding is. And I'm just trying to find my own personal empathetic path as we Absolutely. Get walking up to this election regardless of what So
Nava Atlas [00:29:30]:
Find a way to meet in the middle and things that we all have as commonalities.
Stephanie [00:29:34]:
And it is always food and soup, isn't it?
Nava Atlas [00:29:37]:
Absolutely. I think food really brings us together for sure.
Stephanie [00:29:41]:
This has been such a delight. Thank you so much for spending a little time with me today. I appreciate it. And we'll get the podcast edited and posted. It is Vegetariana. That is the original book, A Rich Harvest of Whitlore and Recipes. And the new book that's not new, but in its 5th edition, but new with pretty pictures, vegan soups and stews for all seasons, Nava Atlas. Thanks joining me.
Stephanie [00:30:03]:
I really appreciate it.
Nava Atlas [00:30:04]:
Oh, thank you. If I could just, one more thing is that people can visit me as at the vegan atlas dotcom.
Stephanie [00:30:11]:
Okay. I think I went to your website once, so I'll put that in the show notes.
Nava Atlas [00:30:15]:
Oh, thank you so much.
Stephanie [00:30:16]:
Okay. Great to meet you.
Nava Atlas [00:30:17]:
Bye bye. Alright.
Stephanie [00:30:18]:
Bye bye.
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A Makers of Minnesota Edition - Mixly Cocktail Mixers
26 Jul· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Behind Mixly Cocktail Co. is a group of friends. Some met in college, others through work, but they all came together with their shared love of craft cocktails and thought they could offer a complex craft cocktail base that you could make at home.
Whether you are making Mocktail or Cocktails, any of Mixly’s 7 cocktail varieties or their new Spritz line will transport you to a craft cocktail bar experience at home.
Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT :
Stephanie [00:00:16]:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to dishing with Stephanie's dish. This is a Minnesota maker edition, which are always extra special to me because it's how I got started in the podcast space. I'm here with Jonna Rosbach, and she is the founder of Mixley, which is a we'll call it a cocktail concentrate. Is that what you would call it, Johnna? I think Johnna?
Johnna [00:00:36]:
I think you could. I mean, we still refer to it as a mixer, but it certainly is more concentrated than typically what you find on shelf.
Stephanie [00:00:44]:
And what it is is this delicious fruit forward mixer that you can mix with mocktails. You can have it in a cocktail. You can have it with sparkling wine. You can just have it with, you know, soda pop, really. If you wanted to have it with 7 Up, it would be equally delicious. What made you think that, like, this was a place in the market that there was a hole that you could fill with this product?
Johnna [00:01:12]:
So there was a couple things. I think the the first area was, well, we all we started the journey, when we set out to you know, wanting to do our own business, and we love the idea of cocktails. Me and my business partners, we love cocktails, and just kind of the faucet making great cocktail. And then we went to the shelf to see you know, curious what our mixers like these days. Yeah. And we were shocked to see, oh, oh my gosh.
Stephanie [00:01:40]:
There's bad.
Johnna [00:01:41]:
Bad. Really bad. Bad ingredients, bad branding, bad flavors, same old flavors. And so we were just really excited. 1, I think just let's clean up the ingredient deck. Like, we all know in every other beverage category, we've evolved. So let's 1, step 1. 2, let's bring exciting flavors, like what you would want to see at a craft, you know, at a great bar, at a you know, getting a craft cocktail.
Johnna [00:02:06]:
And then I think 3rd, this was I was pregnant at the time. The kind of sober, curious, any movement was just coming. So, like, let's make this versatile. Let's make this for everyone. So whether you're drinking or you're not, you can really make it your way and, you're not no one's having to feel left out, you know, if they're not drinking alcohol.
Stephanie [00:02:27]:
I think a lot of products too thought that they were gonna deliver on that message, but then kind of few did. Because if you weren't having them with alcohol, some of them didn't have the flavor punch. Others, if you were drinking them strictly as a mocktail, they were a little too much. Like, you guys really seem to hit the right balance. So go through your flavor profile because you've been pretty consistent too.
