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In our final episode of season 6, we are pleased to speak with Angela Reitsma Bick, editor of Christian Courier and co-author of the newly released book Blessed Are the Undone, which explores faith deconstruction in the Canadian context.
Angela joined us while in Vancouver on the national tour for the book, and we talked about why so many people in Canada are stepping away from church—and how we might begin to understand, rather than fix, that reality. Blessed Are the Undone doesn’t rush to offer answers or prescriptions. Instead, it makes space for grief, honesty, and a deeper look at the fractures that often go unnamed in church life.
This conversation invites us to consider how listening—really listening—to those who’ve walked away can become a kind of faithfulness in itself. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next season!
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This is our third and final instalment of our series with Orthodox theologian and friend of the Cupboard, David Goa. This series has focused on the topic of fundamentalism, how it is expressed within the church, from several sides. If you haven’t listened to the first two episodes in this series, we’d encourage you to go back and take a listen to them before diving into this conversation.
In today’s episode, Todd and David speak of the challenge that encountering the living God presents to fundamentalism and how this challenge is hopeful for those professing Christian faith. Discussing the work of William Cavanaugh in his recent book, The Uses of Idolatry, we consider how encountering the living God is fundamentally unmanageable. This unmanageability can be experienced as distressing and fearful for people as it can be at odds with that which we assume is certain, is foundational, that which we may hold sacred. But in this place, we can come to understand the presence of God rather than our presumptions about God.
We hope that you have found challenge and encouragement, perhaps, hope in these conversations. Thanks for listening.
If you’d like to explore these ideas more, we invite you to read the books that these conversations have largely centred around.
Minds Wide Shut: How the New Fundamentalisms Divide Us, Gary Saul Morson and Morton Shapiro, 2021
Wonder Confronts Certainty: Russian Writers of the Timeless Questions and Why Their Answers Matter, Gary Saul Mortson, 2023
The Uses of Idolatry, Williams T. Cavanaugh, 2024
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Fehlende Folgen?
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This is the second of three conversations we had with friend of the Cupboard, David Goa, on the topic of fundamentalism. If you haven’t listened to part one, we’d encourage you to do so before diving into this conversation.
In this conversation, Todd and David consider the question, If not fundamentalism, than what? David observes that our capacity for conversation, particularly with those with whom we have profound disagreement, has shrunk, exacerbating the polarization that many feel.
How can we relearn this critical skill? How can we relearn to see the Other as human rather than issue or stance? How can we reach across the divide in love rather than push away in fear?
As David says, this is small, slow work, and it is always particular. But it is vitally important work.
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You have likely heard, and perhaps said, that we live in a world that is very polarized. Too often, communities of faith have contributed to this polarization rather than offered help or healing to a divided world.
David Goa has been, and continues to be, a formational voice for Rector’s Cupboard and for the work of Reflector Project.
David has been running Philosopher Cafés in his home province of Alberta, Canada around the topic of “The New Fundamentalisms and How They Divide Us.” He has drawn from the work of Gary Saul Morson and Morton Schapiro in describing how openness to the other person is a more hopeful and faithful way of living than being closed and fundamentalist.
Saul Morson refers to a notion that he calls the “congregation of the blessed.” This is the idea that anyone and anything outside of a particular group becomes seen as suspect or even evil, “Where people belonging to one faction (or faith, or denomination) feel that they are not just in a particular party, but are part of the congregation of the blessed, fighting demonic forces.”
David and I recently had three conversations about the new fundamentalisms and the possibility of finding a better way forward in faith, belief and worldview. Part one of this series considers how fundamentalism, rigidity and suspicion of others can be unfortunately understood as faithful when it is actually fearful.
David Goa is a thoughtful and helpful guide through a consideration of how our faith and worldview might grow up past a kind of spiritually adolescent fundamentalism.
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Those in Christian circles have likely spent many a Sunday morning sitting in a pew (or, perhaps, a more comfortable seat) listening to someone preach. While the length of sermon or its place in a service may vary from denomination to denomination, or pastor to pastor, the act of hearing the Word of God preached regularly is part of the Christian tradition.
We were please to speak to Mark Glanville about this topic. Mark is a pro at sermons, quite literally. Having spent much of his career preaching sermons as well as teaching classes on the subject, he has decades of broad experience from which he draws.
