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A food systems policy expert and social impact entrepreneur, Deb Eschmeyer has dedicated her career to the betterment of society. From co-founding the national nonprofit Food Corps, to serving as Executive Director of Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move!” initiative, and driving change in the food industry, her efforts have permanently influenced the way we think about food and health. In this episode, Deb shares her journey as a changemaker emphasizing agility and persistence, finding your “zone of genius”, and balancing perspectives and patience to achieve long-term change.
Deb Eschmeyer: “Don't take no for an answer and just keep pushing and speaking up and showing up. And it’s sometimes really uncomfortable. There's so many people who don't like public speaking. There's so many people who are brilliant and just have fabulous ideas… Speak up, show up, and develop lines of empathy. To be a better change maker is to understand all the different avenues of change it takes to get things done.”
00:00 Intro to Deb
01:44 From farmhouse to the White House: be relentless, speak up, show up
06:30 How empathy and a diverse set of experiences can help you find your “zone of genius”
09:21 Why school nutrition reform can spark system-wide change
13:03 Focusing on the long view and the direction of travel
15:35 Embracing collective responsibility to drive meaningful systems change
18:20 Complexity and the impending food crisis
21:01 Why trust, accountability, and collaboration are key to impactful change
25:10 Deb’s advice: embrace uncomfortable spaces, focus on your strengths, and keep pushing forward
28:25 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
FoodCorpsLet's Move! InitiativeAmeriCorpsASU Swette Center for Sustainable Food SystemsHealthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010Keep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Olivia Thomas is a registered dietitian, entrepreneur, and the co-founder of “Rewire Health”, a culinary medicine platform that simplifies healthy home cooking and expands access to teaching kitchens. In this episode, Olivia shares her experiences building a culinary medicine startup, including how active listening and a multidisciplinary approach can lead to impact-focused solutions.
Olivia Thomas: “We need to be focusing on how resources, especially within food as medicine, can be used to reinvest into disinvested communities... I have been redefining how I work on projects based on the impacts. What foods am I marketing? Who is it benefiting? How is the data being used? And the idea of sovereignty is important and making sure that it aligns with the communities we're focusing on and working with.”
00:00 Intro to Olivia
01:09 From childhood cooking to culinary medicine
02:13 How food-based interventions help manage chronic disease
04:50 Overview of Rewire Health from pitch to startup
07:58 Cultivating a culinary medicine platform
09:49 Enabling personally relevant food choices
11:22 Investing in local communities to impact the whole food system
12:30 Embracing change and using technology to stay ahead
14:24 Why navigating complex systems requires a multidimensional approach
17:00 The role of collaboration and community building
18:14 Using culturally affirming recipes to empower choice
20:51 Accelerating behavior change with personalization, practice, and insight
23:37 Shifting perspectives on the role of food’s impact on health
25:44 Creating sustainable habits
28:15 Redefining problem-solving
29:23 How active listening builds trust and drives impact
30:13 Looking towards the future of culinary medicine
32:23 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Rewire HealthPursuit AppBoston Medical Center’s Teaching KitchenThe Teaching Kitchen CollaborativeCorbin Hill Food ProjectBoston Medical Center: Eat to TreatKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Jack Bobo is the Director of the University of Nottingham’s Food Systems Institute which brings together transdisciplinary researchers to address some of the most pressing food systems challenges. He is also the author of the 2021 book “Why smart people make bad food choices.” In this episode, Jack shares how breaking down silos can foster collaboration, why reframing your thinking can help navigate tradeoffs, and how small shifts in language can impact people’s perceptions.
Jack Bobo: “I believe less in right and wrong and good and bad, and more in thinking in terms of choices and consequences. And if you can help to lay out the consequences of actions, I think in many ways you can lead people to knowledge instead of sort of beating them up with science. Researchers and academics love to tell people what to do and they like to tell them the answer. I think it's much better to be able to help people to understand the consequences of different choices. And then you may end up getting a different outcome, but at least they understand the consequences of it and it's an informed decision.”