Johnna [00:02:54]:
Yeah. It's really about a balanced cocktail. So you're gonna have you know, you want the balance of the sweetness. So obviously, or tartness. Right? So the fruit, whether like the strawberry, pomegranate, you're gonna have some of that tartness. We wanna balance that then with a honey. So we used a honey in our simple syrup base, and that is really just gonna create a more balanced sweetness versus cane sugar can be really intense. And then the benefit to a lot of people do, you know, prefer honey as a sweetener these days over cane sugar and then acid.
Johnna [00:03:28]:
So, obviously, it's lemon or lime in all of our flavors, and that acidity is, not only part of a great cocktail or can be part of a great cocktail, but also for us, that is what acts as our kinda natural, stabilizer. Right? So we are shelf stable, but because we, you know, lean into some of those, you know, to the using fresh lime and lemon, it allows us to be shelf stable longer without having to add preservatives. So I think right. It's like the sweetness or tartness and then a really good acid. And then we do have a lot of, bring in a lot of, earthy flavors as well. So we have, like, the pineapple basil lime. So we're adding in, you know, the freshness of the babel basil or the mint, cucumbermint lime has that, you know, really, refreshing element. And same thing too, like, one of my favorites we just launched, as part of our spritz line is the elderflower mint.
Johnna [00:04:26]:
And that again, it's floral. It's refreshing with the mint. It's, yeah. So it's really all about, yeah, that combo to create a nice balanced cocktail.
Stephanie [00:04:36]:
So I'm talking with cofounder at Mixley, Jonna Rosbach, and you mentioned that you have this spritz line. It is a new we'll call it an extension. Is that fair? And why did you rebrand it and make it somewhat different looking than the traditional mixed line? I was curious what the thought process was there.
Johnna [00:04:57]:
We were really great summer, you know, sipper. And we felt too that this was not only do we want to, you know, jump into the spritz, scene with our Mixley take, And it was a fun truly, like, Megan, our my business partner who's our designer is just so creative, wanted to have fun and and see, you know, how a kind of different branding would do. But I think it's also just, you know, it's an interesting test for us of how does a a mixer that's for a single a single type of cocktail do versus the versatility message we've had with Mixley where you can make it with rum or tequila or vodka. Like, how does that resonate with consumers when it's, like, really easy? It's a spritz. You mix it with sparkling wine, and there you go. So we wanted to distinguish it a bit, have fun with it, and then also it's just interesting to see, yeah, how it performs.
Stephanie [00:05:54]:
Can you talk a little bit about that? Because, clearly to me, that seems like people that have a marketing background that are doing sorta AB testing that are really as interested in the brand packaging and the messaging as the actual love of the cocktail itself. So what was your background and your business partner's background getting here? Because it seems sort of packaged goods focused.
Johnna [00:06:20]:
You are correct. Very much. Yes. So my background is all CPG marketing. Came up through the agency world and then spent, years in in corporate marketing at, you know, 2 different big food, CPG firms. And Megan, my business partner, the same. So, yes, we have that background. Her background's design.
Johnna [00:06:41]:
My background is more the marketing communication. So some ways, that's very helpful. In some ways, you have to take everything that you learned in your big CPG world and forget that you learned it because it doesn't apply.
Stephanie [00:06:53]:
Yeah. To yeah. That's really interesting too because I think that's one of the if I'm talking with people that are manufacturing products or talking about products and that's their background, I usually do tell them that. And you also don't have the depth of, staff or even the depth of resources or time. So you have to kinda move a lot faster than people are comfortable with.
Johnna [00:07:19]:
Yeah. Move faster. And I think even as you think about, like, the marketing tactics, things that we would do, it's like, it's so different when you already have brand awareness and distribution. Yeah. We made a lot of mistakes early on. I was like, oh, that lesson, that thing I thought I did really well. Like, that does not apply to Mixley to what we're doing. So
Stephanie [00:07:40]:
What's an example of that?
Johnna [00:07:44]:
I would say, for example okay. Spending on influencers. Right? Everyone wants to spend on influencers. And I'm not to say that's wrong. However, it is a very different game when you don't have, on shelf presence. Also, if you're just gonna do and true if you're truly going to invest in d two c, you have to do it right. So if you're having influencers drive to your website, you really have to be focused. And I think when we launched, we were trying to do too much.
