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American pastors want things fast, large, and famous... but the kingdom of God comes slowly, in small and mostly unrecognized ways." In this paradigm-shifting conversation, Dr. Michael W. Goheen challenges our deeply held assumptions about church growth and success. Through the story of a remarkable turnaround in a dying congregation, Goheen demonstrates what happens when a church stops chasing quick fixes and begins to question its cultural captivity to growth metrics.
Join hosts Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton as they explore with Goheen how Western cultural idolatries shape our approach to church leadership, what we can learn from Lesslie Newbigin's missionary insights, and how ordinary church practices can be reoriented toward authentic renewal. Whether you're leading a growing congregation or struggling with decline, this episode will help you discern the difference between cultural definitions of success and genuine participation in God's mission.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
"Foolishness to the Greeks" by Lesslie Newbigin
"The Gospel in a Pluralist Society" by Lesslie Newbigin
"The Church and Its Vocation" by Michael Goheen
"Becoming a Missionary Church" by Michael Goheen
"The Imperfect Pastor" by Zack Eswine
Dr. Goheen's website with free resources https://missionworldview.com/
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How do you build authentic church community from scratch? In this inspiring episode of the Pivot Podcast, pioneer lay minister Fiona Mayne shares her remarkable journey from financial advisor to church planter, demonstrating how simple, organic steps can create a thriving Christian community. Fiona reveals practical strategies for church community building that anyone can implement—starting with nothing more than a willingness to listen and engage. From hosting community barbecues to creating welcoming café-style gatherings, her approach shows how authentic relationships and community ownership can lead to sustainable church growth.
Discover actionable insights for church community building, including how to create natural entry points for non-church people, ways to empower community members in shaping church culture, and strategies for developing inclusive, intergenerational ministry. Fiona's story challenges traditional church planting models, showing how letting go of control and truly listening to community needs can lead to vibrant, growing faith communities. Whether you're starting from scratch or looking to revitalize existing ministry, this episode offers practical wisdom for building church community that genuinely connects with today's world.
Resources Mentioned:
The Heart of a Holligan: The Story of David Jeal by Paul Alkazraji The Chosen series Church Mission Society Pioneer trainingWatch the video version on YouTube at https://youtu.be/4NlZB4pSY1I.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this thought-provoking episode of the Pivot Podcast, Dr. Joel Lawrence, president of the Center for Pastor Theologians, offers a fresh perspective on political theology and how churches can navigate our politically polarized landscape. Introducing the concept of "Sabbath politics," Dr. Lawrence challenges us to reimagine the church's role in society, shifting from a posture of control to one of trust in God's rule.
Drawing insights from his study of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the early chapters of Genesis, Dr. Lawrence provides practical guidance for church leaders seeking to apply political theology in fostering unity and faithful discipleship in divisive times. This episode is essential listening for anyone grappling with the intersection of faith, politics, and ecclesial identity in today's world.
Resources Mentioned:
Center for Pastor Theologians Dietrich Bonhoeffer's works, particularly "Discipleship" and "Life Together" James Davison Hunter's book "Democracy and Solidarity"See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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This Reformation Day, join hosts Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton for a transformative conversation with the Rev. Dr. Mark Tranvik, professor of Reformation history and theology at Luther Seminary. Explore how Martin Luther's revolutionary insights from the Protestant Reformation can breathe new life into 21st-century ministry and address the challenges facing today's church.
Dr. Tranvik unpacks key Reformation concepts like grace, vocation, and Christian freedom, revealing their surprising relevance for contemporary issues such as leadership burnout, rigid church structures, and the shift towards lay-led ministry. Discover how reclaiming Luther's emphasis on the "priesthood of all believers" can empower your congregation to live out their faith in fresh, meaningful ways this Reformation Day and beyond.
YouTube Video URL: https://youtu.be/QoOw2TX09mo.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this episode of the Pivot Podcast, we dive deep into the world of church planting with Nick Warnes, founder and executive director of Cyclical Incorporated. Nick shares his expertise on developing leaders for new Christian communities, challenging traditional notions of what it means to start a church. From discernment processes to financial sustainability, from adapting to diverse contexts to embracing a truly missional approach, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom for anyone interested in the future of the church.
