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I'm following up my recent solo post, 790: Talking to a guy injecting on the sidewalk, with another extemporaneous one. This one is also with a former podcast guest and fellow teacher of our sustainability leadership workshop, Evelyn Wallace.
This episode gives an inside view of how I develop ideas in our entrepreneurial team. In particular, I share a few insights into what I offer in the workshops. I've long known to avoid facts, numbers, and lecture. I avoid convincing, cajoling, and coercing, which I call bludgeoning. Most sustainability work I know of go in those directions.
I've long seen leadership as a performance art. We learn to practice arts through practicing the basics, which is why my books Leadership Step by Step and Initiative teach through experiential learning: practicing the basics.
Our sustainability leadership workshops teach the basics of sustainability leadership. As with any skill or art, mastering it creates freedom to express oneself, as well as liberation, fun, self-expression, self-awareness, and other skills that make life transcendent.
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On a beautiful sunny Saturday, 9:50am, I was walking to Washington Square Park to charge my battery and talk at 10am to my friend Dan McPherson (he's been on the podcast, where he shared about his heart attack at age 46 the week before we recorded). I saw the guy in the picture injecting. I asked if I could take his picture and a brief conversation ensued.
Instead of my planned conversation with Dan, we recorded my experience and thoughts about the conversation with the guy injecting on the sidewalk. I haven't edited anything. I recorded with just my headphone microphone so sorry about the audio quality, but I think you'll be able to understand us fine.
I also didn't prepare. I'm not speaking from notes or even more than a few minutes to reflect. You'll get to hear my thoughts raw.
As it happens, Dan is about a third of the way through my book, Sustainability Simplified. It came up in conversation, so you'll get to hear the impressions of someone who has read it. Only at the very end of the call did I think to text Dan the pictures, so listen to the end to hear his thoughts on the book.
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Fehlende Folgen?
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As a podcast host, I get pitched a lot of authors, books, and more. Most aren't relevant or are counterproductive to sustainability. I received an email promoting the author of Legal Gladiator, a biography of Alan Dershowitz. I knew the name from the news, but didn't know more than the name, maybe a whiff of his being controversial.
I looked up the book and author and found both fascinating. I scheduled talking to Solomon unrecorded to meet him and see if the connection would fit. I like bringing leaders from any field to sustainability since the field nearly completely lacks it. Solomon and Alan both seem like leaders, so I invited him.
Quoting from the book's page:
Praise for Solomon Schmidt:
âYou are a very talented young man with a bright future ahead of you.ââPres. Donald Trump
âAn amazing young author.ââMike Tyson
â[You have] quite a remarkable record. [Iâm] really impressed.ââDr. Noam Chomsky
âSolomon, thanks for all you do.ââGov. Mike Huckabee
âSolomon...is perhaps the youngest child historian in America.ââSteve Doocy
âSolomonâs doing the hard work and getting after it.âJocko Willink
â[I have] admiration for all [Solomon is] doing to make this a better worldâand a more educated world.ââDame Jane Goodall
"A reputable author."âRep. Jamie RaskinWe talk mostly about Alan, though also about Solomon. We don't talk much about sustainability, though the leadership shines. I am confident you'll find this episode, Solomon, and Alan fascinating. I'd love your thoughts.
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I quote Susan in my book, Sustainability Simplified. In it you'll see how much John Locke influenced my long-term vision for the US to understand and solve our environmental problems. Learning about the Thirteenth Amendment, which (mostly) banned slavery, and its improbable path to passage and ratification led me to think about solving our environmental problems similarly.
I learned that many people working to abolish slavery worked hard when drafting the US Constitution to make it able to support abolitionism and to disallow property in man. Slaveholders opposed them, so they accepted compromises. Still, they put enough into the Constitution to enable weakening the institution enough to eventually end it. I wondered if sustainability might have similar precedent, like some law or phrasing of the Constitution that might have disallowed polluting or depleting.
It turns out there was. It was in John Locke's Two Treatises on Government. The more I researched the man, his writings, and our Constitution, the more he seemed to apply to our environmental problems. That research led me to a paper by Susan Liebell, which I link to below.
My conversation with Susan explore the application of his work and theories.
Her paper that brought me to her: The Text and Context of "Enough and as Good": John Locke as the Foundation of an Environmental LiberalismHosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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I've been curious in what ways libertarian views on the environment and sustainability differ from conservative views. Travis worked at the Heritage Foundation, which is more conservative, and now works at the Cato Institute, which is more libertarian. Since I haven't spoken to many libertarians directly, I'm interested in this conversation to learn, so it's a conversation, not a debate.
Early in our conversation, he describes some of their differences and similarities, and why he chose Cato. He shares some of his training and background that led him to his views.