00:00 Intro to Jack
01:14 Overview of the University of Nottingham’s Food Systems Institute
03:44 Taking a systems approach to lead global change
05:18 Why consensus is important for problem solving
06:45 Addressing the “language barrier” in food systems solutions
08:38 How shifting from “should” to “could” focuses on opportunities and solutions
11:40 Leading people to knowledge by framing the consequences of choices
13:56 Building trust by understanding confirmation bias and the misleading nature of our brains
17:38 The paradox of improved nutrition research and rising obesity rates
20:00 How to overcome the invisible influences on food choices
23:14 Changing the food system by focusing on social norms
25:51 The importance of word choice for effective change making
27:59 Why networking and storytelling are life skills
29:39 Balancing the continuum of local vs. global sustainability
31:37 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
University of Nottingham Food Systems InstituteThe Nature ConservancyBook: Why smart people make bad food choicesTEDx: Why We Fear the Food We EatFuturity FoodKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Salaam Bhatti is the SNAP Director at the Food Research and Action Center, a 501(c)(3) that uses advocacy and strategic partnerships to improve the health and well-being of people struggling against poverty-related hunger in the United States. Tune in to learn how to bring together diverse perspectives, challenge established norms, and seek innovative solutions for modern society.
Salaam Bhatti: “The best way to find change is to go out and find like-minded people. Create a coalition to make that change happen. But if you want to perfect that, then you have to find people who disagree so that you can really understand why you believe what you believe. And maybe there are things that just need education, that just need more facts to help bring them to your side. Or maybe you were wrong and you can come to a compromise or an agreement. But until you get out of your comfort zone, the change you will try to make will only be fleeting and never systemic.”
00:00 Intro to Salaam
01:25 From law to public benefit activism
04:50 How sparking joy drives passion in food justice
06:09 Addressing food insecurity for an equitable food system
08:20 How zoning and economic inequalities exacerbate food insecurity
10:55 Why building strategic alliances can bridge divides to pass policy reform
14:28 Exploring the ripple effects of SNAP program changes on the economy
18:00 Overview of the Food Research and Action Center
19:14 Addressing poverty related hunger solutions and challenges
21:20 How choice and increased access improves health outcomes
26:17 Reimagining food policy for modern needs
28:22 Why getting out of your comfort zone can lead to systemic change
31:11 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Food Research Action Center (FRAC)Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)Report: Household Food Security in the United States in 2022Quantifying the Impact of SNAP Benefits on the US Economy and JobsKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Dr. Christopher Gardner is a nutrition scientist focused on what foods to eat and what foods to avoid for optimal health, as well as the forces that can successfully motivate people to improve their food and beverage behaviors. His recent research interests include: “stealth nutrition,” which focuses on shifting diets through the integration of non-health related approaches, like the connection between food and climate change; institutional food; and the microbiome.
Christopher Gardner: “I would say the biggest thing for me is humility. I am a nutrition scientist. I understand the mechanism. You should eat that. [But] there is the business aspect, the marketing aspect, the legal aspect, the policy aspect, the cultural aspect, the historical aspect, the storytelling aspect… The humility to recognize how many other disciplines and factors are tugging at people's tongues and hearts and brains, has really been the greatest learning experience for me.”
00:00 Intro to Dr. Gardner
01:03 How nutrition research becomes a Netflix documentary
04:22 Using humor to inspire retention
06:09 The road from philosophy to nutrition science
07:20 The dissonance with access to nutrition information
09:21 Food & Society: External motivators and behavior change
14:51 Why institutions have a powerful role in food systems transformation
16:55 The "instead of what" and "with what" approach to behavior change
21:26 The complex nature of food choice
25:50 How “stealth nutrition” influences choice
29:34 Embracing humility and creative storytelling in science communication
32:18 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Stanford School of Medicine Nutrition Studies Research GroupNetflix Documentary - You Are What You EatThe Game Changers DocumentaryCardiometabolic Effects of Omnivorous vs Vegan Diets in Identical Twins A Randomized Clinical TrialMichael Pollan’s Omnivore Dilemma Barbara Kingsolver’s Animal, Vegetable, MiracleEric Schlosser's Fast Food NationMarian Nestle's Food PoliticsCIA’s Greg Drescher on Using Deliciousness to Drive Change | Food Lab Talk Episode 13
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Wendy Lopez and Jessica Jones are nationally recognized Registered Dietitians and Certified Diabetes Educators. They are the founders of Food Heaven – a multimedia platform originally founded for women and communities of color experiencing barriers to food, healthcare and nutrition education - and the newly launched Diabetes Digital - a trusted source for virtual personalized nutrition counseling dedicated to diabetes and prediabetes. In their highly successful podcast, videos, books and more, they dive deep into health and wellness topics with a lens on inclusivity and cultural competency.
