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My guest this week is Anne-Marie Rabago, the founder and principal of Modern Juris, which provides tools, training, and support to help lawyers build financially sustainable businesses designed to serve the latent legal market. Anne-Marie started her legal career at Pricewaterhousecoopers, then launched a solo tax law practice before transitioning into law school and non-profit legal incubator programming.
I wanted to have Anne-Marie on because I, admittedly, wasnât familiar with legal incubators when she first mentioned it to me and I thought it was a great resource to share with all of you.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Anne-Marieâs personal journey from traditional practice to a solo tax law practice to mentoring & coaching
- Legal incubators and how they might help you
- Strategies to start and scale solo law firms
- The potential in the untapped legal market
- The rewards and hurdles of unconventional legal practice
- The power of intentional decision-making for your career trajectory
- Navigating career changes so you donât let yourself get stuck
Connect with Megan!
2024 Focus Session: https://megansmiley.com/2024-focus-session
Sign-Up for the Newsletter: https://dogged-painter-2837.ck.page/f4e1721839
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Connect with Anne-Marie!
Website: https://www.modernjuris.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annemarierabago/
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My guest today is Kate Bridal, a former lawyer turned legal tech marketer turned co-host of The Legal Burnouts podcast.
We explore her professional journey, from drama school to working with primates (yes, seriously - she got to sign with chimps), to law and beyond.
Kate shares with us how she's navigated the pressures of the legal profession, her adventures in legal tech marketing, and the ongoing career transition sheâs navigating.
Itâs an open and honest conversation that highlights that the road is rarely linear, and getting comfortable with change and uncertainty is the name of the game.
In this episode, we discuss:
Kate's unorthodox leap from primate studies to law. Kateâs path through various legal jobs, compassion fatigue, and burnout.Challenging the norms and status quo of the legal industry. The crisis of identity that can come with career evolution.The tension between personal ambition and family and financial realities.Kate's success in landing and acclimatizing to a legal tech marketing role through humor and honesty.Tips on networking and seeking career advice, even if reaching out feels out of your comfort zone.Learning to trust your gut over outside opinions. Kate's current thoughts around starting her own business and doing contracting work.The importance of taking conscious breaks and finding hobbies that reinvigorate you.The liberating yet anxiety-ridden process of forging a path without a clear career roadmap.Insider baseball discussion of keeping up with our podcastsConnect with Megan!
Sign-Up for the Newsletter: https://dogged-painter-2837.ck.page/f4e1721839
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Kate!
Legal Burnouts Website: https://www.thelegalburnouts.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-bridal/
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Fehlende Folgen?
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Our guest today is Sejal Thakkar, a former employment law attorney, a 2X TEDx speaker, and the Founder and Chief Civility Officer at TrainXtra, a woman/minority- owned training consulting firm, where she helps leaders create positive, safe, and respectful workplaces through customized training and coaching.
In this episode, we discuss:
Sejal realizing that litigation was a bad fit; she wanted to build workplace culture, not clean up messesFollowing your interests to build skills and open doorsLeveraging your legal background in a business Leaning into a growth mindset to move through imposter syndrome Balancing purpose-driven work, family and finances Navigating a non-linear path from employment to entrepreneurshipRelying on your resourcefulness and self-trust rather than avoiding all risksThe importance of networking and planting seeds for your long-term career growthConnect with Megan!
Sign-Up for the Newsletter: https://dogged-painter-2837.ck.page/f4e1721839
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Sejal!
Website: http://www.trainxtra.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sejalthakkar/
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April Roberts is a former attorney turned financial advisor who now coaches Gen X women to achieve more abundance, love, spirituality and alignment by connecting with their femininity.
She also hosts the podcast Vixen Voice where she shares stories of Gen X women that have shed the traditional definition of success to pursue their lifeâs true passion.
April shares with us all of the twists, turns, and lessons she learned in her personal and professional journey.
Key Takeaways from April's Journey:
(1) Being open and flexible: Be open to your career path taking different turns, for both personal and professional reasons. As a person, you become more self-aware and you evolve. And life happens. So, be flexible and resourceful and continue to check in with what is right for you in each season.
