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  • Early stage validation and the PMF spectrum

    Early stage validation and the PMF spectrum

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode, Andrew talks about the rapid audience growth he's seeing on Bluesky and the challenges he's running into finding Founding Users for MetaMonster. The guys talk about the idea of product market fit as a spectrum and validation as a way to uncover where you might be on that spectrum, but without ever getting to 100% certainty. Then Sean talks through trying to find his next side project idea.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.01

    Sean

    This is a full Andrew podcast with Sean does a support character today Mainly because I was late before this call

    00:08.75

    Andrew

    Uh, I was also kind of late. I was chatting with a friend and it took me a while. Yeah. what's up, man? How are you?

    00:17.09

    Sean

    I'm good. um I'm busy. um Yeah, I'm busy. A lot of things happening with miscreants, Q4, trying to get a lot of things wrapped up before the holidays and and just so much inbound.

    00:31.44

    Sean

    So much inbound.

    00:31.83

    Andrew

    That's great.

    00:32.67

    Sean

    Yeah, it is. It's amazing. You know, partially

    00:34.65

    Andrew

    you see You sound exhausted by it. but

    00:36.91

    Sean

    I'm so tired. Yeah. Well, partially thanks to you for for doing some really good work as well. So I appreciate it.

    00:43.48

    Andrew

    Cool. I'm glad it's been helping.

    00:45.98

    Sean

    Yeah, absolutely. What's up with you? What's going on?

    00:49.78

    Andrew

    So two things I want to talk about today, a small one and then a bigger one that I want to work out some thoughts with, with you and our, our 12 listeners.

    01:01.03

    Sean

    Yeah.

    01:02.70

    Andrew

    so the small one real quick blue sky is popping off right now. It is wild. I've been, I've had an account for like two weeks now and I'm up to 1200 followers.

    01:16.59

    Andrew

    starter kits are this like magical growth hack, uh, where

    01:16.28

    Sean

    he yeah

    01:20.44

    Sean

    Are starter kits just lists but people can auto follow everyone in the list?

    01:25.31

    Andrew

    Basically, yeah, yeah, a starter kit is basically like a Twitter list.

    01:26.99

    Sean

    okay

    01:30.65

    Andrew

    But so in Blue Sky, you have three concepts that that fulfill part of the responsibility of lists um in Twitter. So you have starter kits, which are a way to curate a list of people that you think others should follow most often around the topic. So like, I'm in a couple of like indie hacker, indie founder, bootstrap founder, starter kits. and you can, when you open a starter kit, you can follow individual people or you can just click follow all.

    02:01.31

    Andrew

    and And so that's how I found people to follow. I'm following like 360 people. It's almost all from like a handful of starter kits. And then and it's a really great mechanism for people to very quickly build a little network.

    02:18.09

    Andrew

    And it's if you get added to a couple of these, it's an awesome growth mechanism.

    02:22.54

    Sean

    Hell

    02:22.64

    Andrew

    So I'm up to 1,200 followers. very, very quickly, which is cool.

    02:28.21

    Sean

    yeah.

    02:29.29

    Andrew

    And we'll see how that correlates to engagement. wasn't seeing much engagement for the first like maybe 400 or 500 followers, but now I feel like I'm starting to see some pretty solid engagement.

    02:41.50

    Andrew

    I think engagement is naturally going to lag behind followers on the platform while people are still building a habit of checking and using Blue Sky, because it's still like A lot of people are switching over right now or like signing up and trying it for the first time, and so they're not going to have that usage habit right away. But I'm now seeing more engagement there than I am on tweets, and I have like 2700 Twitter followers.

    03:09.80

    Andrew

    So there's there's starter kits, then there's lists. they do have lists that work exactly like Twitter lists, which are like a non-algorithmic way to curate a list of people whose content you want to view without following them. And then they have feeds, which are custom algorithms that developers can write and publish.

    03:31.61

    Andrew

    so there's like 50,000 feeds. So there's essentially 50,000 different algorithms you can choose to subscribe to and follow. So there's a default discover algorithm. There's a default like following algorithm, where it's just everyone you follow.

    03:46.88

    Andrew

    then you can subscribe to lots of different feeds and customize your algorithm work the way you want to, which is a really cool idea.

    03:59.56

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    03:57.79

    Sean

    that is a really cool idea i wonder i wonder if there's like a secret like if your feed is used a lot you know how like you know plug-in like places that like have that you do upload plugins and stuff will pay out a certain amount if you have like a cool

    04:13.36

    Andrew

    Maybe. Yeah. I don't think they've started doing revenue sharing on blue sky yet. and they very openly said they're going to try to stay away from advertising and sell premium features, which is interesting. sort of Also the blue sky team is only 20 people. There are 20 people on the team.

    04:34.05

    Sean

    So you're saying Musk didn't fire enough people when he joined Twitter. That's what you're telling me.

    04:39.64

    Andrew

    I'm saying it's really cool what they're doing. And they're they're being very open and like chatting with and interacting with the community. Overall, the vibes are just, it I think because it's new, like this won't last forever, but because it's new, people are looking for people to follow. They're looking for content to engage with. therere They're just more open and and curious than where people have more set patterns of behavior that they fall into.

    05:11.07

    Andrew

    So the vibes are really good right ...

  • How to replace yourself in your agency

    How to replace yourself in your agency

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode, Sean talks about getting himself out of day-to-day client work at Miscreants, and Andrew provides an update on his slow progress with customer acquisition for MetaMonster. Andrew shares an idea for a side project and they talk about Dharmesh buying the chat.com domain and "flipping" it to OpenAI.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.98

    Sean

    All right, what is this thing, Andrew? What are you gonna tell me? even It's been 30 minutes since you told me we we're changing what we're talking about today. Now you've been, okay, go.

    00:12.23

    Andrew

    let me Let me just play this for you and I think it'll all make sense.

    00:15.25

    Sean

    Okay.

    00:21.25

    Andrew

    and

    00:24.28

    Andrew

    hoping you can so into me baby

    00:28.45

    Andrew

    Do you know what this is yet?

    00:33.18

    Sean

    Yes. I know what this is. I know what this is. This is the... I feel bad for all Asian guys in SF. I'll never outdo you, you tech bros. It's fucking over.

    00:51.69

    Andrew

    Wait, wait! graves keepki godam oh

    01:02.88

    Andrew

    I never thought I would hear Mark Zuckerberg with T paid singing sweat, drip down my balls.

    01:04.84

    Sean

    z pain that's what what what do you want to do you want to dissect the lyrics you want to

    01:11.18

    Andrew

    Oh, ski, ski motherfucker. Oh, ski, ski. God damn.

    01:17.79

    Andrew

    Oh my God. I found this and I was like, holy shit. Clear everything. This is all I want to talk about.

    01:32.86

    Sean

    honey

    01:32.98

    Andrew

    I think it's just fucking hilarious. And like, I can't decide if I like love it or hate it. Like I can't decide if it's the best thing ever or the most cringe thing ever. And I think I love it. And I think I love it in part because it is kind of cringe and he just doesn't give a fuck.

    01:52.89

    Sean

    for what it's worth though maybe this was the light at the this was the this was the one piece of uplifting news in recent times my executor the one who keeps us going

    02:01.14

    Andrew

    Right. Oh my God.

    02:08.17

    Andrew

    Yeah. So that, that is the, uh, Mark Zuckerberg collaboration with T-Pain. Uh, their group is unofficially or officially, I guess, Z-Pain. Um, they have one single, which is an acoustic version of Gitlo, which Mark recorded for his wife Priscilla because apparently it's the song they listened to every anniversary.

    02:28.74

    Sean

    Yep, and then you played it for her, and...

    02:32.21

    Andrew

    Is there a video of him playing it for her?

    02:33.61

    Sean

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    02:34.49

    Andrew

    Oh my God, I gotta go watch that. i I mean, he's found something that works. Being a wife guy is working for his brand right now and he is leaning all all the way in.

    02:47.07

    Andrew

    and

    02:47.21

    Sean

    Hey, you know what they say about wife guys, though?

    02:50.47

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    02:50.85

    Sean

    on the internet. okay I just hope he doesn't.

    02:53.35

    Andrew

    Yep, it's gonna blow up at some point.

    02:57.23

    Sean

    I don't think he was on the ditty list, so we'll be okay.

    02:57.61

    Andrew

    But...

    03:00.01

    Sean

    we might or Or the FC list, so we might be okay.

    03:04.72

    Andrew

    For what it's worth, I love T-Pain so much.

    03:08.46

    Sean

    Yeah, he's great. He's great.

    03:09.83

    Andrew

    T-Pain's Tiny Desk Concert is one of my all-time favorites. It's so good.

    03:13.97

    Sean

    i I just love that he is just doing side quests at the moment. Like, the guy's a genius.

    03:21.04

    Andrew

    Zuck or T-Pain?

    03:22.12

    Sean

    No, no, T-Pain. Zuck, I guess, is also doing a side quests at the moment, but like...

    03:23.46

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    03:26.12

    Sean

    I'll just like I'll watch random youtubers and like sometimes T-Pain will just show up like like that are not related to things related to him you know I'm watching like a car guy youtuber boom T-Pain's winning a drift competition yeah I'm on twitch all of a sudden or I'm not on I'm browsing twitch and all of a sudden T-Pain's a streamer I don't know yeah

    03:28.43

    Andrew

    Mm-hmm.

    03:36.42

    Andrew

    Mm hmm. Holy shit, that's cool.

    03:47.23

    Andrew

    By the way, on the Zuck side, I just listened to the acquired episode about Metta, and it made me realize that like. I feel like public perception of Metta is changing a little bit like I feel like Elon Musk buying Twitter.

    04:01.86

    Sean

    Yeah.

    04:04.11

    Andrew

    has kind of has taken a lot of the heat off of meta.

    04:06.90

    Sean

    Yeah.

    04:07.45

    Andrew

    And so now everyone's like, Elon's elon's the evil one.

    04:09.12

    Sean

    He's almost like, it could be so much worse.

    04:13.00

    Andrew

    And yeah, Elon's like, you guys think 2016 Facebook was bad?

    04:13.84

    Sean

    Yeah.

    04:19.71

    Andrew

    Bro, hold my drink.

    04:21.08

    Sean

    Listen, when you gotta be the best at everything, you know?

    04:26.64

    Andrew

    Including being a massive fucking troll.

    04:28.86

    Sean

    Yeah.

    04:30.46

    Andrew

    Yeah, but it made me realize that like I don't hate meta as much as I used to. And I i don't know if that's like.

    04:35.61...

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    Hier klicken, um den Feed zu aktualisieren.

  • Sean launches TWO free tools, and the guys brainstorm marketing ideas

    Sean launches TWO free tools, and the guys brainstorm marketing ideas

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode, Andrew and Sean talk about Halloween plans and Sean's decision to kill Stackwise. Meanwhile, Sean has launched two new free tools in the last week! The guys talk about how he did it and what his goals are for both of them. Then they spend the rest of the episode brainstorming marketing ideas for MetaMonster.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.35

    Sean

    Cool. Happy Halloween.