Then we talked about a few issues: the Inflation Reduction Act, regulation, how government funding of many programs results in industries growing without being profitable from its customers. We look at several moral hazards, including government gaining money and power from permitting polluting behavior and distributing funding evenly so everyone votes for something even if it doesn't help.
We recorded just before the election so talked about recording again after the election to talk about how its results affect the political, energy, and pollution landscape.
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Usually when someone does their commitment with the Spodek Method, they enjoy it. Nearly always they do more than they commit to. Sometimes someone really enjoys it.
Jan went to town on his commitment. You might wonder if there's any appeal to picking up litter. Is it worth the effort? Who cares, anyway? After all, more people litter than pick it up, as anyone can tell by how much litter there is and how much it's growing.
Yet the pattern I've discovered keeps happening. On the other side of working on sustainability is always community. I can't prove it always happens, but so far it does.
In Jan's case, he found community, in particular, people who had long wanted to act. They were just waiting for someone to lead them. When someone did, they embraced acting.
How many people around you are waiting for someone to activate them? How much community is waiting to form? How much easier do you think it will be than you probably expect, based on Jan's experience?
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I participated in an online workshop in influence and persuasion that Josh led. We got in touch afterward and found our approaches to the practices and how to learn them overlap. We start this episode talking about his background and what led him to learning and training others in the practices. Then we talk about what we like about learning and practicing them, what works, what doesn't, misconceptions, and other aspects. Some related subjects include authority, extrinsic emotions, management, and such.
We practiced the Spodek Method, him experiencing it for the first time. In this first conversation, he only experienced being led to share what the environment means to him and coming up with a commitment to help evoke that meaning. You can hear that beyond just participating in the exercise, he's also analyzing it as a professional. We'll have to wait for his second exercise to hear his experience and analysis of the whole exercise.
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If you haven't listened to episode 781: My New Major Life Volunteering Community Project, four years in the making, listen to it first for context.
That episode describes my journey to start volunteering as an auxiliary police officer and the background to it. Depending on how well you know me or not, you may find the activity as surprising as I do, though I seem to be a minority in that regard. Everyone else congratulates me. I remark on how different this part of my identity seems compared to the younger me who protested America's involvement in Central America, disrupted graduation to protest Apartheid, and knew friends who chose to be arrested at such protests.
This episode recounts one of my first activities as an auxiliary. One month ago today I participated in uniform in the Sixth Precinct's September 11 memorial service. I didn't expect the experience to affect me as much as it did. It did, so I'm sharing it, along with how the activity emerged from living more sustainably, related to how living in unsustainable modernity inhibits introspection and reflection with constant distraction.
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Jan is a listener of this podcast who contacted me about how it changed his life. He is listening to each episode, starting from the beginning. I invited him to be a guest and he accepted. We've also crossed paths through working with podcast guest Dave Gardner, and his work in Growthbusters and running for President of the United States.
Jan is Dutch, living in Germany, so can't vote in the US, but acts on sustainability locally. He told me he found my podcast made him feel empowered to act in a world where most people seem resigned not to act.
I invited him to share more and to experience the Spodek Method. Beyond recording this episode, he joined the sustainability leadership workshop.
To other listeners: if you're interested in sharing, others can learn from you. I invite you to contact me. You don't have to be a guest, but you may like it. You can also connect with the rest of this growing community.
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Toxic chemicals leach from food packaging into your food. Some of these chemicals disrupt your hormones. Some cause cancer. Some affect your children more. Some disperse into the environment and harm wildlife.
For 300,000 years, humans lived without plastic. We created this system, maybe thinking only of the effects we wanted, imagining these toxic effects wouldn't happen. Maybe we didn't imagine they could happen. We don't have to create these materials or use them. We are creating more all the time. There's just so much oil, it's so cheap, and there's nothing stopping producers from creating and selling them. Nearly everyone agrees a role of government is to protect you from my taking or destroying your life, liberty, and property, yet businesses and government gain money and power from creating them.
Jane's research and courses inform us of the dangers the producers don't want us to know about. In this episode, she shares how she discovered this problem, what she's doing about it, and details about the problems. She didn't originally intend to go in this direction, but chemicals from plastic were leaching into other experiments she was doing. The producer of the leaching materials didn't tell her. She had to do new research to find out, saw its seriousness, and kept going.
It's scary to learn. Still, while I'd rather live in a world where we don't permit people to poison us and profit from it, as long as we do, I'd rather know than not know.