(2) Overcoming setbacks and embracing growth: April opens up about her divorce and the challenges she faced during that time. Through self-reflection and connecting with other female entrepreneurs, she learned to embrace failure and rebuild an abundance mentality. Sometimes, the most difficult moments can inspire us to grow and find new paths to success.
(3) Balancing your feminine and masculine energies: April highlights the importance of understanding and embracing both feminine and masculine energies in work and life. It isnât about gender, but instead about archetypal energy - like yin and yang. She invites us to balance the logical, action-oriented side of ourselves with our more intuitive, flowing intelligence.
In this episode, we discuss:
The influence of parents on Aprilâs career choiceThe pros and cons of being a young lawyer Aprilâs realization that the substance of work and lifestyle were not aligned with her valuesLeaving law practice and the country with Aprilâs Italian husbandReturning from abroad and to practiceNavigating a career amidst personal upheaval Recognizing your unique superpowers Managing fear and embracing abundance Aprilâs transition to financial advisorBalancing masculine and feminine energiesConnect with Megan!
Sign-Up for the Newsletter: https://dogged-painter-2837.ck.page/f4e1721839
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with April!
Website: https://www.vixengathering.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprilrroberts/
Vixen Voice Podcast: https://www.vixengathering.com/podcast
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Todayâs guest is Laura Terrell, an executive coach with over twenty-five years of experience as a legal and business leader.
Prior to coaching, she was a Special Assistant to the President at the White House, a senior level appointee at the U.S. Department of Justice, an equity partner in two large, global law firms, and in-house counsel at a publicly traded company.
In this episode, we discuss:
How to be brave in your career movesThat taking a risk to do something different teaches you that thereâs not one ârightâ pathLauraâs moves between private and public sector work Lauraâs advice on moving into government How Laura enjoys the business side of practice and sees that itâs an area lawyers need support navigating Understanding what the long game at big firm actually looks like How to make informed decisions and not be an ostrich with your head in the sandConnect with Megan!
Sign-Up for the Newsletter: https://dogged-painter-2837.ck.page/f4e1721839
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Laura!
Website: https://www.lauraterrell.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauralterrell
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Emily Witt is a legal recruiter with almost twenty years of industry experience (on both the firm side at one of the world's preeminent law firms and also on the agency side). She tells us about her own career evolution, as well as how she helps lawyers find their next best job.
We talk about the importance of keeping your personal true north in mind as you pivot. For Emily, that has meant centering freedom, flexibility and her interest in health & wellness in each stage of her career.
She also reminds us that you donât have to make one huge jump and stay there forever. Think about taking steps closer and closer to what you really want to do and/or finding jobs that give you space to explore different possibilities on the side.
Finally, she gives us an insider view into the pluses and minuses of being a legal recruiter, for anyone who might be thinking about that as a possible career move.
Connect with Megan!
Sign-Up for the Newsletter: https://dogged-painter-2837.ck.page/f4e1721839
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Emily!
Website: https://www.whistlerpartners.com/team/emily-witt
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilywittslegalpath/
Podcast: https://beyondthelegallens.libsyn.com/
The Advocateâs Mic: www.advocatesmic.com
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Today Iâm talking about how success is an entirely personal thing.
It looks different for each of us. Yet, our society (and our industry) tend to have a pretty narrow and uniform definition.
That's how so many of us get stuck climbing one particular type of success ladder.
I encourage you to give yourself permission to personalize your definition of success. And in this episode, Iâm giving you some tips on how to start doing that.
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Connect with Megan!
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megansmileyesq/
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This weekâs guest is Leah Campbell Badertscher. She is a former lawyer who has become an artist and a coach to world-class performers and leaders in the arts, business, and social good.
Her work is about fulfilling her clientâs greatest potential by cultivating a way of being that energizes, strengthens, and enlivens every aspect of their life, including their mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health and well-being, relationships, finances, life experiences, creativity, and the desire for meaningful work.