Whether you're considering planting a church, supporting church planters, or simply curious about innovative approaches to ministry, Nick's insights will inspire you to think differently about how we can participate in God's ongoing work in the world. Join us for a thought-provoking discussion that reimagines church planting for the 21st century.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
The book, "Starting Missional Churches" by Mark Lau Branson and Nicholas Warnes The book, "Deconstructing Church Planting" by Nicholas Warnes Cyclical Incorporated websiteWatch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/w74h69LNOpA.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Dive into the evolving world of church planting with expert Len Tang in this transformative episode of the Pivot Podcast. Len, director of the Fuller Church Planting Initiative, unpacks the latest trends and strategies in church planting that are reshaping how we approach ministry in the 21st century.
Discover why church planting is more crucial than ever and how it serves as the R&D wing of the church. Len shares insights on:
Diverse models of church planting for different contexts The rise of co-vocational ministry and its impact on church planting Innovative funding strategies for sustainable church plants How established churches can support and learn from new plants The importance of leading with mission in denominational church planting effortsWhether you're a seasoned pastor, a potential church planter, or a lay leader passionate about church growth, this episode offers fresh perspectives and practical wisdom for advancing God's mission in today's rapidly changing world.
Show Notes:
Fuller Church Planting Initiative: https://www.fuller.edu/church-planting/ Planter Match website: https://plantermatch.org/ Book: "Closing Costs: Reimagining Church Real Estate for Missional Purposes" by Dominic Dutra https://www.amazon.com/Closing-Costs-Reimagining-Missional-Purposes/dp/1666711683 Exponential Conference: https://exponential.org/ City to City church planting network: https://redeemercitytocity.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this enlightening episode of the Pivot Podcast, Westina Matthews, a spiritual director with a background in Wall Street, challenges our understanding of contemplative practices. Hosts Dwight Shiley and Alicia Granholm explore Westina's unique journey and her innovative approach to integrating contemplative living into our fast-paced world.
Westina offers a fresh perspective on contemplative practices, expanding beyond traditional methods to include diverse activities that foster spiritual connection. She provides practical advice for incorporating these practices into daily life, addressing collective grief, and nurturing hope in challenging times. This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to deepen their spiritual journey and create more resilient, faith-filled communities through the power of contemplative practices.
SHOW NOTES:
"Soul Food: Nourishing Essays on Contemplative Living and Leadership" by Dr. Westina Matthews (ed.) "This Band of Sisterhood: Black Women Bishops on Race, Faith, and the Church" by Dr. Westina Matthews "Dancing from the Inside Out: Grace-Filled Reflections on Growing Older" by Dr. Westina Matthews YouTube Video URL: https://youtu.be/TxoptR85htk.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Explore innovative church fundraising ideas in this inspiring episode of the Pivot Podcast. Hosts Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton sit down with Grace Pomroy, director of the Stewardship Leaders Program at Luther Seminary and author of "Funding Forward," and Pastor Christina Ennin from First Presbyterian Church in Gulf Shores, Alabama. Discover how churches can transform underutilized assets into sustainable income sources while deepening community connections.
Grace and Christina share practical insights on aligning church finances with mission, fostering community partnerships, and navigating the challenges of implementing new fundraising strategies. From business centers to ecumenical collaborations, learn how churches are pivoting towards financial sustainability that serves both their congregations and their broader communities. Whether you're struggling with church finances or looking to diversify your income streams, this episode offers creative solutions and inspiring examples for churches of all sizes.
Resources Mentioned:
Book: "Funding Forward: A Pathway to More Sustainable Models for Ministry" by Grace Pomroy Book: "We Aren't Broke" by Mark Elsdon Program: Good Futures Accelerator by Rooted GoodSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Discover a revolutionary approach to church leadership with Dr. JR Woodward in this eye-opening episode of the Pivot Podcast. Author of "The Scandal of Leadership," Woodward unpacks the crisis of discipleship facing the church today and offers practical solutions for creating a culture of authentic spiritual growth.
Learn about the four spaces of belonging, understand the hidden powers influencing church leadership, and gain insights on how to lead your congregation into a more faithful future. Whether you're a seasoned pastor or a new church planter, this episode will challenge and inspire you to reimagine leadership in the way of Jesus.
Don't miss this opportunity to transform your approach to ministry and discipleship. Like, subscribe, and share to join the conversation on pivoting towards a more vibrant and missional church.