    00:02.59

    Andrew

    Happy Halloween.

    00:04.93

    Sean

    Are you going to any parties?

    00:05.11

    Andrew

    o

    00:08.27

    Sean

    Are you doing anything?

    00:09.37

    Andrew

    Yeah, we're so normally we go to Chicago for Halloween hang out.

    00:14.09

    Sean

    Because it's extra scary there. Sorry, go ahead.

    00:16.45

    Andrew

    What?

    00:17.99

    Sean

    It's just so scary in Chicago. and i don't know that's not why that's not why i was That's not why I was going with that.

    00:20.19

    Andrew

    Wow, that's racist, John. Fuck you, dude.

    00:26.99

    Sean

    Jeez, I'm kidding.

    00:29.92

    Andrew

    fucking New Yorkers hating on Chicago. Gross.

    00:33.16

    Sean

    That's not racist. I'm just elitist. That's different.

    00:38.29

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:39.11

    Andrew

    normally we go to Chicago because, uh, a bunch of Maddie's best friends from high school all live there and they throw a Halloween party every year. So normally early we go and we go out with them and we go to like one bar and then we go get, uh, like shitty Greek food and then we go home.

    00:46.34

    Sean

    yeah

    00:56.68

    Sean

    Nice.

    00:57.84

    Andrew

    but this year we decided to stay in Detroit, because we love Halloween and we love decorating for Halloween and. We've never gotten to be in Detroit for Halloween, we really want to pass out candy this year so tomorrow, which will probably be today by the time I get this published.

    01:16.54

    Andrew

    We're gonna hang out, pass out candy, go drink some beers with our neighbors. And then Saturday, one of our best friends is throwing a haunted carnival party.

    01:27.46

    Andrew

    It's her second year in a row throwing this like haunted carnival themed Halloween party.

    01:30.91

    Sean

    Sick.

    01:32.68

    Andrew

    So we're gonna go to the haunted carnival party and Maddie's dressing up as a ringmaster and I'm dressing up dressing up as a lion.

    01:39.02

    Sean

    Nice.

    01:39.91

    Andrew

    She's like a ringmaster lion tamer and then I'm a lion.

    01:42.17

    Sean

    Yeah, hell yeah.

    01:43.56

    Andrew

    So it's gonna be fun.

    01:44.70

    Sean

    Sick.

    01:46.43

    Andrew

    Yeah, what about you?

    01:48.22

    Sean

    I'm debating on whether or not there's this like Instagram, ah like ah ah actually been sorry. I don't even know what they are. There's just like some cool internet website thing called shell tech that they're like a band or or producer do, or I don't, I don't fucking know.

    02:02.36

    Sean

    They just make music. It's apparently dropped the new album.

    02:03.90

    Andrew

    Fun.

    02:05.31

    Sean

    They have like an album party tomorrow and I think it's for, so maybe that, or maybe I'll be in my room jamming away.

    02:08.48

    Andrew

    pun

    02:16.05

    Sean

    on whether or not stackwise has a future because i am uh-huh yeah

    02:19.88

    Andrew

    wait Wait, wait, pause before we get too far into that. Can you just tell me a little bit about like what Halloween is like in New York? I'm so curious.

    02:32.57

    Andrew

    Like Yeah.

    02:33.00

    Sean

    what is how yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like uh well in queens it's super cute it's very residential you know so everyone like especially in a lot of kids in the neighborhood they walk around and they get candy and there's like really nice areas in queens that people will go to and there's like halloween decorations and stuff yeah exactly exactly the full skies can i think it's a trap i think that's like a like

    02:52.01

    Andrew

    Got to go get the full size candy bars. I went to Costco today and I was this close to buying the full size bars, but yeah, I'm not actually sure it's better.

    03:03.66

    Andrew

    I'm not sure giving out full size bars is better. Like my plan is to give out a big old handful of candy and, and then you get a mix of candy and you get to like spread it out a little.

    03:05.94

    Sean

    Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

    03:14.05

    Andrew

    Whereas if I give you a full size bar, you're going to eat it super fast.

    03:18.14

    Sean

    I was just gonna say, like, the expectation of being in a house that gives full-sized candy bars, that's dangerous.

    03:21.100

    Andrew

    Oh yeah. Once you go, once you go full size, you can't go back.

    03:24.58

    Sean

    Yeah. Exactly. You can't, you can't roll back the whatever.

    03:27.20

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    03:30.16

    Sean

    Yeah. But like, yeah.

    03:34.39

    Andrew

    It was 20 bucks for 30 full size bars or 20 bucks for like a five pound bag of candy.

    03:40.29

    Sean

    Yeah, see?

    03:40.72

    Andrew

    And so I was like.

    03:42.09

    Sean

    Did you see that meme of, uh, one of the fuh- uh, like, fuh in a Halloween bucket?

    03:47.49

    Andrew

    Yes, that was so good.

    03:47.91

    Sean

    And it's like, one ...

  • Sean has new momentum, and Andrew gets feedback on designs

    Sean has new momentum, and Andrew gets feedback on designs

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode, Sean discusses the challenges he is facing (and his new momentum) with his project Stackwise, including finding the right developer and getting the project scope defined. He talks about discovering a no-code tool called Subframe that has helped streamline his design process. Andrew shares his progress building the MetaMonster website with Astro and SpinalCMS, and gets feedback from Sean on the first round of MetaMonster wireframes. They also discuss pricing models and ideas for holding company names.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/New MetaMonster website built with Astro: https://metamonster.ai/MetaMonster prototype designs: Click hereChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...Podscan: https://podscan.fm/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.76

    Sean

    The yeah motivation for the podcast is brought to you by Arvid Kahl, the creator of Podscan.

    00:09.01

    Andrew

    Hi, Arvid.

    00:10.02

    Sean

    Hi Arvid. Shout out to Arvid.

    00:13.06

    Andrew

    Podscan, Podscan, Podscan.

    00:14.76

    Sean

    Yeah, the creator of Podscan, excellent tool, doesn't sponsor us, but but has been the reason why we've had three founders reach out to us on Twitter now.

    00:25.94

    Sean

    So that's pretty cool. It's kind of just like a modern day summoning ritual at this point, Beatlejuice.

    00:33.81

    Andrew

    By the way, what did you say is brought to you by podscan? Did you say like, did you say this podcast sounded like you said like the wrong name of our podcast?

    00:39.44

    Sean

    Oh, the oh this episode no, the motivation, the motivation for ah ah for for this podcast, the the the motivation to do today's episode.

    00:47.14

    Andrew

    Oh, okay.

    00:50.86

    Sean

    Yeah, yeah.

    00:51.40

    Andrew

    Got it. Got it.

    00:52.63

    Sean

    Yeah. Now that we are a full minute in.

    00:54.17

    Andrew

    Cool, man.

    00:55.65

    Sean

    but

    00:57.34

    Andrew

    How are you? What's going on?

    00:58.79

    Sean

    I'm good. I'm good. Remember how I was super stressed last week about stack-wise and the lack of movement on it?

    01:08.93

    Andrew

    Mm hmm.

    01:10.11

    Sean

    So I I put some more budget towards it, a little bit more, and just or like a ah you know mentally committed more budget to it.

    01:17.41

    Andrew

    Cool.

    01:21.40

    Sean

    And checked out Lemon.io. a little bit more expensive than I think. We'll see. I don't know. I checked Alumni.

    01:29.78

    Andrew

    Yeah, fair.

    01:30.22

    Sean

    I also went on Upwork to look for devs. Had some like interesting proposals come in. Then I was talking to a dev and He looked really promising. He was like 75 bucks an hour, is like about lemon I.O. prices. So and you know, he he like like takes supplements and and whatnot. So he has some realm of understanding. And then he hit me with a he'd so he reviewed the he reviewed the current code and everything. And then he hit me with a yeah, if you want me to like fully scope it, I'm going to need you to like actually give me user stories and like better Figma wireframes.

    02:10.35

    Andrew

    Like actually project manage and like build a scope and everything like via products manager.

    02:11.90

    Sean

    Yeah, yeah, like actually do it. I know, I know. And then I was like, wow, that's really annoying. I guess that's kind of fair, I guess. um It's hard to so like really feel like I've put my foot best foot forward on this project without having done that. So I did it. I wrote a PRD. I wrote a bunch of user stories. I mean, I had one in the past that was like a loose bullet pointed list, but this was like a little bit more official.

    02:35.52

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    02:37.13

    Sean

    and then I, and then I sort of wireframe, like rewire framing some stuff in Figma. and, uh, you know, that, that, that for a little bit was pushing back my timeline.

    02:48.31

    Sean

    i have a day job which takes more time out of my which takes more than just my regular day so it's like ah like I got maybe like two screens into the fig into the Figma part and I was like damn I really don't want to go like do this all over again because like I have shitty wireframes right I don't um um uh and oh oh and and in the meantime like as as these guys were like reviewing it i i kind of felt a little bit uh like uh like like i don't know at a just like an informational disadvantage a little bit so

    03:24.97

    Sean

    I've also just watched a shit ton of Laravel tutorials and Laravel things. now now I kind of like mostly understand Laravel and PHP, not to a degree that I can write it, but to a degree that I can read it and know what's going on and and like and make edits and stuff.

    03:39.55

    Andrew

    Mm hmm.

    03:42.17

    Sean

    So, you know, I was able to kind of review the proposals a little bit better. That's been my last week until yesterday. And then I remembered that there is this thing I saw, which was a no code frontend React, like build at with tailwind components, or build with like like React components export as React code and tailwind. And it's called subframe, YC startup, super, super small. I don't know how small they are, but very small following.

    04:12.66

    Sean

    Excellent product. God, it's so good.

    04:15.69

    Andrew

    Cool.

    04:15.54

    Sean

    And not only is it good, it feels like a mix between Figma and Webflow, except I'm kind of working with like components. And i if I want more components, I have to make more make them on my own.

    04:25.92

    Sean

    But there's a long list of just basically subframe versions of Tailwind components. And it makes me way happier to be designing in this than designing in Figma, mainly because I hate the idea that if I'm going to desi...

  • How to pick a CMS and the challenges of building part time

    How to pick a CMS and the challenges of building part time

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode Andrew tries to pick a CMS for the new MetaMonster website and talks about his dream solution. Then the guys talk about their ideal consulting businesses. Meanwhile Sean is feeling frustrated by how slow his projects are moving, and wishes he could focus on them fulltime for a bit. They also touch on the difficulties of balancing attention to design details versus just getting a product out the door quickly. Finally, Sean shares 3 businesses he loves.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00:00.01

    Sean

    Uh, yeah, I mean, I was going to talk about, well, I should have your record.

    00:00:05.81

    Andrew

    Do you want to start over?

    00:00:07.50

    Sean

    No, it just let's just roll with it. Hi, everyone.

    00:00:10.80

    Andrew

    Hi, how's it going? Behind the scenes look at Andrew and Sean being a bit of a clusterfuck trying to figure out what the hell the pod about 30 seconds before the pod or five seconds after the pod.