Wendy Lopez: “Needs vary based on what community you're talking about, what country you're in, what neighborhood you're in. Talking to the people that are impacted the most by the food system to learn more about what their needs are, what they would want out of a food system, is really important because they're the main stakeholders.”
Jessica Jones: “It's also making sure that people have access not only to health promoting foods, but also culturally relevant foods. Because so often people want to come into communities and say, you should be doing this, or, these are the foods that are helpful. And it's like one list. But it's more effective, and we've seen this firsthand, trying to incorporate foods that people enjoy that are part of their cultures and not demonizing those foods.”
00:12 Intro to Wendy and Jess
01:55 The evolution of Food Heaven to Diabetes Digital
03:46 How prioritizing cultural relevance builds inclusive, sustainable food systems
06:35 Celebrating diversity to reduce stigma and shame
08:09 Socioeconomic and cultural factors influence on choice
10:42 Improving access to healthy, sustainable foods
12:50 Building trust through science and lived experiences
15:01 How motivational interviewing balances nutrition advice and personal preferences
18:11 Embracing life’s fluctuations
21:08 Why growing a diverse support community can enhance impact
24:14 The importance of embracing “fun” in business development
26:47 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Food HeavenDiabetes DigitalDiabetes Digital PodcastMotivational Interviewing: An Evidence-Based Approach
Keep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Clancy Cash Harrison is a food equity advocate, registered dietitian, TEDx speaker, and international thought leader who challenges the way food insecurity is approached and discussed. Her mission to demolish the stigma around food access places her on the cutting edge of advocacy. Clancy is the founder of the Food Dignity® Movement, a strategic program for leaders who want to shift how they approach nutrition outreach by making healthy food access a priority.
Clancy Cash Harrison: “How can we create solutions that work? First, I had to be humble enough to say I was wrong. One of the questions I started asking myself is, where am I wrong so I can be right? Now we have our volunteers asking the same question. What are we here to learn today from the people that we're working with?”
00:24 Intro to Clancy
01:49 How uncovering personal bias began the Food Dignity Movement
04:56 Breaking down silos to collaboration
07:32 Defining hidden hunger
09:04 Why changemakers should adapt solutions to each unique audience
11:33 Creating solutions that work: “Where am I wrong so I can be right?”
14:19 Taking hunger out of the charity box
16:30 Driving systems change through local agriculture
17:41 How to use skepticism and appreciation to fuel changemaking
19:10 The material impact of one $8,000 walk in cooler
21:23 People are the experts in their life
22:50 Uncovering the “why” instead of judging food choices
25:16 How admitting what you don’t know can fuel personal growth
27:46 Call to action: find the cracks and be the glue
29:17 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Food Dignity MovementClancy’s TEDxFood Dignity Movement Podcast Food Dignity Challenge Food Dignity DocumentaryKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Dr. Walter Willett is a physician and Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He also co-chairs the EAT-Lancet Commission, a group of 37 world-leading scientists working to determine how to provide a healthy diet for a future population of 10 billion people while respecting planetary boundaries. Dr. Willet’s career has centered on the development of methods to study the effects of diet on the occurrence of major diseases. His research has provided unparalleled insight into the long-term health consequences of our food choices.
Walter Willett: “Look at where you are and start off working there. Ultimately at a much larger scale, you'd like to have an impact. But if you don't have control of the dials and the levers at that level, your own food service and wherever you happen to be working or studying can often be improved a lot, and you learn a lot from that experience. I certainly have. Almost everybody has part of their life in a workplace or in their community that they could be making some improvements. And a lot of times that's where the biggest changes start.”