SHOW NOTES:
* JR Woodward website
* "The Scandal of Leadership" by JR Woodward
* The V3 Church Planting Movement
* "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill" podcast on Christianity TodayWatch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/iVPBCZ63ixs
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this groundbreaking episode of the Pivot podcast, we turn the tables on our regular host, the Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, to explore the revolutionary concept of Fresh Expressions of Church. Dwight, co-author of the forthcoming book "Embracing the Mixed Ecology," offers an exclusive preview of his research on innovative approaches to ministry in our rapidly changing world.
Discover how Fresh Expressions are breathing new life into the church landscape as part of a broader "mixed ecology" of ministry. From coffee shop gatherings to digital communities, learn how these innovative forms of church are reaching people that traditional models often miss. Dwight shares inspiring examples, practical insights, and a hopeful vision for the future of the church that embraces both tradition and innovation.
Whether you're leading a traditional congregation, exploring new forms of ministry, or simply curious about where the church is heading, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won't want to miss. Join us for a conversation that could reshape your understanding of what it means to be and do church in the 21st century.
Discover how Fresh Expressions of Church are transforming the landscape of ministry in this eye-opening episode of the Pivot podcast. Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, co-author of the upcoming book "Embracing the Mixed Ecology," shares groundbreaking insights on innovative approaches to church in our rapidly changing world. Learn about the "mixed ecology" model and how Fresh Expressions are reaching people traditional churches often miss. Whether you're a church leader, ministry innovator, or simply curious about the future of faith communities, this episode offers valuable insights and inspiration for navigating the changing face of church in the 21st century.
SHOW NOTES:
* Upcoming book: "Embracing the Mixed Ecology" by Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue (Spring 2025)
* FreshExpressions.com
* "Mission-shaped Church" report from the Church of England (2004)
* "Microchurches: A Smaller Way" by Brian Sanders
* Tampa Underground and KC Underground movements
* LifeChurch online ministrySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Fresh Expressions are revolutionizing how we think about and do church in the 21st century. In this compelling episode of the Pivot Podcast, hosts Rev. Drs. Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton welcome the Rev. Dr. Eliseo Mejia, a pioneering voice in the Fresh Expressions movement and director of Expressiones Divinas for Fresh Expressions North America.
Eliseo unpacks the concept of Fresh Expressions, sharing inspiring examples like "Churros y Chocolate" gatherings and dinner churches that are reaching people where they are. Discover how these innovative approaches are creating culturally-relevant, intergenerational faith communities that thrive outside traditional church walls. Whether you're new to Fresh Expressions or looking to deepen your understanding, this episode offers practical insights and a hope-filled vision for implementing Fresh Expressions in your own context. Join us as we explore the future of the Church through the lens of Fresh Expressions.
SHOW NOTES:
Fresh Expressions North America: https://freshexpressionsus.org/ Expressiones Divinas: https://freshexpressionsus.org/expressiones-divinas/ Feed My Starving Children: https://www.fmsc.org/ Faith+Lead Fresh Expressions course https://faithlead.org/course-lp/starting-a-fresh-expression-of-church/Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/dLFa-xbfiLQ
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this compelling follow-up episode, the Pivot Podcast dives deeper into the heart of church leadership and innovation. Dr. Andy Root, Dr. Michael Binder, and Dr. Dwight Zscheile challenge prevailing notions about church growth and effectiveness, proposing a radical shift in approach. Could the key to revitalizing ministry be found in doing less, waiting on God, and embracing uncertainty?
Explore why slowing down might be the most innovative step a church can take, how to redefine growth beyond numbers, and what it means to cultivate the courage to ask difficult questions about God's activity. This conversation offers hope and practical wisdom for leaders feeling burnt out or discouraged, inviting them to rediscover the heart of authentic, Christ-centered ministry in a rapidly changing world.
SHOW NOTES:
"The Congregation in a Secular Age," by Andrew Root | https://www.andrewroot.org/the-congregation-in-a-secular-age/ Find more about Andrew Root's book, "The Church after Innovation" | https://www.andrewroot.org/the-church-after-innovation/ "Leading Faithful Innovation" by Michael Binder, Dwight Zscheile, and Tessa Pinkstaff | https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506488769/Leading-Faithful-Innovation "Four Key Pivots the Church Must Make" | https://faithlead.org/about/framework/four-key-pivots/ "The Rise and Fall of American Growth," by Robert J. Gordon | https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691175805/the-rise-and-fall-of-american-growth Download: Free sample chapter of Leading Faithful Innovation | https://faithlead.org/topics/faithful-innovation/Listen to the Podcast:
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1515600522 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0cDv3mtwlzTozjxcyYdFVjJoin us on social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/faithleadfromluther/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lutherfaithleadWatch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4dzZyWXbVgs
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Are conventional church growth strategies falling short in today's changing religious landscape? In this episode (first in a two-part discussion), we dive deep into the concept of "innovation" in church contexts, exploring whether it's a helpful framework for ministry or a potential distraction from our core mission.