The Food Packaging ForumTheir Crash Course in Food Contact Materials and HealthThe article she co-wrote published in the Journal of Exposure Science and Environmental Epidemiology the day of this episode: Evidence for widespread human exposure to food contact chemicalsA CNN article on Jane's research that happened to come out the day before this episode: Toxic chemicals used in food preparation leach into human bodies, study findsHosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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I started a new project volunteering in my community that is also a big life change I wouldn't believe I'm doing except that I am. In a sense I started the project over four years ago and it's only seeing the light of day now.
Sorry I'm writing little about and the episode is long, but for now I wanted only those interested to learn in so you have to listen all the way through to hear the full scope and details.
The episode I quoted in this one: 366: The Cops, Jocko Willink, and Joe RoganAnother episode I mentioned: 506: I lost $10 million on September 11, 2001. Here is what I learned from those who sacrificed and served.Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Jack shares his love for nature and passion to care for it, how central it is to his life, how much of his time and focus he devotes to it. He shares his principles of individual choice over top-down regulation. He especially opposes government subsidy for squashing innovation, including industries he prefers, like nuclear. He's not anti-government.
Listen to the episode for his views in more detail. He is as sincere as they come and has thought the issues through.
I couldn't help wonder how many political conservatives and libertarians care deeply about the environment yet get called "not caring." If they care but approach it differently, if I said they didn't care, it would drop my credibility in their view.
I valued this conversation for his sharing openly. I think we could use more like it. Plus we did the Spodek Method and can't wait to hear how his commitment goes. I predict it will affect his relationships. Heritage is influential. I wonder if it will affect politics.
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Nick and I talk about freedom, liberty, personal action and, however paradoxical to most people, how important personal behavior is in changing systems. Then we talk about markets, regulation, and democracy and how they interact with community norms. Looking at the words markets, regulation, and democracy, they may look academic or abstract, but I think you'll find the conversation fun because it's personal. We don't talk theory. We're talking about how we live and work.
A core of our conversation is where a society or state draws a line between things that benefit some people but hurt others. Some things may make messes but everyone agrees should be allowed, like exhaling or pooping. Others everyone agrees should be illegal, like putting poison in someone's food. But what about putting poison in the air in the process of doing something people like, like flying?
We talked about free markets too.
We also did the Spodek Method. Nick grew up near me, so his description of nature resonated more than most.
Nick's profile at C3 SolutionsHosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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This episode follows up the last one, on how you can learn sustainability leadership through our workshops, so you can practice sustainability joyfully. You can teach others to, and teach others to teach others.
If the process only led to a few people changing, or even many, it wouldn't be worth pursuing. Unlike almost any sustainability work, it can lead to global cultural change and a joyful, rewarding path to it. It doesn't require sacrifice or deprivation. It may look like it from our current culture, the culture that's lowering Earth's ability to sustain life, increasing isolation, and decreasing health, safety, and security globally, despite our reaching such pinnacles of scientific and technological achievement.
Hear in this episode how we can change the world by having more fun.
Then contact me to learn more and sign up. The next workshop begins September 10, 2024. You'll only wish you started earlier.
The Sustainability Simplified Entrepreneurship StrategyContact me to learn more and sign upHosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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If you've listened to a lot of this podcast, you've heard me walk guests through sharing their values on sustainability and acting on them.
Why do they enjoy what most people consider deprivation and sacrifice?
You can learn to do it. A growing team of us teach workshops in sustainability leadership. One is coming up, September 10, 2024.
You can become a leader in a movement to live joyfully sustainably, to change global culture at the last minute.
Here is the recommendation I quote
I would like to share with you my experience with confronting climate change head on this year. I decided to make it the year I stop my gloom and doom and to let go of my self-talk that reinforced that I am helpless to do anything. I am discovering that changing my own behavior is joyful and empowering. Deprivation and sacrifice are the OPPOSITE of how I feel about the daily journey toward habits that care for our beautiful planetary home.How did I come to this change of heart? My daughter took a class with Josh Spodek in Sustainability Leadership and I happened to be at her house while she was taking it. This led to conversations that challenged my pessimism about being able to do anything more than I was already doing. My pessimism about individual action making any difference was challenged. It fundamentally came down to âI can continue along as I am and for certain nothing will change, or I can take the reins of my part of this giant puzzle and have the chance to be a part of the solutionâ.A large part of my motivation came when I used an online carbon calculator to determine my âcarbon footprintâ. I discovered that from flying alone for the first seven months 2023 I had belched out over 10 times the amount of carbon that is considered the âsustainable limitâ per person per year. This number didnât even include gasoline, natural gas, or any other modes of consuming or polluting. It literally made me cry. It also made me get serious.I took the course that my daughter had taken and found a source of support, inspiration, information, and skills that were new. One of the things about this class that I think is most powerful is that there is nothing âprescriptiveâ about it. There are no lists of things you should do now and things you should avoid now. No one is deciding for you or shaming you into choices. Instead, it is an inward journey of connection to oneâs own internal motivation that is grounded in our own experiences in nature. It is a process of continuous improvement, so I didnât decide to reduce my trash consumption and then stop when I did that. I look every day for new ways to lessen my impact, and every time I find another way I feel GREAT and motivated to figure out whatâs next.I am writing to invite you to take this class. Joshâs model is to use conversations with each other as the foundation of connecting to our internal motivation, conversations using the Spodek Method. These conversations help build a community of people who have experienced the joy of taking self-directed action in oneâs own life. As with any BIG problem, the solutions require all of us. This class helps, one person at a time, to build a community of people who see themselves as part of the solution. I think you will be surprised and delighted with the empowerment you feel to take action.The Entrepreneurship StrategyContact me and sign upThe episode with Trish, who has cancerHosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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I'd heard of Strong Towns for years, mainly through guest Jason Slaughter's Not Just Bikes video series, and finally joined the community by taking a couple of their courses. I can't recommend them enough. Chuck Marohn founded that community. He found and publicized several of their core discoveries. Some include: North American cities grow based on a Ponzi scheme, the combination of a street and a road fails at both and wrecks everything it touches, cores of cities usually make the most economic sense, and outlying areas usually sap money and vitality.