Mark is an author, podcaster, Director of the Centre for Missional Leadership, and jazz pianist. We spoke to Mark about his latest book, Preaching in a New Key: Crafting Expository Sermons in Post-Christian Communities, which came out this spring. This book is a guide of sorts for those new to sermon writing as well as those who are wanting to find a fresh and new approach to the task. Our conversation touched on the holistic nature of sermon writing as well as how it can be approached in the post-Christian world many communities of faith find themselves in. It is hopeful and beautiful and worth reading, even if you don’t happen to be a pastor yourself.
You can check out Mark’s many projects on his website, which has links to his books, podcast, and social media. If you’re in the Vancouver area, we highly encourage you to check out Mark's book launch for Preach in a New Key, coming up May 23, at St. Andrew’s-Wesley United Church. This unique event includes art, storytelling, and Mark’s jazz trio.
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Today is Good Friday.In Christian faith, today and Easter Sunday are two of the most important days of observation.
We often, on Rector’s Cupboard, refer to what is happening in the world, the news, politics, culture.
In Christian faith, Good Friday is always more than news of the week. It is at the heart of the faith.With that in mind, we offer a Good Friday reflection.
The reflection is intended as an invitation to spiritual contemplation. What does it mean that Jesus was alone on Good Friday? What does “Christ Alone” entail?
Wherever you are at, in terms of faith and belief, may you know God’s presence and blessing and hope this Easter weekend.
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A special episode.Recorded live at the Rector’s Cupboard studio. John Swinton is Professor of Practical Theology at the University of Aberdeen. Before becoming a mental health professional and then a writer (of at least four books) on faith and mental health, John wanted to be a rock star. He brought together his interests in recording an album called Beautiful Songs about Difficult Things.
We speak with John in studio, hear him reflect on some of his work and the personal nature of some of the songs. John also performs some of the songs for the assembled gathering.
Enjoy!
A quick note, the “this book” that Todd references toward the beginning of the episode is John’s 2016 book, Becoming Friend of Time: Disability, Timefullness, and Gentle Discipleship.
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It might be that being a full-time pastor is now untenable. It is a job that pulls in so many directions that it becomes virtually impossible. One of the things that can help is accepting that for pastors, spiritual energy often comes from outside of the church in which they work.
We speak with Matthew Brough, a Presbyterian pastor in Winnipeg, who is also an author and podcaster. Matthew has written books on spirituality (Let God series) as well as five fantasy/adventure books for kids (Del Ryder series). Oh, and he runs a small publishing business.
Matthew speaks to us about the challenges and benefits of a multi-vocational life, giving us a picture of how pastoral life might function in the future.
If you’re interested in Matthew’s work, check out his website. You can find links to his writing, podcast, and how to connect with him there. Enjoy!
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We are pleased to speak to the Ven. Dr. Rob James (which he said we could shorten to Rob), about his latest publication, 50 New Testament Stories for Storytellers, a new illustrated, beautifully illustrated we might add, children’s Bible. Rob is an Associate Professor and the Director of Anglican Studies and Formation at the Vancouver School of Theology. He also holds six degrees from five universities and has many years of experience as an Anglican perish priest. Rob speaks to us about his approach to telling biblical stories to kids (and adults) through the lens of storytelling, incorporating visuals and participation as he goes.
There are important questions to be asked about how we speak to children about faith and how we tell kids the stories of the Bible. Often this telling has been experienced as reductionist or moralizing. Rob does neither of these things. He helps to bridge the gap between biblical scholarship and storytelling in this book and is a resource that we heartily recommend for those wanting to find hopeful, new, and interesting ways to bring the stories of the Bible to children. 50 New Testament Stories for Storytellers is available now.
A quick recording note, you may notice that our interview with Rob has a distinct cathedral-like echo. Unfortunately, we did not record our conversation with Rob in a cathedral, although that would have been cool, but we hope it isn’t a distraction as you listen. Enjoy!
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In the 20th chapter of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus tells His followers what power is like in the kingdom of God. He says that real greatness is servanthood and that we ought not aim to “lord it over” others.
There is a movement in the United States, and in many countries around the world, that apparently utterly rejects Jesus’ way of power. This movement, called Christian nationalism, is a parasite upon Christian faith that is proudly taking up a crusade against anything and anyone deemed as opposition or enemy. Though it uses the language of faith, it is not about faith. It is about the accumulation of power. Donald Trump is held up by Christian nationalists. Vladimir Putin argues that the invasion of Ukraine is an exercise of upholding Christian values against ungodly enemies. We are of the opinion that many well-meaning Christians have fallen into listening to voices of Christian nationalism.