    00:00:12.65

    Sean

    Good.

    00:00:20.21

    Sean

    We're very organized or we're incredibly organized. think, I think it's a good segue into, into like, we can talk about like other service business and I have a segue into it because I was kind of curious about just how your consulting is sort of going now that.

    00:00:34.65

    Andrew

    Okay.

    00:00:35.35

    Sean

    Yeah. but more importantly, some crazy, crazy, crazy tech Twitter stuff going on these days, huh?

    00:00:42.87

    Andrew

    Oh, so when i when I said I wanted to talk about CMSs, yeah the WordPress drama, I feel like we covered a little bit last time.

    00:00:42.94

    Sean

    Since the last.

    00:00:49.11

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:00:49.88

    Andrew

    There's more updates. it's It keeps getting wackier.

    00:00:53.21

    Sean

    Mm hmm.

    00:00:53.72

    Andrew

    The WordPress founder took over a plugin, which is batshit crazy.

    00:00:59.63

    Sean

    Yeah, I was just going to go from crazy batshit WordPress things into maybe Ghost and then CMS's house imagining.

    00:01:08.50

    Andrew

    Uh, sorry, I totally fucked your, your segue there.

    00:01:09.97

    Sean

    No.

    00:01:13.12

    Andrew

    yeah, anyway, I need to build a website and I'm trying to pick a CMS and I want you to, to I want you to tell me which CMS to use and I'm gonna, I'm gonna like ignore you and tell you why you're wrong on every CMS.

    00:01:22.11

    Sean

    squarepace Okay.

    00:01:26.46

    Andrew

    Like, because they all suck.

    00:01:26.71

    Sean

    Okay. Hit me. Hit me. They do all suck, but hit me.

    00:01:31.00

    Andrew

    Okay. So I think I have it narrowed down. I wanted to use, so I'm trying to build a proper marketing site for MetaMonster so that I can get a little bit of SEO stuff rolling and then publish some content and just like have a place to do marketing.

    00:01:51.26

    Andrew

    um want to build some free tools, want to do some other things to just start building building the list, our waiting list.

    00:01:54.30

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:01:59.89

    Andrew

    So need to pick a CMS. would typically just build on Webflow. Like Webflow is so fast. It's what I built chart juice on. It's clunky, it's expensive, it has its problems. The CMS sucks if you're doing a lot of content, but for like early stage SaaS website, I don't know many things better. So would typically just do Webflow. But I know one of the marketing channels I wanna try is building

    00:02:32.68

    Andrew

    some free tools to try to drive, get like SEO juice from, from free tools and like some traffic. it just aligns perfectly with MetaMonster, you know, having a free like, enter a link or copy and paste your content in and we'll generate a page title for you. We'll generate a meta description for you. Like it just makes too much sense. Um, and sorry, one second. Let me let my cat in.

    00:02:57.67

    Sean

    got

    00:02:58.58

    Andrew

    Come on in you dork.

    00:03:01.38

    Andrew

    Okay. So yeah, I want to build free tools and like.

    00:03:03.43

    Sean

    You want to build free tools. It's great. It isn't a monster.

    00:03:08.40

    Andrew

    The process of doing that in Webflow is just clunky. I could yeah know i could build them, host them on some free thing like Netlify, and then just like run them on a subdomain.

    00:03:19.66

    Andrew

    But you know if the whole point is SEO, then running it on a subdomain is a little counterproductive. you know It's not the worst thing in the world, I guess, but you're just like, do they now?

    00:03:28.86

    Sean

    does it you I thought subdomains count as the main domains. like Yeah, I thought that was the whole thing.

    00:03:38.16

    Andrew

    I feel, oh, okay, I need to look into that. Cause that would massively simplify my my problems.

    00:03:44.34

    Sean

    right

    00:03:46.07

    Andrew

    I always thought like best practice was to do everything on your primary domain and that like subdomains got treated differently.

    00:03:52.10

    Sean

    I thought that

    00:03:56.09

    Andrew

    You're looking it up.

    00:03:57.51

    Sean

    Yeah, I'm looking it up. I feel like it was something.

    00:04:01.40

    Andrew

    There was a Google update, like in this, one of these new big updates, they they started

    00:04:02.81

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:04:06.13

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:04:07.62

    Andrew

    Mashing it all together.

    00:04:08.89

    Sean

    Yeah. I mean, Ahrefs literally pulls shop.mistreins.com and mistreins.com into one thing now for me.

    00:04:16.03

    Andrew

    Interesting.

    00:04:16.97

    Sean

    So. I don't know. Yea...

  • Sean's trip got ruined by dev work, and Andrew is getting traction with a new product

    Sean's trip got ruined by dev work, and Andrew is getting traction with a new product

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Sean just got back from two weeks in Korea and Japan. His trip got derailed when he had to jump in to put out fires and finish some Webflow dev work for a client. He and Andrew talk about the challenges of removing yourself from the day-to-day as an agency owner and how to balance work and time off.

    Andrew gives an update on the client work he's doing with Miscreants, his decision to put ChartJuice on the backburner, and the traction he's seeing with a new product (MetaMonster) he's working on with a partner. MetaMonster helps SEO agencies automate metadata cleanup using AI. He already has 3 agencies/consultants signed on to be design partners and is working on getting more.

    We wrap up with an outsider's explanation of all the Wordpress drama going on right now.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00:01.77

    Sean

    What's up? I wanna go see.

    00:00:03.30

    Andrew

    Miss you.

    00:00:04.17

    Sean

    I wanna see you too. I wanna see you too.

    00:00:05.85

    Andrew

    How are you?

    00:00:06.85

    Sean

    Good. I feel like I saw you in person and then all of a sudden I was in Korea and Japan and then I...

    00:00:13.69

    Andrew

    Yeah, shit. That was like not, not far apart, was it?

    00:00:14.59

    Sean

    So... It wasn't... My last memory of the US was being at your place and drinking cocktails. So, yeah.

    00:00:26.00

    Andrew

    That's a good night.

    00:00:26.91

    Sean

    It was a good night. It was a good night. We played basketball.

    00:00:30.25

    Andrew

    but that was Oh my God.

    00:00:32.10

    Sean

    Play is a strong word. We attempted basketball.

    00:00:35.25

    Andrew

    We threw basketballs around in the dark and like one or two of them went into a basket.

    00:00:40.26

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:00:40.26

    Andrew

    Oh my God. You made me feel a lot better though. Cause I was like, I was like, Sean's going to smoke me. Like he's going to be so embarrassed at how bad at basketball I am and you are just as bad as I am.

    00:00:51.77

    Andrew

    So I was like, okay, cool.

    00:00:56.81

    Sean

    Yeah. I think about like how like my first million has that basketball camp. Just like there's no way all these people are that good at basketball.

    00:01:08.14

    Andrew

    I love the image of like Sean Burry is just like, you know, making people like, uh, like bring over a step stool or something so he can dunk. He's like, but then he he goes on my first million and talks about it and he's like, yeah, it was awesome.

    00:01:17.33

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:01:23.65

    Sean

    Yeah, I hit every sh- I hit- I banked every shot.

    00:01:26.87

    Andrew

    No, I think like there are a lot of people in tech who are actually athletic because they played sports at some point in their life.

    00:01:35.34

    Sean

    Yeah, probably.

    00:01:35.70

    Andrew

    And then, and then there's the rest of us who got into tech because we were nerds and liked computers.

    00:01:42.01

    Sean

    Yeah. Oh. Plus, I mean, you rock climb. Like, you're pretty athletic.

    00:01:47.12

    Andrew

    I haven't been rock climbing in like two months.

    00:01:47.27

    Sean

    You- you just suck the best at work.

    00:01:51.37

    Sean

    Oh.

    00:01:51.95

    Andrew

    I am actually going rock climbing outside in with some friends in two weeks, and I'm like, I should probably go climb a wall in the gym before I go, because I haven't climbed in like two or three months, so.

    00:01:51.93

    Sean

    Okay.

    00:01:55.81

    Sean

    Oh, cool.

    00:02:00.09

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:02:02.82

    Sean

    and Get those forearm muscles pumping again.

    00:02:05.99

    Andrew

    I gotta get my skin. My skin's gonna.

    00:02:07.90

    Sean

    Right.

    00:02:09.20

    Andrew

    like be shredded if I if I don't climb at all and then go try to climb outside so I feel like it takes me like two or three climbs before my skin starts to thicken up again

    00:02:19.51

    Sean

    you know what you can do there's this guy on tiktok he pours i don't know what it is but something really sticky on his hands so he like is like a martial artist or something and it's like it's like epoxy or something and he basically just rubs it on his hand and or like sand papers down his hand basically and until it gets super super rough he just does it every single day on tiktok it's gross.

    00:02:40.15

    Sean

    It's terrible. And you can like, oh, oh, it's, uh, it's like floor wax.

    00:02:43.18

    Andrew

    And so then it like grows back thicker or something?

    00:02:45.40

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like floor wax basically.

    00:02:47.63

    Andrew

    Wait, wait, wait. We were talking about the wrong thing. How was your fucking trip?

    00:02:48.09

    Sean

    he just like, and he also puts his hand next to the microphone and it's like the worst version of ASMR you've ever heard in your life. It's like worst at misophonia. Um.

    00:02:57.48

    Andrew

    wait wait wait we're talking about the wrong thing how was your fucking trip

    00:03:03.02

    Sean

    Well, much like listening to really shit awful man hands. It was. It was good to attempt a vacation.

    00:03:17.29

    Andrew

    Oh, no.

    00:03:18.12

    Sean

    It was not it is it is not what I would call a vacation.

    00:03:18.68

    Andrew

    Oh, no, Sean.

    00:03:23.61

    Sean

    It sucked. It sucked to be honest with you. It was like it.

    00:03:26.96

    Andrew

    Brutal.

    00:03:26.33

    Sean

    Yeah, yeah, y...

  • Getting called out, finding new data sources, and how to interpret user research

    Getting called out, finding new data sources, and how to interpret user research

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode, Andrew and Sean got hit up by someone clearly using Podscan... again! They talk about it, then Andrew shares details about his recent trip to Mexico City, including highlights like a hot air balloon ride over the pyramids and an exciting Lucha Libre wrestling match.


    Sean provides an update on Stackwise, discussing the data sources they've uncovered and the challenges of building a comprehensive database. Meanwhile, Andrew delves into the validation process for his latest SEO-focused startup idea, weighing the pros and cons of targeting different user segments.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...Podscan.fm: https://podscan.fm/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:01.71

    Sean

    You know what we should rename our podcast tagline to?

    00:05.21

    Andrew

    sandwich free.

    00:06.47

    Sean

    No, not same.

    00:09.97

    Andrew

    What is that?

    00:10.48

    Sean

    No, the best case study that Podscan works.

    00:15.95

    Sean

    We should be front page on Podscan FM.

    00:18.73

    Andrew

    Genuinely, we should we should reach out to it's not Arjun. What's his name, Arran?

    00:24.60

    Sean

    I have no idea. I don't know who makes Podscan. I just know about it.