Johnna [00:08:12]:
We were doing retail and a little d two c. So you're just your spend in a in a tactic like influencer marketing is really not gonna go far in the stage we were at, and that's where we learned to focus and prioritize early on. We launched we went heavy into retail, and that's what we did. So influencers at our stage of the game don't make sense. What makes sense is in store tastings. So that's where if I'm gonna spend a $100, I'm better spending in it on a brand ambassador doing an in store tasting versus
Stephanie [00:08:41]:
an ins
Johnna [00:08:41]:
you know, a a Instagram post.
Stephanie [00:08:43]:
Yeah. And I think too, maybe you can speak to this. I feel like the influencer world is changing, we're discovering that real influence is hard to come by and isn't always with the person with the 100,000 followers in a marketplace. Like, that maybe those micro influencers and doing an event or something that's different might have actual more influence than the gal that has, you know, 50,000 followers and hold something up, and her pretty smile just for lack of a better way of saying that. But do you know what I'm saying?
Johnna [00:09:25]:
Yeah. We're all become very savvy. I think we're very now we look at anyone who posts on and, again, it's not it's not putting anyone down, but we do look at that. I think we're all skeptical, or we know now. They're getting paid to say that. That's not you know, it doesn't feel authentic anymore. And I think too I think you're right in where the real influences, and I will say influence in as it relates to purchase for us has been in store tastings, has been, local media. So partners like you and whenever, you know, we get the opportunity to be on local media or do an interview, we see a direct correlation between that and sales.
Johnna [00:10:05]:
Events are also critical for us, not only in, obviously, you're in front of the consumer, but people word-of-mouth. Like, oh, I saw someone. They just told me to come down here. Like, these are really powerful tools that, you know, maybe to a sophisticated digital marketer, like, they may seem outdated, but they're tried and true. And for us right now, they work.
Stephanie [00:10:25]:
Well and you and I kind of I mean, originally, I think we met just through the cocktails and packaged goods in Minnesota Makers. But then, you come to the Stone Arch Festival. You come to a lot of these festivals that I program. And I try to explain to these packaged good culinary folks, and a lot of them are local and many Minnesota or Midwest made. You look at those events as an opportunity to sample, to trial, and create brand awareness. So, yes, selling your product there is awesome. And if you can get a return on your investment, that's great. That's what everybody strives for.
Stephanie [00:11:03]:
But that it's also a big marketing opportunity to get in front of so many people. And we see a lot of people that come to these events with their packages or their items and they don't sample, I'm like, oh, wow. You know, that is, like, you need to sample. Well, we just don't wanna give product away to the looky loos. It's like, well, those looky loos are also purchasers. You have to see them as the consumer that they are even though they're standing there with holding their kid's hand, who's eating a sweaty popsicle, and holding a beer. They still shop too.
Johanna [00:11:36]:
Mhmm. That's that's that's exactly it. And a lot of these events, you know, one, I I will tell you, like because we have, you know, 7, 8 different flavors. I love when people are like, can I try one of each one? I'm like, please. Yeah. Because then, like, I'm gonna upsell you on my bundle package. No. But I I do think too, like, some of these events, you know, we'll hear, well, you know, I don't wanna carry around glass right now.
Johnna [00:11:56]:
Do you have a card I can take with you? Like, where can I find you? And I really do believe that these people, they're taking a picture of our booth, that they're taking our card. It was a great interaction. They may not buy us now, but I think we're top of mind. And when they see us, you know, on shelf at France 44, like, hopefully, that's when they purchase. So
Stephanie [00:12:14]:
I was thinking about you guys recently because it seems natural with the launch of the spritz line that you might consider canned cocktails down the road. Is that something you're thinking about? Or I was even thinking about we're seeing now, like, Tattersall just launched a bunch of cocktails in a I call it a slap bag for lack of a better term. It just says the party girl in me. But the sort of canned, you miss the can, you miss the bottle, and it's just in this plastic thing that has a handle that you can carry around. You can put it on the boat. Are any of those packaging options something you guys might look at down the road or getting into the full canned cocktail?
Johnna [00:12:55]:
I think so. I think packaging, for sure. You look at other brands, mixer brands like Filthy, and right there in that bag. And it's really great for if you think about expansion into on premise and airlines. So I think for sure, packaging we would look at. In terms of ready to drink cocktails in a can, you know, the market's so saturated right now that I could see it maybe one day we've scaled and we're in thousands of doors, you know, retailers nationwide, and people want to see that from Mixley. But at this point, I think it it would just be too expensive to try to stand out in the noise. But I think that's really smart.