Christian nationalism is perhaps the biggest present threat to democracy. Christian nationalism is not Christian. It is a form of idolatry, a worship of power. We are not alone, at Rector’s Cupboard, in feeling that if we want to speak a hopeful faith, a faith that reflects the love of God in Jesus for all the world, then we will speak against Christian nationalism.
We are pleased to welcome back to Rector’s Cupboard Katherine Stewart to speak about her new book, Money, Lies, and God. The book has just been released this week. We were privileged to read it before publication and spoke with Katherine early in January. Money, Lies, and God is a frightening book to read as it describes real threats to democracy. There is hope and humour in it as well as Katherine Stewart tells us about her interactions with Christians who hold a hopeful faith and as she narrates visits to many religious and political rallies.
Katherine’s previous book, The Power Worshippers was adapted into a documentary by Rob Reiner. It is called God and Country and is available through Apple TV and other platforms.
Having interviewed Katherine about two of her books, we are pleased to welcome her for an in-person event in Vancouver on April 28. Details will be available on our website and the Rector’s Cupboard social pages so keep an eye out for registration details coming soon.
Terms Referenced:There are a lot of terms, institutions, and people mentioned in our conversation with Katherine Stewart. You may want to avail yourself of some googling, but we have put together a short glossary to help with listening.
Pluralism – The idea that people who are different in belief, life style, etc can coexist in a society peacefully.
Sectarian – Usually divisive ideology based on political or religious difference. It is typically expressed in hard line stances and by an unwillingness to work with or tolerate differing opinions
Kleptocracy – A form of government structure in which leaders use political power to amass wealth from the general population
Theocracy – A form of government structure which is based on or run by a particular religious system/belief
Charter Schools/Voucher System – In our conversation with Stewart these are used within an American framework. Charter Schools are alternate schools requiring no tuition that are run, to some degree, under a local school board, but tend to offer different types of programming or structure than a typical public school. The Voucher System allows for funds allocated to public education to be used for alternate educational systems, such as homeschooling, or tuition for private schools (which may be religious or not)
The Great Awakening – A series of religious revivals that took place between the early 18th century and 1960’s. These movements have typically been defined by a focus on making religion personal.
Historical Jesus – A picture of Jesus that is based on an academic study, considering historical and cultural context, of the person of Jesus rather than a religious interpretation.
Resources Referenced:The Good News Club, Katherine Stewart, 2012
The Power Worshippers, Katherine Stewart, 2020
God & Country (documentary), 2024
The Givenness of Things, Marilynne Robinson, 2015
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Jonathan Rauch is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution. His most recent book, out this week, is called Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy. We speak with Jonathan about the book, about why he, as a non-Christian, self-identifying atheist, makes the claim that democracy in the United States is at risk if Christian faith is not sufficiently Christian.
Host Todd Wiebe is joined by friend of the show Spencer Capier for the interview. Spencer is a philosophy teacher and is currently the President of the West Vancouver Teachers Association. He is familiar with much of Rauch’s work and writing.
A brief glossary of terms:
Liberal - As in “Liberal Political Party” distinct from as in “Liberal Democracy”. The term “liberal democracy” refers to a form of governance defined by separation of powers. Here the word “liberal” might be considered in light of the aspect of freedom. Power is spread out. Checks and balances are in place and freedom/agency is emphasized alongside individual rights.
“Liberal” as a description of a political party or on the spectrum of “liberal vs. conservative” has a somewhat different meaning. Here it describes a political expression that can be based out of ideas of liberal democracy but can also come to be defined by being progressive or anti-conservative.
When “liberal” becomes an ideology, an “ism” it can become as totalizing as any other ideology.Here is an excerpt from the Hannah Arendt Center for Politics and Humanities: “Liberalism is a version of progressivism: it perceives society as in the process of constant improvement (usually measured by the criterion of equality) and claims to possess the conceptual instruments that make such a change possible. Liberalism believes itself to be both the doer and the supervisor of progress.”
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Our annual hosts only Christmas special. Cupboard Master Ken Bell presents his take on a B5-2, using Nocciola, a hazelnut liqueur from one of our favourite local distilleries, The Woods Spirit Co.
We ask one another three questions about Christmas:1. What do you miss about Christmases past?2. What are you glad that is gone?3. What is needed to properly celebrate Christmas?
Our hope is to take the pressure off. The world was not ready for the first Christmas. God is good beyond your readiness or preparation.Merry Christmas to you and yours.