    00:27.08

    Andrew

    Oh, he's he's the dude who's the. ah ah Oh, fuck, I signed out of Twitter everywhere. so that I wouldn't get distracted.

    00:36.50

    Sean

    Nice. I'll look it up.

    00:37.86

    Andrew

    Arlen, something like that, he built he built like class dojo or he he built some like teaching software with his wife, sold it.

    00:48.13

    Sean

    Arvid. Arvid.

    00:48.97

    Andrew

    Arvid, Arvid call, that's his name.

    00:49.57

    Sean

    Arvid.

    00:51.16

    Andrew

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, if avid has a and Arvid hot scan trigger, we'll find out.

    00:56.81

    Sean

    Yeah, we'll find out. Arvid.

    00:59.14

    Andrew

    So, hey Arvid.

    00:59.99

    Sean

    Arvid call. Arvid call. Arvid call. Feedback panda. Arvid call.

    01:03.88

    Andrew

    feed neck to end there, that's what it was.

    01:06.67

    Sean

    Zero to sold, or we'd call. Alright, maybe we'll summon him for the next one.

    01:12.62

    Andrew

    Yeah, that was wild. So, I get...

    01:18.40

    Andrew

    I forget which podcast episodes we've published because I'm behind. So I like didn't even realize I'd published that episode.

    01:24.75

    Sean

    Yeah.

    01:24.82

    Andrew

    But we published a podcast episode where we were kind of like, I was hating on intro. You're pro intro. I was hating on intro.

    01:32.17

    Sean

    Uh-huh.

    01:33.57

    Andrew

    And then the CEO of intro tweeted at us this week and was like, here's why you're wrong and why intro is great.

    01:39.63

    Sean

    not Really, it's not really a tweet. It was kind of an essay, actually. It was kind of like, yeah, yeah.

    01:42.93

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    01:44.32

    Sean

    But that's the second time someone famous on the internet has hit us up on Twitter because of that.

    01:49.41

    Andrew

    I wish they would fucking promote our podcast when they treat at us.

    01:56.45

    Sean

    I don't know.

    01:56.90

    Andrew

    Instead of doing it so subtly.

    01:57.13

    Sean

    I feel like this is a secret and feel like there's a little secret growth hack in there, you know?

    02:01.18

    Andrew

    Yeah, but the girth hack only works if they like tell people about you.

    02:06.72

    Sean

    No, no, no, no, no. I think that you can leverage it for, for more reach.

    02:08.29

    Andrew

    To become biffles.

    02:12.19

    Sean

    Cause if I, cause if I reply to his thing, I'm, you know, I feel like there's enough Twitter engagement there in in the, you know, get the algo going and, and, and you know, what is beef marketing?

    02:22.26

    Andrew

    Is this like even grosser beef marketing?

    02:27.16

    Andrew

    Beef marketing is when you start beef with somebody just for like the views and the clicks.

    02:30.09

    Sean

    Oh, I see.

    02:35.19

    Andrew

    So obnoxious.

    02:36.88

    Sean

    I say yeah.

    02:37.09

    Andrew

    yeah who's You know who's the king of beef marketing?

    02:41.16

    Sean

    No. Who's the king of beef marketing?

    02:42.94

    Andrew

    DHH. DHH is the

    02:44.69

    Sean

    Oh.

    02:45.98

    Andrew

    The king, the founder, the creator, the the god of beef marketing.

    02:51.86

    Sean

    Right, right, right.

    02:52.08

    Andrew

    That man can start beef with anybody.

    02:54.78

    Sean

    right say well What's his full name? Just in case pods can.

    02:56.89

    Andrew

    David Heinemeyer Hanson.

    02:58.48

    Sean

    OK, cool, cool, cool. Basecamp, basecamp, basecamp. Maybe he uses Podscan too. Yeah. Yeah. Jason.

    03:08.45

    Sean

    Yeah. I don't know. I think he has good ideas sometimes.

    03:14.37

    Andrew

    What did you actually think of the intro guy's response to us? I can no longer pull up because I logged myself out of Twitter and don't want to log back in.

    03:23.34

    Sean

    you know i think i appreciated the thoughtful response um um on it that's kind of

    03:29.13

    Andrew

    You want to summarize real quick?

    03:29.28

    Sean

    weirded I was weirded out yeah I was weird for what's worth a a little bit weird out kind of kind of weird ...

  • Freemium and new goals

    Freemium and new goals

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Note: This episode was supposed to come out a couple of weeks ago. But Andrew forgot to attach the audio file when he went to publish, so it's just been sitting in our podcast hosting software. Sorry about that.

    In this episode, Andrew and Sean dig into Paul Graham's founder mode essay that has gone viral in the past couple of weeks. Spoiler alert: Andrew is not a fan.

    Sean talks about the challenges of evolving client demands with Miscreants, while Andrew recounts his experiences in Mexico City and his decision to pivot ChartJuice towards a freemium model.

    Then they talk through some of Andrew's new AI-related business ideas, including automating marketing graphics and financial modeling for agencies, and his new co-founder and year-end goals.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.63

    Sean

    Can I start this podcast off by reading you a quote?

    00:06.34

    Andrew

    Sure, I'm so curious.

    00:10.28

    Sean

    um Have you seen the Ted Chiang essay about Gen AI?

    00:15.59

    Andrew

    No.

    00:16.55

    Sean

    okay um It was on The New Yorker. he okay so

    00:20.85

    Andrew

    For a second, when you said JIN AI, I thought J-E-N, and I thought this was like some new AI company I hadn't heard of that named their AI JIN, as in short for Jennifer, and then I realized I'm an idiot, and you're talking about generative AI.

    00:34.68

    Andrew

    so

    00:35.09

    Sean

    Well, there's there's a startup called, I think, Jim, it's like a 25 year old like Korean person who Korean guy um and he like did like the rounds on YouTube for a little bit about how he like went from like broke to 100 million in net worth overnight because.

    00:35.41

    Andrew

    ah

    00:41.20

    Andrew

    Oh, that's cool.

    00:51.05

    Andrew

    Jesus Christ. What?

    00:52.11

    Sean

    um I mean, it was like the dawn of like LLM stuff and jennna I had just started so.

    00:57.32

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    00:57.44

    Sean

    adam

    00:57.71

    Andrew

    Okay. All right. Hit me with the quote.

    00:59.67

    Sean

    Okay, so let me just preface this. Ted Chiang, excellent sci-fi writer, um um ah wrote a really great book called Exhalation, one of my favorites.

    01:10.54

    Sean

    um

    01:10.83

    Andrew

    Oh, I've been wanting to read that.

    01:12.94

    Sean

    Yeah, excellent, excellent book.

    01:15.57

    Andrew

    Cool.

    01:16.59

    Sean

    Would recommend, there's like a two page story in there that I really, really like. But, um You know, this this would have been great if i if I had it pull up, and I didn't.

    01:28.60

    Andrew

    Had it pulled up if you were prepared.

    01:31.18

    Sean

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's not how we do things. we you You know what? I can't find in this article. So I'm going to pull it up on a Slack thing.

    01:42.69

    Sean

    OK. um It's just the task that generative a generative AI has been most successful at is lowering our expectations. um And I was like, damn.

    01:54.53

    Andrew

    Oh, interesting.

    01:55.78

    Sean

    hot take yeah uh

    01:57.03

    Andrew

    How do, okay. So how do you interpret that?

    02:00.61

    Sean

    well um i sent it as like a kind of honestly like uh

    02:05.49

    Andrew

    Do you agree?

    02:10.72

    Sean

    Yeah, yeah, I do. um I don't agree with his essay. I think his essay about how his essay is about how Gen AI won't ever make art, and I think that's arguably true, um but I think that he misses the fact that Gen AI would be an art form, and people will use it the way that they make art with Photoshop and then collage things together.

    02:25.42

    Andrew

    Sure, but at that point, it's not Gen AI making the art, I don't think. I think it's human artists making art using Gen AI as a medium or a tool.

    02:29.77

    Sean

    you

    02:35.06

    Sean

    Agreed, agreed.

    02:35.66

    Andrew

    ah like I think what he's saying is like the thing that Gen AI, at least in its current form, can't think.

    02:36.21

    Sean

    hence in

    02:43.90

    Andrew

    right it doesn't It doesn't produce creative thought.

    02:44.72

    Sean

    Right.

    02:46.78

    Andrew

    it's not It's not actually that intelligent, even though it's really good at looking intelligent.

    02:47.70

    Sean

    Right.

    02:53.73

    Sean

    Right.

    02:53.80

    Andrew

    um it just it repeats it guesses it and you know there's still this possibility that if we like scale it up enough we find out that that's all we do anyway and original thought is all just like guessing and repeating and suddenly it's doing what we can do but like we think that most likely we will need a new technological revolution like and a different form of AI technology paired with

    02:58.14

    Sean

    Yeah. yeah

    03:13.96

    Sean

    Sure.

    03:25.17

    Andrew

    paired with or that replaces our current. Anyway, sorry, you know all this shit I'm preaching to the choir.

    03:28.49

    Sean

    know um Well, to go back to the quote, I absolutely think it's true.

    03:33.93

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    03:34.93

    Sean

    I actually think Gen. AI makes incredibly mid stuff. um Yeah.

    03:39.30

    Andrew

    Yeah, for the most part. Yeah.

    03:41.52

    Sean

    But I think we are always astounded by it because of the speed at which it can make incredibly mid stuff is impressive.

    03:41.64

    Andrew

    um

    03:48.77

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    03:50.11

    Sean

    And that's I think that's lowering expectat...

  • How do you know when to quit?

    How do you know when to quit?

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode, Andrew talks about his upcoming trip to Mexico City, which started as a potential plan to live there but has evolved into a working vacation. Sean talks about recent challenges in his agency, including team members getting sick after conferences and some project misfires with smaller clients.

    Andrew then gives an update on the lukewarm progress he's seeing with ChartJuice (complete with raw metrics) and again ponders a freemium pivot. He's grappling with the question - how do you know when to give up on a SaaS product?

    They wrap up by debating whether shelling out big bucks for 15 minutes with a big shot is worth it or just a fancy way to burn cash.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00:01.34

    Sean

    but what up what up

    00:00:02.64

    Andrew

    Not much, just ah trying to get a full week of work done for the first time in what feels like weeks um in part because I am headed to Mexico City next week.

    00:00:09.84

    Sean

    yeah well

    00:00:14.45

    Andrew

    um And I'll be working from there, but the first week I'm only going to have like two days because um Maddie gets in like midday Thursday.

    00:00:14.79

    Sean

    yeah

    00:00:24.72

    Andrew

    I'm traveling Monday. um We've got plans Friday um and Thursday afternoon. So it's like, yeah, I'm i'm not getting shit done.

    00:00:35.69

    Sean

    are you Are you going, like, is there a reason you're going or are you just going to hang out because you like.

    00:00:35.75

    Andrew

    So.

    00:00:41.99

    Andrew

    um It started with like Maddie and I had kind of talked about like this pipe dream of maybe living in Mexico City one day.

    00:00:49.90

    Sean

    Oh.