Stephanie [00:13:36]:
Yeah. I think that's really smart, actually. And, also, there is so many cool packaging options. Like, if you think of the Capri sun size or even if you think of the small canned, not cans, box. Small box like wine. I could just see that being a cool packaging idea for you. And, also, one of the things I love is you do have this rainbow sort of branding. And when you put all of the line together in a packaging item, it really feels like you're getting a lot.
Stephanie [00:14:05]:
I think you have the is it $45 for your do you call it your pride package?
Johnna [00:14:10]:
Rainbow package. Yeah. Okay. This month, we'll call it pride.
Stephanie [00:14:14]:
Yeah. And I always think of it as pride because I have
Johnna [00:14:16]:
to be
Stephanie [00:14:16]:
a daughter. So when I hear rainbow, like, I think, oh, okay. Right away. Yep. I thought that was a really clever way to market that because it gave you an opportunity to try all of them. Yeah. So the the jury is probably still out because the, spritz line is new. But so far, are you having fun with it? Does it feel like it was a good risk to take?
Johnna [00:14:38]:
Yeah. We are. We're having fun with it. We already flew through our 1st batch, like, what we produce, so that's great. Yep. So we're on track to, like, what we projected it to do for us, which is awesome. And, we launched it primarily as, you know, an event in kind of online product. We are in some boot in some shelves here in the Twin Cities, but we just wanted to kinda see again, like, how can we do this as a test and and do a smaller kind of more, you know, smaller launch, and then we'll see from there if it sticks with us for the long term.
Stephanie [00:15:11]:
I do love the idea of being able to have that on an airline as you're going on a trip. Like, I know Sun Country has had a good relationship with Crooked Water Spirits and our friend Heather Manley. But, like, I could see a spritzy kind of version of that and really covering all those warm weather destinations. And, well, that would be so fun, wouldn't it?
Johnna [00:15:34]:
Yes. From your lips to God's ears. Right? So, no. I agree. And that certainly I think, we know we can produce in 4 ounce bottles. We have that capability. And so, obviously, glass isn't ideal for our airlines. So back to your, you know, the packaging conversation, that's something that we're looking at and and how do we how do we break into that market? Because I agree.
Johnna [00:15:56]:
I think we've all been, you know, on a plane and wanting a good cocktail, and your mixers are pretty limited. It's, you know, a Coke, a Sprite, whatever they got, or a bloody, you know, a Bloody Mary. But, yeah.
Stephanie [00:16:08]:
Alright. So if anybody's listening, because we have a lot of fans, the Sun Country route, that would be great. And you could mix it with, they like to support local female driven companies, so that's exciting. So talk about you mentioned one of the spritzes is sort of an elderflower profile. What's the other one? It's orange. Right?
Johnna [00:16:26]:
Bitter orange cherry. So that's really, you know, reminiscent of, Aperol spritz. So, yeah. It's, it's, again, it's other it's another well balanced, mixer. And it really is just like this delightful summer sipper. And you can mix it. You don't need to add sparkling wine. You can just add, you know, soda water.
Johnna [00:16:47]:
Yep. And it still works. So, yeah.
Stephanie [00:16:49]:
Okay. So let me ask you. Are there any products or, like, packaged goods that you're using or seeing lately that you're just like and doesn't necessarily have to be food. That you're like, oh, I just love this product. It's so clever.
Johnna [00:17:09]:
Oh, the olive oil. The the, The green bottle? Yes. What is that?
Stephanie [00:17:16]:
Grossi, is it called?
Johnna [00:17:18]:
Yes. I mean, the branding, the packaging, the storytelling of the Spanish olive oil, it actually tastes good. Like, it is I'm obsessed, and that's another one too where I thought once I saw it, I go, yes. Another category that has really yet to evolve. And we're in packaging. Right? Like, I'm sure all you know, the olive oil is not all pretty equal equal. But just in terms of the design, I was like, this is so exciting.
Stephanie [00:17:46]:
And it feels super fresh and, like, you have to try it.