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We speak with theologian and philosopher Thomas Jay Oord about his church trial and his book Open and Relational Theology. Thomas, who was a minister for many years in the Church of the Nazarene, faced a trial for being inclusive on matters of LGBTQ+ and church participation and blessing. Thomas outlines a theological view that is about love more than it is about traditional concepts of power. This means that he calls for better understanding of what it means that God is all powerful or all knowing.
The story of Thomas’ trial and excommunication can sound almost medieval, but it reminds us that the struggle over proper belief is very much alive today. Individuals and churches are being excommunicated or disaffiliated. Some people are choosing themselves to part company with a church or denomination based on rigid belief or what they see as damaging theology.
Thomas is a regular contributor to podcasts such as Tripp Fuller’s Homebrewed Christianity and continues to write and to direct the Center for Open and Relational Theology.
Articles and Episodes Referenced:“Six Heretics Who Should Be Banned From Evangelicalism” – Relevant Magazine, September 13, 2022
“Church Fights: King vs. Liquorish” – Rector’s Cupboard, Season 3
Tasting Notes:On today’s episode we sampled the Iron Buddha Gin and the Black Tusk Smoked Vodka from Squamish’s Raincity Distillery.
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We speak with friend of the show Ross Lockhart about his recent book (and PhD work) called West Coast Mission: The Changing Nature of Christianity in Vancouver.
The book takes an in-depth look at 12 churches and two faith-based organizations in the Vancouver area. It takes up themes that are familiar to almost everyone who has been part of a church in the last couple of decades.
We talk about differences in approach to the “outside world” and how things have changed in regards to how churches relate to society as a whole. There is both consolation and challenge in our conversation. What might real theological change look like as compared with change of style or strategy?
Ross is the Dean of St. Andrew’s Hall, the Presbyterian Church in Canada college at the University of British Columbia. Ross is also the Professor of Mission Studies at Vancouver School of Theology, where he teaches courses in practical theology. Ross holds a PhD from Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam and is the author of Lessons from Laodicea: Missional Leadership in a Culture of Affluence; Beyond Snakes and Shamrocks: St. Patrick’s Missional Leadership Lessons for Today; co-author of Better Than Brunch: Missional Churches in Cascadia as well as Christianity: An Asian Religion in Vancouver and editor of Christian Witness in Cascadian Soil. Ross’ latest project is West Coast Mission: the Changing Nature of Christianity in Vancouver published this fall by McGill-Queen’s University Press. Ross lives with his family on Bowen Island, B.C. Ross’s newest book is available now.
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Mental health and matters of spiritual and mental wellness are often topics we address on Rector’s Cupboard and so we were very grateful to speak to Elise Girardin, Executive Director of The Woods Arts & Wellness, a North Vancouver based therapy practice addressing the well being of mind-body-spirit through engagement with nature and the arts.
Elise practices what she calls embodied therapy, helping people find healing and flourishing through connection and creativity. This kind of therapy is beneficial for those who have experienced trauma, those who feel disconnected, those who do not feel like they are flourishing. We highly recommend checking out The Woods and their programs. They offer a variety of therapies, some available virtually, and have sliding-scale pricing for accessibility.
If you’d like some extra credit, Elise recommends the following books on embodied therapy practices and research:
The Body Keeps the Score, Bessel van der KolkYour Brain on Art, Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross
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Shaila Visser is the National Director of Alpha Canada and the Global Senior Vice-President for Alpha International. She is the Executive Producer of both The Alpha Youth Film Series (2013) and The Alpha Film Series (2016), and currently holds a position on the Board of the Damascus Road Foundation.
We speak with Shaila about how and why Alpha works and has for so many years. What does it mean to talk about faith, but not prescribe a particular outcome? We also speak about what faith might look like for those who have pushed away from their previous church experience.
For information on Alpha, including finding a course, running a course, or helping support Alpha, you can check out their website.
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Dr. Aurelian Crăiuțu is Professor in the Department of Political Science at Indiana University, Bloomington, and Adjunct Professor in the Lilly Family School of Philanthropic Studies at IUPUI, Indianapolis. He is also affiliated with the Russian and East European Institute, the Institute for West European Studies, and the Ostrom Workshop. Crăiuțu has written extensively about the concept of political moderation and has argued that moderation is the strongest, most intellectually honest, and most radical political position in times of polarization.
Rector’s Cupboard co-host, Todd Wiebe, wrote an article for Church For Vancouver, in April 2024 reflecting on Crăiuțu’s latest work, Why Not Moderation?, in relation to Evangelical culture. Asking questions such as; What are the shadow sides of the calls for “radical commitment” in Evangelical faith? How might religious moderation by the strongest type of commitment?