00:22 Intro to Walter
02:43 Connecting human health and the climate crisis
04:24 The Great Acceleration Theory
06:29 Three pillars for food systems transformation
08:47 Harnessing community action to catalyze systems change
10:30 The history of our food choices and related complexity of shifting diets
13:31 Levers to positively influence population diet quality
16:21 What global consumption habits tell us about public health trends
18:02 Lessons from effective grassroots movements
20:50 Building trust, providing better data, and acknowledging uncertainty
24:01 Integrating justice into food systems solutions
26:37 Generational awareness and action on sustainability
28:28 Embracing disciplinary diversity for systems transformation
29:36 Why patience is the #1 skill for change management
31:40 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
The EAT-Lancet Commission on Food, Planet, HealthThe Great Acceleration TheoryScientific Review: Food in the Anthropocene: the EAT–Lancet Commission on healthy diets from sustainable food systemsSummary Report: EAT-Lancet Commission Summary Report (includes Five Strategies for a Great Food Transformation)Research Article: Improvements In US Diet Helped Reduce Disease Burden And Lower Premature Deaths, 1999–2012; But Overall Diet Remains PoorVideo: What is a healthy and sustainable diet? The EAT-Lancet Lecture - Johan Rockström & Walter Willett
EAT-Lancet 2.0Keep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Sara Burnett has more than 18 years experience developing brand-building strategies and campaigns. As Vice President of Food Beliefs, Sustainability & Public Relations at Panera Bread, Sara was responsible for the company’s policies on food issues ranging from sustainability to food additives. She also provided menu labeling and education to inform customer choice. Throughout her career, Sara expertly blends her communication skills with a deep understanding of policy, social responsibility, and sustainability, authoring, and managing bold ESG strategies. She is currently the Principal at Burnett Strategy and Communications.
Sara Burnett: “As food professionals, we can all find a way to convince ourselves that we're not part of the problem and we're not part of the solution. And we see it on both ends of the spectrum. When you're at a big food company, you're saying, oh man, it's hard to move this behemoth of an organization... [On] the small side of things, you might say, my voice isn't that big. But the reality is it is a very complicated and connected food system, and there is a role for everyone. So whether you're small or big, you're private or public, you're an NGO or a government… [we] all have an impact, and collectively we can do a lot more together.”
00:27 Intro to Sara
01:27 Sara’s career shift from health and wellness to sustainability
03:05 Collective action and impact: critical elements to a truly sustainable food system
05:15 Coolfood menu labeling to nudge better-for-you choice
07:54 How post-purchase education influences future decisions
10:25 The surprising indirect impacts of calorie menu labeling
14:06 Building trust with customers by working with credible partners
17:04 The levers to support choice: transparency, demonstrating material impact, pursuing authentic solutions
19:40 Merging emotion and science for successful change management
23:20 Why a clear business plan can support resiliency and longevity for sustainability professionals
26:56 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Panera Food BeliefsWRI’s CoolfoodCoolfood Menu Labeling at PaneraHowGoodJanet Ranganathan Food Lab Talk EpisodeKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Ravi Dhar is the George Rogers Clark Professor of Management and Marketing and director of the Center for Customer Insights at the Yale School of Management. He is an expert in behavior and branding who brings psychological insights to the study of consumer decision-making. Ravi’s research investigates fundamental aspects about the formation of our choices and preferences. His 4Ps Framework for Behavior Change outlines evidence-based “nudges” that can help make healthy choices easier, aligning behaviors with intentions.
Ravi Dhar: “This notion that providing information leads to better choices – there's very limited evidence for that. Providing information doesn't work because of information overload and because of distraction. It will not get their attention. That's where the researcher has to come in and say, when are people most receptive to this information? And that may not be at the moment of choice. It may be at other moments when they have a little bit more free time and they get this information.”
00:22 Intro to Ravi
01:36 Translating business challenges into research questions
03:36 Understanding what meta preferences reveal about consumer behavior
07:33 Three factors that might sabotage our choices
11:25 What, how, and when to provide information
15:20 Persuasion: “Making it fun”
18:35 Process: “Making it easy”
19:51 Possibilities: “Choice architecture”
21:11 Person: “Cost of delaying”
22:54 Understanding the reasonable reasons why people do what they do
26:09 Differentiating between fact-based and feeling-based choices
27:58 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Center for Customer Insights at the Yale School of ManagementWhy Choosing Healthy Foods is Hard, and How to Help: Presenting the 4Ps Framework for Behavior ChangeMaking Sustainable Choices PossibleGetting Sustainability to Stick: Driving Long-term Habits in ConsumersUnpacking the Climate Change Communication ChallengeChallenging Assumptions: The Theory of Choice and ControlHow We Buy When Time Is ShortHow Much Are Millennial Engaged in Retirement Annuities?Keep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Janet Ranganathan is the Managing Director and Executive Vice President for Strategy, Learning and Results at World Resources Institute (WRI), a global research organization that addresses the urgent sustainability challenges related to food, forests, water, climate, energy, cities and the ocean. She leads the development and execution of WRI’s five-year strategy and oversees WRI’s Research Integrity, Managing for Results, and Data Lab teams.