    00:00:50.25

    Andrew

    um Part of me really wants to live in a Spanish speaking country at some point um so that I can become properly fluent because I've been taking Spanish lessons um almost every week for the last like year and some change.

    00:01:04.58

    Sean

    OK.

    00:01:05.07

    Andrew

    um and so And I've just always wanted to be fluent in Spanish. So this was kind of supposed to be a test run. It was a goal I set for myself this year. I was like, all right, I'm taking this year off. I'm focusing on startup shit. But I also want to make sure I still get in at least one long backpacking trip, which I did with my dad. And then I want to go to Mexico City for a couple weeks.

    00:01:25.52

    Sean

    Oh yeah.

    00:01:25.58

    Andrew

    um So, um yeah, the plan is to kind of work from there and try to like, try to spend some time.

    00:01:37.70

    Andrew

    We're going to, again, take some days, have some fun, explore, but then also have some days where it's like go to a working space ah and just like live a normal life.

    00:01:41.52

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah.

    00:01:48.19

    Andrew

    um I think that like the odds of moving to Mexico City are not very high anymore, like it just doesn't feel like it's probably going to fit into like our life plan.

    00:02:00.44

    Sean

    Mm

    00:02:00.83

    Andrew

    um But I think that I um would still strongly consider going for a longer stint at some point.

    00:02:03.94

    Sean

    -hmm.

    00:02:10.30

    Andrew

    So like the school I take lessons from is based in Puebla, which is, like I think, like two hours from Mexico City. So if I like it a lot and you this continues to be a goal, then I might, at some point, go spend a couple months at the school to try to become fluent.

    00:02:30.28

    Sean

    Nice, nice. Have I ever told you that I have a pipe dreamer living in Vegas?

    00:02:37.53

    Andrew

    Yeah, yeah, we've talked about it.

    00:02:38.27

    Sean

    good Okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Because I want to be fluid in losing all my money at the casino.

    00:02:42.93

    Andrew

    yeah

    00:02:45.71

    Sean

    That's cool.

    00:02:45.76

    Andrew

    You just want DEFCON year round, huh?

    00:02:48.13

    Sean

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. um

    00:02:51.19

    Andrew

    DEFCON's a lot of fun. That sounds awful. DEFCON year round sounds like the worst thing in the world.

    00:02:55.66

    Sean

    You know, there's a new there's a new conference now that's like going to be the new new big thing, um supposedly.

    00:02:59.98

    Andrew

    Really?

    00:03:00.66

    Sean

    Yeah, it goes. It's the Monday right after DEFCON and Black Hat. It's called A.I. 4. It's like the new hotness because it's all like A.I. stuff. It's a corporate event. um

    00:03:10.75

    Andrew

    Hotness outside of cybersecurity.

    00:03:12.58

    Sean

    No, like in in cybersecurity as well.

    00:03:15.31

    Andrew

    But but like it has broader reach than cybersecurity?

    00:03:17.72

    Sean

    I think so. I think so.

    00:03:19.29

    Andrew

    OK.

    00:03:19.74

    Sean

    I think so. I haven't looked so much into it. I just know that, like, yeah. I just know that. Well, my guess is it's going to be like the black hat, but for AI, basically. um

    00:03:28.63

    Andrew

    What was the old hotness?

    00:03:30.68

    Sean

    Black hat.

    00:03:32.12

    Andrew

    But like outside of cybersecurity, what was the old hotness?

    00:03:32.46

    Sean

    Black hat artist thing. Oh, I have no idea. I don't know.

    00:03:35.77

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    00:03:36.17

    Sean

    ah yeah um Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    00:03:37.85

    Andrew

    Not your job.

    00:03:41.49

    Sean

    Not my area of expertise. um That's cool. I didn't know you were taking Spanish lessons lesss that regularly. I had no idea.

    00:03:50.11

    Andrew

    Yeah, although I actually haven't taken a lesson in like the past three weeks be...

  • Defcon, apparel sales, and Google ads

    Defcon, apparel sales, and Google ads

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    In this episode, Sean gives a recap on shirt sales, his annual Korean BBQ dinner, and more from DEF CON. Andrew shares some feedback he got from the client project he's been working on, and dives into the early results he's seeing from running Google Ads for ChartJuice. Andrew reveals his latest mile times from his half marathon training, and the guys talk about how much impact you could make in congressional elections with some basic digital marketing chops.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00:00.75

    Sean

    What up, what up? Long time no see.

    00:00:02.71

    Andrew

    Yeah, how's it going? Can't wait to hear all about Defcon.

    00:00:07.02

    Sean

    Good. I can't wait to tell you all about DEFCON. A little sniffly. Definitely have conflu.

    00:00:14.04

    Andrew

    Concrud.

    00:00:14.49

    Sean

    Yeah, a couple friends. A couple friends I've also got in COVID. There's, I think, all that stuff.

    00:00:19.25

    Andrew

    Ouch.

    00:00:20.33

    Sean

    um I'll test again later. So far, so good. But ah yeah, we'll see. um Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been hectic.

    00:00:31.74

    Sean

    Got back yesterday at 5am because my plane got delayed, and that was brutal. But it's the first time I've ever used my priority pass for a lounge. So that was kind of cool. um But before we get into Defcon, what have you been up to?

    00:00:43.45

    Andrew

    pun What?

    00:00:45.64

    Sean

    What's been, what's been going on?

    00:00:47.21

    Andrew

    what No, no, no, no, no. We got to start with Defcon.

    00:00:48.83

    Sean

    Okay.

    00:00:49.58

    Andrew

    and Defcon is is the big news here.

    00:00:50.65

    Sean

    All right, fine.

    00:00:51.69

    Andrew

    I've got i've got some some little tattoo stuff to talk about, but ah yeah no you I want to start with Defcon.

    00:00:54.82

    Sean

    Okay.

    00:00:58.31

    Andrew

    and

    00:00:58.87

    Sean

    All right, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. Defend was good, Black Hat was good, Black, I'll start with the Black Hat. I went to the, shout out to Lucas Nelson, and he handed me to the Investors and Innovators Summit. um So first I'm going to like a summit at Black Hat.

    00:01:14.64

    Sean

    um

    00:01:14.94

    Andrew

    Huh.

    00:01:15.56

    Sean

    ah ah like I got to go that to that basically like for free which is cool and so I just decided not to pay for an expo pass this year terrible idea by the way like I really want to pay for an expo pass it's 800 bucks and like I don't really like it's not like I go for sales so I kind of just go to meet our clients but probably should have paid a hundred bucks to just go like like go to a booth

    00:01:25.56

    Andrew

    Oh no.

    00:01:37.19

    Andrew

    Why? Why do you say that?

    00:01:39.28

    Sean

    Um, I think I felt, okay, one, I think I felt a little bit of FOMO not seeing stuff at Black Hat and the expo floor. Um, I mean, in part didn't have like that much time to walk the floor.

    00:01:53.41

    Sean

    Definitely met people outside of the expo floor. So it was fine overall. I think it was just felt very weird not to like go do the whole expo thing that I always done every year. Um,

    00:02:05.12

    Andrew

    You all have never set up like a booth at Black Hat, have you?

    00:02:08.15

    Sean

    No, not for us, only for our clients.

    00:02:08.79

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    00:02:10.64

    Sean

    um But I think it's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we would never we would never like be black hat booth wise, that would be, actually, that would be very, very interesting.

    00:02:10.67

    Andrew

    Yeah. That shit is expensive, right?

    00:02:18.97

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    00:02:21.00

    Sean

    I don't think black hat would ever let us do that, now that I think of that.

    00:02:22.17

    Andrew

    Oh really?

    00:02:24.51

    Sean

    I mean, we're not a security vendor, so it'd be very weird to do it.

    00:02:26.65

    Andrew

    Hmm.

    00:02:29.87

    Sean

    I don't know, it'd be weird. i like That's not that's not like a terrible idea. actually it'd be very interesting i wonder if there's something we could do there but anyway we like uh uh i didn't get to wander it which means i didn't get to like i think i think one of the things i missed out on and what's kind of sad about it is i didn't get to get them i didn't get to go pick up merchandise that we made for our clients that they printed and that was probably the biggest thing i was bummed out about

    00:02:51.17

    Andrew

    Hmm.

    00:02:56.29

    Sean

    Uh, but the innovator summit was super cool.

    00:02:56.53

    Andrew

    That's a bummer.

    00:02:59.57

    Sean

    Uh, shout out to Mike Privet and Ross. Uh, you know, they were, they were both on a panel together. That was super good.

    00:03:04.65

    Andrew

    Cool.

    00:03:06.02

    Sean

    Um, um, and that was fun. Def Con was Oh, so very fun. A lot of good pictures. We ah including me brought six people out this year.

    00:03:15.41

    Andrew

    Tick.

    00:03:19.17

    Sean

    um More like extended team members rather than like team core team members. It's been kind of like extended team members slash friends basically coming to help.

    00:03:30.92

    Sean

    It's just a lot cheaper than flying out our design staff um from from a like

    00:03:37.44

    Andrew

    Oh, because so that design staff can keep like doing design work for clients.

    00:03:41.34

    Sean

    doing yeah yeah um yeah exactly um which is like i don't know it's something i like it's something it's been always the biggest issue of this like agency plus merchandise model right they're two separate businesses so flying out on...

  • How much inbound is TOO much inbound?

    How much inbound is TOO much inbound?

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Sean is exhausted because he has so many inbound emails from prospective clients he doesn't have time to answer them all. Meanwhile, Andrew is trying to buckle down and get Stripe built into ChartJuice so he can start advertising and collecting payments. Sean and Andrew talk about how the consulting project is going, and Sean has to rain Andrew in as he contemplates repositioning ChartJuice again. As a bonus, find out how fast Andrew can run a mile and why he needs to run faster.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.90

    Andrew

    What's up, friend?

    00:00.81

    Sean

    Not so much. How are you?

    00:04.17

    Andrew

    Good, we haven't talked other than Slack in like two weeks.

    00:07.87

    Sean

    Yeah. You've been traveling.

    00:11.38

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    00:11.84

    Sean

    How have your trips been multiple?

    00:14.99

    Andrew

    um Montana is fucking beautiful. Oh my god. um Glacier in particular is stunning. Was there for a friend's wedding. um And then I think right before that, my sister was in town visiting. Have we talked since then? I can't remember.

    00:34.15

    Sean

    we talked i think i think the last time we talked was the day you i think you went to pick up your sister from the airport or yeah something like that yeah yes

    00:42.08

    Andrew

    Okay. Cool. Cool. Yeah. So, okay. Great. Time makes no sense, but that was the week before. And then there was a week. I think. I don't know. Anyway, my sister came to visit. That was a blast. It was great to see her. Got to meet her new boyfriend. So that was fun. And then went to Glacier for one of my best friend's weddings. His name is Alex. His now wife's name is also Alex. So that was very entertaining.

    01:15.17

    Andrew

    um We love her. We've known her for a long time. It's kind of the novelty is kind of worn off, to be honest, but but she is taking his name.