Johnna [00:17:51]:
Yeah.
Stephanie [00:17:51]:
Because everybody buys olive oil, but there is something about that product. And I actually haven't purchased it yet because I'm, like, the person who would be like, oh, that's just a marketing gimmick. You can because I'm just like because I'm cooking all the time. Yeah. But I do think it's super clever. And, also, when we look at, you know, who's coming back into the kitchen and learning to cook, It's a lot of millennials and date nights and kind of there's a more fun factor. And I think that olive oil has hit that right on the head. So that's a really good one.
Stephanie [00:18:20]:
I hadn't thought about that before. In town, are you, like, are you doing anything fun, or do you have any restaurants that you love? Or what do you do for fun?
Johnna [00:18:30]:
Oh my well, we you know, I will say this. For fun, I've got kiddos. So we're up Minnetonka. Minnetonka. Maynard's is, like, our standard. So if anyone from Maynard's is listening, I've been trying to get, like, Mixley on the menu. I'm like, I would love to enjoy my own mixer while I'm out here. But Sure.
Johnna [00:18:47]:
I feel like it just feels like that's the summer place out my way. But I did just eat
Stephanie [00:18:52]:
at Starling. Oh, did you
Johnna [00:18:53]:
love it? I loved it. I mean, the food was great and the cocktails were fabulous. What was so interesting is they had, some, like, cranberry Red Bull based cocktails, which I have not had. Tell about party days, vodka Red Bulls. Yeah. It's been it's been a minute since I've had that. But anyway, it was on their cocktail list and surprisingly, it was really, really quite delicious.
Stephanie [00:19:17]:
Okay. I might have to check that out because it sounds a little weird. I'm like, okay. I feel alright.
Johanna [00:19:24]:
Alright. I know. On this beautiful elevated space, we have Red Bull on the menu. I have to try it. So yeah.
Stephanie [00:19:30]:
I still feel like whenever we get something on the, like, west of Saint Louis Park I live in Golden Valley. So, you know, we're still building out kind of the scene on the west side. And there's always been a good kinda late culture party scene, but and and maybe, like, we don't maybe it's not even fine dining, but just getting something that's a step above the chains feels so welcome and so right on right now.
Johanna [00:19:58]:
Absolutely. Yeah. Like, I I mean so even like an Excelsior ley line, that's just been such a really nice addition to the Excelsior food scene. You know, I guess
Stephanie [00:20:09]:
Ivy and Hopkins is another one.
Johanna [00:20:11]:
Pink Ivy and Hopkins. Fabulous. Yeah. Amazing cocktails. And I would say to excellent food, and the value for what you get there is incredible. I love that space. Yeah.
Stephanie [00:20:21]:
Yeah. I do too. It's fun to see. And I'm excited for, the new, Grocers Table sister restaurant next door. I think that'll be fun.
Johanna [00:20:31]:
And Yeah. No. Same. That's it. And I just can't believe like, I'm so excited. You know, Lindsay has done so well with Grocer's Table. I'm excited for her to expand. Every time I go in that place, it is just buzzing.
Johanna [00:20:43]:
So I'm sure she's gonna do a great job, yeah, with the dinner concept.
Stephanie [00:20:47]:
Yeah. I think so too. Well, it's been super fun to catch up with you. I just I saw the spritz, and I thought, oh, I can't wait to talk to her about about them and why she did it the way she did it and what her thinking is. And I knew you'd have some really insightful thoughts about it. And I'm excited to try it too. I haven't tried it yet, but I promise I will.
Johanna [00:21:05]:
Okay. Well, I think I can hook you up if you need it. If you need a permit.
Stephanie [00:21:09]:
Guys soon. So Yes. Alright.
Johanna [00:21:10]:
Well, thank you, Stephanie. I appreciate it.
Stephanie [00:21:12]:
It's always fun to have you on. Thanks so much.
Johanna [00:21:14]:
Yeah. Likewise. Thanks. Bye bye. Bye.

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Lisa Steele
13 Jul· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Lisa Steele is a fifth-generation chicken keeper who shares her profound knowledge of poultry tips, egg facts, recipes, and more from her farm in Maine. Along the way Lisa has expanded her brand from taking care and raising chickens to mastering ways to use their lovely eggs. Lisa is the author of the "Fresh Eggs Daily" Cookbook, Blogger at "Coop to Kitchen" and host of the show "Welcome To My Farm."