Janet Ranganathan: “One of the most important lessons I've learned is you can't do anything on your own. You have to do everything together through partnerships and collaborations. You know, if you wanna go far, take many people with you, but don't expect to get there too fast. If you wanna go fast, go alone, but don't expect to get very far. So true.”
00:25 Intro to Janet
01:21 30 years of changemaking
02:02 WRI’s method for impact: Count it. Change it. Scale it.
03:48 Feeding people, addressing climate, protecting land
05:54 Produce, protect, reduce, restore
07:03 A production and consumption problem
07:52 Education to enable change
09:44 Empowering food companies
12:06 Overview of the Shift Wheel
15:32 How the Cool Food Pledge put the Shift Wheel into practice
17:50 From outputs to outcomes to impact
20:40 How WRI connects food and climate change
21:44 Establishing collaborative partnerships for long term success
23:12 Design and act for impact
25:02 Learning from the past to inform the future
27:15 Urgency as a motivator
28:22 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
WRI Report: Creating a Sustainable Food FutureWRI Shift Wheel FrameworkCool Food PledgeWRI Greenhouse Gas ProtocolWRI Strategic Plan 2023-27Keep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Michiel Bakker: “Over the course of this season, we’ve explored why we need to shift diets, the many ways of doing that, and identified some of the things that need to happen on a systems level to make these changes sustainable and inclusive.
This time of year is often one of reflection and gratitude. As I reflect on all the incredible conversations from Season 2, I must admit I am truly inspired by all the changemakers who are stepping up and getting things done. This is what it takes to make a tangible, positive impact.
I also want to express my gratitude to you, for listening to the first year of Food Lab Talk. I truly appreciate your support of the show and its community of changemakers. Thank you.
We’ll be back in the new year with more episodes of Food Lab Talk. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for updates on our next season, which is all about enabling individuals to make informed, and personally relevant food choices.
For now, I invite you to keep pursuing your own bold vision for food systems transformation. Imagine what that would look like. Believe in yourself, because you can make a difference. And, most importantly of all, Act! I hope that you have a joyful holiday season and a bright new year.”
Keep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Chef Ann Cooper is a celebrated author, educator, and enduring advocate for better food for all children. She has been a relentless champion of school food reform for improved child nutrition. Known as the “Renegade Lunch Lady,“ Chef Ann founded the Chef Ann Foundation in 2009, a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping schools take action so that every child has daily access to fresh, healthy food.
Chef Ann Cooper: “In the beginning, I just kind of thought, I know what's right. This is what I want to do. I'm going to push, I'm going to push, and I'm going to push and yell and scream and jump up and down and people will listen. And I think maybe, you know, 25 years ago, there was a place for that, but I've come to learn that system change has to be really inclusive. It has to be collaborative. Doesn't mean I can't jump up and down and yell and scream, but I have to listen as much as I yell and I have to bring everyone to the table. And when you do that, it's maybe slower, but then this change becomes more sustainable and more people come under the umbrella.”
00:20 Intro to Chef Ann
01:14 How a digital lunch box could change the world
04:02 The role of parents, educators, farmers in school food reform
04:50 From renegade to mainstream
06:42 Why collaboration is essential to sustainable systems change
09:10 Pushing from the inside vs. hammering on the outside
10:16 Future opportunities for shifting school foodservice operations
12:05 Working on a continuum to evaluate partners and focus efforts
13:55 The catalyst for change comes from within
15:04 Levers for changemaking: food, finance, facilities, human resources, marketing
17:02 Shedding light on the nuanced school food rules and regulations
19:26 Changing behavior through ownership and education
21:14 The two things that would change everything: free school meals for all and higher reimbursement rates
22:21 What partners, policy, and patience have to do with changemaking
24:43 How to become a leader and changemaker
26:59 Reflections from founding and scaling a social impact organization
31:13 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Chef Ann FoundationFood Lab Talk Episode: Stephen RitzFood CorpsUSDA School Meal StandardsKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Chef Joseph Yoon is an Edible Insect Ambassador, a world renowned thought leader in entomophagy, the practice of eating insects. He founded Brooklyn Bugs in 2017 to normalize edible insects through delicious, creative, and educational programming. From kitchens and classrooms to stages around the world, Chef Yoon shares the incredible potential of not only edible insects, but the burgeoning innovation in Insect Agriculture to create resilient solutions for our global food systems.