Dr. Andrew Root offers a critical perspective on adopting business-world trends, while the Rev Dr. Michael Binder and the Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile present a case for "faithful innovation." Their spirited conversation reveals both cautions and possibilities for churches seeking to thrive beyond traditional growth metrics.
Discover insights on:
The limitations of conventional church growth strategies Balancing faithfulness with adaptation in changing times Practices for deep listening and discernment in congregations Measuring ministry effectiveness beyond numbers Embracing uncertainty while remaining grounded in gospel truthsWhether you're rethinking your church's approach to growth or seeking fresh perspectives on faithful ministry, this episode offers valuable insights for navigating the complexities of church leadership in the 21st century.
SHOW NOTES:
Book: "The Church After Innovation" by Andrew Root
Book: "Leading Faithful Innovation" by Michael Binder, Dwight Zscheile, and Tessa Pinkstaff
Download: Spiritual Life Listening Tool
Download: Free sample chapter of Leading Faithful Innovation
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/8rKGLGi9jC0
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In episode 91 of the Pivot podcast, hosts Dr. Terri Elton and Dr. Dwight Zscheile talk with the Rev. Canon Dave Male, a pioneering leader in innovative ministry across the UK. They explore the vital task of forming disciples in today's rapidly changing culture and how we can bear faithful witness to the gospel. Dave shares his journey in establishing Fresh Expressions of church within the Church of England, discussing the challenges and opportunities of working within traditional church structures. He highlights the importance of embracing a mixed ecology of church, where both traditional and emerging forms of Christian community coexist and flourish. The conversation also delves into the need to create a culture of innovation and experimentation within local churches, with a focus on evangelism and discipleship as central to the mission of the church.
Watch this episode on YouTube at https://youtu.be/odg0C8QAaoY
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this compelling episode of the Pivot Podcast, hosts Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton welcome the Rev. F. Willis Johnson, who shares his experiences leading a church in Ferguson, Missouri during times of racial unrest. Willis offers a practical guide on how churches can actively engage in justice work, emphasizing the importance of self-reflection, local relevance, and concrete action. Listeners will discover how to "hold up their corner" in community transformation and why new expressions of faith are crucial in addressing today's social challenges.
Willis challenges church leaders to move beyond their comfort zones, embracing curiosity and openness in engaging with diverse communities. He provides insights on reimagining church for the 21st century, where faith and justice are inextricably linked. This episode is essential listening for church leaders, social justice advocates, and anyone seeking to understand how faith communities can effectively contribute to creating a more just and equitable society. Tune in for a conversation that will inspire you to put your faith into action in meaningful, community-centered ways.SHOW NOTES:
Holding Up Your Corner: talking about Race in Your Community by author F. Willis Johnson
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/08M6DKzDWXk
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this timely episode of the Pivot Podcast, hosts Dr. Alicia Granholm and the Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile tackle the challenging intersection of faith and politics with the Rev. Dr. Anthony Bateza, a Luther scholar and expert in Christian ethics. As the United States faces a divisive election season, Anthony offers a grounding historical perspective and practical wisdom for church leaders navigating these turbulent waters.
Explore how churches can foster meaningful political dialogue without falling into partisan traps. Discover the concept of affective polarization and its impact on congregations. Learn how to use Scripture creatively in addressing current issues and avoid common ethical pitfalls in political engagement. Anthony's insights, rooted in Luther's political theology, provide a roadmap for faithful civic participation that balances conviction with compassion.
Whether you're a pastor, lay leader, or engaged congregant, this episode offers valuable guidance on living out your faith in the public square. Join us for a conversation that will challenge and inspire you to approach politics with both biblical wisdom and neighborly love.