I invited Chuck because of the overlap between city planning and sustainability. Over half of humans live in cities. Many can't avoid following the patterns of where to live, traffic, where to eat and shop, and how to spend money determined by their urban environment. I often say we don't need more electric cars, we need fewer roads, not that electric cars help.
I also learned from reading about him and you'll hear in our conversation that I wanted to learn from his having started a community running against the mainstream values making a lot of people money. I see him as a role model in this way. We talked about it some, but then got into the Spodek Method, which I think you'll hear he enjoyed.
Strong Towns web pageTheir courses (I've taken 101 and their Not Just Bikes courses so far and recommend them)Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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You've probably listened to Bruce's past three episodes, so you probably know he wants a path to exist that leads people to want to live more sustainably and spread that change to others. It would mean them overcoming their addictions. By them, I mean all of us, since if we order takeout, fly, and drive big cars, we're in the group that has to change.
His experience with addicts tells him it's hard, maybe impossible. On the other hand, while people may be conflicted and may have suppressed many of our emotions around the environment, we love nature.
In this episode, we hear the Spodek Method finally clicking with Bruce. One interaction with it isn't supposed to change the world itself. It creates a mindset shift, which one has to follow with continual improvement to change one person, then to spread, but here you can hear it clicking.
Ideas that spread, win. Emotions too. Here is a case where the emotion kicked in with someone skeptical. It's not alone a solution, but a proof of concept. In entrepreneurial terms, the technology works.
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I ask guests to do episodes 1.5 when they tell me they couldn't do their Spodek Method commitment or keep postponing. Sometimes they say they don't want to share that they didn't do it. But experience has shown that talking about that vulnerability by sharing that they didn't do it overcomes it. Then redoing the Spodek Method usually leads to it working better than expected. The goal isn't perfection, after all. It's to create experiences that prompt emotions they like.
Alden wasn't doing her ebike commitment, as you'll hear in this episode. She also shares some of her priorities in the rest of life. Many people think they don't have time for sustainability, but that view is a red herring. The Spodek Method acts on strong emotions the person likes. Emotion and values are related. To manifest powerful emotions is pretty close to living by your values, which is what our time is for.
We redid the Spodek Method. Listen for yourself, but I'd say she enjoyed the process. She came up with a new commitment. She also shared why she expects this commitment will be easier. We also shared common natural joys like foraging, permaculture, and wild food.
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Frederic describes his program The Week in our conversation. I did it last year, invited by a friend (whom I misname in our conversation, sorry) and recognized him. Podcast guest and mutual friend Lorna Davis had introduced us before he had started creating The Week.
The Week is one of the few programs on sustainability approaching it as a leadership effort, not management or lecture. Anyone can do it. It's a series of videos you watch with a group, then engage in discussion about it. It's different than the Spodek Method, but shares many aspects.
I could describe it more here, but the best way to learn is to hear his description in our conversation, then sign up for it.
Frederic's program The WeekHis book Reinventing OrganizationsHosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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I find this series of conversations with Bruce to be ending up excellent examples to learn advanced Spodek Method from. I think they're also engaging. I certainly enjoyed the conversations with Bruce.
You can tell he believes in the vision and isn't trying to answer askew, or maybe I'm not picking up on cues, but the interaction is both not clicking but not falling apart either. If you're learning the Spodek Method from the How-To Guide or a workshop, or finished either, I think you can learn a lot from these conversations. Also, from Bruce, a lot about addiction, science, and applying them to modern life.
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