Joseph Yoon: “One of the ways is not to take it from a theoretical dogmatic approach of... ‘We have a sustainable nutrient dense food. It will solve the climate crisis. All we have to do is eat some bugs, friends.’ That would not work. And I think that that's what a lot of the scientists were actually doing. My approach was entirely from the opposite side. ‘We have this delicious, incredible food source that happens to also be sustainable, incredibly nutrient dense, and we can prepare any single dish you can possibly imagine with it.’ The only limitations with insect protein lie with our imagination.”
00:23 Intro to Joseph
01:10 Bugs and sustainable nutrition
02:13 Metamorphosis from fine dining to food justice
04:42 Exploring the wide variety of flavors and functions of edible insects
06:10 Shifting negative thoughts to acceptance and celebration
08:10 Changing our food system is like interdisciplinary calculus
10:42 Regenerative circular nature of insect agriculture
13:18 Following the data to find scalable solutions
15:37 “Bugifying” familiar foods to connect with people
19:28 Balancing marketing, education, and regulations
23:06 Importance of regulatory frameworks, policies, and incentives
24:57 Insect agriculture to improve livelihood
26:16 Elevating the deliciousness of edible insects
29:38 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Brooklyn BugsFAO Report: Edible Insects Future Prospects for Food and Feed SecurityInternational Fund for Agriculture DevelopmentKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Bernhard Kowatsch is founder and head of the Innovation Accelerator at the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP), the world's largest social impact incubator dedicated to ending hunger worldwide. The Innovation Accelerator offers 15 annual programs to the broader ecosystem on multiple social impact and sustainability issues, such as hunger, climate change, primary healthcare, gender equality, and emergency response. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Bernhard about how tech solutions can support shifting diets, the importance of centering lived experiences in the change-making journey, and how to balance risk-taking and acute needs to fulfill a long-term vision.
Bernhard Kowatsch: “What I would advise my younger self is to really embrace risk taking and not worry as much. There's inherent risk in so many aspects of entrepreneurial or intrapreneurial decision making. And sometimes, that may mean that you're taking risks that are really, really feeling uncomfortable. However, if you're working hard, if you're smart, if you're working with the right people, if you have the right partners, if you're looking for advice... I think there's so much impact that you can make. Just try it out. Make experiments if you don't know what the right solution is. Take one step at a time.”
00:46 Intro to Bernhard
02:30 Overview of the WFP and Innovation Accelerator
03:59 How the WFP helps close the impact-making gap
06:05 Co-benefits of the WFP Innovation Accelerator
08:04 Using blockchain technology in times of crisis
10:33 An open innovation approach to solve hunger
13:30 Why technology can support sustainable food systems
14:41 Balancing the tension between risk, rapid innovation and known solutions
16:54 Investing in a combination of solutions to support long-term strategy and acute needs
19:09 Ancestral Markets: preserving knowledge and heritage of food
21:17 Fenik Cool Box: extending shelf life of fresh produce
22:44 H2Grow: growing food in impossible places
25:05 Adapting known solutions through community-driven problem-solving
26:50 Do we need another accelerator?
29:17 Embrace risk-taking and worry less
31:18 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
WFP Innovation Accelerator World Food Programme Innovation Accelerator ProgramsNilusBuilding BlocksAncestral MarketsFenik Cool BoxH2GrowKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Eve Turow-Paul is an author, globally-recognized thought leader, and the founder and Executive Director of Food for Climate League (FCL). FCL is a nonprofit that is on a mission to democratize sustainable eating and empower action towards climate-smart eating through campaigns, toolkits and behavioral design interventions. By facilitating a deeper understanding of how people think and make decisions, FCL creates narratives and implementation strategies that reframe climate-smart eating as enticing, accessible, and culturally-relevant. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Eve about the complex nature of behavior change, the hidden drivers influencing food choices, and the importance of listening to and learning from the community to drive lasting change.
Eve Turow-Paul: “[There’s] this myth that most people don't care about the climate crisis. No, the vast majority of people care. That doesn't mean that it's driving their everyday decisions because we have record high rates of loneliness, stress, depression, anxiety. There are so many other immediate things that are shaping our decisions. Sometimes it's cost, sometimes it's availability, sometimes it's just comfort. You have to be able to paint people a picture of the eventual benefits. Most of the work we [at FCL] do is focusing on the ‘here and now’ including how we make [shifting behavior] something that is related to someone's own personal identity and their immediate needs and values. It's kind of like an added benefit of, oh, and by the way, it's also good for the environment.”