We discuss Leahâs journey to embracing the calling of her creative side. She tells us about balancing her pragmatism with her more âirrationalâ lifeâs work, and how following the breadcrumbs of her inspiration has led to her running a multi-dimensional business that she finds incredibly fulfilling.
In this episode, we discuss:
How intentional reflection on different roles helped Leah discern what she did and didnât enjoy doingLeah realized how essential creativity is to her happiness A lot of us have a creative energy thatâs calling us to be expressed, and not just in traditional artistic waysThe fear of owning a creative and spiritual side in a world of lawyersLeah didnât feel like fitting her creative side into small pockets on the side was enoughBalancing pragmatism with taking a more creative/entrepreneurial pathLeaning into what lit her up brought her back to life and seeing possibilities Itâs ok to protect your dream and keep it to yourself for a whileThe importance of expanding your circle of influence to include more creative/alternative thinkersLeahâs creative work has evolved into The Art School, a holistic container for creativityConnect with Megan!
Inner Wisdom Workshop: https://chiarawoods.com/inner-wisdom-workshop
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Leah!
Website: https://www.leahcb.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leahcb1/The Art School Podcast: https://www.leahcb.com/category/podcast/
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This week's episode is a little different. I teamed up with Chiara Woods (another former lawyer) for an episode that is airing on both this podcast and on hers, The Soulicitor Podcast.
We tackle the question of how lawyers and other left-brainers can engage with the world of woo.
Those of us in this category are grounded and practical people. We think critically, and arenât off the deep end woo-wooâŠ
But weâre curious. Weâre open to thinking about the world and ourselves in new ways.
Many of our friends and clients seem intrigued by some of these modalities.
So - we decided to both have this conversation and create a workshop series.
A kind of primer for the woo-curious.
The workshop will be an education on the tenets of these modalities, and a discussion of how you might leverage them for your personal and professional growth.
Weâre talking intuition & meditation, astrology, human design, hypnotherapy, and mediumship.
We start on May 31!
Inner Wisdom Workshop: https://chiarawoods.com/inner-wisdom-workshop
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Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Chiara!
Chiara's Website: hhttps://chiarawoods.com/
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Dorna Moini is the CEO and founder of Gavel (formerly Documate), an easy-to-use platform for building client-facing legal apps. Prior to starting the company, Dorna was a litigator at Sidley Austin. There, in her pro bono practice, she worked with legal aid organizations to build a web application for domestic violence survivors to complete and file their paperwork, which led to the idea for Documate - to enable other attorneys to do the same in any area of law.
Dorna is on the Legal Services Corporation Emerging Leaders Council and a member of LAFLA's Advisory Board. She was named an ABA Legal Rebel and is on the Fastcase 50 list.
In this conversation, we discussed:
Dornaâs initial interest in the law was human rights issuesShe ended up in BigLaw and actually enjoyed it!Dorna did a lot of pro bono work with domestic violence victims, which prompted her to develop a platform to make legal services more accessible to them; and that evolved to DocumateGetting to the point where she couldnât run the business and work at the law full-timeHer firm offered for her to go part-time, but she decided she wanted to focus completely on her businessDorna felt comfortable taking a leap knowing she could always go back to practiceShe experienced a huge learning curve, but found it easy to self-educate with all the resources available Getting comfortable with what other people think of you making the jump from law to entrepreneurship The fear of regret was larger than the fear of failureThe importance of building a team that deeply believes in the core missionYou donât need to go to business school to start a successful businessWorking hard feels different when your heart is fully in itConnect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Dorna!
Gavelâs Website: https://www.gavel.io/
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The truth is that building a business you care about does take time, and there's no way to have a clean, complete map of the process in advance that guarantees success.
And in this episode, I argue that it's still worth.
It has a lot to do with the fact that a heart-centered business is more than a job, it's a life project. And when you look at it like that, the journey is more than worth the cost.
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The Sick of Being Stuck Workshop Series (Starts October 12): https://megansmiley.com/sick-of-being-stuck-workshop
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I am so excited to have Janelle Christian as my guest this week. Janelle tells us about her attempts to find her place within different law firm settings, and her ultimate realization that the law was just not for her. She initially launched an interior design firm, which led to people asking her how she started her business, which has ultimately led to her running a hugely successful business and branding strategy company.