Lisa talked about when she perfected omelets and souffles and how satisfied she felt! Having never gotten to that level of mastery, I can only say I am jealous! She has provided her recipe (see below) so you, too, can make your best omelet and savory souffles and get a taste of her delightful book. She also sent me this link from her new recipe website for another delicious version of said perfect omelet.
Gruyere and Tarragon Omelet
https://www.cooptokitchen.com/2024/06/gruyere-and-tarragon-omelet.html
Spinach Goat Cheese Omelet
This half fold omelet is bursting with flavor and one of my favorites to whip up. It seems like a lot of spinach, but the heat from the omelet will wilt it down pretty quickly.
2 eggs, room temperature
Pinch of Kosher salt
Freshly ground black pepper
1 teaspoon extra-virgin olive oil
1 tablespoon butter
2 cups fresh baby spinach
1/2 cup crumbled goat cheese, plus more for garnish
Heat a 9- or 10-inch skillet with sloped sides over high heat while you whisk the eggs with a pinch of salt in a small bowl until frothy.
Add the oil to the pan and tilt the pan to coat the bottom with the oil. Then add the butter, continuing to tilt and swirl the butter. Once the butter is melted and has stopped sizzling, pour in the eggs, and use a rubber spatula to gently move the eggs around in the pan, while continuing to tilt the pan with your other hand.
When the eggs are almost set, pile the cheese and spinach on one side of the pan, then tip the skillet and pull the egg away from the edge of the pan. Tilt the pan with the spinach and cheese closer to you and use a spatula to fold the opposite half of the egg over towards the middle, covering the filling. Slide your omelet out of the pan onto a plate.Season with additional salt and pepper, if desired, crumble some additional cheese on top and drizzle with additional oil.
Makes one omelet.
Savory Cheese Souffles
While the thought of making a souffle might be intimidating, they’re rarely found on restaurant menus, so you’re going to have to learn to make your own at some point! I find these individual souffles easier to make than a large one - and just look at it this way, what’s the worst that can happen? Your souffle will fall?
It will still taste divine. And once you’ve mastered the technique and made the perfect souffle, there’s such a sense of satisfaction. This is my standby recipe for a basic savory souffle with Parmesan cheese. It should come out light and fluffy and practically melt in your mouth if you’ve made it correctly.
Butter and cornmeal for dusting ramekins
6 fresh eggs, room temperature
1 Cup milk
1/4 Cup heavy cream
Sprig of fresh thyme
2 Tablespoons butter
1/4 cup flour
3 Tablespoons sherry
1/4 Cup fresh grated Parmesan cheese
1/2 teaspoon sea salt
Fresh ground nutmeg
1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar
Preheat oven to 375 degrees with the rack in the bottom third. Butter six eight-ounce ramekins, brushing the butter in an upward motion and dust with cornmeal. Separate the six eggs so you have three of the yolks and the six whites separated in two bowls. Save the remaining three yolks for another recipe.
Bring the milk, cream and thyme sprig to a simmer in a small saucepan over medium-low heat, stirring occasionally until the milk foams and begins to bubble. Remove from the heat. Melt the butter in a skillet over medium heat, then sprinkle in the flour, whisking constantly for about a minute until the mixture thickens.
Slowly whisk in the warm milk mixture and continue to whisk for another minute or two, until the sauce is bubbling, smooth and begins to thicken. Remove the thyme sprig, pour the liquid into a large mixing bowl and whisk in the sherry, Parmesan cheese, salt and nutmeg, then whisk in the three egg yolks. Let cool.
When the egg yolk mixture has cooled, in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with a whisk attachment, beat the egg whites and cream of tartar on low speed until foamy, then beat on high speed 1-2 minutes just until soft peaks form. The whites should still be glossy, not dry. Gently fold one-third of the egg whites into the flour/milk mixture with a rubber spatula, then carefully fold in the remaining egg whites until just combined.
Ladle the mixture into the prepared ramekins, filling each to within ¼” of the top rim, then gently smooth the top, run your thumb around the inside rim of each ramekin, place them on a rimmed baking sheet and bake for 16-18 minutes, or until puffed and golden on top. Don’t peek! Don’t open the oven until the souffles have been baking for at least 15 minutes. Serve immediately.