    01:21.51

    Sean

    Got it.

    01:24.95

    Andrew

    So they are going to be Alex Drake and Alex Drake, which is like absurd. Um, but we did a lot of hiking, did some white water rafting. Um, I saw, uh, mountain goats and big horn sheep. Um, and yeah, Glacier is just absolutely stunning. I, it reminded me that like, there's so much of this country that I have not seen that I want to see. Um, so I think next year I might. Maddie and I might make it a point to do like some sort of national park road trip or something, but we'll see.

    02:04.04

    Sean

    nice um i've always dreamed of just going and like driving to go cross-country trip in either like an rv or just with multiple motels and just driving around and staying like a like 52 weeks in 50 52 weeks in 52 states something like that and then you're right sorry it's been a long it's been a long since you've been gone it's been a war zone here

    02:18.26

    Andrew

    There are 50 states, but

    02:31.01

    Andrew

    Oh no, what's happening? Why are you so tired?

    02:36.01

    Sean

    um i count california as two states just for the record and porta rico just just before but i'm not yeah i am not smarter than a fifth grader for what it's worth so um anyway uh i don't know just like you

    02:43.80

    Andrew

    Puerto Rico should be a state, but yeah.

    02:55.44

    Sean

    and You know that thing where they're like, you'll know when you have product market fixed or bang on your door. It's like, have feeling like you have service market fit and people are banging on my door and we say yes to things. and We say no to some things, but like whenever, you know, just, we have a lot of clients and I don't have, we have.

    03:12.22

    Andrew

    I understand.

    03:17.00

    Sean

    Barely amount the amount of people to get all of it done with all the things that are going on.

    03:20.77

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    03:23.63

    Sean

    um um

    03:26.14

    Andrew

    So you're in, you're fully in one of the agency peaks where there's just like too much work and you're happy that there's too much work.

    03:34.68

    Sean

    Yeah.

    03:36.60

    Andrew

    So you're finally not stressed about like paying the bills and making ends meet, but instead that's replaced with doing the work and making sure the work is done to a high standard because, you know, when there's lots of work to go around, it's easy for things to slip through the cracks and yeah.

    03:42.32

    Sean

    Right.

    03:49.41

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah.

    03:52.74

    Sean

    Yeah. But there's more money in our bank account than ever.

    03:54.51

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    03:56.04

    Sean

    So, you know, that's, that's really cool.

    03:59.49

    Andrew

    Yeah, it really is.

    03:59.93

    Sean

    Um, yeah.

    04:00.84

    Andrew

    This is the thing about agencies is it does feel like you're always trading one type of stress for another. It's either you're like, fuck, I need to find clients. Or it's like, fuck, I need to get this work done for clients. um

    04:13.50

    Sean

    Yeah. I do really think like,

    04:18.39

    Sean

    Like I think I think creative agencies also like creative service providers are also an extra level of like because it's objectives right it's not like I have a friend who runs an MSP or an it's MSP sort of shop, but it's very like those that sort of work is very like oh you get the green checkmark because because the scanner no longer detects an issue so you're good, it's good to go.

    04:41.89

    Andrew

    Yeah, the flip side is like people don't usually call us in the middle of the night because they're like design got hacked into.

    04:41.82

    Sean

    you can like

    04:48.71

    Sean

    You're right. You're right. You're right.

    04:50.45

    Andrew

    So that's, that's like, Oh yeah, that's.

    04:50.52

    Sean

    We do manage websites. We do. Weflo did go down the other day, and that was my nice slide blew the fuck up.

    04:54.91

    Andrew

    hu

  • It's so tempting to become a content goblin

    It's so tempting to become a content goblin

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Season 2: Episode 5

    In this episode Sean talks about being buried in client work at Miscreants and how to design trendy clothing that gets people hyped. Meanwhile, Andrew talks about making slow progress on ChartJuice and trying to fight the temptation to become an SEO content goblin.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:02.21

    Sean

    So where are you up to? You're late.

    00:04.34

    Andrew

    Uh, I was, I'm so behind on writing my newsletter for this month. Um,

    00:11.16

    Sean

    Because you're not using AI to help you anymore.

    00:14.65

    Andrew

    Dick.

    00:15.61

    Sean

    Sorry, sorry.

    00:16.52

    Andrew

    Um, yeah, I just like, honestly I've been busy with, uh, with consulting work for somebody. I think that's, that's what I'm going to blame it on.

    00:26.47

    Sean

    i it is his fault i would blame it on him as well he's made a lot of poor decisions recently we player

    00:34.31

    Andrew

    Yeah, I've been busy with consulting work and then we were like, um we were up north for ah the fourth for a week. um And so there was like a day where I thought about trying to write it there. We had kind of a rainy day and I was like, I'm just going to fuck around on my phone and read a book instead.

    00:49.38

    Sean

    I, it is his fault.

    00:53.84

    Andrew

    um Which was a choice I don't really regret, but now I'm like,

    00:55.16

    Sean

    I would blame it on him as well. He's made a lot of poor decisions recently.

    00:59.72

    Andrew

    uh like two weeks behind getting a newsletter out so trying to trying to get a piece written about how I validated church use and like just how I got to the point where I was willing to make the investment in the initial MVP because when I say validated I don't know if the product is going to work yet we're a ways off from that but

    01:07.48

    Sean

    Cool.

    01:24.03

    Andrew

    validated it enough to have confidence building an MVP.

    01:27.50

    Sean

    Cool.

    01:27.60

    Andrew

    So writing an essay about that and then ah need to put together like the newsletter portion with some links and stuff. But yeah, completely lost track of time. I did the thing I do where I like procrastinated for 30 minutes and then started writing again 30 minutes before our podcast and then looked up and it was like four twelve and we were supposed to start at four o'clock. So

    01:50.67

    Sean

    I do find that like that level of like crunch time is what really snaps me into flow real quick.

    01:55.08

    Andrew

    Oh, absolutely.

    01:56.39

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad we could do that for you.

    02:01.80

    Andrew

    Honestly, like, that's part of why we wanted to start the podcast again, right?

    02:05.41

    Sean

    For sure.

    02:05.71

    Andrew

    Or at least for me, I i needed, like, I need some social forcing functions to make me do shit.

    02:07.01

    Sean

    Yeah.

    02:13.01

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah.

    02:14.19

    Andrew

    If I have to give you an update every week, then I have to have an update every week.

    02:14.27

    Sean

    hundred

    02:20.36

    Sean

    Yeah. I mean, like you tweeted out something about us writing and I was like, fuck. And I started writing. I haven't done it last week, but ah since like, since you tweeted about it, but it at least like made me attempt to put words to the paper for a couple of days. So that was pretty cool.

    02:38.93

    Andrew

    Nice. Yeah, we got to actually we got to decide on an actual an actual bet or something. But I don't want to do that right the second because I have too many other things I'm trying to do right this second.

    02:46.30

    Sean

    Yeah.

    02:52.07

    Sean

    For sure.

    02:52.29

    Andrew

    I'm like, I don't want to take on a writing bet.

    02:54.63

    Sean

    ah sure

    02:55.72

    Andrew

    Maybe maybe in a ah month or two.

    02:59.59

    Sean

    um How's your trip by the way, you went through a cabin.

    03:03.82

    Andrew

    Yeah, Trip was great. um My girlfriend's aunt and uncle have this amazing place on Drummond Island, which is this cool island off the tip of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. If anyone listening has never been to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which you probably haven't because most people haven't, it's like one of the most beautiful parts of the entire country. like i didn't really hear about it until I came here and moved to Detroit. And now it's one of my favorite places in the world. It's so fucking beautiful. The Great Lakes are like

    03:38.57

    Andrew

    turquoise blue. theres The trees feel like you're in the Pacific Northwest, um but the weather is way better than the Pacific Northwest. It's chilly enough in the middle of July that you need like a sweatshirt and jeans at night, um but it's warm enough to swim during the day.

    03:53.37

    Sean

    whoa

    03:57.01

    Andrew

    It's it's a magical place.

    03:57.65

    Sean

    Whoa.

    03:59.70

    Andrew

    um And I felt like a ah true digital nomad because I had I felt like I had perfected my my um transportable work setup. I had my laptop. my iPad, which they have made iPad mirroring so good and so easy now.

    04:17.24

    Sean

    Yeah.

    04:18.21

    Andrew

    I haven't used it in years, but it's like it's great now.

    04:18.30

    Sean

    Yeah.

    04:21.49

    Andrew

    And then I was using Starlink at Maddie's aunt and uncle's place. And the so the Wi-Fi was great. And I was just like, holy shit, with like that new Starlink Mini, you could have an amazing multi-screen set up that you could put in a backpack and it would be light as hell.

    04:42.70

    Sean

    I thought a lot about what you said about the Starlink this weekend, by th...

  • Sean's new mobile app, marketing ChartJuice, and working together on a client project

    Sean's new mobile app, marketing ChartJuice, and working together on a client project

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Season 2: Episode 4

    Did you know AI really loves the word delve? Sean and Andrew can't help starting the pod off with a little more AI talk. Then they get into Sean's new product he's working on. Meanwhile Andrew is putting aside his IDE and starting to shift his focus to marketing and selling ChartJuice. He talks about using Flow.club to focus and setting a goal of doing two hours of deep work every day. Sean asks Andrew if he would sell ChartJuice if someone made him an offer tomorrow. And Sean and Andrew talk about working together on a new client project!

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.77

    Sean

    What's up? What's up? How you doing?

    00:03.03

    Andrew

    Not bad. What happened to our theme music? I thought you were supposed to be coming in every week with a new theme song.

    00:09.35

    Sean

    So, you know, it's actually a little bit harder to use. than i Yeah.

    00:14.64

    Andrew

    Isn't this the classic story of all of these AI tools is it's like, it seems great at first glance. And then you start trying to really use it for something and you start going, oh, this is so much work to get out of this, what I want to get out of it.

    00:28.82

    Sean

    Yeah, 100%. I think like it doesn't have it doesn't have the levers I would want. you know I can't like dial a voice. I can't like switch. I have to use a prompt to change. like Do I want a male singer or a female singer? Do I want it to be you know louder here? I can't i can't say like I want to be louder here or different here. I feel like that.

    00:49.46

    Andrew

    You need a cringe dial. Let me crank the cringe all the way down to zero.

    00:51.24

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah, i don't think i don't the thing is AI doesn't know what that is, which is crazy.

    00:55.60

    Andrew

    AI doesn't understand cringe. AI is by default cringe. That's that's why we still have jobs.

    00:58.85

    Sean

    You know?

    01:01.89

    Sean

    um I've been looking at some other AI things and God.

    01:07.62

    Sean

    which AI really likes the word Delve. Did you know that?

    01:10.59

    Andrew

    Oh, interesting. I have not noticed that.

    01:11.63

    Sean

    Yeah. I think Paul Graham had a tweet or something to say like that's like the one of the biggest indicators that someone's seeing AI and they never saw it and then until I finally like um I was pulling a transcription out and then trying to get a summary just to see how any of that works and the amount of times it uses Delve is astounding and

    01:31.86

    Andrew

    That's fascinating.