SHOW NOTES:
Rev. Dr. Anthony Bateza's Faith+Lead Academy course, Positions: Thinking Theologically About Politics The Alban Institute at Duke Divinity School Anthony Bateza’s page: https://www.stolaf.edu/profile/bateza Luther’s “The Freedom of a Christian”Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/gIy0-ftac8o
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Pastoral burnout is a silent epidemic in church leadership. In this crucial episode of the Pivot Podcast, we sit down with Rev. Nicole Bullock, a church planter, ministry innovator, and program director of Faith+Lead’s Seeds Fellowship. Nicole courageously shares her personal struggles with burnout and offers practical wisdom for sustainable ministry.
This episode tackles real challenges facing today's pastors, from setting boundaries without guilt to redefining success in leadership. Nicole discusses balancing family life with pastoral responsibilities, creating supportive church communities, and transitioning to more sustainable ministry models. Whether you're currently experiencing burnout or want to prevent it, this conversation provides essential strategies for maintaining your passion and effectiveness in ministry.
Show Notes:
Faith+Lead Seeds Fellowship Nicole’s website: https://nicoledbullock.com/Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/V-dJ_r3wcIY
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this compelling episode of the Pivot Podcast, we dive into the emerging importance of lay leadership in today's church. Our guest, Faith+Lead’s School for Lay Ministry alum Vicki Elfers, shares her inspiring journey from behind-the-scenes church secretary to dynamic lay minister, now preaching, leading Bible studies, and even conducting funerals.
Hosts Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile and Dr. Alicia Granholm explore how Vicki's story exemplifies a crucial pivot in church leadership—from clergy-led to lay-led, clergy-supported ministry. They discuss practical ways to identify and nurture lay leaders, the impact of leadership training programs, and how embracing lay leadership can breathe new life into congregations.
Whether you're a church leader seeking to empower your congregation or a lay person sensing a call to deeper involvement, this episode offers valuable insights on unleashing the potential of lay leadership for a vibrant, sustainable church future.
Show links:
Faith+Lead School for Lay Ministry NY Metropolitan Synod’s Synodical Deacon program Stephen Ministries Tres Dias International communityWatch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/g3E1OVO0vnw
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this transformative episode of the Pivot Podcast, internationally recognized spiritual formation expert Mark Scandrette shares his journey of reimagining practical discipleship for the 21st century. Mark introduces the concept of the "Jesus Dojo," a revolutionary approach to hands-on, experiential faith formation. He shares powerful examples of practical experiments in following Jesus, including a radical approach to simplicity and generosity.
Hosts Dr. Alicia Granholm and Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile explore with Mark how church leaders can shift from information-based teaching to practical, action-oriented discipleship. Discover how creating vulnerable, experiential spiritual communities can lead to profound personal and collective transformation. Whether you're a church leader looking to revitalize your congregation's spiritual life or an individual seeking a more authentic faith journey, this episode offers inspiring insights and practical steps for pivoting towards a more vibrant, Jesus-centered spirituality through practical discipleship.
Show notes:
Mark Scandrette's book: "The Ninefold Path of Jesus: Hidden Wisdom of the Beatitudes" Mark's previous book: "Practicing the Way of Jesus" Reimagine - Mark's Center for Integral Christian practice Nine Beats Collective - a project exploring the Beatitudes that Mark is involved withWatch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/R6I9GmRcX0E
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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In this thought-provoking episode of Pivot, hosts Rev. Dr. Terri Elton, Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile, and Dr. Alicia Granholm dive into the shifting landscape of church leadership. They explore the growing trend towards lay-led, clergy-supported ministry models and what this means for both clergy and congregations. Drawing on real-life examples and listener questions, the conversation covers topics such as empowering lay leaders, redefining clergy roles, fostering ecumenical cooperation, and navigating resistance to change.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into how churches can adapt to post-Christendom realities, cultivate collaborative leadership, and reimagine structures for more effective ministry. Whether you're a clergy member, lay leader, or simply interested in the future of the church, this episode offers practical wisdom and inspiration for navigating these changing times with hope and creativity. Join us as we explore what it means to be the church in the 21st century and how we can all play a part in God's ongoing work in the world.
Listen to the Podcast here:
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1515600522 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0cDv3mtwlzTozjxcyYdFVjJoin us on social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/faithleadfromluther/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lutherfaithlead Twitter: https://x.com/LutherFaithLeadYouTube Video URL: https://youtu.be/bFXtOalaeXk
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