Note: for a higher rising souffle, you can make a collar to fit around the inside top rim of the ramekin out of parchment paper and slide it in between the egg and ramekin just before putting the souffles in the oven.
Makes 6 single-serving souffles.
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Tamron Hall & Lish Steiling
28 Jun· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
We chat with Emmy Award-winning talk show host, journalist Tamron Hall and her good friend, award-winning chef Lish Steiling about their new book, "A Confident Cook."
When Tamron Hall and Lish Steiling first met while working at the Today show, they never imagined their friendship would lead to kitchen adventures filled with laughs. In the book, “A Confident Cook” they share that same empowerment and excitement with those just beginning to cook. This book guides beginning cooks and seasoned home cooks through delicious recipes.
Pre-order the book, “A Confident Cook” now for the September 3rd release and enjoy the Baked French Toast recipe from the book.
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Jeremy Intille - Minneapolis Pastry Chef
7 Jun· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
When I first saw Jeremy Intille on the Jason Show, I knew we had to connect. He reminds me of the rock and roll pastry chef you want to see and hear what he is going to do next. He is sassy, funny, talented, and oh so sweet. Watch his segment here:
Jeremy won the first competition of the season in Episode 1 of the Food Networks, “Next Baking Master Paris,” Continuing to do very well on the show – watch episodes every Monday at 8 ct on Food Network.
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Jeremy’s specialty is visually stunning (and to-die-for) desserts. He is witty and full of personality – Jeremy’s led quite a fascinating and inspiring life, as you can read about here in a piece the Star Tribune published by my friend Sharyn Jackson.
Take a listen to the podcast and enjoy getting to know my new favorite reality TV food star.
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A Makers of Minnesota Edition
31 Mai· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
I first discovered these fantastic chocolate bonbons from my friend Laurie at the Golden Fig. They are so beautiful and equally delicious. They are the creations of local chocolatier Denny Rain from Cocoa Flake Mn.
I was delighted to gift them to ZoëBakes Newsletter in our Mother's Day edition of “Taste Buds With Stephanie.” Listen to the podcast to learn more about this talented Minnesota Maker, and watch for her chocolate shop to open this Fall in Robbinsdale.
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Bentley Gillman, head Distiller at Tattersall Distilling, forager and cocktail book author
3 Mai· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
We had a blast catching up with Bentley Gillman and talking about his new foraging cocktail book, "Cocktails in Bloom," which is available for pre-order. You can find ingredients to forage when heading into the woods or even your backyard. Bentley combines his love of the wilderness with his passion for distilling at Tattersall and making beautiful spirits, cocktails, and mocktails.
He shared a recipe with me for “Vermouth” that I tried with “Ground Ivy” or “Creeping Charlie.”
* Gather 1 cup of “Creeping Charlie”
* Add 1/4 cup sugar and macerate
* Refrigerate overnight
* Add a bottle of any variety of white wine and refrigerate for two more days
* Taste for sweetness and strain
* Use the “Vermouth” mixture for a martini or
* Makeva Spritz with 1.5 oz “Vermouth” to 3-4 oz sparkling water
Another recipe he mentioned in the podcast is his “Dandelion and Spruce Tonic” Recipe from the book. Pre-order now and get a custom bandanna for your own foraging adventures!
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Ingredients:
* 1/2 cup Spruce Tips
* 5g dried (or 25g fresh) dandelion root
* 1 cup water
* 2 cups sugar
* 1 stalk chopped lemongrass
* 2 limes, zested and juiced
Instructions:
Simmer water, sugar, dandelion root, and lemongrass until sugar is dissolved. Remove from heat, stir in lime zest, and allow to cool. Strain into a jar, add lime juice, and stir.
For a cocktail: Mix 1 ounce of tonic syrup with 1 1/2 ounces of gin. Pour over ice and add 4 ounces of soda water. Garnish with spruce tips and a squeeze of lime.
For a Mocktail: Mix 1 ounce of syrup with 3 ounces of cold brew. Pour over ice and add 2 ounces of soda water. Garnish with an orange.