00:16 Intro to Eve
00:49 Understanding how stress, anxiety, & depression influence food behaviors
03:04 The impact of the market research intention-action gap
04:14 Why research is essential to bending food culture in a more sustainable direction
05:28 Co-developing narratives to build trust
07:20 Untangling the complexities of food- and environment-related narratives
09:01 Linking narratives to Self-Determination Theory and Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs
13:10 Myths and false stories hinder consumer choice and business decisions
14:23 Freedom of choice and unifying truths in a world of polarization
18:59 How human experience influences motivation to change
20:35 The tension between instant gratification and long term ramifications
23:06 Case study: Embracing plant-forward foods in workplace cafeterias
27:44 Creating change by peeling layers of the “onion”
29:48 Perception and behavior: Why narrative isn’t the only tool
33:18 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Food for Climate LeagueDorothy Shaver Lisa FeldmanSelf-Determination TheoryToolkit: How to talk about food & climateAdditional ResourcesKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Wadhwani Institute for Artificial Intelligence (Wadhwani AI) has been actively building and deploying AI solutions for underserved populations in developing countries since 2021. As a Google.org recipient, they are using AI to bring the world’s agricultural expertise to every farmer, protecting critical crops and mitigating the threat of hunger for billions of people. On this special episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Aditya Nayan and Soma Dhavala from Wadhwani AI to discuss the importance of understanding the audience and building trust when implementing novel programs, demonstrating value before scaling, and “open sourcing” innovation to open the door for other changemakers.
Wadhwani AI: “We're always inclined to think, okay, what is the specific problem statement that you're solving, how you're solving it and all that. But we're obligated to look at the larger system and see the value. So even in the case of CottonAce, there is as much value in that farmer getting the advisory as there is that the ministry can get a sense that this is the kind of infestation that's happening in these places and I can know that in real time. That's a starting point so that a year, two years down the line, I can create a predictive system which will help me prepare better. That's something that we didn't know in 2019 when we won the Google AI Impact Challenge. We didn't know this part of it. So it's this system thinking that where innovation also has to go and how things that we do maybe on the field, how they plug back in into the larger system is very important.” - Aditya Nayan
01:11 Intro to Wadhwani AI
03:36 How AI can add value in a rural environment
05:22 Why education is critical to adoption of novel technologies
06:19 How smartphones make AI and data accessible
07:17 Proof of concept with CottonAce
09:59 Scaling CottonAce principles to more crops
10:54 Building trust in technology through community engagement
12:35 Considering reliability and safety when developing new technologies
13:12 Open sourcing and “open syncing” for datasets, models, and innovation
15:20 Data is relative - how to determine impact
17:15 Measuring direct impact vs. indirect network effects
19:47 Why systems thinking is important for problem-solving
22:07 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
AI for the Global GoalsWadhwani AICottonAce SolutionHow Farmers Are Using AI in the Field
Keep in TouchSubscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Devon is the Vice President, Food Initiative, at the Rockefeller Foundation. Devon oversees the Good Food Strategy in the United States, working to advance a more nourishing, regenerative and equitable domestic food system. In this role, she collaborates with stakeholders across the food system to increase consumption of healthy, sustainably produced foods in underserved communities. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Devon about the complexity of systems change, the importance of engaging with a variety of people and perspectives, and why nutrition education isn’t the only tool for shifting diets.
Devon Klatell: “I think we get a little lost thinking that we all can go from the same A to B when talking about shifting diets. I think nutrition education is a really important tool in shifting diets and it's not enough. So let's educate them, but let's also make sure that they can afford to buy the foods that you're recommending that they eat. Let's also make sure that those foods are available to them in a place that they can get to in their busy day. That they have the transportation to access. Let's make sure that they're culturally appropriate. Let's make sure that our policy framework supports growing and producing those foods just as much as it supports growing and producing other foods. One of the big mistakes we've made in the past around shifting diets is being overly focused on one solution.”