    01:32.63

    Sean

    There's nothing I can't, i you know, once it's like a wrapper around whatever sort of AI tool, I can't tell it to, you know, at that point, I can't even change the prompt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um.

    01:42.85

    Andrew

    By the way, I really want to try out a couple of different transcription tools to see if any any of them can do a better job with our voices because Zincaster is not terrible, but it's a little bit of a mess.

    01:45.78

    Sean

    Hmm.

    01:57.05

    Sean

    Hmm.

    01:57.49

    Andrew

    I do think the, Post edit transcription is usually better.

    02:03.85

    Sean

    Mm-hmm.

    02:04.19

    Andrew

    like I see a pretty noticeable improvement from pre-edit and post-edit, so that's kind of interesting.

    02:06.81

    Sean

    Mm-hmm.

    02:09.69

    Andrew

    But I'm really curious, like what if Podscan actually has the best the best transcriptions?

    02:10.71

    Sean

    Maybe.

    02:14.46

    Sean

    maybe

    02:15.85

    Andrew

    Or yeah know maybe Transistor's new transcription tool will be better because that's all they're doing?

    02:16.09

    Sean

    Maybe.

    02:21.50

    Sean

    Yeah.

    02:25.24

    Andrew

    I don't know.

    02:25.29

    Sean

    Is there a job to be good at that?

    02:27.00

    Andrew

    Yeah, I guess it's Zincaster's job to get that right as much as Transistor's job. but um It might even be the same person powering both.

    02:31.87

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Um,

    02:37.63

    Andrew

    It might be the same tool under the hood.

    02:39.95

    Sean

    um

    02:40.45

    Andrew

    That would be funny.

    02:40.75

    Sean

    so, so this podcast, uh, for a client, I was running it through, I tried swell AI by, I don't remember his last name, Cody something, um. The draft horse, now he's doing swell, um and I tried to script again. um Interestingly, I don't know what's going on with swell, but like so far, that's the best transcript I got back. um Yeah, so that's pretty good. um Okay, no, no, no, no.

    03:08.87

    Andrew

    I also saw every, do you know them? ah Nathan used to be Bashaw and now I think it's Basquez. He was at Product Hunt and then at Gimlet and um then I think co-founded every with

    03:25.58

    Sean

    Cool.

    03:31.51

    Andrew

    Dan Schipler, if that, I might have that name right. It's kind of interesting. They were doing bundled newsletters. So taking different newsletter creators and creating a unified brand for them to publish under and then offering a bundled price where the creators split the revenue and they're now taking.

    03:43.65

    Sean

    Cool.

    03:47.29

    Sean

    cool

    03:52.41

    Andrew

    that bundle concept to a new extreme and launching software products. And the only way to pay for their software products is by buying a bundle, a subscription to every. So for one price, you get access to all of their newsletters and their software products. And their first one was Lex, an AI powered document editor where you could

    04:18.67

    Sean

    Okay. You use that, yeah.

    04:22.06

    Andrew

    I, yeah, I've used it a little bit. It's, it's pretty nifty. And then it se...

  • Andrew's dealing with bugs, and Sean is slammed with job applications

    Andrew's dealing with bugs, and Sean is slammed with job applications

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Season 2: Episode 3

    It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew is coming straight from a tattoo session, and talks about fighting bugs with ChartJuice. Meanwhile, Sean has gotten over 300 APPLICATIONS to his open job post, almost all from Dribbble. And he previews the consumer SaaS/community he's building on the side. Andrew and Sean discuss the strategy behind the new ConvertKit rebrand, and finally debate whether AI-generated book notes can be a good growth strategy for Andrew's personal blog.

    Differences between serverless functions and edge functions according to Claude:

    Execution Location: Serverless functions run on the cloud provider's servers centralized in large data centers, while edge functions run on edge servers distributed across multiple locations closer to the user.Latency: Edge functions have lower latency compared to serverless functions due to their proximity to the user.Scalability and resource constraints: Serverless functions scale automatically based on demand, while edge functions have a more limited scalability. Edge servers generally have less compute power and storage compared to cloud servers.Use Cases: Serverless functions are better suited for compute-intensive tasks, while edge functions are more efficient for data processing and content delivery near the user.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00:00.69

    Sean

    What's up?

    00:00:02.02

    Andrew

    Not much, just got back from a little tattoo session, got some fresh ink.

    00:00:06.48

    Sean

    Very cool. What did what you get?

    00:00:08.97

    Andrew

    Uh, got a piece of flash. So I was at a fundraiser for, um, a friend's, a friend was organizing the fundraiser. He's part of this group called prism, um, that raises money to support, uh, GSAs in schools, which used to stand for gay straight alliances.

    00:00:19.32

    Sean

    Cool.

    00:00:27.96

    Andrew

    Now I think stand for gender sexuality alliances.

    00:00:31.21

    Sean

    Okay.

    00:00:31.48

    Andrew

    Um, so he's part of this group prism. They were doing a fundraiser and they had a raffle as part of the fundraiser.

    00:00:38.18

    Sean

    Hmm.

    00:00:38.43

    Andrew

    And they were raffling off three flash tattoos. Um, so it was like a design and you could put. ticket in, and if you won, you would get that tattoo. And um I like two of them. And so I put a ticket in each one and was like, well, let fate decide. And I got picked. And so I went and got this cool vase with, it's like kind of an abstract vase with monstera leaves sticking out.

    00:01:04.13

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:01:06.90

    Andrew

    And it's my first leg tattoo, got it on my thigh. um it will be very visible when I wear shorts.

    00:01:14.20

    Sean

    Hell yeah.

    00:01:14.51

    Andrew

    um So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    00:01:15.18

    Sean

    Five inch the blue velvet shorts.

    00:01:18.18

    Andrew

    When I wear my short shorts, which is all I wear.

    00:01:19.60

    Sean

    Nice.

    00:01:20.58

    Andrew

    So, um yeah, I'm pretty into it.

    00:01:20.75

    Sean

    Nice.

    00:01:23.87

    Andrew

    It was cool. This was my first, I guess it was my second flash tattoo. um But the artist, she was great. Her name was Ali Gostella, I think. Super chill, super welcoming, had a great time, made the experience fantastic.

    00:01:40.32

    Sean

    Hmm.

    00:01:41.67

    Andrew

    And one of the cool parts was she really was stoked about this design, which was so much fun because she was having fun tattooing it and was really hyped and excited about it. And that made it more fun and made me more excited about getting it. And so it was just like just good energy.

    00:01:55.53

    Sean

    Nice.

    00:01:58.07

    Sean

    I like it. Congrats.

    00:01:59.08

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    00:01:59.96

    Sean

    Yeah, congrats on waiting.

    00:02:01.33

    Andrew

    Thanks. I'm I'm stoked. i'm I'm really excited about it.

    00:02:04.48

    Sean

    Cool.

    00:02:04.66

    Andrew

    I will show you after the podcast because it will not get podcast content.

    00:02:08.82

    Sean

    That's true. That's true. We are, we are not a video podcast yet. We tried, but yeah.

    00:02:13.67

    Andrew

    We can be. I guess whenever we just got to commit to doing another thing, which is not like us.

    00:02:18.46

    Sean

    Yeah.

    00:02:21.08

    Andrew

    Well, and is also like us. You know what I mean?

    00:02:23.70

    Sean

    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure.

    00:02:26.97

    Andrew

    Yeah. So what's up with you?

    00:02:29.04

    Sean

    Um, last week was brutal. Last week was a couple, a couple of our folks are out on like PTO and then some folks got sick.

    00:02:31.81

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    00:02:36.01

    Sean

    Um, uh, yeah. Uh, so I didn't sleep much and that was, that was exciting, but we're back to it.

    00:02:44.58

    Andrew

    Oh, that's rough.

    00:02:45.14

    Sean

    You know, I'm on eight hours, so extra energetic today. Um, I mean, Oh,

    00:02:52.52

    Andrew

    How is hiring going?

    00:02:55.23

    Sean

    dribble is not dead.

    00:02:56.62

    Andrew

    Oh, really?

    00:02:56.72

    Sean

    dribble not that hot take dribble like yeah yeah hiring our type form

    00:03:00.41

    Andrew

    For hiring designers specifically? Yeah.

    00:03:06.01

    Sean

    So we were going to do we're going to do like an online, we're going to put a form on our website at first and then I was like, I don't i ...

  • Double header: Expert beginners

    Double header: Expert beginners

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Season 2: Episode 2

    It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew talks about quietly pushing ChartJuice live, and raves about his new favorite podcast. Meanwhile Sean drops some knowledge about the intricacies of swag supply chains, and the guys discuss the trap of being an expert beginner vs a true expert. Finally, Sean talk about a leadership retreat he's going on soon.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:
    00:00.00

    Sean Sun

    Yeah, hey doing sorry late.

    00:00.64

    Andrew

    All good man I've just been over here sipping on my in Zony Happy as can be.

    00:06.41

    Sean Sun

    Ah, there you good there Good How's your week been. What's you been up to.

    00:13.49

    Andrew

    Um, not a bad week. Um, let's see I haven't been hella productive this week but I've been making steady progress. So um.

    00:29.64

    Andrew

    Think this happened after last week's pod. Um, so I sent out chart juice for feedback to a small group of friends you um, awesome price Greg um, handful of people and.

    00:49.48

    Andrew

    My friends are super generous and so a bunch of people took the time to create an account and give me some feedback and a lot of feedback I got was like hey this is cool. Um, you know Austin understandably spent a bunch time on the ux and was like hey you know you should left a line. Your text anytime you have more than a line or two because it becomes harder to read when it's center aligned and I was like dope didn't know that that's a really helpful rule of thumb. Thanks for telling me um and then like Greg um in very Greg fashion pointed out. Hey on the signup form you should really have a couple of statements about the value props and like what people are going to get out of this to help encourage them to finish the signup process which is very Greg always thinking from the perspective of the user and thinking about like how do we optimize this. Um, so that was super helpful. My friend Kevin who is one of the original partners in crit and a super talented engineer took a very engineer's approach to it and he was like hey just so you know if you put in a ah. Width of greater than a hundred thousand pixels it breaks and I was like cool I don't care and like he obviously knew I wouldn't care but you know took took a very engineer approach to it and.

    02:09.31

    Sean Sun

    Yeah, yeah.

    02:19.44

    Sean Sun

    Um, yeah.

    02:21.86

    Andrew

    Ah, like looked for the edge cases the weird extreme edge cases. The other one was like if you add more than 21 elements to a pie chart then the legend gets really wonky like create. Um, so.

    02:39.40

    Sean Sun

    I think that's a hold on I just want to point out I don't think I think that's a feature not a bug I think no one should be adding 21 elements to a pie chart like a pizza doesn't have 21 slices yeah um

    02:41.61

    Andrew

    Yeah.

    02:49.77

    Andrew

    I Love it? Yeah yeah, yeah, we we intentionally make your chart look like shit past a certain point because like why stop.