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A Makers of Minnesota Edition
19 Apr· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
It was really fun to catch up with Dana Thompson, formerly co-creator of Minneapolis’s Owamni. and now founder of a new hemp-derived, low-dose THC/CBD cannabis seltzer featuring the Indigenous botanicals of North America called Heti.
“I am thrilled to announce the launch of Heti, a line of new botanical beverages that celebrate the plants around us,” said Thompson. Heti is launching four flavors—River Path, Woodland Edge, Meadow Cat Nap, and Marshland Harvest—which can also be purchased in a starter pack. Highlighted flavors include cranberry, sumac, dandelion, cedar, rosehip, wild mint, and black currant. The beverages are sweetened naturally with honey, maple, and agave.
Heti beverages are now available for preorder at hetiproducts.com.
Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe
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Makers of Minnesota Edition
19 Apr· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
It was really fun to catch up with Dana Thompson, formerly co-creator of Minneapolis’s Owamni. and now founder of a new hemp-derived, low-dose THC/CBD cannabis seltzer featuring the Indigenous botanicals of North America called Heti.
“I am thrilled to announce the launch of Heti, a line of new botanical beverages that celebrate the plants around us,” said Thompson. Heti is launching four flavors—River Path, Woodland Edge, Meadow Cat Nap, and Marshland Harvest—which can also be purchased in a starter pack. Highlighted flavors include cranberry, sumac, dandelion, cedar, rosehip, wild mint, and black currant. The beverages are sweetened naturally with honey, maple, and agave.
Heti beverages are available for preorder now at hetiproducts.com.
Last week, my friend Joy Summers wrote about Heti in the Star Tribune. I gifted this link so you can read their conversation here:
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Jon Kung
5 Apr· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Jon Kung grew up as a “third-culture” kid: born in Los Angeles, raised in Hong Kong and Toronto, and now living in Detroit. When the pandemic shut down his immensely popular pop-up, he turned to social media as a creative way to teach and inspire. With over 1.7 million followers on TikTok and over 550,000 on YouTube, his logical next step was a cookbook, and Jon Kung’s “Kung Food” is here.
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Dan Pashman, host of "The Sporkful" podcast is coming to the Twin Cities
15 Mär· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Dan Pashman has accomplished many things. Podcast host of the food podcast “The Sporkful,” pasta shape creator of Cascatelli that Time magazine named the best invention of the year. Now, he is going on the road with the Cascatelli story and his new cookbook, “Anything’s Pastable.”
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As a companion to the cookbook, he is hosting a live podcast he has deemed Mission: ImPASTAble, which tells the inside story of the cookbook's making. From the highs and lows of recipe testing to a research trip across Italy to the agonizing decisions over the design of the cover, by the end, you’ll never look at a cookbook the same way again.
Join Dan Pashman in conversation with local James Beard Award winner and restauranteur Ann Kim at The Amsterdam Bar on 3/24 at 6:30 pm.
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Tim Niver talks with us about the hospitalilty industry in the Twin Cities
8 Mär· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Tim started a podcast called Niver Niver Land, where he talks with other restaurant owners and compares notes on the state of the state, amongst rising food and labor costs.
We caught up with Tim Niver to get his thoughts on the state of the state after reading a New York Times article in which 30 top chefs shared their opinions on the current restaurant scene (the article is unlocked here).
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Snack Media Group
16 Feb· Dishing with Stephanie's Dish
Did you see this video from Billy’s Sushi pop up on your Instagram feed around Valentines Day? I did. And I knew it was the work of my “Dishing With Stephanies Dish” latest podcast guest, Hector Cortes, CEO of Snack Media Group.
It was really fun connecting with Hector a few weeks back to talk about social media trends and how video content creators are changing the media landscape for small businesses in the age of TikTok and Reels.
Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Did you see this employment video from Deans Home Services that featured some of the most recognizable Twin Cities small business founders? It’s unlike any recruitment video you have seen before.
Here is his Hector’s latest video that explains one of the strategies his content creators are utilizing to help Twin Cities businesses get a leg up in the world of social media.
Listen to the Podcast and hear more about how social media is changing the way we consume marketing messages and what curious content creators are doing to stand out in a crowded field. I loved hearing Hector’s point of view and think their team is doing some really fun social media marketing for some of my favorite local businesses.

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