00:10 Intro to Devon
01:10 From late night food shows to shifting food systems
05:28 Why we need to talk about multiple food systems at different scales
07:35 Unintended consequences of food system complexities
09:19 Making opportunity universal and sustainable
11:12 How the health impacts of the food system carry a $1T price tag
14:32 Why we cannot ignore the scale of the problem
16:44 Shifting the focus of healthcare to nutrition
18:41 Personalizing the path to shift diets
21:13 Systems change as a “yes, and” exercise
22:46 Shifting diets vs shifting lifestyles
25:14 Balancing food as medicine and joy of food
27:59 Using healthcare resources to lower barriers to healthy eating
30:24 Theory of Change: How Rockefeller Foundation is making invisible problems visible
35:13 Why it's important to invite skeptics to your table
37:22 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Rockefeller FoundationGood Food Strategy: USATrue Cost of Food ReportRockefeller Food is MedicineGlobal Energy Alliance for People and PlanetKeep in Touch
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Stephen Ritz is an educator and the founder of Green Bronx Machine, a non-profit that builds healthy, equitable, and resilient communities. Using a school-based model, the Green Bronx Machine is inspiring healthy students and healthy schools through inspired education, local food systems, and 21st Century workforce development. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Stephen about the importance of listening, how passion and authenticity can inspire change, and the power of a supportive community to push you in the right direction.
Stephen Ritz: “This work is hard and it requires a lot of courage, to be sure. But the opposite of courage isn't cowardice. The opposite of courage is conformity, because even a dead fish can go with the flow. And I am no dead fish. I'm gonna swim. You're gonna swim. We're gonna keep getting upstream until we spawn. And I find those amazing people and those amazing opportunities that just give me one more hop. That's what it's all about. For far too long, people have gotten fat off the dysfunction of communities like mine. Many people are well intended. But they are thriving while our community is barely surviving. And we need to flip that script and flip that ownership.”
0:43 Intro to Stephen
1:33 What a cheese hat has to do with the fight for equity
2:49 How onions inspired the start of Green Bronx Machine
10:01 Green Bronx Machine’s mission: equity and access
11:03 Food as the most important school supply
12:31 Fighting for the underdog: the students
14:01 Courage and swimming upstream
14:47 Get started, show up, and be consistent
16:03 Building courage by finding your community
17:25 Inspiring long-term habits through early exposure
19:35 Secret ingredients for win-win partnerships
21:38 Sparking real change through policy and grassroots engagement
23:25 Examples of purpose-driven companies
25:02 Nail it before you scale it
27:48 Creating the next generation of heroes
28:48 Advice: don’t settle, don’t compromise
30:46 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
Green Bronx MachineNewman’s OwnWhole Kids FoundationBe Your Own Hero CampaignKeep in Touch
Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com
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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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Paul Newnham is the Executive Director of SDG2 Advocacy Hub, which coordinates global campaigns and advocacy to achieve Sustainable Development Goal 2: To end hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition, and promote sustainable agriculture by 2030. To help transform food systems, Paul and his team are leading projects such as the “Beans is How” campaign, which promotes the nutritional, environmental, and economic benefits of beans. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Paul about leading with empathy, investing in relationships, and intentionally communicating your theory of change.
Paul Newnham: “I think we often think that ideas are the thing that drive, but ideas are only as good as the people and the networks that carry them. And so I think investing in networks, investing in relationships is really critical. Within that, an insight that I've learned is to diversify that. Sometimes we go deep within a particular sector, but we don't look across. It's really important to look across both horizontally and vertically within your given field. And I think it's about building those kinds of webs so you can succeed in getting a message out there or a cause to gather momentum.”
00:40 Intro to Paul
01:28 How culture and development led Paul to SDG2 Advocacy Hub
03:28 Chefs bridge the gap between food systems and hunger
05:20 Equity and leading with empathy
07:07 Joy and celebration as a catalyst for change
08:13 Optimism, tenacity, and “getting to the next hill”
10:17 Overview of SDG2 Advocacy Hub
11:33 Sustainable food systems are diverse, responsive, and giving
12:27 A food system is like a mixing table
14:57 Shifting diets through supply and demand
18:05 Convenience, cost, and taste as food purchase drivers
19:47 Beans as a way to drive systemic change
23:03 “Beans is How” - Theory of Change
24:00 Using policy levers
25:08 Building the model to accelerate food systems change
25:53 Why an explicit framework builds lasting momentum
28:16 Importance of investing in diverse networks
30:26 Takeaways for changemakers
Links
SDG2 Advocacy HubSustainable Development Goal 2Chef’s Manifesto“Beans is How” Campaign“Beans is How” - Theory of ChangeWorld Food Program - The Cost of a Plate of FoodKeep in Touch
Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com
Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn
*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.
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