    02:56.87

    Sean Sun

    Right? right? Exactly There's a hidden feature that if you make it look like it'll all turn brown and.

    03:03.80

    Andrew

    I mean the good thing to do would be if you use more than 8 elements or something in your pie chart. We just automatically start combining the smallest ones that would be nifty but um, but my favorite piece of advice came from my friend ramy um, who is an indie hacker.

    03:13.12

    Sean Sun

    Um.

    03:21.69

    Andrew

    Um, based out of the Uk and repeat founder has a few successful small products under his belt and his advice was basically good enough ship it and I was like that's you're so fucking right? so.

    03:33.50

    Sean Sun

    Nice.

    03:41.60

    Andrew

    Um, yeah, the first half of this week was shipping it so chart juice is now technically live I'm calling it a soft launch because I haven't really talked about it being live much at all yet I'm not being super public about it. Um I just linked up.

    03:46.26

    Sean Sun

    Um, okay, um.

    04:00.70

    Andrew

    The buttons on the marketing website to the actual app so that you can get to the app from the marketing website and then I made some small updates yesterday to the marketing website adding screenshots and a little bit more information about how it how it works. To try to make it a little bit clear what the product does because I had several people like hit the marketing website and go so is this like chart Js for emails and I was like I mean kind of but it's like a layer above that. Um, so I added some some screenshots and like a little bit more information without. While trying not to change too much because I still want to test kind of that original marketing copy and see how well it works. Um, but yeah, so chart juice is now live I am spending the rest of this week focused on trying to get billing working. Um, so i.

    04:45.97

    Sean Sun

    Um, right.

    04:57.83

    Andrew

    If you go sign up for an account right now it is free until I get billing implemented um and once I get billing implemented I'll I'll find some way to grandfather in any existing accounts with like an extra long free trial Probably um.

    05:11.20

    Sean Sun

    Right? right? So Andrew's giving away lifetime access to anyone who signs up right now.

    05:16.66

    Andrew

    Andrew's giving away short to your mas if your life only you know continues for another three or four weeks then yeah lifetime access.

    05:25.31

    Sean Sun

    If you plan on dying soon. Sign up for George ah, that's the ad there you go is converting ad.

    05:31.90

    Andrew

    Ah, perfect ship it so working on getting billing um, integrated which I've just been dragging my feet a little bit. It's just boring. It's like it's standard. Ah. Stuff I Just got to hook up some webhooks and Yada Yada Um, and then the other thing I need to do that's kind of important is I need to actually test using our embed code in a transactional email which is like somewhat. Hard to do since I don't have an existing Saas product with existing data. Um, So yeah, I'll just I'll probably just fudge the data. But um I need to send out some test emails. Um, and then I want to record a demo video of like the entire end-to-end process.

    06:24.35

    Sean Sun

    Right...

  • We're so back

    We're so back

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    Andrew and Sean are back for Season 2! In Season 2 they'll get transparent about the highs and lows of building their businesses (with plenty of goofing around too). Same concept, new businesses.

    In this episode we recap WHERE THE HELL WE'VE BEEN FOR TWO YEARS. Plus we talk about the projects we're working on now, how to market and validate Andrew's new startup, and Sean's search for founder friends.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

    Transcript:

    00:00.73
    Sean
    All right? don't scream this time. Maybe I'll cut that front part out. Um, okay, take 4 episode 1 season 2 small efforts like no see oh yeah, me too.

    00:11.35
    Andrew
    Ah, but what's up man Glad to be back. Ah back on the pod with you.

    00:18.76
    Sean
    Too I'm excited to be doing this again. It's been a fun 6 ones of a dry run. Um, so ah.

    00:22.92
    Andrew
    It wouldn't be us if we didn't record for six months and then finally describe decide to scrap all of those recordings and just say fuck it. Let's go live or as close to live as we can get.

    00:32.53
    Sean
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's literally how I've built the michigans website every single iteration actually I spent months on it and then I'm like fuck. And I just do it in the black in my hotel room right? before blackhead starts in a day like yeah, good enough I don't care if it's not perfect. Um, what's been going on. Why have we disappeared what happened you know what happened to season 1 I'm sure everyone wants to know.

    01:02.54
    Andrew
    Ah, yeah, um, yeah, it's been 2 years almost to the day like pretty close to it. So um, we were running the podcast before and had set it up in a way to be like.

    01:05.75
    Sean
    Our 11 listeners.

    01:22.00
    Andrew
    Fairly highly highly produced and um in a way that required as little involvement from us after recording as possible so we had an awesome producer and an editing team who would take care of everything for us. Um, but that also meant it was. A little bit expensive to create um and then I went and sold my business and that meant that half of our funding disappeared. So I sold crit almost two years ago exactly um, sold the company to.

    01:47.45
    Sean
    Hell yeah, a girl. Yeah, he did.

    01:58.77
    Andrew
    Of our longtime clients grayyno which was an awesome experience. I still haven't really written about the experience of going through this sale process. It might be hard to do now I've I'm sure I've already forgotten a lot. Um, but it was it was a really. Really fascinating experience to go through I think our sale was really pretty easy and pretty fast compared to a lot of people because we already knew each other really well um, and structured it in a way that that due diligence was pretty simple. So um, yeah, sold crit two years ago

    02:23.90
    Sean
    A 5

    02:36.57
    Andrew
    Then went to work at graynoy for a year um so learned a ton in that time about security and technology and what it's like to be part of a larger team as hilarious as it is a 50 person team is like by far the biggest team I'd ever been a part of.

    02:53.75
    Sean
    Yeah.

    02:55.78
    Andrew
    Um, and ah learned about management and it was like a year of speed learning. Um, it was really interesting. Had a lot of fun. Um, and then ultimately got fired which was kind of. Ah, shock and kind of not a shock. Um, ultimately I think it just wasn't as good a fit on either side as either of us were were hoping for um, still have a ton of friends there and still am rooting for them all to be successful. Um, you know it's funny I've mentioned that I got fired to. Entrepreneur friends and to like non-onpreneur friends and non-onreneur friends are generally like oh my god are you? okay like what's ah, what's wrong. What can I do to help and then all my entrepreneur friends are like yeah I kind of expected that we're just ah.

    03:46.18
    Sean
    Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.

    03:52.10
    Andrew
    I Guess once you're like an entrepreneur through in through you kind of become unhireable but not in the way you thought just unhireable in the sense that like you become a bad employee or don't want to don't want to work for anyone? Um, so um.

    03:56.64
    Sean
    Um, yeah, yeah.

    04:00.33
    Sean
    Yeah, yeah.

    04:10.71
    Andrew
    Yeah, shocking and not a shock. Um, but ultimately like 2 really good things came out of bad experience which were um one when I was at crit my fear. The thing that kept me up at night. Was often this idea of like what if our clients all disappear and we run out of money and we have to lay off the entire team that was like the failure mode that that was constantly eating away at me constantly like this pit of stress in the middle of my stomach. Um, and then once I sold the company and joined grey noise. Thought that fear would go away. It didn't it just morphed and the new fear. The new failure mode was what if I get fired. Um, and so when I ultimately did it was this kind of positive forcing function to face this deep fear of failure that I had. Um, and you know went through it and was like oh shit I'm okay and the people around me don't actually think any worse of me. In fact, they all are being super supportive and kind and like are very understanding and and then I had time to make a podcast to get.

    05:20.70
    Sean
    So yeah, and then you had time to do a podcast again. So it's been great.

    05:28.17
    Andrew
    Um, and and that actually was the second positive thing. So the the second really positive thing was that it gave me the nudge to take a long extended sabbatical. Um, so after that I went and fulfilled a lifelong dream and walked across Spain on the camino de santiago. Um. Spent two months over in Europe um, that was incredible I've written about that on my on my website a little bithitteraskins dot com um, and then I I came back from that and had time to sit down and just think about what I really wanted to do and um. Decided that I wanted to get back into startups and wanted to try to build a new product and do do it the way that I had always wanted to do it which was bootstrapped calm slow growth. Um, and ah, you know, but do something that. You know, high margin. Um, try to basically build my perfect job. My dream job my my dream business. Um, so I started working on ad at the beginning of this year worked with a partner for a little while who um, ultimately had to step away for some personal reasons. Um. Which then launched me into the process of learning to code again which has been really cool. Um, kind of surprised myself with how much I have enjoyed that and liked that. Um and so that was a few months ago that I I started learning to code and and building the product.

    07:05.74
    Andrew
    Myself and I'm now ah at a point where I've got a functional prototype and I'm you know probably going to be launching in a week or 2 probably 2 two weeks would be my guess. So um, yeah.

    07:19.46
    Sean
    I Hell yeah.

    07:24.27
    Andrew
    Last time we recorded I was running an agency and now I am getting ready to launch a new Saas company. So yeah, and so now that's ah now we're on season 2 Um, so yeah, tell me tell me ah tell me and tell our 3 listeners.

    07:29.51
    Sean
    Yeah, act...

  • How to voice and tone

    How to voice and tone

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    (0:24) This is officially a rock climbing podcast

    (8:15) Andrew and Sean's gardens have attracted guests

    (12:59) Sean lowkey needs another break

    (25:10) Miscreants is doing a collection drop at DEFCON

    (29:56) Rebranding is like creating a religion but without Kool-Aid

    Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

  • Scoring Sean's Twitter account

    Scoring Sean's Twitter account

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    (0:27) There’s a parallel universe where Andrew’s life revolves around photography

    (8:34) Sean is suspicious as hell

    (17:31) The real reason why so many CEOs are super fucking into meditation

    (26:31) Andrew and Sean’s bi-weekly book club chat

    (34:29) Your lawyer career doesn’t mean shit if you can’t work on your streetwear brand

    Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Sublime Security: https://sublimesecurity.com/ Email Rep IO: https://emailrep.io/ Ted at Sentinel IPS: @tedgruenloh Margins by Ranjan Roy and Can Duruk: https://www.readmargins.com/ Leave Me Alone: https://leavemealone.app/ SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/ Melissa Perri’s book: Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value Bionic reading: https://bionic-reading.com/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

  • DC BAYBEE!

    DC BAYBEE!

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    (0:25) The difference between Andrew and Sean is that Sean is extra delusional

    (6:27) Sales feels like throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks

    (17:23) Either the channels depend on the day, or different channels work during different times

    (24:32) Giving constraints encourages creativity, not stifles it

    (34:21) Andrew and Sean are both traveling and bad at bowling

    Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

  • People and processes

    People and processes

    · Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

    (0:22) Getting experience is all about putting in the reps

    (9:09) It’s easy judging a designer by their portfolio. A PM by their resume? Not so much.

    (18:58) It’s mad hard building a leadership team

    (27:12) Commission vs. Salary: We’re undecided on which one’s better

    (37:03) If Krit didn’t exist, Andrew would definitely have an SEO marketing agency

    Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.

    Links:

    Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Pyramid of Success: http://www.coachwooden.com/pyramid-of-success Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837 Entreprenurial Operation System: https://www.eosworldwide.com/ Luke Stephens: @hakluke HackerContent: https://hackercontent.com/

    For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

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