There are so many nuggets of wisdom in this episode for anyone thinking about taking a leap into entrepreneurship.
Specifically, we discuss:
How the pandemic brought up some existential questions about how Janelle was spending her lifeTrusting in your ability to figure things out and be resilient Immersing yourself with people doing what you want to doHow Janelle publicly shared what she was doing, which helped get her business off the ground and grow organicallyGetting coaching support will help catapult you to the next levelJanelleâs true north is the lifestyle she wants, not a particular business modelHealth insurance does not need to be a deal breakerConnect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Janelle!
Janelleâs Website: https://janellenicole.co/
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The truth is, the answer to what coaching looks like and who itâs for is much like the answer to most legal questions: it depends.
It does. It depends on the coach, their approach, the intended outcome, the timeline, etc.
And I know how confusing and unhelpful that can sound. In a world where youâre already lacking clarity and feeling overwhelmed, Iâm hoping to help bring some transparency to it - at least with respect to how I work.
So, in an attempt to demystify what it looks like in this episode I discuss:
What coaching is versus consulting, and how my work is a mixWhat kinds of goals and challenges my coaching is tailored to How to know if youâre a good fit for coachingHow to identify if coaching isnât for you, at least yet (just as important!)When it is time to explore coaching supportThe right energy and mindset to approach coaching with~
Connect with Megan!
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Melanie Lippman, a style and image coach, and I co-hosted a webinar last month called Age & Authenticity: Work, Life & Style After 40. It was such a good conversation, I wanted to share it with all of you on the podcast.
In this conversation, we discuss:
How to embrace, rather than resist, your evolutionHow to connect with your personal values and desiresHow to explore and experiment without judgment How to let go of other peoples' expectations and all the "shoulds" that weigh on youHow itâs never too late to switch gears and honor your authentic selfMelanie sees this topic through the lens of personal style.
I see it with people who realize the practice of law (or traditional employment generally) isnât aligned with who they are and how they want to live their next chapter.
Itâs a really rich conversation that I know will resonate with so many of you.
Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Connect with Melanie!
Melanieâs Website: https://www.melanielippman.com/
Melanieâs Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/showupandbeseennow
Melanieâs Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melanielippman/
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There's just something about back-to-school energy. There's a sense of hope and possibility. And it's a great opportunity to refocus and recommit to the big career changes you've been wanting to make.
In this episode, I share some ideas for how you can set yourself up for success and make this the year you get off the carousel of doom in your current career, find clarity, and make progress on the path to your new life.
Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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This week I share my thoughts on how we can buck the system and define success on our own terms. I think the new paradigm of success is centered on you being self-actualized and of true service, rather than being the best rule follower out there.
I also shared some wise, if salty, words from my mom.
It would be her birthday today.
I recently came across a submission she made to her alumni magazine for her 25th reunion. Parts made me cry. Parts made me smile. And parts made me think I really would have enjoyed her. At 11, she was still just âmomâ - not a whole person with interesting world viewsâŠ
Anyway - here she is wrapping up her entry to the alumni magazine with a mic drop challenge to traditional success:
âI suppose that in conclusion, I should mention how essential my Wellesley experience was in shaping my life. Actually, I donât think it was. I went through the four years longing to be out, and Iâm sure I wasnât taking advantage of all the intellectual possibilities. But I have learned that there are a lot of smart, achieving people in the world who didnât go to Wellesley or anyplace like it and I get worn down by the self-congratulating, âarenât we all great, we went to Wellesleyâ attitude that comes through so oppressively in the pages of the alumna magazine.â
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Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Kristen Gyolai is the owner of The Law Office of Kristen Gyolai & Lure of Law. She started her career at a high-volume law firm. She enjoyed the practice of law but 5 years in, she was feeling burnt out and needed a change. After considering her options, she ultimately decided to start her own law firm. That has proven to be exactly the right fit for her. She is now also the founder of Lure of Law, where she helps show other attorneys how possible it is to start their own firm.