After publication of that piece, Aurelian Crăiuțu reached out to Todd and asked for a conversation on religious moderation and how it might relate to political moderation. This episode is that conversation.
You may have grown up in a religious culture that demanded or rewarded a kind of fully-sold-out faith. While the appeals of this kind of neither-hot-nor-cold understanding of faith are evident, the dangers and weaknesses are often overlooked. If sold out faith means never questioning belief or leadership, than it is weak, not strong. If sold out faith means seeing people who don’t believe what you believe as obviously misguided or even evil, than it is weak, not strong. Political moderation moves us towards genuine consideration of the other. Christian faith, at its hopeful best, does the same. The concept of the Incarnation is the heart of God moving towards humanity. Faith that is truly strong (moderate) recognizes this call.
If you’d like to read more about moderation, you can find links to Todd original article and Dr. Crăiuțu’s book above. If you’re really keen about even more writing about moderation, you can also check out Todd’s other article about it, written earlier this year, in Evangelically Departed.
We hope you enjoy the conversation!
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As we close season 5 of Rector’s Cupboard and begin summer, Rector’s Cupboard hosts, Todd, Amanda, and Allison have gathered to talk about what is on our summer reading/watching/listening lists this year that we think you might find interesting. We hope that you are able to find time for beauty and rest and entertainment this summer and we will be back in the fall with season 6!
Rector’s Cupboard Recommendations:Music:Outlaw Festival – taking place at the Gorge Amphitheatre in George, Washington, featuring Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, and John Mellencamp
Shows:The Bear, season 3 – Disney PlusOutlaws – PrimeBlue Lights – Brit BoxPlant Earth 3 – PrimeTaskmaster - Brit Box
Books:Take What You Need – Idra NoveyReading Gensis – Marilynne RobinsonA Commentary on Jeremiah – Walter BrueggemannIncarnational Humanism Jens – ZimmermanThe Five Invitations – Frank OstaseskiI’m So Glad We Had This Time Together – Maurice VellekoopDucks: Two Years in the Oil Sands – Kate BeatonGilead – Marilynne RobinsonSmall Things Like These - Claire Keegan
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Benjamin Perrin is a professor at the University of British Columbia, Peter A. Allard School of Law and a senior fellow in criminal justice at the Macdonald Laurier Institute of Public Policy and the author of several books including Indictment: the Criminal Justice System on Trial and Overdose: Heartbreak and Hope in Canada’s Opioid Crisis.
We speak with Ben Perrin about a couple of his books. Ben does a fantastic job of describing challenges of criminal justice and the opioid crisis in Canada. He places himself within the frame of someone who used to believe one way, but changed his view – in his own description, because of his faith.
Ben’s research on the topics is extensive and his books offer a look into the many challenges and considerations. They also offer an example of the positive call of being open to change. It was a privilege to speak with Ben. We think that you will find his insight and example inspiring.
We are grateful as well to open this episode with a conversation with a member of the Reflector Project Board, the non-profit of which Rector’s Cupboard is a part. Tierney has professional experience working with people who have faced the trauma and stigma that Benjamin Perrin writes and speaks about.
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We were pleased to speak again to Dr. Marty Folsom about his latest work, Karl Barth’s Church Dogmatics For Everyone, Vol 2 – The Doctrine of God: A Step-by-Step Guide for Beginners and Pros. Marty Folsom has taken up an expansive work of outlining the main points and the structure of Karl Barth’s multi-volumed Church Dogmatics. Those two words, “church” and “dogmatics,” both carry negative perceptions for many people. What you will find in Church Dogmatics, however, is helpful and hopeful, positive and thoughtful, and even healing.
Karl Barth presents a way of seeing faith and life that is bright, a way that calls us to solidarity rather than separation, all because God has chosen not to be God without us.
You might find it hard to believe what you used to believe, or hard to believe in the way that you used to believe. Marty Folsom shows us, through presenting the work of Karl Barth, that there is a better, more faithful way of believing.
Volume 2 of Folsom’s Karl Barth’s Church Dogmatics for Everyone has just been released. This book looks at Church Dogmatics 2 and outlines concepts such as the sovereignty of God in choosing to love humanity, and the hopeful doctrine of election, God’s love for ALL. We are grateful for the conversation about the new book.
If you’d like to listen to our interview with Marty about Volume 1 of his Karl Barth’s Church Dogmatics for Everyone series, you can find that episode here.
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