In this episode we discuss:
Kristen realized that traditional law practice wasnât the lifestyle she wanted to liveShe didnât hate practice, but hated the systemHow Kristen decided to start her own firmRunning the business and doing the legal work on her own didnât worry her, but the fear of not finding clients and failing weighed heavily on herShe decided she wanted this enough to fail tryingThere are some unknowns, but you can trust yourself to learn and figure things outKristen tells us how she found her first clientsThereâs a growing trend of starting solo practicesConnect with Kristen!
Kristen Gyolai Website: https://kristengyolai.com/
Lure of Law Website: https://lureoflaw.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lureoflaw/
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Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Lauren Kay is the host of the Legally Different Podcast, a Human Design expert, and a lawyer practicing on her terms. Lauren tells us about her journey of quitting the law in search of something more fulfilling. She identified freedom as her top value, and with that as a guiding principle, has been able to construct a portfolio career. She consults as a lawyer, which allows her to work the hours she wants from wherever she chooses. And she has been able to lean into her other interests, starting her podcast and Human Design business.
In this episode, we discuss:
That Lauren followed her intuition to quit and travelHow Lauren thought there was only one way to practice law, and it wasnât for herThe confusion of disconnecting from the label and identity of âlawyerâLaurenâs realization that freedom was her top value, and how that helped her create and follow aligned opportunities Finding legal work on a consulting basisHow Laurenâs personal growth journey led her to understand her interests and purpose moreHuman Design basicsConnect with Lauren!
Legally Different Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/legally-different/id1536355826
Book a Human Design Session: https://calendly.com/legallydifferent/human-design-foundational-1-hour?back=1&month=2022-06
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legallydifferent/
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Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Mary Adkins is a former BigLaw litigator turned writer. She is author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick, âBest Book of 2019â by Good Housekeeping and Real Simple), Privilege (Today.com âBest Summer Read,â New York Post âBest Book of the Weekâ), and Palm Beach (recently named one of the New York Postâs âBest Books of 2021â). Her books have been published in 13 countries, and her essays and reporting have appeared in the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. She is also a writing coach and founder of The Book Incubator, a 12-month program to write, revise, and pitch your novel or memoir.
In this episode, we discuss:
Getting into law to make a positive impact, but then taking a BigLaw jobFeeling misaligned with your work, and coming to not care about it at allPrioritizing taking writing classes even with a crazy scheduleTaking a bridge job to allow the time and space to pursue more writingRealizing that a lot of the roadblocks to making a change arenât as immovable as we tell ourselves they areHow to build a writing careerHow the Enneagram plays out for lawyers and writersConnect with Mary:
Website: https://maryadkinswriter.com/
Apply to The Book Incubator: https://www.thebookincubator.com/apply-novel-writing-program
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adkinsmary/
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Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Employee to Entrepreneur Quiz: https://bit.ly/employeetoentrepreneurtype
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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Erika Cole built a thriving, very specialized law practice advising churches and other faith-based organizations. After running her own firm, she merged her practice and became a partner at a larger firm. She enjoyed the work. And from the outside, all the boxes of success were checked. But, something in her told Erika that this chapter was complete. She was ready for a new challenge. And she was ready for an even greater degree of freedom and flexibility. Leveraging the specialization sheâd developed, sheâs now serving a similar audience as she had in practice, but from a new angle. She runs a conference, hosts the Church Law podcast, and has launched a 6-week course for burned-out pastors.
I had the pleasure of having Erika in a program I ran last summer, and seeing the leap sheâs made in less than a year is really inspiring. Not surprising to me (as youâll hear), but definitely inspiring.
For anyone questioning whether youâre too deep into practice to leave now, or if thereâs really time for a second act - this episode is for you.
Connect with Erika:
Website: https://www.erikacole.com/
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Connect with Megan!
Daydreams to Designs Private Podcast: https://bit.ly/daydreamstodesigns
Schedule a Catalyst Call: https://megansmiley.com/schedule-a-call
Website: https://www.megansmiley.com/
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